74 Dead In Baghdad

NCfan

Abuskedti wrote:

That is a reasonable question.

First, I don't agree that we are fighting for them not to kill each other - or that they are not attacking us. We have taken a side. and the fact is that the side we chose is the smallest side.. the vast majority of Iraq are currently "insurgents" which is a label we use as a bad word - almost equivalent to terrorist - when in fact it means the ones opposed to the government - which is the government we installed.

We have merely created a team and are supporting it just enough to keep it alive - but that side has no hope of winning the hearts of Iraqis..

This will never end if we continue to ignore what Iraqis want and to ignore the neighboring countries and cultures that exist in Iraq.

We are just perpetuating the tragedy.

What evidence do you have to support the idea that we are not fighting in Iraq for peace and stability?

know1

Byrnzie wrote:

Is that what i said? I'll need to re-read my post. I must have made a typo!

No - I gleaned that from a collective of your posts on various topics where you always blame religion...even if the topic has nothing to do with that.

Have you every considered that, to oppose something so unilaterally probably takes some level of brain washing as well?

NCfan

Abuskedti wrote:

Now picture an Iraqi occupation of Omaha.. Telling us to cover up our woman and praise Allah... and put our religious leaders in charge - as soon as we assinilate to the Iraq way - they will begin to withdraw troops..

We be building IEDs - hanging every Iraqi we could find -

They are just people...

You raise a good point here... let's picture an Iraqi occupation of Omaha. I seriously doubt that our American society would fracture along racial, poitical or socio-economic lines. More than likely, the citizens of Omaha would ban together and fight as one.... Christians side-by-side with Muslims, Jews... Blacks and Whites - rich and poor bound together becuase they are Americans above all else.

I doubt you would see the Iraqi's invade and all of a sudden the blacks go attack all the white becuase of slavery 150 years ago or Jim Crow for decades. Or Catholics go blow up Jewish business....

We are the ultimate melting pot of humans. Iraq really could learn something from our example ya know?

No we're not perfect, but who are the Iraqi's to crticize right?

Abuskedti

NCfan wrote:

Much agreed. Abuskedti seems to ingnore the fact that the percentage of criminals is very small compared to our overall population. Sure, that percentage would increase should law enforcement cease - but not enough to engulf our society in the turmoil of Iraq. That comparison is laughable...

As if most American's are jealous of the un-checked violence in Iraq, right Abuskedti? If we loved choas and killing so much, why don't we see a mass defection to countries where that is common-place? Fuck our cops ya know? If they are going to keep us down, then let's just skip down to Mexico where anything goes... As if our government is subjigating our people to be decent human beings, and we are just itching to rape somebody or go steal something but Uncle Sam might throw us in jail...

The reality is that the agenda of most Americans is to live a happy, peaceful, fullfilled life and contribute something towards the future. We like our society and though we disagree on many aspects and issues - most of us have learned to debate our diferernces peacefully and tolerate them as well.

We are simply too busy living life to go murder our neighbor becuase he's a different religion from me, or he's a Democrat and I'm a Republican. Those are the actions of desperate people, and most Americans aren't desperate. And if our police left, we wouldn't suddenly become desperate people.

I agree that there is a thin veneer to our society and civilization in general. Sure, there are certain events that would embroil our streets with stealing, murdering and rape. But we're talking aleins landing or an apocolyptic asteroid or something - Not our cops packing up shop.

our criminal element is low because we are constantly at war with them.. The courts are full the police are swamped - and yet much crime still occurs..

Take away the courts, the police and the military - which is sometimes needed, like the riots in Los Angeles for example..

with no protection - the criminal would rise to the top recruiting many you previously were sure wern't criminals - You for example...

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

Now picture an Iraqi occupation of Omaha.. Telling us to cover up our woman and praise Allah... and put our religious leaders in charge - as soon as we assinilate to the Iraq way - they will begin to withdraw troops..

We be building IEDs - hanging every Iraqi we could find -

They are just people...

But would we be going to markets where other Americans were shopping and blowing them up?

Abuskedti

NCfan wrote:

You raise a good point here... let's picture an Iraqi occupation of Omaha. I seriously doubt that our American society would fracture along racial, poitical or socio-economic lines. More than likely, the citizens of Omaha would ban together and fight as one.... Christians side-by-side with Muslims, Jews... Blacks and Whites - rich and poor bound together becuase they are Americans above all else.

I doubt you would see the Iraqi's invade and all of a sudden the blacks go attack all the white becuase of slavery 150 years ago or Jim Crow for decades. Or Catholics go blow up Jewish business....

We are the ultimate melting pot of humans. Iraq really could learn something from our example ya know?

No we're not perfect, but who are the Iraqi's to crticize right?

I don't see it exactly that way.. but close

What happened in Iraq is that some Iraqis went along with the invaders.. They are definately targets - and since there is no security in the streets - all accusations are word of mouth - then retaliations are inevidable due to mistaken accusations

Yes we would band, as one, against Iraqis.. and against americans siding with the iraqis... But if we continued to lose for years - tensions would mount and of course the criminals would rise - looting - raping -- and in time - we be in absolute chaos

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

But would we be going to markets where other Americans were shopping and blowing them up?

Just becuase we wouldn't do it exactly the same doesn't change anything.

There would be gangs... murderous gangs.. organized crime - without fear of justice..

it would be horrible.

It would be as bad as Iraq.

We did this and the only way to fix it - would be the only way the Iraqis could fix it if they invaded us..

They would have to trust that we could do it ourselves... And if they did, they would be correct

just as if we did, we'd be correct.

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

Just becuase we wouldn't do it exactly the same doesn't change anything.

There would be gangs... murderous gangs.. organized crime - without fear of justice..

it would be horrible.

It would be as bad as Iraq.

We did this and the only way to fix it - would be the only way the Iraqis could fix it if they invaded us..

They would have to trust that we could do it ourselves... And if they did, they would be correct

just as if we did, we'd be correct.

I do not defend or rationalize murderers of any kind.

miller8966

Abuskedti wrote:

I don't see it exactly that way.. but close

Not even plausible. American people will form their own police force and re-instate their own court system in a matter of weeks.

Also there would be no suicide bombers...catholics and protestants only fight in ireland.

Gang violence would be at a mininum

Abuskedti

miller8966 wrote:

Not even plausible. American people will form their own police force and re-instate their own court system in a matter of weeks.

Also there would be no suicide bombers...catholics and protestants only fight in ireland.

Gang violence would be at a mininum

Just shows that you don't look at Iraq objectively

If the American people tried to do that - the Iraqis would attack - becasue they would be Insurgents - you know against the current government

after killing those trying to band together - Iraq would announce - that we were doing it to ourselves..Just come along with the government by American's that Iraqis have established and everything will be peaceful

Abuskedti

miller8966 wrote:

Not even plausible. American people will form their own police force and re-instate their own court system in a matter of weeks.

Also there would be no suicide bombers...catholics and protestants only fight in ireland.

Gang violence would be at a mininum

Iraq has done exactly that in Sadr city.. which is why President Bush needs a surge to put it down

They have done it repeatedly - a big one in Fallujah

josevolution

i've read all 3 pgs of post in regards to this horrible situation i for one don't have an answer as to how to stop the killing ,but nobody else does either but i would think that if the american soldiers were to be pulled the situation would get calmer no ?? .........

jlew24asu

josevolution wrote:

i've read all 3 pgs of post in regards to this horrible situation i for one don't have an answer as to how to stop the killing ,but nobody else does either but i would think that if the american soldiers were to be pulled the situation would get calmer no ?? .........

in a perfect world sure. but I dont think so. I think the killing would dramatically increase. much like it did when we pulled out of veitinam. I think 2-3 million Cambodians died. but we wont know until it happens. I really dont see the soldiers being there for more then 2 years.

Abuskedti

josevolution wrote:

i've read all 3 pgs of post in regards to this horrible situation i for one don't have an answer as to how to stop the killing ,but nobody else does either but i would think that if the american soldiers were to be pulled the situation would get calmer no ?? .........

That is exactly what I think. Some Iraqi groups would gain control if we left. and they would establish Iraq again. Whenever they try - we attack them calling them insurgents - and perpetuate the horror.

josevolution

jlew24asu wrote:

in a perfect world sure. but I dont think so. I think the killing would dramatically increase. much like it did when we pulled out of veitinam. I think 2-3 million Cambodians died. but we wont know until it happens. I really dont see the soldiers being there for more then 2 years.

i just think that all of the IRAQ population just despises the OCUPATION so much that no matter what the coalition does they just wan't to be left alone to fix this mess and it's really just the american's they wan't out but who knows this is just my observation .......

jlew24asu

josevolution wrote:

i just think that all of the IRAQ population just despises the OCUPATION so much that no matter what the coalition does they just wan't to be left alone to fix this mess and it's really just the american's they wan't out but who knows this is just my observation .......

that certainly could be true but there are others trying to get involved besides Iraqis like Iran. they need to be stopped.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

in a perfect world sure. but I dont think so. I think the killing would dramatically increase. much like it did when we pulled out of veitinam. I think 2-3 million Cambodians died. but we wont know until it happens. I really dont see the soldiers being there for more then 2 years.

America pulling out of Vietnam had nothing to do with the Cambodian genocide. America's bombing of Cambodia did result in the break-up of the country and gave rise to the Khmer Rouge however.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

America pulling out of Vietnam had nothing to do with the Cambodian genocide. America's bombing of Cambodia did result in the break-up of the country and gave rise to the Khmer Rouge however.

thats not what I read but i'm not expert on the matter. but of course it had to be america's fault

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

thats not what I read but i'm not expert on the matter. but of course it had to be america's fault

Of course! Everything is America's fault. I mean, for example, i banged my toe this morning. That was America's fault because the shoes i was wearing came from America. A classic example right there!

The fact is, that when we're discussing world affairs, and more specifically, state terrorism since the 1940's, then America usually has a hand in it, whether directly, or indirectly. There are few exceptions. It's just indicative of the corrupting power of power.
Since America sold it's soul to the devil on On August 6, 1945, it's place in world affairs has unfortunately been one of violence and mendacity.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Of course! Everything is America's fault. I mean, for example, i banged my toe this morning. That was America's fault because the shoes i was wearing came from America. A classic example right there!

BASTARDS!!!