74 Dead In Baghdad

Abuskedti

Bombs were not ripping through Bagdad daily before we decided the world would be better off if we invaded.

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

Bombs were not ripping through Bagdad daily before we decided the world would be better off if we invaded.

Blame the bombers. They don't have to do this.

Byrnzie

What would happen if, like in Britain and America with 9/11 and 7/7, Iraqi's decided, at some point in the future, to hold a minutes silence to remember the dead from every deadly bomb attack? The country would need to remain silent for virtually every second of every day! Iraq would be the quietest country on Earth. Although Mongolia would come a close second.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

Blame the bombers. They don't have to do this.

This from mr take responsibility

Take the police and military away from Omaha Nebraska and see what happens.

We need to give Iraq back - and allow them to rebuild a civilization - they need to rebuild a civilization because we destroyed it. The least we can do is allow it..

And stuff your arrogance for a minute - It makes perfect sence to you that they should just conform to the very sensible US scheme...

But they don'T!!! They have their own dreams and wishes...

Abuskedti

Byrnzie wrote:

What would happen if, like in Britain and America with 9/11 and 7/7, Iraqi's decided, at some point in the future, to hold a minutes silence to remember the dead from every deadly bomb attack? The country would need to remain silent for virtually second of every day! Iraq would be the quietest country on Earth. Although Mongolia would come a close second.

Indeed.. If a bomb blew up in Cleveland killing 74 and wounding 170.. February 12th would be remembered forever...

just another day for the liberated Iraq

NCfan

Abuskedti wrote:

This from mr take responsibility

Take the police and military away from Omaha Nebraska and see what happens.

We need to give Iraq back - and allow them to rebuild a civilization - they need to rebuild a civilization because we destroyed it. The least we can do is allow it..

And stuff your arrogance for a minute - It makes perfect sence to you that they should just conform to the very sensible US scheme...

But they don'T!!! They have their own dreams and wishes...

If you take the police and military away from Omaha Nebraska or most any other town or city in the US - it certainly wouldn't look like Baghdad.

That is just a silly comparison. Sure, crime would go up no doubt. But I doubt you would have pipe bombs and IED's blowing up women and children at the local super market...


We took the lid off the boiling pot in Iraq. It was dangerous and risky - and our leadership has clearly and repeatedly failed to properly anticipate problems and correct thier mistakes.

But this doesn't mean we were wrong to do what we did. Sure, Bush may have lied about it - and the lie was surely wrong and even criminal if you want to see it that way.

But it doesn't mean what we are trying to do in Iraq is wrong.

Abuskedti

NCfan wrote:

If you take the police and military away from Omaha Nebraska or most any other town or city in the US - it certainly wouldn't look like Baghdad.

That is just a silly comparison. Sure, crime would go up no doubt. But I doubt you would have pipe bombs and IED's blowing up women and children at the local super market...


We took the lid off the boiling pot in Iraq. It was dangerous and risky - and our leadership has clearly and repeatedly failed to properly anticipate problems and correct thier mistakes.

But this doesn't mean we were wrong to do what we did. Sure, Bush may have lied about it - and the lie was surely wrong and even criminal if you want to see it that way.

But it doesn't mean what we are trying to do in Iraq is wrong.

The criminals would take over by force... of course everyone else would flee to another state - but if there were none - there would require a war to take control - which would take decades - as weapons are ammassed and alliences formed... until them - it would be rape and pillage -

Abuskedti

Now picture an Iraqi occupation of Omaha.. Telling us to cover up our woman and praise Allah... and put our religious leaders in charge - as soon as we assinilate to the Iraq way - they will begin to withdraw troops..

We be building IEDs - hanging every Iraqi we could find -

They are just people...

know1

There is NO excuse for indiscriminately bombing people shopping in marketplaces. Justifying their actions or blaming them on some other entity is just sick.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

There is NO excuse for indiscriminately bombing people shopping in marketplaces. Justifying their actions or blaming them on some other entity is just sick.

I guess people are different.. I find it sick to use advance technology to devistate a country killing their people and leaving them as we have left Iraq.. then patrol their streets attempting to force them to govern as we see fit..

Then to rub salt -- we publicly wonder why they are behaving so violently.

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

I guess people are different.. I find it sick to use advance technology to devistate a country killing their people and leaving them as we have left Iraq.. then patrol their streets attempting to force them to govern as we see fit..

Then to rub salt -- we publicly wonder why they are behaving so violently.

I'm not saying the U.S. is blameless, but when someone decides to blow up and kill people shopping in a market, the vast majority of the blame/responsibility is their own. It shouldn't even be a debate.

(I could ALMOST understand if they were attacking the U.S. forces, but they're mostly killing civilians)

NCfan

Abuskedti wrote:

I guess people are different.. I find it sick to use advance technology to devistate a country killing their people and leaving them as we have left Iraq.. then patrol their streets attempting to force them to govern as we see fit..

Then to rub salt -- we publicly wonder why they are behaving so violently.

Please address the following point...

Each entity in Iraq that is fighting for the future of the country is indeed fighting so their agenda and will is imposed on all Iraqi's. The Shia are fighting for the shia. The Sunni's are fighting for the Sunni's. The Jihadist are fighting for a Islamic theocracy.The Kurds just want to be left alone.

The United States is the only country "fighting" for everyone. We are no more forcing Iraqi's to submit to our will than any other group in arms over there.

But of all the groups, why does it not make sense to support the one whose agenda calls for a representative democracy - the empowerment of all people? Don't mistake this for McDonalds and Nikes on every corner of Baghdad. That is globalization and an idividual choice for every Iraqi to make. They can have whatever level of consumerism their culture is comfortable with.

We are not forcing Air Force One's and Big Macs on them. We are forcing them to not kill each other based on religious and tribal differences. What is wrong with that - seems pretty noble to me.

Byrnzie

know1 wrote:

I'm not saying the U.S. is blameless, but when someone decides to blow up and kill people shopping in a market, the vast majority of the blame/responsibility is their own. It shouldn't even be a debate.

(I could ALMOST understand if they were attacking the U.S. forces, but they're mostly killing civilians)

That's the power of religious ideology right there. It's able to blind people and turn them into cold-blooded muderers, just as political ideologies can also do.

know1

Byrnzie wrote:

That's the power of religious ideology right there. It's able to blind people and turn them into cold-blooded muderers, just as political ideologies can also do.

Yeah, yeah - the root cause of everything bad is religion to you, huh?

jlew24asu

Abuskedti wrote:

Bombs were not ripping through Bagdad daily before we decided the world would be better off if we invaded.

no but the mass graves sure did fill up fast. people throughout the country were free to do and say whatever they wanted. personally i'm pissed I had to sell my time share when the big bad USA invaded

NCfan

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah - the root cause of everything bad is religion to you, huh?

Are you in a round about way trying to deny that religous intolerance is not one of the root causes of the problems in Iraq?

miller8966

Abuskedti wrote:

The criminals would take over by force... of course everyone else would flee to another state - but if there were none - there would require a war to take control - which would take decades - as weapons are ammassed and alliences formed... until them - it would be rape and pillage -

No it wouldnt; we would have that shit figured out within days.

Byrnzie

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah - the root cause of everything bad is religion to you, huh?

Is that what i said? I'll need to re-read my post. I must have made a typo!

jlew24asu

miller8966 wrote:

No it wouldnt; we would have that shit figured out within days.

exactly. the comparison between the people of baghdad and Nebraska is ridiculous.

Abuskedti

NCfan wrote:

Please address the following point...

Each entity in Iraq that is fighting for the future of the country is indeed fighting so their agenda and will is imposed on all Iraqi's. The Shia are fighting for the shia. The Sunni's are fighting for the Sunni's. The Jihadist are fighting for a Islamic theocracy.The Kurds just want to be left alone.

The United States is the only country "fighting" for everyone. We are no more forcing Iraqi's to submit to our will than any other group in arms over there.

But of all the groups, why does it not make sense to support the one whose agenda calls for a representative democracy - the empowerment of all people? Don't mistake this for McDonalds and Nikes on every corner of Baghdad. That is globalization and an idividual choice for every Iraqi to make. They can have whatever level of consumerism their culture is comfortable with.

We are not forcing Air Force One's and Big Macs on them. We are forcing them to not kill each other based on religious and tribal differences. What is wrong with that - seems pretty noble to me.

That is a reasonable question.

First, I don't agree that we are fighting for them not to kill each other - or that they are not attacking us. We have taken a side. and the fact is that the side we chose is the smallest side.. the vast majority of Iraq are currently "insurgents" which is a label we use as a bad word - almost equivalent to terrorist - when in fact it means the ones opposed to the government - which is the government we installed.

We have merely created a team and are supporting it just enough to keep it alive - but that side has no hope of winning the hearts of Iraqis..

This will never end if we continue to ignore what Iraqis want and to ignore the neighboring countries and cultures that exist in Iraq.

We are just perpetuating the tragedy.

NCfan

miller8966 wrote:

No it wouldnt; we would have that shit figured out within days.

Much agreed. Abuskedti seems to ingnore the fact that the percentage of criminals is very small compared to our overall population. Sure, that percentage would increase should law enforcement cease - but not enough to engulf our society in the turmoil of Iraq. That comparison is laughable...

As if most American's are jealous of the un-checked violence in Iraq, right Abuskedti? If we loved choas and killing so much, why don't we see a mass defection to countries where that is common-place? Fuck our cops ya know? If they are going to keep us down, then let's just skip down to Mexico where anything goes... As if our government is subjigating our people to be decent human beings, and we are just itching to rape somebody or go steal something but Uncle Sam might throw us in jail...

The reality is that the agenda of most Americans is to live a happy, peaceful, fullfilled life and contribute something towards the future. We like our society and though we disagree on many aspects and issues - most of us have learned to debate our diferernces peacefully and tolerate them as well.

We are simply too busy living life to go murder our neighbor becuase he's a different religion from me, or he's a Democrat and I'm a Republican. Those are the actions of desperate people, and most Americans aren't desperate. And if our police left, we wouldn't suddenly become desperate people.

I agree that there is a thin veneer to our society and civilization in general. Sure, there are certain events that would embroil our streets with stealing, murdering and rape. But we're talking aleins landing or an apocolyptic asteroid or something - Not our cops packing up shop.