let the dialogue begin!

245

Comments

  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    I think this is great. They should talk about it, discuss it and debate it; in a civil, reasonable and mature manner. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    But the thing that cracks me up is this. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is desperately trying to expose some kind of hypocrisy in the "west" regarding free-speech, in the aftermath of the terrible and violent behavior of Muslims in reaction to the charicatures. All the while ignoring the violent history and pattern of Islam's intolerance towards any criticism or jabs at Islam and Muslims.

    He's desperately trying to illustrate that the west will react as violently and mindlessly as did those Muslims. But it hasn't happened and won't happen.

    Now what I want to see is, some more charicatures goofing on Islam and Mohammed. I'm interested to see how Muslims will react. Will it be the same violent and mindless reactions, again? Or will they finally understand that Muslims are not the only people on this planet who have a right criticize, create charicatures or satire/parody other religions and it's followers?



    "Trust me, a majority of posters here were offended by his (and my) post.

    I'd appreciate if you never include me in your "majority of posters" list and never assume you can speak for me. Quite frankily, I see no reason for anyone to be offended by anything dayan said. Absurd.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    NMyTree wrote:
    I think this is great. They should talk about it, discuss it and debate it; in a civil, reasonable and mature manner. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    But the thing that cracks me up is this. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is desperately trying to expose some kind of hypocrisy in the "west" regarding free-speech, in the aftermath of the terrible and violent behavior of Muslims in reaction to the charicatures. All the while ignoring the violent history and pattern of Islam's intolerance towards any criticism or jabs at Islam and Muslims.

    He's desperately trying to illustrate that the west will react as violently and mindlessly as did those Muslims. But it hasn't happened and won't happen.

    Now what I want to see is, some more charicatures goofing on Islam and Mohammed. I'm interested to see how Muslims will react. Will it be the same violent and mindless reactions, again? Or will they finally understand that Muslims are not the only people on this planet who have a right criticize, create charicatures or satire/parody other religions and it's followers?



    "Trust me, a majority of posters here were offended by his (and my) post.

    I'd appreciate if you never include me in your "majority of posters" list and never assume you can speak for me. Quite frankily, I see no reason for anyone to be offended by anything dayan said. Absurd.

    Agreed ... He's waiting for us to riot, or launch a military raid ... And its simply not going to happen. Fool.
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    NMyTree wrote:
    I think this is great. They should talk about it, discuss it and debate it; in a civil, reasonable and mature manner. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    .

    you think it's great, that we should discuss whether or not the halocaust happened?

    seriously? this is your serious opinion?

    This isn't high school civics class. it's reality unfolding.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    I've always kinda wanted to riot though. It just looks like so much fun. maybe we could just overturn a few cars and light some stuff on fire. not too many things, mind you, just a few things.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    misguided and offensive. now those are some strong words. i'm not sure the UN security council would agree on those words...maybe given 3 months, they can work out the specific language.

    the point is...is that there is nothing to talk about with this guy.

    I know confrontation makes almost everyone uncomfortable, but if you don't think one is coming from this guy, sorry, you are the one with blinders on.

    im well aware we've been on a collision course with iran. it was one of the chief reasons i opposed iraq. we dont have the resources now to handle iran. if we werent bogged down in iraq (a country which was NOT a serious threat to us) we might be able to do something about this. as it is, we're stuck with our thumbs up our asses.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    dayan wrote:
    I've always kinda wanted to riot though. It just looks like so much fun. maybe we could just overturn a few cars and light some stuff on fire. not too many things, mind you, just a few things.

    Indeed ... But first? We must print off pictures of our leaders to wave around while we froth with righteous rage!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    dayan wrote:
    I've always kinda wanted to riot though. It just looks like so much fun. maybe we could just overturn a few cars and light some stuff on fire. not too many things, mind you, just a few things.

    shit man, you dont need to have a holocaust conference for that. just come on down to columbus after the buckeyes win the national championship again ;)
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    soulsinging wrote:
    as it is, we're stuck with our thumbs up our asses.

    Where else would you want your thumbs?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    regarding confrontation, though, and I say this seriously, I don't see what is to be gained from talking with Iran. We've tried this before. Carter, Reagan, and Clinton all tried to talk to Iran and got nowhere, and right now frankly Iran is laughing at how we are totally unable or unwilling to touch them despite the fact that everyone knows they are backing the very same people we're currently fighting in Iraq, that they are behind Hezbollah who are currently trying to overthrow the government of Lebanon, and on and on. I mean Iran already sees itself in a clash of civilizations with us. they think they are at war with us, but we just refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation. I really think confrontation is coming and we should make sure it happens on our terms.
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    soulsinging wrote:
    shit man, you dont need to have a holocaust conference for that. just come on down to columbus after the buckeyes win the national championship again ;)

    I was about to say, isn't Detroit good in some sport and have some chance at winning or losing? :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    yosi wrote:
    Where else would you want your thumbs?

    Your thumbs Yosi...I want them in my ass...or one in my ass and the other on the reach around. But that's just me.
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    soulsinging wrote:
    im well aware we've been on a collision course with iran. it was one of the chief reasons i opposed iraq. we dont have the resources now to handle iran. if we werent bogged down in iraq (a country which was NOT a serious threat to us) we might be able to do something about this. as it is, we're stuck with our thumbs up our asses.

    Whether we want to admit it or not (and nobody seems to want to)...Iraq is the Iranian front right now in this war. period.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    dayan wrote:
    Your thumbs Yosi...I want them in my ass...or one in my ass and the other on the reach around. But that's just me.

    Oh dear... :o
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Whether we want to admit it or not (and nobody seems to want to)...Iraq is the Iranian front right now in this war. period.

    no, i dont admit it. your view is not the only view my friend. i know you get a hard on for being an armchair general, but you're not in command. and the people in command now say we dont have the resources and iraq is a LONG way from being stable. it will be a decade at least before we're able to do jack shit about iran and furthermore, iraq was not necessary to stop iran. in fact, it's almost counter-productive. saddam hated iran. if we'd waited and stablized afghanistan, we'd still have an international coalition backing us and if iran was getting fresh like they are now, we'd have had that coalition at our backs to go in there and straighten them out. saddam would have been pissing himself out of fear of us and he'd have been eager to help or stay neutral... due to his dislike of iran and desperation to gain some sort of international credibility. instead, our coalition crumbled with ill will over our poor decisions in iraq and our military is tied down. THAT is why iran is not afraid to talk shit. they know we cant do a godamn thing about it. if we'd never have gone into iraq, we'd have the ayatollah or whatever-the-fuck his title is in jail right now
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    and I'm not convinced we don't have the resources to deal with Iran. we still have the full force of our air force and navy which is really all we need if we take the right approach. There was a great piece recently in Commentary magazine about how easy it would be for us to sieze Iran's offshore oil pumps using very few soldiers which would cripple their economy without putting our soldiers at great risk. we could even keep pumping the oil and selling it to the normal buyers and we could put the money in escrow for Iran, so that once they have a government that agrees to play by the rules they could claim the proceeds.
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    yosi wrote:
    Oh dear... :o

    you know you like it
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    dayan wrote:
    and I'm not convinced we don't have the resources to deal with Iran. we still have the full force of our air force and navy which is really all we need if we take the right approach. There was a great piece recently in Commentary magazine about how easy it would be for us to sieze Iran's offshore oil pumps using very few soldiers which would cripple their economy without putting our soldiers at great risk. we could even keep pumping the oil and selling it to the normal buyers and we could put the money in escrow for Iran, so that once they have a government that agrees to play by the rules they could claim the proceeds.


    And what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I have to agree with soulsinging on this. Going into Iraq fucked us up for a long time. Not necessarily because of resources, but because no one would ever go for this right now. We would have no world support, the Dems definitely wouldn't go into Iran, and I have a feeling, that because of the low approval ratings, right now not even the Republicans would go in.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    dayan wrote:
    you know you like it

    Um, no comment.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • dayan
    dayan Posts: 475
    I mean it probably won't happen, which is why you know who (Yosi you know) is probably going to feel that they have to try to hit Iran, which sucks, cause really it should be the world acting as one who should deal with Iran and not our buddies over you know where. (I don't want to say the name cause it tends to bring out all the worst tendencies of people on this site)
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    yosi wrote:
    And what's the likelyhood of this ever happening? I have to agree with soulsinging on this. Going into Iraq fucked us up for a long time. Not necessarily because of resources, but because no one would ever go for this right now. We would have no world support, the Dems definitely wouldn't go into Iran, and I have a feeling, that because of the low approval ratings, right now not even the Republicans would go in.

    precisely. the american people aren't going to rush so recklessly into war again unless the threat it is a bit more serious than talking shit. not to mention we dont have the political capital to do this. the world distrusts us enough as it is. if we seize iran's oil rigs, the international outcry might actually be enough to provoke military action against us. or lend iran support. nobody is going to believe our motives on that one.

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