im well aware we've been on a collision course with iran. it was one of the chief reasons i opposed iraq. we dont have the resources now to handle iran. if we werent bogged down in iraq (a country which was NOT a serious threat to us) we might be able to do something about this. as it is, we're stuck with our thumbs up our asses.
Whether we want to admit it or not (and nobody seems to want to)...Iraq is the Iranian front right now in this war. period.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Whether we want to admit it or not (and nobody seems to want to)...Iraq is the Iranian front right now in this war. period.
no, i dont admit it. your view is not the only view my friend. i know you get a hard on for being an armchair general, but you're not in command. and the people in command now say we dont have the resources and iraq is a LONG way from being stable. it will be a decade at least before we're able to do jack shit about iran and furthermore, iraq was not necessary to stop iran. in fact, it's almost counter-productive. saddam hated iran. if we'd waited and stablized afghanistan, we'd still have an international coalition backing us and if iran was getting fresh like they are now, we'd have had that coalition at our backs to go in there and straighten them out. saddam would have been pissing himself out of fear of us and he'd have been eager to help or stay neutral... due to his dislike of iran and desperation to gain some sort of international credibility. instead, our coalition crumbled with ill will over our poor decisions in iraq and our military is tied down. THAT is why iran is not afraid to talk shit. they know we cant do a godamn thing about it. if we'd never have gone into iraq, we'd have the ayatollah or whatever-the-fuck his title is in jail right now
and I'm not convinced we don't have the resources to deal with Iran. we still have the full force of our air force and navy which is really all we need if we take the right approach. There was a great piece recently in Commentary magazine about how easy it would be for us to sieze Iran's offshore oil pumps using very few soldiers which would cripple their economy without putting our soldiers at great risk. we could even keep pumping the oil and selling it to the normal buyers and we could put the money in escrow for Iran, so that once they have a government that agrees to play by the rules they could claim the proceeds.
and I'm not convinced we don't have the resources to deal with Iran. we still have the full force of our air force and navy which is really all we need if we take the right approach. There was a great piece recently in Commentary magazine about how easy it would be for us to sieze Iran's offshore oil pumps using very few soldiers which would cripple their economy without putting our soldiers at great risk. we could even keep pumping the oil and selling it to the normal buyers and we could put the money in escrow for Iran, so that once they have a government that agrees to play by the rules they could claim the proceeds.
And what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I have to agree with soulsinging on this. Going into Iraq fucked us up for a long time. Not necessarily because of resources, but because no one would ever go for this right now. We would have no world support, the Dems definitely wouldn't go into Iran, and I have a feeling, that because of the low approval ratings, right now not even the Republicans would go in.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I mean it probably won't happen, which is why you know who (Yosi you know) is probably going to feel that they have to try to hit Iran, which sucks, cause really it should be the world acting as one who should deal with Iran and not our buddies over you know where. (I don't want to say the name cause it tends to bring out all the worst tendencies of people on this site)
And what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I have to agree with soulsinging on this. Going into Iraq fucked us up for a long time. Not necessarily because of resources, but because no one would ever go for this right now. We would have no world support, the Dems definitely wouldn't go into Iran, and I have a feeling, that because of the low approval ratings, right now not even the Republicans would go in.
precisely. the american people aren't going to rush so recklessly into war again unless the threat it is a bit more serious than talking shit. not to mention we dont have the political capital to do this. the world distrusts us enough as it is. if we seize iran's oil rigs, the international outcry might actually be enough to provoke military action against us. or lend iran support. nobody is going to believe our motives on that one.
I mean it probably won't happen, which is why you know who (Yosi you know) is probably going to feel that they have to try to hit Iran, which sucks, cause really it should be the world acting as one who should deal with Iran and not our buddies over you know where. (I don't want to say the name cause it tends to bring out all the worst tendencies of people on this site)
Word. I miss our buddies.
By the way, Shuki comes home on Thursday. I'm so fucking excited.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
what exactly is more of a threat than a state that calls America its enemy and has done so since 1979 without stop, that has been responsible for the deaths of Americans (and still is as we speak) and is seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?
no, i dont admit it. your view is not the only view my friend. i know you get a hard on for being an armchair general,
sorry, i stopped reading after this point...i just assume the rest was unoriginal cliches....
*updated*
wow, i was right!
Why is it so hard for you people to think in present terms? I really don't care about 2003 b/c it already occurred. how about we address reality. Iraq IS the central front right now. yes, maybe it wasn't in 2003, but it is now. IT IS NOW. can you distinguish reality from utopia?
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
what exactly is more of a threat than a state that calls America its enemy and has done so since 1979 without stop, that has been responsible for the deaths of Americans (and still is as we speak) and is seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?
I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just saying, there is no way the world will view it like that. Because of the context that its in, because people will associate it too much with Iraq, it just will never happen right now.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just saying, there is no way the world will view it like that. Because of the context that its in, because people will associate it too much with Iraq, it just will never happen right now.
you think it's great, that we should discuss whether or not the halocaust happened?
Absolutely. It's obvious there are certain people (and groups of people) who have their minds set on denying and dismissing it all together. So the rational thing to do is to discuss it, present facts (from both sides ), debate the authenticity of those facts; and see if they can come to a conclusion or middle ground. Only then can the issue be put to rest.
What good does it do, with everyone reacting in emotional outrage?
All your doing is allowing them to push your buttons and get you all riled up. You're feeding the fire.
Now, coming together for something like this brings all the alleged geniuses together so they can share their experiences and present their facts.
Certainly there will be plenty of facts presented on this issue. And that is a good thing.....a productive thing.
Absolutely. You mean to tell me you seriously think this is a bad thing?
Considering all the accusations and theories being presented about it never having had happened; it is important for the facts to presented in a rational and reasonable manner.
This isn't high school civics class. it's reality unfolding.
Correct, it is reality unfolding. The reality of it all is that there has been a movement by certain individuals and certain groups of people to disprove and dismiss that it ever happened. So the logical approach is to provide facts which squash these movements and theories. Squash the theories.......you squash the movement and therefore squash the individuals behind the theories and movements. That's reality.
what exactly is more of a threat than a state that calls America its enemy and has done so since 1979 without stop, that has been responsible for the deaths of Americans (and still is as we speak) and is seeking to acquire nuclear weapons?
becos since 1979 they've been talking and havent done anything. and we were told iraq was an imminent threat. it was total bullshit and americans dont like being lied to. now it's some freedom quest. they're not going to trust the government to make the right decision after they fucked the last one up so badly.
sorry, i stopped reading after this point...i just assume the rest was unoriginal cliches....
*updated*
wow, i was right!
Why is it so hard for you people to think in present terms? I really don't care about 2003 b/c it already occurred. how about we address reality. Iraq IS the central front right now. yes, maybe it wasn't in 2003, but it is now. IT IS NOW. can you distinguish reality from utopia?
regardless, we cant do jack shit about iran. so i dont see what your point is? like it or not, our actions in iraq have hampered us from acting in iran now. regardless of this "central front" nonsense, what do you propose we do about iran? do you have any constructive solutions yourself? can you deal with that reality NOW?
and if you're such a military genius, why havent you enlisted? cos apparently we need someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
becos since 1979 they've been talking and havent done anything. and we were told iraq was an imminent threat. it was total bullshit and americans dont like being lied to. now it's some freedom quest. they're not going to trust the government to make the right decision after they fucked the last one up so badly.
I think you might want to revise your statement about them not having done anything. There was the hostages from the American embassy, there were the 240 odd marines killed by Hezballah (an arm of the Iranian revolution) in beirut in the 80s, not to mention that Iran is currently playing host to a number of prominent members of al Qaida including Bin Laden's son, and the list goes on.
I think you might want to revise your statement about them not having done anything. There was the hostages from the American embassy, there were the 240 odd marines killed by Hezballah (an arm of the Iranian revolution) in beirut in the 80s, not to mention that Iran is currently playing host to a number of prominent members of al Qaida including Bin Laden's son, and the list goes on.
Dude, I'm out. Got a final at 8:30 tomorrow. Will talk to you later.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I think you might want to revise your statement about them not having done anything. There was the hostages from the American embassy, there were the 240 odd marines killed by Hezballah (an arm of the Iranian revolution) in beirut in the 80s, not to mention that Iran is currently playing host to a number of prominent members of al Qaida including Bin Laden's son, and the list goes on.
the hostage crisis, yes. but american memories are short. to a generation that barely remembers the last commercial break, that's about as relevant as the civil war. hezbollah has ties to iran perhaps, but they're tenuous and difficult to prove and the american public would never buy it after the admin betrayed their confidence in iraq. ditto with bin laden and alqaida. if we were truly serious about them, we'd not have bailed out on afghanistan to go romping through iraq (which had no ties to al-qaida). but we dont really care much about al-qaida.
Why is it so hard for you people to think in present terms? I really don't care about 2003 b/c it already occurred. how about we address reality. Iraq IS the central front right now. yes, maybe it wasn't in 2003, but it is now. IT IS NOW. can you distinguish reality from utopia?
You're the one not living in reality.
Things are much more complicated, now, then they were in 2003. It's not 2003 and it's not 2001. Half the world couldn't give a rat's ass about 9/11, because our military went and bombed the crap out of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. You lose support when you go and punch the crap out the little neighbors of the neighborhood bullies.
To make matters worse, we hung around and occupied the little neighbors home with arrogance, ill-advised, poorly though-out and poorly executed strategy.
So the little neighbor has been inflicting damage to the occupying bully and made a joke of the occupying bully. With help from all the bigger, neighboring bullies; of course.
We didn't do the right thing. So the rest of the world has no faith in us doing the right thing.
Bendikt Frings, 48, a psychologist from Germany, said he believed that Mr. Ahmadinejad was “an honest, direct man.” He said he had come to the conference to thank the president for what he had initiated.
“We are forbidden to have such a conference in Germany,” he said. “All my childhood, we waited for something like this.”
Frederick Toben, from Australia, said Mr. Ahmadinejad had opened an issue “which is morally and intellectually crippling the Western society.”
“People are imprisoned in Germany for denying the Holocaust,” he added. Mr. Toben said that he was jailed for six months in 1999 for his ideas and that there was a court order in Germany to arrest him if he again spoke against the Holocaust.
Comments
Your thumbs Yosi...I want them in my ass...or one in my ass and the other on the reach around. But that's just me.
Whether we want to admit it or not (and nobody seems to want to)...Iraq is the Iranian front right now in this war. period.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Oh dear...
no, i dont admit it. your view is not the only view my friend. i know you get a hard on for being an armchair general, but you're not in command. and the people in command now say we dont have the resources and iraq is a LONG way from being stable. it will be a decade at least before we're able to do jack shit about iran and furthermore, iraq was not necessary to stop iran. in fact, it's almost counter-productive. saddam hated iran. if we'd waited and stablized afghanistan, we'd still have an international coalition backing us and if iran was getting fresh like they are now, we'd have had that coalition at our backs to go in there and straighten them out. saddam would have been pissing himself out of fear of us and he'd have been eager to help or stay neutral... due to his dislike of iran and desperation to gain some sort of international credibility. instead, our coalition crumbled with ill will over our poor decisions in iraq and our military is tied down. THAT is why iran is not afraid to talk shit. they know we cant do a godamn thing about it. if we'd never have gone into iraq, we'd have the ayatollah or whatever-the-fuck his title is in jail right now
you know you like it
And what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I have to agree with soulsinging on this. Going into Iraq fucked us up for a long time. Not necessarily because of resources, but because no one would ever go for this right now. We would have no world support, the Dems definitely wouldn't go into Iran, and I have a feeling, that because of the low approval ratings, right now not even the Republicans would go in.
Um, no comment.
precisely. the american people aren't going to rush so recklessly into war again unless the threat it is a bit more serious than talking shit. not to mention we dont have the political capital to do this. the world distrusts us enough as it is. if we seize iran's oil rigs, the international outcry might actually be enough to provoke military action against us. or lend iran support. nobody is going to believe our motives on that one.
Word. I miss our buddies.
By the way, Shuki comes home on Thursday. I'm so fucking excited.
sorry, i stopped reading after this point...i just assume the rest was unoriginal cliches....
*updated*
wow, i was right!
Why is it so hard for you people to think in present terms? I really don't care about 2003 b/c it already occurred. how about we address reality. Iraq IS the central front right now. yes, maybe it wasn't in 2003, but it is now. IT IS NOW. can you distinguish reality from utopia?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just saying, there is no way the world will view it like that. Because of the context that its in, because people will associate it too much with Iraq, it just will never happen right now.
It's quicker than saying "I agree with..."
Balls!
Absolutely. It's obvious there are certain people (and groups of people) who have their minds set on denying and dismissing it all together. So the rational thing to do is to discuss it, present facts (from both sides ), debate the authenticity of those facts; and see if they can come to a conclusion or middle ground. Only then can the issue be put to rest.
What good does it do, with everyone reacting in emotional outrage?
All your doing is allowing them to push your buttons and get you all riled up. You're feeding the fire.
Now, coming together for something like this brings all the alleged geniuses together so they can share their experiences and present their facts.
Certainly there will be plenty of facts presented on this issue. And that is a good thing.....a productive thing.
Absolutely. You mean to tell me you seriously think this is a bad thing?
Considering all the accusations and theories being presented about it never having had happened; it is important for the facts to presented in a rational and reasonable manner.
Correct, it is reality unfolding. The reality of it all is that there has been a movement by certain individuals and certain groups of people to disprove and dismiss that it ever happened. So the logical approach is to provide facts which squash these movements and theories. Squash the theories.......you squash the movement and therefore squash the individuals behind the theories and movements. That's reality.
That's fair.
becos since 1979 they've been talking and havent done anything. and we were told iraq was an imminent threat. it was total bullshit and americans dont like being lied to. now it's some freedom quest. they're not going to trust the government to make the right decision after they fucked the last one up so badly.
regardless, we cant do jack shit about iran. so i dont see what your point is? like it or not, our actions in iraq have hampered us from acting in iran now. regardless of this "central front" nonsense, what do you propose we do about iran? do you have any constructive solutions yourself? can you deal with that reality NOW?
and if you're such a military genius, why havent you enlisted? cos apparently we need someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
I think you might want to revise your statement about them not having done anything. There was the hostages from the American embassy, there were the 240 odd marines killed by Hezballah (an arm of the Iranian revolution) in beirut in the 80s, not to mention that Iran is currently playing host to a number of prominent members of al Qaida including Bin Laden's son, and the list goes on.
Dude, I'm out. Got a final at 8:30 tomorrow. Will talk to you later.
the hostage crisis, yes. but american memories are short. to a generation that barely remembers the last commercial break, that's about as relevant as the civil war. hezbollah has ties to iran perhaps, but they're tenuous and difficult to prove and the american public would never buy it after the admin betrayed their confidence in iraq. ditto with bin laden and alqaida. if we were truly serious about them, we'd not have bailed out on afghanistan to go romping through iraq (which had no ties to al-qaida). but we dont really care much about al-qaida.
You're the one not living in reality.
Things are much more complicated, now, then they were in 2003. It's not 2003 and it's not 2001. Half the world couldn't give a rat's ass about 9/11, because our military went and bombed the crap out of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. You lose support when you go and punch the crap out the little neighbors of the neighborhood bullies.
To make matters worse, we hung around and occupied the little neighbors home with arrogance, ill-advised, poorly though-out and poorly executed strategy.
So the little neighbor has been inflicting damage to the occupying bully and made a joke of the occupying bully. With help from all the bigger, neighboring bullies; of course.
We didn't do the right thing. So the rest of the world has no faith in us doing the right thing.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
“We are forbidden to have such a conference in Germany,” he said. “All my childhood, we waited for something like this.”
Frederick Toben, from Australia, said Mr. Ahmadinejad had opened an issue “which is morally and intellectually crippling the Western society.”
“People are imprisoned in Germany for denying the Holocaust,” he added. Mr. Toben said that he was jailed for six months in 1999 for his ideas and that there was a court order in Germany to arrest him if he again spoke against the Holocaust.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Holocaust?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.