Every time I ask for some real differences in their policies especially foreign it gets real quiet.
They just 'believe' that Obama is going to be so much better but have nothing but intuition to back this up. I'm a firm believer in intuition myself but I'm not going to ignore what's right in front of my face to put blind faith in a politician who has done absolutely nothing to deserve it. That goes one step beyond illogical.
Sen. John McCain Opposes Family Planning
* John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
* John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
* John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception. 3
Sen. Barack Obama Supports Family Planning
* Barack Obama authored legislation to fix the birth-control pricing crisis facing millions of low-income women and students across the country. 4
* Barack Obama has voted in favor of funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 5
* Barack Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, a package of proposals that increases funds for family-planning services, makes sure that health insurance plans cover birth control if they cover other prescription medication, and improves women’s ability to get emergency contraception. 6
I'm so sick of people saying Obama hasn't done "anything".
And I totally agree with the ship analogy. I also liken it to a failing business that brings in new management to right things. Sometimes someone that has been in business thinks they know what to do, but when the times are-a-changing, you have to bring in new blood.
Here is a link to some information regarding his State Senate accomplishments:
* John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
* John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
* John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception. 3
Sen. Barack Obama Supports Family Planning
* Barack Obama authored legislation to fix the birth-control pricing crisis facing millions of low-income women and students across the country. 4
* Barack Obama has voted in favor of funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 5
* Barack Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, a package of proposals that increases funds for family-planning services, makes sure that health insurance plans cover birth control if they cover other prescription medication, and improves women’s ability to get emergency contraception. 6
click on browse bills by sponsor and a drop down will appear, just highlight his name. Enjoy the list.
Can we "drop" the experience argument and the "lazy" comments and just simply say "I'm not going to vote for him"? I don't even need an excuse from you. A simple, "Gee Jenny...I think I'm going to go a different way this year" will suffice.
Which is something I also balk at but isn't my point. I don't believe people should be coerced into funding an international organization through taxation.
alex jones is a complete joke... he has way too many scared white computer nerds taking his word and hysteria as gospel
i do not know how anyone can listen to that obvious clown longer then 30 seconds :rolleyes:
i mean seriously? am i missing something here?
Yeah.
Apparently you don't understand the devastation that status-quo politics has wreaked upon sovereignty and the future of the republic.
In case you haven't noticed the Welfare State is a failed ideal, and yet Obama and ALL mainstream politicians still embrace and want to EXPAND it.
Like i said, if you get past the hysteria,
what he actually talks about on a daily basis are these type of issues -- ie. how the corrupt elitist iteration of "globalism" is really nothing more than the death of American sovereignty, and the sacrifice of the American public's pocket book to further private imperialist goals.
In case you haven't noticed Obama has no problems being an apologist for the "globalist" ideology. And as great and practical and "inevitable" as it sounds, if you look at what the real propositions are, they are anathema to everything America is supposed to stand for.
But i guess none of that is of concern to you,
and you view them as "fringe" issues?
???
[ps- the vid only took me 2 hours, if that]
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i was thinking someone could fathom new spending by ending obvious horrible ginormous spending, such as the war in iraq. they could also end less ginormous spending such as the over 1.5 billion we've pumped into abstinence-only education. they could also fathom it by saving tons by modernizing records systems and making them electronic, for example.
Or they could end the ginormous spending that America funnels all over the world and maybe focus on the problems domestically. I'm not talk dollar for dollar here because if we were to just put all that money that we pump overseas into American endeavors, we'd still be inflating the money supply.
Yeah.
Apparently you don't understand the devastation that status-quo politics has wreaked upon sovereignty and the future of the republic.
In case you haven't noticed the Welfare State is a failed ideal, and yet Obama and ALL mainstream politicians still embrace and want to EXPAND it.
Like i said, if you get past the hysteria,
what he actually talks about on a daily basis are these type of issues -- ie. how the corrupt elitist iteration of "globalism" is really nothing more than the death of American sovereignty, and the sacrifice of the American public's pocket book to further private imperialist goals.
In case you haven't noticed Obama has no problems being an apologist for the "globalist" ideology. And as great and practical and "inevitable" as it sounds, if you look at what the real propositions are, they are anathema to everything America is supposed to stand for.
But i guess none of that is of concern to you,
and you view them as "fringe" issues?
I like his approach, I like that he thinks. I like what he says. This is a huge ship moving pretty fast. Its not easy to turn. There are no easy answers. No simple solutions. No "correct" policies. Everything is interconnected - everything is right in some ways and wrong in others.
I like him because he is thinking and doesn't pretend that there are simple solutions.
guess I can only go with my intuition since there is not truth to review.
Listen to him with an open mind.
I respect both men and am willing to listen. It's going to take cooperation to get the country back on track and where we should be.
Obama has spent the past 3-4 years of his life planning a Presidential run. He is smart and opportunistic. The book releases were designed to be a fund raiser that bypassed normal campaign contribution regulations. Don't want a donation trail? Buy a shitload of books. His Senate history is lazy and vanilla. Three years of ducking votes and voting "Present" and not taking a position on anything. It's pretty smart. This allows him to shift his position on everything. From the beginning of the Primaries on he has shifted his position on Iraq, free trade, NAFTA, nuclear energy, Iran, standards for negotiating with foreign powers, and today, after finding out that most Americans support McCain's position on offshore drilling....he shifts his position on offshore drilling.
Here's what he said on June 14th...
“If offshore drilling would provide short-term relief at the pump or a long-term strategy for energy independence, it would be worthy of our consideration, regardless of the risks. But most experts, even within the Bush Administration, concede it would do neither. It would merely prolong the failed energy policies we have seen from Washington for thirty years,” Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said.
Here's what he said today, after the polls indicated that McCain was gaining in swing states because of his pro-drilling position...
Sen. Barack Obama suggested he could accept an expansion of offshore oil drilling today if it is in a broader package of energy measures that would free the logjam on energy bills in Congress.
There are very few Obama policies and platforms that haven't changed with the polls. I'll be to show ANY of you VIDEO FOOTAGE of this guy saying one thing to one crowd and then another contradictory statement to another on virtually every position he has. It isn't difficult to find at all. But first you've got to get rid of the smile and warm fuzzy feeling and use your brain as a critical thinking tool. This guy is a demogogue - a charismatic rhetorician that is LYING to you, and it is VERY easy to see that, but you've got to stop being a passive consumer of what the networks are forcefeeding you.
The only person on this thread that has said really anything substantive about why they like Obama that isn't based around falsehoods and soundbytes is VictoryGin. Family Planning isn't a super significant issue to me, but that's my opinion. It obviously is to VictoryGin. Cool. That's a rational, issues-based choice, and Obama has been fairly consistent on that issue. I got no beef with that, I just respectfully disagree.
supreme court nominations....forget all the rhetoric..campaign promises etc etc....it all comes down to who's interpreting the constitution...and I'll place my bets on Obama over McCain.[/QUOT
Thats exactly while I place my Bets with McCain. Obama would prob. nominate Rev. Wright
How can you back someone who supports Israel as much as he does? I mean unless of course you support Israel that much yourself.
I mean he openly supports a country that is daily hurting/killing another people with a brutal occupation. Then he claims to be fair and = and that he has good policy ideas and knows how to solve problems.
You are really proud to support that man? or the dark knight I should refer to him as. And it's not just that you support him because he's the lesser of two evils (which would be bad enough) but you really think he's good and has good politics. Yet his politics are so close to..well. He's not much change. But a good speaker for sure.
There is waaaay too much fucked up shit I see in BOTH of these guys for me to be appeased by this issue. Sorry.
you asked and i provided. this certainly isn't the only issue on which they differ. but no matter how much i or anyone would post it wouldn't matter with you.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
How can you back someone who supports Israel as much as he does? I mean unless of course you support Israel that much yourself.
I mean he openly supports a country that is daily hurting/killing another people with a brutal occupation. Then he claims to be fair and = and that he has good policy ideas and knows how to solve problems.
You are really proud to support that man? or the dark knight I should refer to him as. And it's not just that you support him because he's the lesser of two evils (which would be bad enough) but you really think he's good and has good politics. Yet his politics are so close to..well. He's not much change. But a good speaker for sure.
most people here don't bother explaining how they can support someone like Obama who supports Israel as much as he does. do you guys support Israel as much as he does? do you agree with him giving ALL of Jerusalem to Israel? do you agree with him when he said the Palestinians suffer as a result of them and NOT from the Israeli occupation? do you agree with him when he thinks funding the Israeli "defense" budget is fine? do you agree with the no talks policy on hamas?
please, explain that to me.
do you guys agreep ushing tougher sanctions on Iran BEFORE we begin talks with them? do you guys agree with keepign military option on the table when there is NO proof that Iran's nuclear program is for weapons? do you guys agree that Iran's nuclear program is "illegal"?
do you agree with this so-called "compromise" FISA which he voted for? do you agree with the PATRIOT ACT? do you agree with giving blank checks to Bush for Iraq? do you agree with appointing Condolezza Rice as secretary of state?
please, someone fucking answer these questions for me. all you guys have said so far is that he's charming and shit, well what the fuck, just because he's smart doesn't mean fuck. dick cheney was a smart man, look where he got us. being smart means dick if your policies suck.
And yet Ralph Nader accomplished more than Obama ever has.
what was your point again?
Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
Vote for whoever you want. It isn't my gig to tell you to do otherwise. As for me, i'll be casting my first presidential vote in almost 20 years for Barack Obama. And, i'll be doing it proudly, confidently, informed, and with conviction.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
Vote for whoever you want. It isn't my gig to tell you to do otherwise. As for me, i'll be casting my first presidential vote in almost 20 years for Barack Obama. And, i'll be doing it proudly, confidently, informed, and with conviction.
this whole "vote for whoever you want" thing is getting ridiculous. this is a message board to DISCUSS why we're voting for someone. if you don't like us discussing and debating this stuff then that's fine, but you shouldn't complain about it.
you seem proud of your supporting Barack Obama. Great. Do you mind explaining it though? or maybe answering these questions?
I understandi f they're a bit intimidating. after all, EXPLAINING why you support your candidate is usually hard for Obama supporters...
most people here don't bother explaining how they can support someone like Obama who supports Israel as much as he does.
He has to openly support Israel because the banker and lawyer lobby is part of what is bankrolling him, another reason why his "soak the rich" rhetoric is shit.
do you agree with this so-called "compromise" FISA which he voted for? do you agree with the PATRIOT ACT? do you agree with giving blank checks to Bush for Iraq? do you agree with appointing Condolezza Rice as secretary of state?
But I thought Obama was AGAINST the Patriot Act? Most of his supporters seem to think that because of the image he is trying to project.
please, someone fucking answer these questions for me. all you guys have said so far is that he's charming and shit, well what the fuck, just because he's smart doesn't mean fuck. dick cheney was a smart man, look where he got us. being smart means dick if your policies suck.
this whole "vote for whoever you want" thing is getting ridiculous. this is a message board to DISCUSS why we're voting for someone. if you don't like us discussing and debating this stuff then that's fine, but you shouldn't complain about it.
you seem proud of your supporting Barack Obama. Great. Do you mind explaining it though? or maybe answering these questions?
I understandi f they're a bit intimidating. after all, EXPLAINING why you support your candidate is usually hard for Obama supporters...
Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous to suggest people vote for who they want. What was i thinking?
And what happens here is not discussion or debate. One person is all like "i'm voting for Obama". And then someone else is all like "You're a sheep dude". And then someone else is all like "Obama worships Hitler, man"
Quality debate indeed. :rolleyes:
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
this whole "vote for whoever you want" thing is getting ridiculous. this is a message board to DISCUSS why we're voting for someone. if you don't like us discussing and debating this stuff then that's fine, but you shouldn't complain about it.
you seem proud of your supporting Barack Obama. Great. Do you mind explaining it though? or maybe answering these questions?
I understandi f they're a bit intimidating. after all, EXPLAINING why you support your candidate is usually hard for Obama supporters...
I cant believe no one wants to explain anything to you as irate as you get on here. There is nothing any Obama supporter could say that would satisfy you anyway so why do you ACT like you give a shit about their decisions? Save all the "its a message board to discuss things" bullshit, you're not fooling anyone.
There is nothing any Obama supporter could say that would satisfy you anyway so why do you ACT like you give a shit about their decisions? .
Because a wrong decision in this political matter impacts everyone. So if someone is making a bad choice, yes people should care. esp if you are living in the same country.
this whole "vote for whoever you want" thing is getting ridiculous. this is a message board to DISCUSS why we're voting for someone. if you don't like us discussing and debating this stuff then that's fine, but you shouldn't complain about it.
you seem proud of your supporting Barack Obama. Great. Do you mind explaining it though? or maybe answering these questions?
I understandi f they're a bit intimidating. after all, EXPLAINING why you support your candidate is usually hard for Obama supporters...
Those questions are about as intimidating as a Cockapoo puppy. If you honestly believe that Obama supporters can't explain why they support him than you are even more ignorant and naive than you come across in your angry post.
Further back and forth a wave will break on me, today...
Because a wrong decision in this political matter impacts everyone. So if someone is making a bad choice, yes people should care. esp if you are living in the same country.
just my thoughts on that.
I agree with your statement. However, i dont believe he is open to any thought other than those who support Obama are just wrong which is why i was addressing Outlaw specifically with that statement.
I just read that outlaw is actually Byrnzie so it all makes sense anyway.
I could be satisfied by a reasoned explanation. I don't like ANY of the candidates. I'm LOOKING for a reason to like SOMEONE. I'm for McCain at this point simply because, in my opinion, his ability and propensity to fuck things up even worse than they already are far less than Obama's, and because of our elitist and corporate-owned political system, those are the only viable choices now.
Even though I followed along like a junky, I really didn't start talking much about this election until a few weeks ago, and quite a bit has been on this board. I keep chatting with more and more very firm and very proud Obama supporters. It's intriguing to me because I can't really see anything to be firm and proud about with ANY of the candidates. So, I want to know why. Then I get a vague, general, but very confident and positive response - "I really feel like he's the guy to make the big and creative changes we need right now." Something like that. I'll probe further - I'm more of a detail guy, an issue guy. Big picture-vision is certainly important, but to me that big picture is made up of a lot of little ones that you only see when you get up close. Usually at that point the person gets pissed off at me and says something like "You vote for who want", or "Nothing I say will matter to you", or some other conversation ender. There have been some exceptions - in most cases, people that are referred to as "single-issue voters", things like abortion, gay rights, capital punishment, immigration policy, education,etc. Obama has fairly well-articulated positions on some of these issues and in some cases has been very consistent on them. Cool. That makes sense to me. I have different issue priorities and therein lies our difference, and that's why we all get to vote.
I was a college debater and coached for a few years afterwards years ago, but I still get off on talking to people and crystallizing our differences on issues I think are important. I feel like it helps me better articulate my own opinions and know why I have them, and I think that's pretty important.
It's been a pretty unusual experience talking with folks about Obama. It's really similar to talking about religious differences. There comes that point where it is impossible to talk anymore, because a debate is a rational, logic-based excercise and religion is not. It is faith-based.
Too me, that makes Barack Obama a very scary individual. While there are some of you out there that seem to be making an informed and critical choice, it seems like a very high percentage are not. I say that simply because of my experiences. If you are a well-informed, issue-oriented Obama supporter, then don't get pissed at me - I'm not talking to you. You've obviously dug into this election, not relied solely on mainstream media, set your priorities and made a rational decision. No matter who that choice may be.
But if you can't at least provide one important issue in which you know what your candidate's position REALLY is, and that you agree with, then you are letting everyone around you down and abusing your right to vote. This isn't deciding who you think "The Bachelorette" should fuck, or which American Idol contestant should win.
"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. "
Comments
Exactly
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Sen. John McCain Opposes Family Planning
* John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
* John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
* John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception. 3
Sen. Barack Obama Supports Family Planning
* Barack Obama authored legislation to fix the birth-control pricing crisis facing millions of low-income women and students across the country. 4
* Barack Obama has voted in favor of funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 5
* Barack Obama was an original co-sponsor of the Prevention First Act, a package of proposals that increases funds for family-planning services, makes sure that health insurance plans cover birth control if they cover other prescription medication, and improves women’s ability to get emergency contraception. 6
http://www.naral.org/elections/obama-or-mccain-fp.html
cross the river to the eastside
And I totally agree with the ship analogy. I also liken it to a failing business that brings in new management to right things. Sometimes someone that has been in business thinks they know what to do, but when the times are-a-changing, you have to bring in new blood.
Here is a link to some information regarding his State Senate accomplishments:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/29/us/politics/20070730_OBAMA_GRAPHIC.html
I have his Federal accomplishments bookmarked and I will cut and paste it in a sec...
There is waaaay too much fucked up shit I see in BOTH of these guys for me to be appeased by this issue. Sorry.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you have alot of time on your2hands
ddue really...
alex jones is a complete joke... he has way too many scared white computer nerds taking his word and hysteria as gospel
i do not know how anyone can listen to that obvious clown longer then 30 seconds :rolleyes:
i mean seriously? am i missing something here?
http://thomas.loc.gov/
click on browse bills by sponsor and a drop down will appear, just highlight his name. Enjoy the list.
Can we "drop" the experience argument and the "lazy" comments and just simply say "I'm not going to vote for him"? I don't even need an excuse from you. A simple, "Gee Jenny...I think I'm going to go a different way this year" will suffice.
Which is something I also balk at but isn't my point. I don't believe people should be coerced into funding an international organization through taxation.
Yeah.
Apparently you don't understand the devastation that status-quo politics has wreaked upon sovereignty and the future of the republic.
In case you haven't noticed the Welfare State is a failed ideal, and yet Obama and ALL mainstream politicians still embrace and want to EXPAND it.
Like i said, if you get past the hysteria,
what he actually talks about on a daily basis are these type of issues -- ie. how the corrupt elitist iteration of "globalism" is really nothing more than the death of American sovereignty, and the sacrifice of the American public's pocket book to further private imperialist goals.
In case you haven't noticed Obama has no problems being an apologist for the "globalist" ideology. And as great and practical and "inevitable" as it sounds, if you look at what the real propositions are, they are anathema to everything America is supposed to stand for.
But i guess none of that is of concern to you,
and you view them as "fringe" issues?
???
[ps- the vid only took me 2 hours, if that]
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Or they could end the ginormous spending that America funnels all over the world and maybe focus on the problems domestically. I'm not talk dollar for dollar here because if we were to just put all that money that we pump overseas into American endeavors, we'd still be inflating the money supply.
you made the video? i should have known
Listen to him with an open mind.
I respect both men and am willing to listen. It's going to take cooperation to get the country back on track and where we should be.
I have faith in Obama and he has my vote!
Here's what he said on June 14th...
“If offshore drilling would provide short-term relief at the pump or a long-term strategy for energy independence, it would be worthy of our consideration, regardless of the risks. But most experts, even within the Bush Administration, concede it would do neither. It would merely prolong the failed energy policies we have seen from Washington for thirty years,” Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said.
(http://www.politicususa.com/en/Obama-Offshore-Statement)
Here's what he said today, after the polls indicated that McCain was gaining in swing states because of his pro-drilling position...
Sen. Barack Obama suggested he could accept an expansion of offshore oil drilling today if it is in a broader package of energy measures that would free the logjam on energy bills in Congress.
"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.
(http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/01/obama_opens_the_door_to_offsho.html)
There are very few Obama policies and platforms that haven't changed with the polls. I'll be to show ANY of you VIDEO FOOTAGE of this guy saying one thing to one crowd and then another contradictory statement to another on virtually every position he has. It isn't difficult to find at all. But first you've got to get rid of the smile and warm fuzzy feeling and use your brain as a critical thinking tool. This guy is a demogogue - a charismatic rhetorician that is LYING to you, and it is VERY easy to see that, but you've got to stop being a passive consumer of what the networks are forcefeeding you.
The only person on this thread that has said really anything substantive about why they like Obama that isn't based around falsehoods and soundbytes is VictoryGin. Family Planning isn't a super significant issue to me, but that's my opinion. It obviously is to VictoryGin. Cool. That's a rational, issues-based choice, and Obama has been fairly consistent on that issue. I got no beef with that, I just respectfully disagree.
I mean he openly supports a country that is daily hurting/killing another people with a brutal occupation. Then he claims to be fair and = and that he has good policy ideas and knows how to solve problems.
You are really proud to support that man? or the dark knight I should refer to him as. And it's not just that you support him because he's the lesser of two evils (which would be bad enough) but you really think he's good and has good politics. Yet his politics are so close to..well. He's not much change. But a good speaker for sure.
you asked and i provided. this certainly isn't the only issue on which they differ. but no matter how much i or anyone would post it wouldn't matter with you.
cross the river to the eastside
please, explain that to me.
do you guys agreep ushing tougher sanctions on Iran BEFORE we begin talks with them? do you guys agree with keepign military option on the table when there is NO proof that Iran's nuclear program is for weapons? do you guys agree that Iran's nuclear program is "illegal"?
do you agree with this so-called "compromise" FISA which he voted for? do you agree with the PATRIOT ACT? do you agree with giving blank checks to Bush for Iraq? do you agree with appointing Condolezza Rice as secretary of state?
please, someone fucking answer these questions for me. all you guys have said so far is that he's charming and shit, well what the fuck, just because he's smart doesn't mean fuck. dick cheney was a smart man, look where he got us. being smart means dick if your policies suck.
Three years as a US senator is three more years than Ralph Nader has spent as an elected official.
what was your point again?
Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
Vote for whoever you want. It isn't my gig to tell you to do otherwise. As for me, i'll be casting my first presidential vote in almost 20 years for Barack Obama. And, i'll be doing it proudly, confidently, informed, and with conviction.
you seem proud of your supporting Barack Obama. Great. Do you mind explaining it though? or maybe answering these questions?
I understandi f they're a bit intimidating. after all, EXPLAINING why you support your candidate is usually hard for Obama supporters...
Thank You.
And what happens here is not discussion or debate. One person is all like "i'm voting for Obama". And then someone else is all like "You're a sheep dude". And then someone else is all like "Obama worships Hitler, man"
Quality debate indeed. :rolleyes:
I cant believe no one wants to explain anything to you as irate as you get on here. There is nothing any Obama supporter could say that would satisfy you anyway so why do you ACT like you give a shit about their decisions? Save all the "its a message board to discuss things" bullshit, you're not fooling anyone.
Because a wrong decision in this political matter impacts everyone. So if someone is making a bad choice, yes people should care. esp if you are living in the same country.
just my thoughts on that.
I agree with your statement. However, i dont believe he is open to any thought other than those who support Obama are just wrong which is why i was addressing Outlaw specifically with that statement.
I just read that outlaw is actually Byrnzie so it all makes sense anyway.
Even though I followed along like a junky, I really didn't start talking much about this election until a few weeks ago, and quite a bit has been on this board. I keep chatting with more and more very firm and very proud Obama supporters. It's intriguing to me because I can't really see anything to be firm and proud about with ANY of the candidates. So, I want to know why. Then I get a vague, general, but very confident and positive response - "I really feel like he's the guy to make the big and creative changes we need right now." Something like that. I'll probe further - I'm more of a detail guy, an issue guy. Big picture-vision is certainly important, but to me that big picture is made up of a lot of little ones that you only see when you get up close. Usually at that point the person gets pissed off at me and says something like "You vote for who want", or "Nothing I say will matter to you", or some other conversation ender. There have been some exceptions - in most cases, people that are referred to as "single-issue voters", things like abortion, gay rights, capital punishment, immigration policy, education,etc. Obama has fairly well-articulated positions on some of these issues and in some cases has been very consistent on them. Cool. That makes sense to me. I have different issue priorities and therein lies our difference, and that's why we all get to vote.
I was a college debater and coached for a few years afterwards years ago, but I still get off on talking to people and crystallizing our differences on issues I think are important. I feel like it helps me better articulate my own opinions and know why I have them, and I think that's pretty important.
It's been a pretty unusual experience talking with folks about Obama. It's really similar to talking about religious differences. There comes that point where it is impossible to talk anymore, because a debate is a rational, logic-based excercise and religion is not. It is faith-based.
Too me, that makes Barack Obama a very scary individual. While there are some of you out there that seem to be making an informed and critical choice, it seems like a very high percentage are not. I say that simply because of my experiences. If you are a well-informed, issue-oriented Obama supporter, then don't get pissed at me - I'm not talking to you. You've obviously dug into this election, not relied solely on mainstream media, set your priorities and made a rational decision. No matter who that choice may be.
But if you can't at least provide one important issue in which you know what your candidate's position REALLY is, and that you agree with, then you are letting everyone around you down and abusing your right to vote. This isn't deciding who you think "The Bachelorette" should fuck, or which American Idol contestant should win.
"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. "
John F Kennedy