Bush says

Bu2

hippiemom wrote:

I agree with this. If someone has a master plan for coming up with 5 trillion dollars, and a way to get a couple hundred thousand more people to volunteer for military service, I'm all ears.

If no one has such a plan, then let's just get the fuck out. What we've done so far hasn't helped, it's made things worse, so why the hell would we want to do it for another year or more? We're putting more lives at risk for nothing, just postponing the inevitable.

By setting a time limit, the Dems are simply telling the Bushies that enough is enough and it's time to start pulling out. We know that won't happen in one day, not even one year. But if we start narrowing down the troops to those who can train the Iraqies and stop sending yet more in, Iraq will see that they have to stand on their own two feet and do things without our help. Otherwise, we will be occupying Iraq for years to come.

When will we learn that democracy is still a wrinkled prom dress that even we in the States can't dry clean well....let alone make other countries wear?

down_ski

Abuskedti wrote:

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Research before posting!

Iraq was a huge fuck up, HUGE, and its UNDERSTOOD. But if we did pull out, Iran would most likely move on (more than they already have) Take control of the entire middle eastern oil supply and eventually buy North Korea's Nuclear Weapon support (And trust me, we all know Iran is going for Nukes to blow up Israel, they are not going for Nuclear Power..) If this happens, it will result in the innocent slaughter of Millions of people (Similar to what happened to Cambodians after we pulled out of Vietnam)

And Really, the only problem in Iraq is Baghdad, and its a big big problem. But if Bush happens to get that stabilized (Uhh....) Things might shift in a different direction.

All im saying is, if we "Cut and Run" very bad things will happen, VERY bad things will happen. Iran wants to destroy western civilization (That means me and YOU) and, i guess, control the world. Sort of like Pinky and the Brain.

I just dont understand how people can thing things will be fine and dandy if we cut and run.

Bu2

It would not come to that.

down_ski

Bu2 wrote:

It would not come to that.

Iran destroying Israel? Western Civilization? or taking over Iraq?

Bu2

down_ski wrote:

Iran destroying Israel? Western Civilization? or taking over Iraq?

My previous posts state that I think we should leave SOME troops over there, for a time, to help Iraq out.

boxwine_in_hell

Abuskedti wrote:

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

What's devastating is your devastation of the spelling of devastating. In all seriousness though what do you expect from a President that's had his head up his ass since he took office?

norm

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

What's devastating is your devastation of the spelling of devastating.

LOL (not at you, Abuskedti) :D

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

In all seriousness though what do you expect from a President that's had his head up his ass since he took office?

You meant since birth, right?

Cosmo

down_ski wrote:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Research before posting!

Iraq was a huge fuck up, HUGE, and its UNDERSTOOD. But if we did pull out, Iran would most likely move on (more than they already have) Take control of the entire middle eastern oil supply and eventually buy North Korea's Nuclear Weapon support (And trust me, we all know Iran is going for Nukes to blow up Israel, they are not going for Nuclear Power..) If this happens, it will result in the innocent slaughter of Millions of people (Similar to what happened to Cambodians after we pulled out of Vietnam)

And Really, the only problem in Iraq is Baghdad, and its a big big problem. But if Bush happens to get that stabilized (Uhh....) Things might shift in a different direction.

All im saying is, if we "Cut and Run" very bad things will happen, VERY bad things will happen. Iran wants to destroy western civilization (That means me and YOU) and, i guess, control the world. Sort of like Pinky and the Brain.

I just dont understand how people can thing things will be fine and dandy if we cut and run.

...
Well... think about it... from a purely logical... not pro-war... not anti-war... not Democrat or Republican... but, purely from the situation that exists today.
Iraq is 60% Shi'ia. Iran is over 80% Shi'ia.
The Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, Iraq is one of the holiest sites in all of the Shi'ia sect of Islam. Muslims of this faith must make a pilgrimage to this Mosque at least onece in their lives. Under Hussein, only 300 Iranian per year were allowed into Iraq for their pilgrimage. That quota has since been lifted. The probable outcome is the increase in the Shi'ia population of Iraq.
With the violence in Iraq... the ones that could flee... have fled. These are the Iraqis with the resources to leave. These are also the ones that would probably be able to help build Iraq... the educators, scientists, doctors, politicians. The ones that remain are the ones that have no other place to go.
Face it... Iraq is sliding towards Iran. There's probably a reason why Muqtada Al Sadr is in Iran... avoiding the 'Surge'. Al Maliki is Shi'ia and probably benefits from the likes of al Sadr and his militia. Iran was handed Iraq by the Great Satan himself. The Ayatollah (and Ronald Reagan) would never have seen this coming.
..
As for VietNam and Cambodia... didn't the Viet Nam Military end the Khmer Rouge's reign in Cambodia? The killing fields did not occur in Viet Nam... it occurred because of us... not them.
...
Back to Iraq... we have two options over there... Bad or Bad. We have to decide which Bad outcome we are willing to pay for.
The Surge is working... because there were always supposed to be more troops over there to begin with. This means that the surge is an increase... with no decrease. It is not a surge... it is an escalation in numbers of american troops. This means we need to maintain this level... for how long? 10? 20? 50 years? During that time... how many American soldiers have to die before you declare it as 'unacceptable losses'?
And what about the excuses I heard from people argueing your points today... 3 years ago. The reason we couldn't 'Cut and Run' in 2004 was because there would be chaos in the streets and a Civil War would break out. Well, I guess we kept that from happening, didn't we?
...
Face it... there is nothing to Win over there. If we DO Win... what do we win? The best we can do is figure out how many American soldiers we are will to accept as 'acceptable losses' before the Shi'ites and Sunnis go at it. Civil War between their religious sects is probably in their future.... I mean, it's been in their past for about 2000 years.

boxwine_in_hell

cutback wrote:

You meant since birth, right?

Well I was giving W the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sure you're right and his baby pictures show his stupid head up his backside.

Rushlimbo

down_ski wrote:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Research before posting!

Iraq was a huge fuck up, HUGE, and its UNDERSTOOD. But if we did pull out, Iran would most likely move on (more than they already have) Take control of the entire middle eastern oil supply and eventually buy North Korea's Nuclear Weapon support (And trust me, we all know Iran is going for Nukes to blow up Israel, they are not going for Nuclear Power..) If this happens, it will result in the innocent slaughter of Millions of people (Similar to what happened to Cambodians after we pulled out of Vietnam)

And Really, the only problem in Iraq is Baghdad, and its a big big problem. But if Bush happens to get that stabilized (Uhh....) Things might shift in a different direction.

All im saying is, if we "Cut and Run" very bad things will happen, VERY bad things will happen. Iran wants to destroy western civilization (That means me and YOU) and, i guess, control the world. Sort of like Pinky and the Brain.

I just dont understand how people can thing things will be fine and dandy if we cut and run.

Drama drama drama. Everything you say is untrue. The only problem in Iraq is Baghdad? Iran wants to destroy western civilization? Pinky and the Brain analogy?

Dont want to cut and run? Try this website. Good day.

http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

I'll agree that it's been devastating, but what if withdrawal of the troops makes it worse?

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

I'll agree that it's been devastating, but what if withdrawal of the troops makes it worse?

I think withdrawal will not make it better. I don't see how it could be worse. We are using force for all the wrong reasons.

as for you Know1..

How can you admonish people for joining the military because they a killing and you think that is wrong and therefore a military is wrong.. yet you think our military should stay in Iraq so things don't get worse.

Is there not some contradiction there - some hypocracy - some passive abuse of the youth of America for your own purposes while insulting them at the same time?

Jeanwah

What Bush is ultimately doing by refusing to make an exit plan, is (purposely) leaving the mess for the next guy in the White House to clean up. SHIT-TAY and cowardly!!

boxwine_in_hell

Jeanwah wrote:

What Bush is ultimately doing by refusing to make an exit plan, is (purposely) leaving the mess for the next guy in the White House to clean up. SHIT-TAY and cowardly!!

Can the new President kick him in the balls on his way out of the oval office? Is that too much to ask for?

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

I think withdrawal will not make it better. I don't see how it could be worse. We are using force for all the wrong reasons.

as for you Know1..

How can you admonish people for joining the military because they a killing and you think that is wrong and therefore a military is wrong.. yet you think our military should stay in Iraq so things don't get worse.

Is there not some contradiction there - some hypocracy - some passive abuse of the youth of America for your own purposes while insulting them at the same time?

I'm for whatever option minimizes the killing. At this point, there's definitely going to be some either way.

I don't believe I've admonished people for joining. I just said I do not understand why they do it. They are two different things.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

I'm for whatever option minimizes the killing. At this point, there's definitely going to be some either way.

I don't believe I've admonished people for joining. I just said I do not understand why they do it. They are two different things.

You see that their being minimizes killing yet do not understand why they do it?

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

You see that their being minimizes killing yet do not understand why they do it?

Do I really have to go into detail to explain the differences of those two concepts?

In GENERAL, I do not understand why people initially join the military - whether it's today during the Iraq situation, before 2001, or in the future.

Specific to the Iraq situation, I was never in favor of invading Iraq, but at this point I am for whatever option mimimizes the killing.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

Do I really have to go into detail to explain the differences of those two concepts?

In GENERAL, I do not understand why people initially join the military - whether it's today during the Iraq situation, before 2001, or in the future.

Specific to the Iraq situation, I was never in favor of invading Iraq, but at this point I am for whatever option mimimizes the killing.

You don't need to explain anything to me

However, in this particular you see how a military is necessary - you are even in favor or their being in Iraq to assist in saving lives.

Yet, you maintain that a military is evil

There is no question military power is abused and misused by politicians and misguided humans

that does not change the fact that a military is needed and those devoting themselves to this purpose are a blessing.

KFrost2008

Quite frankly, we are never going to be out of Iraq. To any major problem, there are two solutions: a political solution and a military solution. All chances of a political solution were thrown out the window when we sent out first wave of troops across Iraq borders. That's why the government in Iraq continues collapsing. Regardless of what people want to believe, force is now the only way the country can be controlled now. Thank you White House.

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

You don't need to explain anything to me

However, in this particular you see how a military is necessary - you are even in favor or their being in Iraq to assist in saving lives.

Yet, you maintain that a military is evil

There is no question military power is abused and misused by politicians and misguided humans

that does not change the fact that a military is needed and those devoting themselves to this purpose are a blessing.

Do you know how hard it is to have a discussion with someone who constantly changes your wording and implies you say things that you didn't?

I didn't say the military is evil. I said I do not understand why people join it.