Disagreeing is valid, imo. The idea is that there are two different views, and they are at odds with each other. It's when we are infringing in our disagreement that I take issue with.
If you see that people agree on core principles, I disagree!
then we will have to agree to disagree..even though i hate cliches...
i think you can agree on core principles, but disagree on how to get there. you can disagree on which "side" espouses your own core principles, even though both sides have the same goal in mind.
way i see it...almost everyone agrees on individual freedoms...it's about how to achieve that goal is where we disagree. and maybe the motives of the other side... we cynically view the other side as the enemy...if we "impose" our views, i.e. express them, maybe that's a start to communication.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
If you remember the infamous Einstein article* from the other day, we're all attributing arbitrary value to everything. It's all dependent on our worldviews. Again, it's about how humans process information, and our "signifiers" that represent what IS real. The signifiers aren't what is real. They are all arbitrary, due to what we are predisposed to comprehend.
I, for some reason, happen to understand all points of religious view, and how they all stem from the exact same basic principles, and are sculped and molded by our different psychological and cultural views. I totally support even the fundamental Christian view. Their idea of reality is different than, say, a scientist's. Each one is perceiving reality. This illusion that science is any less manmade, in my opinion, is the big hoax here. I say this with complete and utmost seriousness.
I asked a simple question.
Children's stories are children's stories, I think. You're bringing all sorts of other things into this. Are children's stories not indeed children's stories? That's a pretty basic question.
anyone that completely tosses science out the window (as in this case) is in for a pretty serious reality crash one day...
maybe that's what Prozac is for...
Any way to make a buck off people I suppose.
It was the opposite for me. I needed medication and all kinds of help when I was detached of my deep center, being my potential--my spiritual Presence.
People's beliefs are valid if they serve people. Most people use religion because it serves them. For those, like many on this board, who grow past that, great. You don't spontaneously combust doing so, apparently. What's the harm? It's actually religious people who get medical benefits of living longer and feeling quality of life rewards from religion, rather than the consequences of cynicism.
When I was a child and started growing out of magical thinking, I didn't crumble in pain. Some people, in perfect synch with nature, will live out their lives leaning towards magical thinking. It's okay when we can get over our own feelings about it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I asked a simple question.
Children's stories are children's stories, I think. You're bringing all sorts of other things into this. Are children's stories not indeed children's stories? That's a pretty basic question.
I'm saying all of our "stories" we use to describe life are just that. If you are referring to the idea of "magical thinking", it's not just children who share in that developmental phase. Also many new age people share that...and fundamentalists of any kind, obviously, and tribal peoples...
Whatever narratives we use are just that. Our society dramatically approves of science as the acceptable stories to use. And we don't realize we're as biased as a society who relies mostly on religion. I guess that's bias for you.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm saying all of our "stories" we use to describe life are just that. If you are referring to the idea of "magical thinking", it's not just children who share in that developmental phase. Also many new age people share that...and fundamentalists of any kind, obviously, and tribal peoples...
Whatever narratives we use are just that. Our society dramatically approves of science as the acceptable stories to use. And we don't realize we're as biased as a society who relies mostly on religion. I guess that's bias for you.
So, in your understanding of Christianity, you don't see a childish aspect to this sort of teaching?
Same here...I am so tired of telling people they are wrong. What does it accomplish number one and number two...everyone thinks they are right, so how is my 'right' any better than their 'right'? All I can do is accept that people see things very differently and speak of my own truth...speak of what matters to me and hope it resonates with others. This board is living proof that shouting out how wrong the other guy is just a waste of time and energy. We've been posting here for years and how many people have really changed their stances? Nothing ever changes that way...people just shut you out. If you focus on the positives of what you believe, it will gain support and people will more readily flow towards your point of view.
I completely agree. The amazing thing about people resonating with each other or not is that is the real natural selection stuff. When we're in touch with our own vision, and living that, we naturally attract like-minded individuals who tend to include all the differences needed to inspire our growth, too. It's so natural and works so nicely. I especially get amazed on boards like this, where I see how I gravitate to certain people who resonate with me, including one's with opposite opinions. It pays to focus on what we DO want to create.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It was the opposite for me. I needed medication and all kinds of help when I was detached of my deep center, being my potential--my spiritual Presence.
People's beliefs are valid if they serve people. Most people use religion because it serves them. For those, like many on this board, who grow past that, great. You don't spontaneously combust doing so, apparently. What's the harm? It's actually religious people who get medical benefits of living longer and feeling quality of life rewards from religion, rather than the consequences of cynicism.
When I was a child and started growing out of magical thinking, I didn't crumble in pain. Some people, in perfect synch with nature, will live out their lives leaning towards magical thinking. It's okay when we can get over our own feelings about it.
I feel ok that there's no heaven or hell. I am quite happy and don't feel it will shorten my life by having any grief over it. For those that go haywire thinking there's no heaven and that they will actually die one day...or they will suffer eternally in hell unless they jump through hoops and made to feel guilty about being human all their lives...oh well... ignorance can definitely be bliss in many circumstances. Religion is extremely flawed in that it is very unaccepting of others that differ from the "chosen" word or "true god". I believe the notion of it it has arisen merely out of the human condition of being sentient...which would definitely explain all the different flavors and glaring contradictions between them all across different races and countries etc... obvious cause and effect.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
So, in your understanding of Christianity, you don't see a childish aspect to this sort of teaching?
You think these are simple questions. But, in my own integration, a HUGE aspect (and apparently huge in much psychological healing stuff) is integrating the inner child. And I've done this for a longgg time.
So when you say "childish" you hook all kinds of wonderful feelings about my inner potential. Much of our unconscious self is not rational, but is rather all kinds of childish impulses. These impulses are also our very base, honest, and artistic and creative impulses. They are literally our potential, before our parents warped this potential by teaching us to be "reasonable".
In working on integrating these impulses, I've had to let go of logical "judgments" of them that our parents laid on us, that were...well...crap. That our true base nature is foolish, and that imagination is "imaginary" and false. And that we should be "realistic".
What I'm saying is if you mean do I see these stories as having a holistic, poetic reality that resonates with my inner child, yes. Do I logically believe them....no. But keep in mind that it's my inner child/potential/essense that I align with--my more base energy. And this energy uses logic as a tool, not as a game plan. This energy uses vibrant and creative power and potential as it's game plan.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I feel ok that there's no heaven or hell. I am quite happy and don't feel it will shorten my life by having any grief over it. For those that go haywire thinking there's no heaven and that they will actually die one day...or they will suffer eternally in hell unless they jump through hoops and made to feel guilty about being human all their lives...oh well... ignorance can definitely be bliss in many circumstances. Religion is extremely flawed in that it is very unaccepting of others that differ from the "chosen" word or "true god". I believe the notion of it it has arisen merely out of the human condition of being sentient...which would definitely explain all the different flavors and glaring contradictions between them all across different races and countries etc... obvious cause and effect.
Do you think your ideas about this phenomena, that I've bolded, actually reflects what this phenomena is in the experience of those who are living it?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I feel ok that there's no heaven or hell. I am quite happy and don't feel it will shorten my life by having any grief over it. For those that go haywire thinking there's no heaven and that they will actually die one day...or they will suffer eternally in hell unless they jump through hoops and made to feel guilty about being human all their lives...oh well... ignorance can definitely be bliss in many circumstances. Religion is extremely flawed in that it is very unaccepting of others that differ from the "chosen" word or "true god". I believe the notion of it it has arisen merely out of the human condition of being sentient...which would definitely explain all the different flavors and glaring contradictions between them all across different races and countries etc... obvious cause and effect.
I don't think 'religion' is the problem per se'. I think it is the teaching of lies as truth that is harmful. I have no problem with the great human history of storytelling, even in the Biblical context, but at some point in time the teacher/parent has got to let on to the child that it is only storytelling.
I don't think 'religion' is the problem per se'. I think it is the teaching of lies as truth that is harmful. I have no problem with the great human history of storytelling, even in the Biblical context, but at some point in time the teacher/parent has got to let on to the child that it is only storytelling.
Are you all for telling them that about evolution, too? That it's only a story we tell ourselves about the underlying principles of life?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Are you all for telling them that about evolution, too? That it's only a story we tell ourselves about the underlying principles of life?
"Underlying principles of life" have very much to do with the basics: water, air, earth, food, and procreation (fucking): not storytelling. Storytelling is something we did by the campfire.
Do you think your ideas about this phenomena, that I've bolded, actually reflects what this phenomena is in the experience of those who are living it?
Until I discovered science I had the notion of heaven and hell driven into my brain as the ultimate reality since birth, and I truly believed that one day I would ascend to heaven to live in a cloud filled (or something to that effect) utopia somewhere forever... and ever amen.
So yes. I think for a lot of people to think otherwise causes them to unravel at the seams and dismiss it as sheer nonsense (or perhaps evil thoughts) and revert back to the comfort zone immediately into prayer asking for guidance and strength during this time of weakness.
Some people are seriously hooked on believing their god. That just it...it's all about believing to no end...it's completely circular in function and design so as not to stray from the flock so to speak. It close minded in my opinion. It ultimately closes the mind to further possibilities and understanding.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
then we will have to agree to disagree..even though i hate cliches...
i think you can agree on core principles, but disagree on how to get there. you can disagree on which "side" espouses your own core principles, even though both sides have the same goal in mind.
way i see it...almost everyone agrees on individual freedoms...it's about how to achieve that goal is where we disagree. and maybe the motives of the other side... we cynically view the other side as the enemy...if we "impose" our views, i.e. express them, maybe that's a start to communication.
I differentiate "expressing" views from "imposing" them. Expressing is completely acceptable, even dramatic, opinionated, views. Imposing crosses the line, in terms that we hook ourselves into cycles and get natural consequences. Yes, where this happens, this serves a purpose of us learning the hard way (rather than in theory) how to eventually solve the negative situations we create, and thereby grow. (look around this board for examples. )
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"Underlying principles of life" have very much to do with the basics: water, air, earth, food, and procreation (fucking): not storytelling. Storytelling is something we did by the campfire.
Okay, it seems we're going nowhere. You have your view, and your definitions and context, and I have mine. We're generally comparing different symbolism. Which is my point about the fact that worldview's cannot be judged by a different worldview. It's brings inaccurate judgment, since the meanings are different to individuals.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't think 'religion' is the problem per se'. I think it is the teaching of lies as truth that is harmful. I have no problem with the great human history of storytelling, even in the Biblical context, but at some point in time the teacher/parent has got to let on to the child that it is only storytelling.
The principles of religion are valid. They all operate on a love thy neighbor, do no wrong concept. This is a good thing. Taking everything too literally is conducive to becoming essentially naive imo.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Okay, it seems we're going nowhere. You have your view, and your definitions and context, and I have mine. We're generally comparing different symbolism. Which is my point about the fact that worldview's cannot be judged by a different worldview. It's brings inaccurate judgment, since the meanings are different to individuals.
I think you think you're individuating yourself from the basics of life. No one can do that. You have to breathe, eat, drink water, sleep... that is life. It isn't that complicated.
You can individuate your views, and that's fine, but you cannot escape the basic survival drives of all mammalian life on this planet.
Until I discovered science I had the notion of heaven and hell driven into my brain as the ultimate reality since birth, and I truly believed that one day I would ascend to heaven to live in a cloud filled (or something to that effect) utopia somewhere forever... and ever amen.
So yes. I think for a lot of people to think otherwise causes them to unravel at the seams and dismiss it as sheer nonsense (or perhaps evil thoughts) and revert back to the comfort zone immediately into prayer asking for guidance and strength during this time of weakness.
Some people are seriously hooked on believing their god. That just it...it's all about believing to no end...it's completely circular in function and design so as not to stray from the flock so to speak. It close minded in my opinion. It ultimately closes the mind to further possibilities and understanding.
when we're born, we have whatever it is that takes the role of filling our symbolism for the "higher" artistic, subjective and meaning aspects of life. For many, this is symbolized by religion. Whether it's religion, or art, or philosophy or what, the symbolism is just representing an aspect of our nature. These views become hard-wired in us. It's not the symbols that are "bad". It's life problems and how they affect us and cause us pain, and that become emotionally entangled with the symbol. A symbol cannot be bad.
When the symbols happen to be associated with much distortion, and pain/discomfort, like you describe, then it's not the symbols that are causing the problem. It's the distortions.
Yes, people are hooked on having a vested interest in staying connected with the Higher aspects of their perception and meaning, because it becomes an internalized part of them. There are many serious challenges that people experience moving to a new developmental stage, and most get frozen at one in adulthood and do not progress. Given this, its easy to understand why people are hooked on their beliefs. (which includes beliefs of all worldviews, by the way)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i can not see this museum as a valid learning institute in any way shape or form. i dont care what spin you put on it. dinosaurs on the ark? is this because the religious folk have acknowledged the validity in the scientific dating of the dinosaurs and their existence on earth. and realising it doesnt quite match up with their stories? not to mention the fact that it makes no sense that animals we know to be carnivores are alledged to be vegetarian until adam's fall. LMAO!!
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i liked the evolution question in the republican debates. next time they should ask them to raise their hand if they think the earth is about 6000 years old. i bet at least 3 hands go up........
i can not see this museum as a valid learning institute in any way shape or form. i dont care what spin you put on it. dinosaurs on the ark? is this because the religious folk have acknowledged the validity in the scientific dating of the dinosaurs and their existence on earth. and realising it doesnt quite match up with their stories? not to mention the fact that it makes no sense that animals we know to be carnivores are alledged to be vegetarian until adam's fall. LMAO!!
Aha... I knew it...they were teenage dinosaurs...much smaller of course. It's all so clear now
Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 16,000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..
the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.
Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.
honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...
or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 8000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..
the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.
Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.
honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...
or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe
hey look, someone is attempting to apply reason and logic ... and thought to the bible.
Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 16,000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..
the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.
Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.
honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...
or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe
hey look, someone is attempting to apply reason and logic ... and thought to the bible.
reason and logic are apparently highly over rated...and evil...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It was the number of animals that did it for me...lol It was 8000 pairs or 16,000 individual animals. It would take a team of at least 40-50 people working round the clock to feed and shovel feces overboard...that's about 320+ animals per person to look after every day. How many people were aboard the ark again?
Certainly a floating miracle. Seven little letters that can apparently explain absolutely anything if the mind is willing.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The way I call it... if you are a nice person to me... and are nice to other people... and kind to animals... I don't care if you worship Allah or Jesus or Satan or Tom Cruise. No one assigned the task of judging other people's beliefs to me.
On the other hand... if you are a selfish, nasty, decietful person who tries to convince me of your righteousness because of your religion... whatever religion, including the belief in non-belief... I'm seeing through you and taking your word for what it's worth... which ain't much.
And when I say I want nothing to do with the Church... I mean ALL Churches. I see Churches as nothing more than businesses with tax exempt status. This doesn't mean I don't believe in God... I just see God and religion as two completely seperate entities.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The way I call it... if you are a nice person to me... and are nice to other people... and kind to animals... I don't care if you worship Allah or Jesus or Satan or Tom Cruise. No one assigned the task of judging other people's beliefs to me.
On the other hand... if you are a selfish, nasty, decietful person who tries to convince me of your righteousness because of your religion... whatever religion, including the belief in non-belief... I'm seeing through you and taking your word for what it's worth... which ain't much.
And when I say I want nothing to do with the Church... I mean ALL Churches. I see Churches as nothing more than businesses with tax exempt status. This doesn't mean I don't believe in God... I just see God and religion as two completely seperate entities.
Very well put, Cosmo. I think God left the church a long time ago.
Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 16,000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..
the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.
Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.
honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...
or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe
i always figured it as all the animals KNOWN TO NOAH in HIS world. not all the animals in the world as we know it. that would just be ridiculous.
as to the age of Noah - the measure of a year way back when, is different that what we know it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yes i know it says in genesis how old Noah was. but remember it says a lot of things in the bible that may not be necessarily so as we know it. or even how we interpret things.
don't think i am some sort of biblical apologist. i am deconstructing it as i would any work of fiction.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
then we will have to agree to disagree..even though i hate cliches...
i think you can agree on core principles, but disagree on how to get there. you can disagree on which "side" espouses your own core principles, even though both sides have the same goal in mind.
way i see it...almost everyone agrees on individual freedoms...it's about how to achieve that goal is where we disagree. and maybe the motives of the other side... we cynically view the other side as the enemy...if we "impose" our views, i.e. express them, maybe that's a start to communication.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I asked a simple question.
Children's stories are children's stories, I think. You're bringing all sorts of other things into this. Are children's stories not indeed children's stories? That's a pretty basic question.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
People's beliefs are valid if they serve people. Most people use religion because it serves them. For those, like many on this board, who grow past that, great. You don't spontaneously combust doing so, apparently. What's the harm? It's actually religious people who get medical benefits of living longer and feeling quality of life rewards from religion, rather than the consequences of cynicism.
When I was a child and started growing out of magical thinking, I didn't crumble in pain. Some people, in perfect synch with nature, will live out their lives leaning towards magical thinking. It's okay when we can get over our own feelings about it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Whatever narratives we use are just that. Our society dramatically approves of science as the acceptable stories to use. And we don't realize we're as biased as a society who relies mostly on religion. I guess that's bias for you.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
So, in your understanding of Christianity, you don't see a childish aspect to this sort of teaching?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I feel ok that there's no heaven or hell. I am quite happy and don't feel it will shorten my life by having any grief over it. For those that go haywire thinking there's no heaven and that they will actually die one day...or they will suffer eternally in hell unless they jump through hoops and made to feel guilty about being human all their lives...oh well... ignorance can definitely be bliss in many circumstances. Religion is extremely flawed in that it is very unaccepting of others that differ from the "chosen" word or "true god". I believe the notion of it it has arisen merely out of the human condition of being sentient...which would definitely explain all the different flavors and glaring contradictions between them all across different races and countries etc... obvious cause and effect.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
So when you say "childish" you hook all kinds of wonderful feelings about my inner potential. Much of our unconscious self is not rational, but is rather all kinds of childish impulses. These impulses are also our very base, honest, and artistic and creative impulses. They are literally our potential, before our parents warped this potential by teaching us to be "reasonable".
In working on integrating these impulses, I've had to let go of logical "judgments" of them that our parents laid on us, that were...well...crap. That our true base nature is foolish, and that imagination is "imaginary" and false. And that we should be "realistic".
What I'm saying is if you mean do I see these stories as having a holistic, poetic reality that resonates with my inner child, yes. Do I logically believe them....no. But keep in mind that it's my inner child/potential/essense that I align with--my more base energy. And this energy uses logic as a tool, not as a game plan. This energy uses vibrant and creative power and potential as it's game plan.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't think 'religion' is the problem per se'. I think it is the teaching of lies as truth that is harmful. I have no problem with the great human history of storytelling, even in the Biblical context, but at some point in time the teacher/parent has got to let on to the child that it is only storytelling.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"Underlying principles of life" have very much to do with the basics: water, air, earth, food, and procreation (fucking): not storytelling. Storytelling is something we did by the campfire.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Until I discovered science I had the notion of heaven and hell driven into my brain as the ultimate reality since birth, and I truly believed that one day I would ascend to heaven to live in a cloud filled (or something to that effect) utopia somewhere forever... and ever amen.
So yes. I think for a lot of people to think otherwise causes them to unravel at the seams and dismiss it as sheer nonsense (or perhaps evil thoughts) and revert back to the comfort zone immediately into prayer asking for guidance and strength during this time of weakness.
Some people are seriously hooked on believing their god. That just it...it's all about believing to no end...it's completely circular in function and design so as not to stray from the flock so to speak. It close minded in my opinion. It ultimately closes the mind to further possibilities and understanding.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Okay, it seems we're going nowhere. You have your view, and your definitions and context, and I have mine. We're generally comparing different symbolism. Which is my point about the fact that worldview's cannot be judged by a different worldview. It's brings inaccurate judgment, since the meanings are different to individuals.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The principles of religion are valid. They all operate on a love thy neighbor, do no wrong concept. This is a good thing. Taking everything too literally is conducive to becoming essentially naive imo.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I think you think you're individuating yourself from the basics of life. No one can do that. You have to breathe, eat, drink water, sleep... that is life. It isn't that complicated.
You can individuate your views, and that's fine, but you cannot escape the basic survival drives of all mammalian life on this planet.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
When the symbols happen to be associated with much distortion, and pain/discomfort, like you describe, then it's not the symbols that are causing the problem. It's the distortions.
Yes, people are hooked on having a vested interest in staying connected with the Higher aspects of their perception and meaning, because it becomes an internalized part of them. There are many serious challenges that people experience moving to a new developmental stage, and most get frozen at one in adulthood and do not progress. Given this, its easy to understand why people are hooked on their beliefs. (which includes beliefs of all worldviews, by the way)
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
take a good look
this could be the day
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lie beside me
i just need to say
Aha... I knew it...they were teenage dinosaurs...much smaller of course. It's all so clear now
scroll down to how'd they fit:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp
Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 16,000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..
the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.
Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.
honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...
or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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hey look, someone is attempting to apply reason and logic ... and thought to the bible.
Those were the times of God.
The air was different.
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reason and logic are apparently highly over rated...and evil...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
(")_(")
It was the number of animals that did it for me...lol It was 8000 pairs or 16,000 individual animals. It would take a team of at least 40-50 people working round the clock to feed and shovel feces overboard...that's about 320+ animals per person to look after every day. How many people were aboard the ark again?
Certainly a floating miracle. Seven little letters that can apparently explain absolutely anything if the mind is willing.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
On the other hand... if you are a selfish, nasty, decietful person who tries to convince me of your righteousness because of your religion... whatever religion, including the belief in non-belief... I'm seeing through you and taking your word for what it's worth... which ain't much.
And when I say I want nothing to do with the Church... I mean ALL Churches. I see Churches as nothing more than businesses with tax exempt status. This doesn't mean I don't believe in God... I just see God and religion as two completely seperate entities.
Hail, Hail!!!
Very well put, Cosmo. I think God left the church a long time ago.
i always figured it as all the animals KNOWN TO NOAH in HIS world. not all the animals in the world as we know it. that would just be ridiculous.
as to the age of Noah - the measure of a year way back when, is different that what we know it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
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i just need to say
Well, the 'age of noah' is contained in Genesis, and there is a point of contention today as to the meaning of 'day' in the Genesis article:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/overheads/pages/oh20011221_97.asp
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yes i know it says in genesis how old Noah was. but remember it says a lot of things in the bible that may not be necessarily so as we know it. or even how we interpret things.
don't think i am some sort of biblical apologist. i am deconstructing it as i would any work of fiction.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say