I like Obama

245

Comments

  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abuskedti wrote:
    and will proudly vote for him


    i think that is awesome!


    I believe he is legit, and will proudly vote for him as well
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    raszputini wrote:
    Can't disagree with you Abuskedti. There's much to be said for intuition, and I agree there are no easy solutions. We are in a time that has no model or roadmap. Our difference lies in our gut instincts. Mine suggests Obama is, to quote some author somewhere, "like a minor league pitcher that finds himself starting Game 7 of the World Series in his first Major League start". He could be lightning in a bottle, or he could be waaay over his head and history suggests the latter. Obama reminds me a lot of Carter, and my gut tells me that we can't afford the mistakes he will likely make.

    "Intuition, like the rays of the sun, acts only in an inflexibly straight line; it can guess right only on condition of never diverting its gaze; the freaks of chance disturb it."
    -Honore De Balzac

    "Rookie pitcher in game 7" That's just another angle the other side is using. Correct me if I am wrong, McCain is old, but he has never been President either. They are both rookies.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abuskedti wrote:
    I just like HIM :)

    I like his approach, I like that he thinks. I like what he says. This is a huge ship moving pretty fast. Its not easy to turn. There are no easy answers. No simple solutions. No "correct" policies. Everything is interconnected - everything is right in some ways and wrong in others.

    I like him because he is thinking and doesn't pretend that there are simple solutions.

    guess I can only go with my intuition since there is not truth to review.

    right on brother... i used the same large ship analogy a few days ago somewhere... you gotta start turning the wheel at some point to turn this big fucker in the right direction
  • raszputini
    raszputini Posts: 119
    Sorry I have so much to say, but damn guys - stop listening to sound bites and research these candidates.

    Obama is a three year Senator who did very little, before that he was a lawyer for a few years and worked as a volunteer.

    McCain has 20 years of legislative experience, both Senate and House and has chaired multiple Senate Committees (which is executive-like). Before that he was the military liaison to the Senate.

    Neither have been President, but their job training is very, very different

    Obama says 16 months, and no matter what - we'll be out of Iraq. At least that became his story mid - Primary. However in the fall and winter (just a few months prior) his story was.....

    "Obama repeatedly said that he wanted to be "as careful getting out as we were careless getting in" and reassured voters that the withdrawal would take time, would be careful and take humanitarian and security concerns into consideration and that it could take up to two and half to three years."
    (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/21/596680.aspx)

    That would be as late as 2012.

    16 month withdrawal is nothing more than a campaign LIE. To win the Democratic Primary, he had to be the guy that brings the troops home first. He made these changes in policy without visiting Iraq or talking with anyone with any first hand knowledge of what is happening.

    Read that quote and compare it with McCain's policy - which is nearly IDENTICAL.

    "On Iraq, McCain's goal is that by 2013 most of the servicemen and women will have returned, the Iraq War will have been won, and Iraq will be a functioning democracy, "although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension." McCain expects that by 2013, there will still be violence, but at a much-reduced level, and without American troops in a direct combat role."

    Obama says by the end of 2012, McCain says by 2013? Then, Obama shifted his position out of political opportunism.

    McCain makes that judgement with a military background, after 6 visits on the ground in Iraq in the past two years and multiple meetings with Petraeus and the Iraqi government. Obama makes his by thinking it would win him the Primary, and it did.

    We want out. The Iraqis want us out. But why is a specific timetable the issue? Isn''t the most important thing not be forced to go back?

    Here's Obama really articulating his position back in late 2007. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwgjYMw310U).

    He says he'll pull troops out in 16 months - but leave behind troops for security and to carry out targeted strikes against Al-Qaeda. Doesn't say how many get pulled out, how many stay - but there will certainly be troops there after 16 months. How is that really different from McCain?

    Now everyone thinks Obama brings the troops home in 16 months becasue he keeps saying and no one looks past the rhetoric.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Obama's New World Order

    :D:D:D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    raszputini wrote:
    Sorry I have so much to say, but damn guys - stop listening to sound bites and research these candidates.

    Obama is a three year Senator who did very little, before that he was a lawyer for a few years and worked as a volunteer.

    you should follow your own advice.

    a lawyer for "a few years"? and worked as a volunteer? what does that even mean?

    barack obama has worked:

    for business international corporation
    for NY PIRG
    as a community organizer (director of the developing communities project)
    as editor then president of the harvard law review (not paid)
    as a writer of 2 books
    for illinois project vote
    as a constitutional law lecturer (FOR 12 YEARS)
    as an attorney for civil rights and neighborhood economic development
    on various boards
    in the illinois state legislature, served as chairman of the HHS committee
    as a US senator
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    you should follow your own advice.

    a lawyer for "a few years"? and worked as a volunteer? what does that even mean?

    barack obama has worked:

    for business international corporation
    for NY PIRG
    as a community organizer (director of the developing communities project)
    as editor then president of the harvard law review (not paid)
    as a writer of 2 books
    for illinois project vote
    as a constitutional law lecturer (FOR 12 YEARS)
    as an attorney for civil rights and neighborhood economic development
    on various boards
    in the illinois state legislature, served as chairman of the HHS committee
    as a US senator

    But his actual accomplishments are slim

    various boards and positions aren't much without actions/activist work and acheivements to go along with them. It comes off more like 'various' shit to put on a resume.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    raszputini wrote:
    Sorry I have so much to say, but damn guys - stop listening to sound bites and research these candidates.

    Obama is a three year Senator who did very little, before that he was a lawyer for a few years and worked as a volunteer.

    McCain has 20 years of legislative experience, both Senate and House and has chaired multiple Senate Committees (which is executive-like). Before that he was the military liaison to the Senate.

    Neither have been President, but their job training is very, very different

    Obama says 16 months, and no matter what - we'll be out of Iraq. At least that became his story mid - Primary. However in the fall and winter (just a few months prior) his story was.....

    "Obama repeatedly said that he wanted to be "as careful getting out as we were careless getting in" and reassured voters that the withdrawal would take time, would be careful and take humanitarian and security concerns into consideration and that it could take up to two and half to three years."
    (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/21/596680.aspx)

    That would be as late as 2012.

    16 month withdrawal is nothing more than a campaign LIE. To win the Democratic Primary, he had to be the guy that brings the troops home first. He made these changes in policy without visiting Iraq or talking with anyone with any first hand knowledge of what is happening.

    Read that quote and compare it with McCain's policy - which is nearly IDENTICAL.

    "On Iraq, McCain's goal is that by 2013 most of the servicemen and women will have returned, the Iraq War will have been won, and Iraq will be a functioning democracy, "although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension." McCain expects that by 2013, there will still be violence, but at a much-reduced level, and without American troops in a direct combat role."

    Obama says by the end of 2012, McCain says by 2013? Then, Obama shifted his position out of political opportunism.

    McCain makes that judgement with a military background, after 6 visits on the ground in Iraq in the past two years and multiple meetings with Petraeus and the Iraqi government. Obama makes his by thinking it would win him the Primary, and it did.

    We want out. The Iraqis want us out. But why is a specific timetable the issue? Isn''t the most important thing not be forced to go back?

    Here's Obama really articulating his position back in late 2007. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwgjYMw310U).

    He says he'll pull troops out in 16 months - but leave behind troops for security and to carry out targeted strikes against Al-Qaeda. Doesn't say how many get pulled out, how many stay - but there will certainly be troops there after 16 months. How is that really different from McCain?

    Now everyone thinks Obama brings the troops home in 16 months becasue he keeps saying and no one looks past the rhetoric.


    Every time I ask for some real differences in their policies especially foreign it gets real quiet.

    They just 'believe' that Obama is going to be so much better but have nothing but intuition to back this up. I'm a firm believer in intuition myself but I'm not going to ignore what's right in front of my face to put blind faith in a politician who has done absolutely nothing to deserve it. That goes one step beyond illogical.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • raszputini
    raszputini Posts: 119
    Thanks for listing such an extensive list of his accomplishments.

    "for business international corporation"

    Obama wrote a newsletters for overseas companies for less than a year in an organization that some call a "sweatshop", it was more of an internship than a job. Employees called it “high school with ashtrays.”
    http (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92337754)

    "for NY PIRG"
    This was as a non-profit organizer with a 10K stipend

    "as a community organizer (director of the developing communities project)

    Also as a nonprofit organizer. You know when you have no experience you figure out ways to make one job seem like many on your resume. I did that when I was 21.

    as editor then president of the harvard law review (not paid)
    Certainly an honor. Obama was obviously a good student and can write.

    as a writer of 2 books
    Again....great. He can write. So can Steven King. No one gave a shit about his books until he ran for President.

    for illinois project vote
    Again, a community organizer. Cool.

    as a constitutional law lecturer (FOR 12 YEARS)
    He has a degree. In law. I said that. He practiced for three years, before that he went to school. After that he stuck around and taught some classes while he figured out what he wanted to do. During this time period he also did a lot of non-profit stuff that is listed here mulitiple times as well.

    as an attorney for civil rights and neighborhood economic development
    I said that.

    on various boards
    What does this mean?

    in the illinois state legislature, served as chairman of the HHS committee
    This is true, for less than a year and while he was campaigning for US Senate. Keep in mind that this is STATE Legislature. My uncle Louie is a state senator.

    as a US senator
    For three lazy years.


    Obama is DEFINITELY qualified to be a junior partner at a law firm, he could work at a magazine, and he could run the Boys & Girls Club. What qualifies him to be President. And let's go with "experience" or "accomplishments", not guesses, intuition or "you just got a good feeling."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    right on brother... i used the same large ship analogy a few days ago somewhere... you gotta start turning the wheel at some point to turn this big fucker in the right direction


    How do you see Obama as turning this ship in the right direction? What has he done to make you believe this?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    raszputini wrote:

    as a US senator
    For three lazy years.

    Exactly
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Every time I ask for some real differences in their policies especially foreign it gets real quiet.

    They just 'believe' that Obama is going to be so much better but have nothing but intuition to back this up. I'm a firm believer in intuition myself but I'm not going to ignore what's right in front of my face to put blind faith in a politician who has done absolutely nothing to deserve it. That goes one step beyond illogical.

    Sen. John McCain Opposes Family Planning

    * John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
    * John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
    * John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception. 3

    Sen. Barack Obama Supports Family Planning

    * Barack Obama authored legislation to fix the birth-control pricing crisis facing millions of low-income women and students across the country. 4
    * Barack Obama has voted in favor of funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 5
    * Barack Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, a package of proposals that increases funds for family-planning services, makes sure that health insurance plans cover birth control if they cover other prescription medication, and improves women’s ability to get emergency contraception. 6

    http://www.naral.org/elections/obama-or-mccain-fp.html
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • anotherclone
    anotherclone Posts: 1,688
    I'm so sick of people saying Obama hasn't done "anything".

    And I totally agree with the ship analogy. I also liken it to a failing business that brings in new management to right things. Sometimes someone that has been in business thinks they know what to do, but when the times are-a-changing, you have to bring in new blood.

    Here is a link to some information regarding his State Senate accomplishments:

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/29/us/politics/20070730_OBAMA_GRAPHIC.html

    I have his Federal accomplishments bookmarked and I will cut and paste it in a sec...
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    Sen. John McCain Opposes Family Planning

    * John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
    * John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
    * John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception. 3

    Sen. Barack Obama Supports Family Planning

    * Barack Obama authored legislation to fix the birth-control pricing crisis facing millions of low-income women and students across the country. 4
    * Barack Obama has voted in favor of funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 5
    * Barack Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, a package of proposals that increases funds for family-planning services, makes sure that health insurance plans cover birth control if they cover other prescription medication, and improves women’s ability to get emergency contraception. 6

    http://www.naral.org/elections/obama-or-mccain-fp.html


    There is waaaay too much fucked up shit I see in BOTH of these guys for me to be appeased by this issue. Sorry.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Obama's New World Order

    :D:D:D

    you have alot of time on your2hands ;)
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Obama's New World Order

    :D:D:D


    ddue really...

    alex jones is a complete joke... he has way too many scared white computer nerds taking his word and hysteria as gospel

    i do not know how anyone can listen to that obvious clown longer then 30 seconds :rolleyes:

    i mean seriously? am i missing something here?
  • anotherclone
    anotherclone Posts: 1,688
    From the library of congress

    http://thomas.loc.gov/

    click on browse bills by sponsor and a drop down will appear, just highlight his name. Enjoy the list.

    Can we "drop" the experience argument and the "lazy" comments and just simply say "I'm not going to vote for him"? I don't even need an excuse from you. A simple, "Gee Jenny...I think I'm going to go a different way this year" will suffice.
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    callen wrote:
    30 Billion=a few weeks in Iraq


    Which is something I also balk at but isn't my point. I don't believe people should be coerced into funding an international organization through taxation.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    my2hands wrote:
    ddue really...

    alex jones is a complete joke... he has way too many scared white computer nerds taking his word and hysteria as gospel

    i do not know how anyone can listen to that obvious clown longer then 30 seconds :rolleyes:

    i mean seriously? am i missing something here?

    Yeah.
    Apparently you don't understand the devastation that status-quo politics has wreaked upon sovereignty and the future of the republic.

    In case you haven't noticed the Welfare State is a failed ideal, and yet Obama and ALL mainstream politicians still embrace and want to EXPAND it.

    Like i said, if you get past the hysteria,
    what he actually talks about on a daily basis are these type of issues -- ie. how the corrupt elitist iteration of "globalism" is really nothing more than the death of American sovereignty, and the sacrifice of the American public's pocket book to further private imperialist goals.

    In case you haven't noticed Obama has no problems being an apologist for the "globalist" ideology. And as great and practical and "inevitable" as it sounds, if you look at what the real propositions are, they are anathema to everything America is supposed to stand for.

    But i guess none of that is of concern to you,
    and you view them as "fringe" issues?

    ???

    [ps- the vid only took me 2 hours, if that]
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    VictoryGin wrote:
    you beat me to it. :)

    i was thinking someone could fathom new spending by ending obvious horrible ginormous spending, such as the war in iraq. they could also end less ginormous spending such as the over 1.5 billion we've pumped into abstinence-only education. they could also fathom it by saving tons by modernizing records systems and making them electronic, for example.

    Or they could end the ginormous spending that America funnels all over the world and maybe focus on the problems domestically. I'm not talk dollar for dollar here because if we were to just put all that money that we pump overseas into American endeavors, we'd still be inflating the money supply.

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