What we experienced in Vancouver was highly, highly irregular. Seattle had the same conditions as we did. In no way is this "normal"
Same conditions? I didn't hear about anyone having to boil water in order to drink it around here. Are you sure that Vancouver had the same conditions as Seattle? I only ask because Portland didn't and they are similair to Vancouver in distance from Seattle.
How do you separate to what degree that mankind is the cause of climate change? Personally, I think it is entirely probably (based on my admittedly amateur knowledge) that mankind is part of it. But to what degree (5%, 50%, fluctuating depending on other factors, etc), is where I'm lost.
Certainly there has been climate change in the past where mankind had little to do with. Ice ages coming & going, worldwide droughts, the "Dust Bowl" of the 1930's, etc.
first - you have to accept the concept of greenhouse gases and the theory behind the greenhouse effect ... if you do then you will realize that most greenhouse gases occur naturally (water vapour) ... the thing is tho - there is a natural level of these gases that allows the planet to function as is ... with a certain degree of variability ... now, that we are creating our own greenhouse gases - we are now essentially tipping the scale ...
so ... to answer your question - there is some natural variability in climate but mankind's effect is the main cause of this climate change ... so - 90+% ... a volcano might explode which would not be man's fault or something like that but the majority of the greenhouse gases that are causing problems are man-made ...
yes ... we've had extreme weather events before but they are and will more frequent as we are affecting the weather everywhere ... there is plenty of evidence worldwide to support this already ...
Same conditions? I didn't hear about anyone having to boil water in order to drink it around here. Are you sure that Vancouver had the same conditions as Seattle? I only ask because Portland didn't and they are similair to Vancouver in distance from Seattle.
I should say similar rather than the "same". The reason for our boiling water advisory has more to do with local conditions of the water source. We get our water from 3 reservoirs just north of the city. They were muddied due to excessive amounts of rain which came just after one of the windstorms which downed trees and loosened soil which allowed the topsoil to become oversaturated and simply eroded into the reservoir. This along with irresponsible logging around the watershed. I digress, the conditions in snowfall, windstorms, cold temperatures and heavy rain were all common in Seattle and Vancouver.
Fanch, good question. I don't think anyone is denying that climate does change naturally and it is entirely possible that SOME of the changes in climate have natural causes, however the amount of CO2 that has been added to the atmosphere corresponds almost perfectly with the amount of temperature increases that we have seen. Increase CO2 has an almost perfect correlation with temperature.
Scientists can measure historic temperature through such means as tree rings, glacial deposits and stratification and pollen samples amongst many others. CO2 can be measured through means such as glacial drilling and samples where they can date the age of ice and determine the atmospheric composition.
The previous warming and cooling trends that you discussed earlier have been very minor blips compared to what we are experiencing now. the amount of warming in the last while has dwarfed the other warming trends by a large margin, only this time we have shown that there has been a great artificial distortion of the atmosphere from our pollution.
The dust bowl, had more to do with the elimination of grasslands and human encroachment that temperature.
If you want to see that this is not just a warm year, but a predicted pattern of massive global climate change watch An Inconvenient Truth. Al Gore presents all of the science and studies in an understandable way.
I learned some interesting things watching it. Like the fact that auto fuel economy in Japan is by law a minimum of 46 miles to the gallon, compared to low 20's for the US.
Leave your lady on the cement floor.
"You boo us, you call us pussies, and still we come back." EV NJ1 2006
Comments
Same conditions? I didn't hear about anyone having to boil water in order to drink it around here. Are you sure that Vancouver had the same conditions as Seattle? I only ask because Portland didn't and they are similair to Vancouver in distance from Seattle.
first - you have to accept the concept of greenhouse gases and the theory behind the greenhouse effect ... if you do then you will realize that most greenhouse gases occur naturally (water vapour) ... the thing is tho - there is a natural level of these gases that allows the planet to function as is ... with a certain degree of variability ... now, that we are creating our own greenhouse gases - we are now essentially tipping the scale ...
so ... to answer your question - there is some natural variability in climate but mankind's effect is the main cause of this climate change ... so - 90+% ... a volcano might explode which would not be man's fault or something like that but the majority of the greenhouse gases that are causing problems are man-made ...
yes ... we've had extreme weather events before but they are and will more frequent as we are affecting the weather everywhere ... there is plenty of evidence worldwide to support this already ...
I should say similar rather than the "same". The reason for our boiling water advisory has more to do with local conditions of the water source. We get our water from 3 reservoirs just north of the city. They were muddied due to excessive amounts of rain which came just after one of the windstorms which downed trees and loosened soil which allowed the topsoil to become oversaturated and simply eroded into the reservoir. This along with irresponsible logging around the watershed. I digress, the conditions in snowfall, windstorms, cold temperatures and heavy rain were all common in Seattle and Vancouver.
Fanch, good question. I don't think anyone is denying that climate does change naturally and it is entirely possible that SOME of the changes in climate have natural causes, however the amount of CO2 that has been added to the atmosphere corresponds almost perfectly with the amount of temperature increases that we have seen. Increase CO2 has an almost perfect correlation with temperature.
Scientists can measure historic temperature through such means as tree rings, glacial deposits and stratification and pollen samples amongst many others. CO2 can be measured through means such as glacial drilling and samples where they can date the age of ice and determine the atmospheric composition.
The previous warming and cooling trends that you discussed earlier have been very minor blips compared to what we are experiencing now. the amount of warming in the last while has dwarfed the other warming trends by a large margin, only this time we have shown that there has been a great artificial distortion of the atmosphere from our pollution.
The dust bowl, had more to do with the elimination of grasslands and human encroachment that temperature.
I learned some interesting things watching it. Like the fact that auto fuel economy in Japan is by law a minimum of 46 miles to the gallon, compared to low 20's for the US.
"You boo us, you call us pussies, and still we come back." EV NJ1 2006
2008 MSG 2
2006 NJ 1, NJ 2
2003 MSG 1