Marijuana May Increase Psychosis Risk

deadnothingbetter

thelowlightargentina wrote:

All that I have to say is that nobody in this universe can tell you what to do with your body and mind and soul...

that's a great advice... especially to the one dude who said was going to hang himself the other day... just cause some voice was telling him to.

Drowned Out

deadnothingbetter wrote:

... these are illnesses that are perfectly solveable... and completely avoidable. leave all the drugs out and voila... less mental health and detox patients!

Leave all the drugs out? What's your plan for this? I understand your frustration with people's addictions. I've seen people's lives destroyed over drugs many times (never over marijuana, mind you)....but the war on drugs only makes this all worse....do you think these people should just get locked up without treatment? Cause if they got caught holding instead of coming to you, that's where they'd be. That's not right IMO.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

...
trust me... i'm passionate about these kinds of things.... i'm not getting defensive here.... on the contrary, i'm getting offensive... especially to you.... not necessarily offend you per se... but try and snap some sense into you.... who gives a fuck about marijuana????? why should that even be an issue... .... seriously though... there are other issues we could talk about, but this one? legalize marijuana? oh, yes, legalize marijuana... for what reason?

read the last paragraph of my last post.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

...
the way i see it... there's enough crap going around... the only reason why one would argue to legalize it is because they're always taking it to the point that they don't wanna go through the hassle of being caught... so they argue why it should be legalized.... and they make such arguments like, "oh, it's actually good for your health as opposed to popular beliefs" i don't consider it a good form of logic... if that makes sense.

um, ya...I don't want the hassle of getting caught. I've never said it's GOOD for you....tho it does have benefits. I'm sure those benefits are prob outweighed by the detrimental effects...but that isn't the point. Like I said, there are things that are legal and easily available that can do WAY more damage to YOUR body.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

...
ok... you got other reasons... political reasons... "the war on drugs is a way for corrupt government agencies to line their pockets"... ok, i'm with you here... i guess. but still.... how does that make it a need to legalize marijuana?

What do you think that money is used for? Either personal gain, or more illegal operations. And it's YOUR money...Does this not make you want change?

deadnothingbetter wrote:

...
the bottom line i'm trying to make is... as a person who works at a mh/cd hospital there are many psychosis that are linked to marijuana... many of them. it's not a "maybe yes, maybe no"... it's a fact. many of them. and why ask the question why it matters? ... so that we won't get patients going to behavioral health hospitals like today... ironically enough... we had a 14 yo patient who was in for behavioral health... parents said this started when she began to smoke marijuana... see, why risk that? we got enough with alcohol... and even with cigarettes... oh and also like the other person said McDonalds. although mcdonalds is more a physical hazard than it is a mental. mainly, the way i see it people just want to legalize weed just because... really. just because they like it. that's basically it. they love to smoke weed and they like it... so they want to legalize it

It frustrates me to have this debate with someone in your industry. First, a 14 year old shouldn't be smoking, period.

Do you honestly think it's right that your facility probably recieves only a fraction of the funding the jails in your state recieve to hold drug offenders? How much do the lawyers, judges, agencies, police forces get to prosecute people, compared to your doctors, nurses, therapists and social workers?

Why do cigarette smokers and McD's junkies get free passes over a health care issue, but pot smokers go to jail? We got enough?...ban everything that's bad for you then.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

...
oh come on.. you're telling me that once they legalize marijuana for ill patients the "unill" patients are gonna stop abusing it?

I don't remember saying that.
What has the war on drugs done to abuse rates? They've risen.
Will it rise more if it's decrim/legalized? It seems in the Netherlands, use stayed constant, and well below the US while it was decriminalized, but rose after it became widely available in coffee shops. The point is, there are other approaches....the current one does not work. The money is better spent elsewhere.
Seriously, watch Grass if you don't want to spend time researching this stuff...it's entertaining AND enlightening.

Drowned Out

And please stop comparing smoking a joint to suicide, that's just bad taste IMO.

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-rWnQphPdQ

thelowlightargentina

deadnothingbetter wrote:

that's a great advice... especially to the one dude who said was going to hang himself the other day... just cause some voice was telling him to.

Are you telling me that you would decide on someone else´s life and what he or she should do with that???

thelowlightargentina

watch this and think about it, specially when he´s talking about "revelations" against what...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmIJQusogqw

Drowned Out

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-rWnQphPdQ

Holy crap....
that is the funniest thing I have seen in a looooong time fins, thanks!

deadnothingbetter

thelowlightargentina wrote:

Are you telling me that you would decide on someone else´s life and what he or she should do with that???

are you telling me that if someone chooses to end their life then we should allow them???

deadnothingbetter

Drowned Out wrote:

Leave all the drugs out? What's your plan for this? I understand your frustration with people's addictions. I've seen people's lives destroyed over drugs many times (never over marijuana, mind you)....but the war on drugs only makes this all worse....do you think these people should just get locked up without treatment? Cause if they got caught holding instead of coming to you, that's where they'd be. That's not right IMO.

You can call me a radical thinker... but I don't believe in any kinds of drugs. Whether legal or illegil is irrelevant to me, because legal or illegal people will still abuse them. I have seen many patients get worse when prescribed vicodine or some kind of drug. I know the doctor implements strict rules on how not to abuse these drugs... but people can be quite irresponsible. I see the same patterns in marijuana smokers. My plan isn't a political one, mine, I guess, is a more personal and spiritual plan, so to speak... I think that we as humans can live in a better world without drugs, including marijuana.

um, ya...I don't want the hassle of getting caught. I've never said it's GOOD for you....tho it does have benefits. I'm sure those benefits are prob outweighed by the detrimental effects...but that isn't the point. Like I said, there are things that are legal and easily available that can do WAY more damage to YOUR body.

I never denied that there were things more dangerous to our bodies than marijuana... cause really I don't think that it really matters.

What do you think that money is used for? Either personal gain, or more illegal operations. And it's YOUR money...Does this not make you want change?

I'm sure it's a great debate... but I still don't see how legalizing marijuana is going to make it "all better".

It frustrates me to have this debate with someone in your industry.

It's really not a debate. It's more of a wanting for you... A debate would be based on something that is "necessary". Marijuana isn't necessary. Sure, there could be benefits to marijuana. I believe that everything can be for a good thing... but if that's what it's used for... then sobeit. Otherwise, it's not an argument.

Do you honestly think it's right that your facility probably recieves only a fraction of the funding the jails in your state recieve to hold drug offenders? How much do the lawyers, judges, agencies, police forces get to prosecute people, compared to your doctors, nurses, therapists and social workers?

Hmmm.... probably not even fairly close... and as I've said, I'm sure it's a great debate but.... is that a good reason to legalize marijuana? Is marijuana, or the "war on drugs", the only discrepencies that we find in our corrupt governments? I think these are all justifications that people try to use just for their benefit. Like.... legalizing marijuana. simply cause they wanna get high.

Why do cigarette smokers and McD's junkies get free passes over a health care issue, but pot smokers go to jail? We got enough?...ban everything that's bad for you then.

No, I don't necessarily believe that smokers should go to jail... but the law will always be the law. That's something that we can't ignore. Whether be a dem or rep... it's good to know that laws can serve to protect us... and as a good democrat might know... the more gov't, the better... But if you want to hear my opinion... smokers should go through some kind of detox trial in order to shove their brains out of their potheaded ideas that marijuana isn't really necessary.

I don't remember saying that.

I never said you said that. It was a rhetorical question.

What has the war on drugs done to abuse rates? They've risen.
Will it rise more if it's decrim/legalized? It seems in the Netherlands, use stayed constant, and well below the US while it was decriminalized, but rose after it became widely available in coffee shops. The point is, there are other approaches....the current one does not work. The money is better spent elsewhere.
Seriously, watch Grass if you don't want to spend time researching this stuff...it's entertaining AND enlightening.

I understand your perspective... and believe me... I'm not against that point-of-view... but look at my point-of-view for a change. Based on the ever-surpassingly excessive experiences of mine... marijuana can make your perceptions a little, mind you, bad. You need to go for at least a day in my job to see where I'm coming from.

hippiemom

deadnothingbetter wrote:

You can call me a radical thinker... but I don't believe in any kinds of drugs. Whether legal or illegil is irrelevant to me, because legal or illegal people will still abuse them. I have seen many patients get worse when prescribed vicodine or some kind of drug. I know the doctor implements strict rules on how not to abuse these drugs... but people can be quite irresponsible. I see the same patterns in marijuana smokers. My plan isn't a political one, mine, I guess, is a more personal and spiritual plan, so to speak... I think that we as humans can live in a better world without drugs, including marijuana.

So what do you suggest for people experiencing chronic pain, chronic nausea, etc?

deadnothingbetter

hippiemom wrote:

So what do you suggest for people experiencing chronic pain, chronic nausea, etc?

read the entire post... it should be on there somewhere... a little indirect, but it's there

and mind you... marijuana isn't the only thing that can help pt's with chronic pain and whatnot... well, i guess painkillers but that's also bad. howabout porn? wait, that doesn't work either

hippiemom

deadnothingbetter wrote:

read the entire post... it should be on there somewhere... a little indirect, but it's there

and mind you... marijuana isn't the only thing that can help pt's with chronic pain and whatnot... well, i guess painkillers but that's also bad. howabout porn? wait, that doesn't work either

Oh, gimme a break, I'm on drugs ... legally prescribed ones, but drugs nonetheless. Can't you just spell it out for me?

deadnothingbetter

hippiemom wrote:

Oh, gimme a break, I'm on drugs ... legally prescribed ones, but drugs nonetheless. Can't you just spell it out for me?

I said if marijuana is used for medical needs then it's completely justifiable on my "terms"... but that's it. I'm no doctor though.

bharQ

everything in moderation

Drowned Out

deadnothingbetter wrote:

You can call me a radical thinker... but I don't believe in any kinds of drugs. Whether legal or illegil is irrelevant to me, because legal or illegal people will still abuse them. I have seen many patients get worse when prescribed vicodine or some kind of drug. I know the doctor implements strict rules on how not to abuse these drugs... but people can be quite irresponsible. I see the same patterns in marijuana smokers. My plan isn't a political one, mine, I guess, is a more personal and spiritual plan, so to speak... I think that we as humans can live in a better world without drugs, including marijuana..

ah, yes...utopia. of course.
you said yourself that people will abuse them either way...that's why it becomes a healthcare issue, as well as a political one.

What if my personal and spiritual plan involves marijuana, and I have no interest in your plan? Where does that leave us? It's ok for me to be persecuted for my personal and spiritual plan?

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I never denied that there were things more dangerous to our bodies than marijuana... cause really I don't think that it really matters. ..

You're right, it doesn't matter what's worse for you...it's your body.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I'm sure it's a great debate... but I still don't see how legalizing marijuana is going to make it "all better"...

I never said all better. Even a little better is...better

deadnothingbetter wrote:

It's really not a debate. It's more of a wanting for you..

You want me? Please be female.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

A debate would be based on something that is "necessary". Marijuana isn't necessary. Sure, there could be benefits to marijuana. I believe that everything can be for a good thing... but if that's what it's used for... then sobeit. Otherwise, it's not an argument. "...

You're losing me...
There isn't much in this world that's necessary.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Hmmm.... probably not even fairly close... and as I've said, I'm sure it's a great debate but.... is that a good reason to legalize marijuana? Is marijuana, or the "war on drugs", the only discrepencies that we find in our corrupt governments? I think these are all justifications that people try to use just for their benefit. Like.... legalizing marijuana. simply cause they wanna get high.

YES IT'S A GOOD REASON! Watch Grass, i'm tellin ya...I'll send it to you. The money is astronomical! you would have such better facilities, programs, out patient support, equipment, everything!
I think the hugs not drugs approach you're projecting is a justification for not giving a shit about anyone that smokes pot! You are sidestepping the issues...

deadnothingbetter wrote:

No, I don't necessarily believe that smokers should go to jail... but the law will always be the law. That's something that we can't ignore. .

The law will NOT always be the law, that's the whole point to all of this! Marijuana wasn't always illegal, and it doesnt always have to be.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Whether be a dem or rep... it's good to know that laws can serve to protect us... and as a good democrat might know... the more gov't, the better... .

good one.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

But if you want to hear my opinion... smokers should go through some kind of detox trial in order to shove their brains out of their potheaded ideas that marijuana isn't really necessary.

That's your opinion? are you sure you don't do drugs?

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I never said you said that. It was a rhetorical question. I understand your perspective... and believe me... I'm not against that point-of-view... but look at my point-of-view for a change. .

Honestly, I don't understand your point of view...the little that I do, I find completely unrealistic.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Based on the ever-surpassingly excessive experiences of mine... marijuana can make your perceptions a little, mind you, bad. You need to go for at least a day in my job to see where I'm coming from.

I understand your job is probably heart breaking and at times exasperating...but as I keep saying, the people that are forming your opinion on this are the exception to the rule and hardly a reason to continue prohibition.

Drowned Out

wtf, my comp keeps freezing, then double posting....other sites work fine :?

deadnothingbetter

Drowned Out wrote:

ah, yes...utopia. of course.
you said yourself that people will abuse them either way...that's why it becomes a healthcare issue, as well as a political one.

so?????

What if my personal and spiritual plan involves marijuana, and I have no interest in your plan? Where does that leave us? It's ok for me to be persecuted for my personal and spiritual plan?

i never said you didn't have a choice... allbeit, if that's what you wanna do then go for it yo

You're right, it doesn't matter what's worse for you...it's your body.

i don't get it

I never said all better. Even a little better is...better

You want me? Please be female.

it's only the potheads that make ridiculous jokes like this one... and it's only them that think it's funny. seriously tho... couldn't you have thought of a better joke? you could've at least said, "you're gay" although, which I'm not. but still would of been funnier

You're losing me...
There isn't much in this world that's necessary.

then why do you want weed to be legalized?

YES IT'S A GOOD REASON! Watch Grass, i'm tellin ya...I'll send it to you. The money is astronomical! you would have such better facilities, programs, out patient support, equipment, everything!
I think the hugs not drugs approach you're projecting is a justification for not giving a shit about anyone that smokes pot! You are sidestepping the issues...

sorry dude... i'm not into those hippie films... and also i'm not gay...j/k however, i don't have a plan... i don't have an agenda called "hugs not drugs"... or whatever... i'm basing it completely on first-hand experiences... not on politics... not on religion... just experiences and i've concluded that based on those many, as you mentioned, exasperating experiences life is better without drugs.

The law will NOT always be the law, that's the whole point to all of this! Marijuana wasn't always illegal, and it doesnt always have to be.

splittin hairs again... while it is the law, then it is the law. in any way, i don't care, cause like i said... i don't care if it's legal or illegal... didn't i say that earlier pothead? (now that's a funny joke) what i do think is insanely moronic is people who try to propogate stupid ideas like yours just so they can legalize weed. i feel like i'm going round and round (hate to be frank but that's the way i feel about it)

good one.

:cool:

That's your opinion? are you sure you don't do drugs?

so, i guess we'll rule your opinions out since you're obviously on drugs.

Honestly, I don't understand your point of view...the little that I do, I find completely unrealistic.

ok, all i'm saying is that it's not necessary to legalize drugs (weed)... and what's even more important is that life will actually be better without it.

I understand your job is probably heart breaking and at times exasperating...but as I keep saying, the people that are forming your opinion on this are the exception to the rule and hardly a reason to continue prohibition.

is this your professional opinion or your (edit: "under the influece") opinion? cause i've heard professional opinions and they don't sound anything like yours.

Drowned Out

I still say you're avoiding the issues, but I'm tiring of this...

You are saying that you don't care that the status quo doesn't work and is rife with corruption...and you don't think it needs to be changed.

you are tired of seeing people coming in to your work with their lives in tatters because of drugs, but when I tell you there's a better way to help them, you dismiss it as unnecessary.

You call MY ideas stupid, but offer no solutions to the problem, except to say, "life is better without drugs".

Then you continue to degenerate into insults, partisan BS, gay jokes, etc....
I know you're trying to be funny, but it's telling.

deadnothingbetter

Drowned Out wrote:

I still say you're avoiding the issues, but I'm tiring of this...

You are saying that you don't care that the status quo doesn't work and is rife with corruption...and you don't think it needs to be changed.

you are tired of seeing people coming in to your work with their lives in tatters because of drugs, but when I tell you there's a better way to help them, you dismiss it as unnecessary.

You call MY ideas stupid, but offer no solutions to the problem, except to say, "life is better without drugs".

Then you continue to degenerate into insults, partisan BS, gay jokes, etc....
I know you're trying to be funny, but it's telling.

I never said anything about the status quo... I think you're the one that's dismissing my perspective. I've already made it clear with you on that part. I said it's a great debate and would love to have that aspect of our american society changed, but marijuana isn't the only and main propogator of the issue.

If you have a better way of helping these people out, please, knock yourself out. There are millions of doctors who work in this line of work and these patients don't seem to get better. If you do have a solution I'd be glad to hear it. Oh, wait, I forgot... let them smoke weed. Or am I missing something... I don't remember you offering a solution to help these mental health patients. What I do remember is that if weed is going to be legalized for the chronically ill patient then it is justifiable. Like the other guy said, all in moderation.

I offered no solutions to what problem? The original problem was the possibility of marijuana increasing psychosis. Yeah, I don't have a solution. I'm not a doctor. Except that I know how to help avoid it altogether. Don't do drugs!

I only went into the insults because of the tone of your last post... pot speaking to kettle here.

edit: I hope I didn't come off as derogatory on my "gay" jokes... it wasn't meant like that... but you have to admit I was funnier than you :cool:

Drowned Out

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I never said anything about the status quo... I think you're the one that's dismissing my perspective. I've already made it clear with you on that part. I said it's a great debate and would love to have that aspect of our american society changed, but marijuana isn't the only and main propogator of the issue.

What is your perspective tho? That the world is better without drugs?
Maybe you're suggesting that we need to change the way people think about drugs, educate them...I can agree with that. I think our textbooks would read a touch differently, but I agree. Maybe I still don't get you at all...

deadnothingbetter wrote:

If you have a better way of helping these people out, please, knock yourself out.

I do. Give the money we are wasting now to healthcare and education.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

There are millions of doctors who work in this line of work and these patients don't seem to get better. If you do have a solution I'd be glad to hear it.

They don't get better because the programs are garbage and run by people that are stressed, underfunded, probably overworked, etc. etc....I'd like to see the success numbers for public substance abuse and mental health care, as compared to the success numbers for Betty Ford and all the country club places and private hospitals...
I'm too tired to look for links, but I bet I could prove that over the last 30 years, you could have turned every public treatment center into a Betty Ford and treated thousands more patients with all that wasted money.
and....
I do. Give the money we are wasting now to healthcare and education.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Oh, wait, I forgot... let them smoke weed. Or am I missing something... I don't remember you offering a solution to help these mental health patients.

I did. Give the money we are wasting now to healthcare and education. I've already made it clear with you on that part.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

What I do remember is that if weed is going to be legalized for the chronically ill patient then it is justifiable.

It IS legalized in many states, for medicinal purposes. But your federal government keeps arresting the patients and providers!

deadnothingbetter wrote:

I offered no solutions to what problem? The original problem was the possibility of marijuana increasing psychosis. Yeah, I don't have a solution. I'm not a doctor.

we got way beyond the psychosis thing. you are totally talking in circles. you should feel like you're going round and round.

about the insults - if you look back, I was matching your tone quote for quote (or trying to).
sure, you're funnier