Bush says

Abuskedti

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

josevolution

it's devastating to know he just doesn't get it he hasn't a clue ,really his white house should be located where i live .......

I.m.Still.Alive

Bush souldn't be able to say anything. That man should sent to Siberia. Him and all the other guys pulling his strings.

LikeAnOcean

I.m.Still.Alive wrote:

Bush souldn't be able to say anything. That man should sent to Siberia. Him and all the other guys pulling his strings.

Nah, Bush should be demoted to a lousy used-car salesman. He is only in his position by association.

soulsinging

Abuskedti wrote:

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

im a big fan of things that are devAstating.

cincybearcat

Abuskedti wrote:

Consequenses of setting an arbitrary date for withdrawal will be devistating.

does he understand that the consequences of the invasion are already devistating.. have been day after day for more than 4 years..

Devistating has already happened.

He's right.

And it is true that setting an arbitrary date for invading iraq was also devastating.

2 wrongs don't make a right, do they?

gue_barium

cincybearcat wrote:

He's right.

And it is true that setting an arbitrary date for invading iraq was also devastating.

2 wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Explain how withdrawing US troops will be devastating.

NCfan

cincybearcat wrote:

He's right.

And it is true that setting an arbitrary date for invading iraq was also devastating.

2 wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Exactly! It would be nice for somebody to make an arguement why pulling the troops out in a year would be better than letting them stay besides "things are already messed up so let's leave". Wow, that's pretty convincing!

gue_barium

NCfan wrote:

Exactly! It would be nice for somebody to make an arguement why pulling the troops out in a year would be better than letting them stay besides "things are already messed up so let's leave". Wow, that's pretty convincing!

You explain, too.

cincybearcat

gue_barium wrote:

Explain how withdrawing US troops will be devastating.

Civil war, country split into 3 killing each other because they have differences.

Explain why you don't think it would be devastating.

gue_barium

cincybearcat wrote:

Civil war, country split into 3 killing each other because they have differences.

Explain why you don't think it would be devastating.

You haven't convinced me.

macgyver06

cincybearcat wrote:

Civil war, country split into 3 killing each other because they have differences.

Explain why you don't think it would be devastating.

split into three...civil war??

and i will ask again on this board...and again im positive i either won't get a reply or i will get some kind of funny joke comment..and no answer so...

WHO IS KILLING EACH OTHER IN IRAQ?

brown people is not acceptable here..

macgyver06

gue_barium wrote:

You haven't convinced me.

i like how he answers your question with a question...hahaha

cincy sorry..but its time to sell that tv you got bud...

cincybearcat

gue_barium wrote:

You haven't convinced me.

and I have seen no argument whatsoever from you.

macgyver06

macgyver: what time is it?

cincy: I dont know, what time is it?



JUST SAY YOUR CLUELESS!! lol

NCfan

gue_barium wrote:

Explain how withdrawing US troops will be devastating.

The existing government, though weak and newly formed, would disenergrate. There would be a nation with 25 million citizens and no government in the middle of the most strategic geography in the world for democratic countries. it would be total chaos that would make the last 4 years look like a joke.

A full-on civil war would break out. Other countries in the region would get involved to try and stablize the madness - Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. Things could spiral out of control to the point where a regional war could break out. The price of oil would skyrocket.

Sure, the Malaki government is weak and many are fighting against it. But regardless who is in charge there, there are factions that will disagree and try to challenge the authority with violence.

It's not like the U.S. has engineered this situation. We just didn't contain it. We fucked that up for sure. But the underlying problems are not our fault. They would be exposed sooner or later - we just made it sooner.

There are a lot of problems in the Middle East, and hopefully we have started the process of working many of them out.

gue_barium

cincybearcat wrote:

and I have seen no argument whatsoever from you.

All I am asking is that you and NCFan back up your argument to begin with. I want to agree with you, but you haven't given me anything to go on.

cincybearcat

macgyver06 wrote:

i like how he answers your question with a question...hahaha

cincy sorry..but its time to sell that tv you got bud...

Ummm, I answered then I asked his opinion. Time to grow up.

cincybearcat

macgyver06 wrote:

split into three...civil war??

and i will ask again on this board...and again im positive i either won't get a reply or i will get some kind of funny joke comment..and no answer so...

WHO IS KILLING EACH OTHER IN IRAQ?

brown people is not acceptable here..

Sunni, Shi'a, and Kurds.

Brown people? Why would you say that, are you trying to insinuate that I am a racist somehow or just being the clever 14 year-old that you think you are?

gue_barium

NCfan wrote:

The existing government, though weak and newly formed, would disenergrate. There would be a nation with 25 million citizens and no government in the middle of the most strategic geography in the world for democratic countries. it would be total chaos that would make the last 4 years look like a joke.

So, it is important to you that the US save face.

NCfan wrote:

A full-on civil war would break out. Other countries in the region would get involved to try and stablize the madness - Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. Things could spiral out of control to the point where a regional war could break out. The price of oil would skyrocket.

So, oil prices and dependency on foreign oil appeal to you.

NCfan wrote:

Sure, the Malaki government is weak and many are fighting against it. But regardless who is in charge there, there are factions that will disagree and try to challenge the authority.

Isn't that what democracy is all about?

NCfan wrote:

It's not like the U.S. has engineered this situation. We just didn't contain it. We fucked that up for sure. But the underlying problems are not our fault. They would be exposed sooner or later - we just made it sooner.

Who's underlying problems? Ours or theirs?

NCfan wrote:

There are a lot of problems in the Middle East, and hopefully we have started the process of working many of them out.

There are a lot of problems in North Carolina. Is Jesse Helms dead yet?

macgyver06

so you are saying right now...the sunnis, kurdish and shittes are killing each other?

NCfan

Iraqi's deserve better than another strong man that rules the country and keeps order with an iron fist. If we leave, that is exactly what will happen. That is not only bad for us, it is bad for Iraqi's, it is bad for the world in general.

People murder and are killed everyday. More Americans shot each other last year than were killed in Iraq during the last four years combined. Our losses are relatively light considering what we are doing and that is an important factor in making judgements. The "no life is worth it' mentality doesn't hold water for anybody who doesn't live in lala land. Let's call a spade a spade here. Life is not fair, none of us are owed anything. The risk is surely worth the potential reward. It's not like we have instituted a draft - we have an all volunteer army. AN ARMY people..... you don't sign up and become a soldier with the expectation of being a bean counter. You are a warrior and feel that defending the policies of your government is worth your life.

The only reason the American public wants us out is based on emotion, not solid knowledge of geopolitics and foreign policy. Democrats only want us out to solidify their power. They are capable of making mistakes just as well as Bush and co. The only reason they are appealing is because Bush looks so bad, not becuase they have all the answers.

Cosmo

I see it like this...
That place is fucked up... it has been fucked up since... well, since forever. We went in there like a bunch of testosterone injected morons and stirred up the pot in that already fucked up place.
Now... think about it... when we leave... whenever we leave... what is going to happen? Fucked up shit, that's what's going to happen. Whether we leave today or 10 years from today... some fucked up shit is going to happen.
The best we can do is try to figure out which one of our choices is going to lead to the LEAST fucked up outcome.
...
Personally, I think that if we REALLY want what's best for the Iraqi people... we owe them security. To gain security... sorry, but it'll take about 300,000 quality troops, about 20 years and about 5 trillion tax dollars to get that place to look like downtown Detriot, at best. That is the 'Job' that everyone is claiming that needs to 'git done'.

Milestone

The only way for peace is to split the region into thirds (like it was before the damned Brits divided it up after WWI).

NCfan

The bottom line is that war is a performanced-based venture. If we had better results now, the situation would be entirely different. If things are going well, people don't care about war. If things are going bad, war is terrible, my oh my!

cincybearcat

macgyver06 wrote:

so you are saying right now...the sunnis, kurdish and shittes are killing each other?

I am saying they fought each other and if the US just pulled out arbitrarily they would do so again. And with the state the US would leave Iraq, it wouldn't be too far a stretch for them to all form their own individual countries.

This is all specualtion of course as is anyone's opinion here.

NCfan

gue_barium wrote:

So, it is important to you that the US save face.


So, oil prices and dependency on foreign oil appeal to you.


Isn't that what democracy is all about?


Who's underlying problems? Ours or theirs?


There are a lot of problems in North Carolina. Is Jesse Helms dead yet?

Spoken like a true 15 year old.

hippiemom

Cosmo wrote:

I see it like this...
That place is fucked up... it has been fucked up since... well, since forever. We went in there like a bunch of testosterone injected morons and stirred up the pot in that already fucked up place.
Now... think about it... when we leave... whenever we leave... what is going to happen? Fucked up shit, that's what's going to happen. Whether we leave today or 10 years from today... some fucked up shit is going to happen.
The best we can do is try to figure out which one of our choices is going to lead to the LEAST fucked up outcome.
...
Personally, I think that if we REALLY want what's best for the Iraqi people... we owe them security. To gain security... sorry, but it'll take about 300,000 quality troops, about 20 years and about 5 trillion tax dollars to get that place to look like downtown Detriot, at best. That is the 'Job' that everyone is claiming that needs to 'git done'.

I agree with this. If someone has a master plan for coming up with 5 trillion dollars, and a way to get a couple hundred thousand more people to volunteer for military service, I'm all ears.

If no one has such a plan, then let's just get the fuck out. What we've done so far hasn't helped, it's made things worse, so why the hell would we want to do it for another year or more? We're putting more lives at risk for nothing, just postponing the inevitable.

gue_barium

NCfan wrote:

Spoken like a true 15 year old.

Right, right.

Milestone

Perhaps we should make Iraq into the 51st state and start taxing them.

macgyver06

NCfan wrote:

Iraqi's deserve better than another strong man that rules the country and keeps order with an iron fist. If we leave, that is exactly what will happen. That is not only bad for us, it is bad for Iraqi's, it is bad for the world in general.

People murder and are killed everyday. More Americans shot each other last year than were killed in Iraq during the last four years combined. Our losses are relatively light considering what we are doing and that is an important factor in making judgements. The "no life is worth it' mentality doesn't hold water for anybody who doesn't live in lala land. Let's call a spade a spade here. Life is not fair, none of us are owed anything. The risk is surely worth the potential reward. It's not like we have instituted a draft - we have an all volunteer army. AN ARMY people..... you don't sign up and become a soldier with the expectation of being a bean counter. You are a warrior and feel that defending the policies of your government is worth your life.

The only reason the American public wants us out is based on emotion, not solid knowledge of geopolitics and foreign policy. Democrats only want us out to solidify their power. They are capable of making mistakes just as well as Bush and co. The only reason they are appealing is because Bush looks so bad, not becuase they have all the answers.

under hussein, iraqis did vote to go to war with iran