They will never be a modern day Grateful Dead, nothing to do with setlists.
They are simply not an improvisational band.
Oh, they can jam out hard and sometimes long within a given structure, nobody can deny that. But they regurgitate meat and potatoes, night after night. Extremely good meat and potatoes, but whimsical creativity, exploration, intuitive ingenuity, variations of tempo, song structure, rhythmic play, or breaking any form of new ground does not happen 'in the moment.' Pearl Jam is one of the least 'jammy' bands going, especially nowadays. :eek:
For sure the Dead juggled sets around but on any given run you'd hear many of the same things over the course of two or at least three nights: Tennessee Jed, Deal, Loser, Bertha, Looks Like Rain, Sugaree ... dozens of first set examples ... all of Bobby's cowboy songs ... these things fell into definite slots, especially first and early second sets. People often overlook this.
Yet it's the truth that to often even casual listeners they wouldn't play the songs exactly the same way twice, even on back-to-back nights. There was always some variation in how they approached a song, sometimes subtle, sometimes not so. That was their calling card, their genius. With PJ, when you hear the first notes of any given song you know exactly how it's going to play out - Mike's featured solos notwithstanding [but that's really beside the point.]
Not saying it's a bad thing; I love PJ's emotional range, musicianship, and passionate fire, but in a fundamental musical sense PJ could not be further from the Grateful Dead. The comparisons never should have started.
This might be getting off the subject, but the point of the Dead comparison never had anything to do with the style of music. It had more to do with the scene around it ... people caravanning from show to show, taking in whole tours, etc etc. That only happens with a small handful of bands. The Dead are one. PJ is another.
The comparison is a valid one.
Nobody ever said the two bands *sound* alike.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I too thought there quite a few repeats for a 2 night stand.
In 2003, if I remember correctly, they only repeated 5 songs. I might be wrong but I am almost positive it wasn't anywhere close to 11.
And it is not a small percentage of people that go to both shows. Look at this board. I bet it's a pretty big percentage. Maybe a small percentage that are able to score 10C seats for both. But I bet it's at least 1/3 of that crowd that goes to both shows. At least.
What's with the backup singers? I mean, I know what's with them. I read the posts... I just think backup singers are cheesy. Pearl Jam already added a keyboard player. That's enough in the "predictable added band members" category, thanks. No backup singers. No trumpet players. No Go Go dancers. The other 5 guys in the band can't sing backup good enough?
You didn't think Fonzie and crew were f'n hilarious?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
This might be getting off the subject, but the point of the Dead comparison never had anything to do with the style of music. It had more to do with the scene around it ... people caravanning from show to show, taking in whole tours, etc etc. That only happens with a small handful of bands. The Dead are one. PJ is another.
The comparison is a valid one.
Nobody ever said the two bands *sound* alike.
I think the comparison also has to do with variety within shows, and I do think that his claim is correct that Pearl Jam sticks to the same song structures that they play. The only songs that they jam out to are the ones they always jam out to. (Porch, RVM, Crazy Mary, Daughter, Betterman, etc, etc) Not to complain though. I'm just saying that's how it is. I'd love to hear a Marker in the Sand jam out for instance on that outro, but it's just not going to happen (unless it's preplanned pre-tour in which case every time the play it, it will be jammed out on). Ed called WMA at MSG1 an "experiment." No it wasn't. It was played that way all tour. Again, not trying to take anything away from the Pearl Jam live show. In fact, I HATE the Dead, but the poster does have a point with his post.
Gotta love W.M.A., that was consistently one of my favorite parts of the shows I went to. Those chords with the vocal melody are just chilling. Beautiful.
I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
-Reagan
Yeah, I mean none of the songs are bad (except No More, gimme a break, Ed).
i know huh..fucking Ed,not wanting to see our brothers/fathers/sons/daughters/mothers/sisters dying in the sand of a country we shouldn't be in,over lies!
fucking guy has some nerve!
sorry but i hate you ignorant assholes.i am always so peaceful and feeling the love vibe at the show until i hear the "shut up and sing Jeremy" fuck heads and it incites me to be violent!! luckily God grants me the strength to restrain myself from choking one of you stupid assholes.
i know huh..fucking Ed,not wanting to see our brothers/fathers/sons/daughters/mothers/sisters dying in the sand of a country we shouldn't be in,over lies!
fucking guy has some nerve!
sorry but i hate you ignorant assholes.i am always so peaceful and feeling the love vibe at the show until i hear the "shut up and sing Jeremy" fuck heads and it incites me to be violent!! luckily God grants me the strength to restrain myself from choking one of you stupid assholes.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the original poster just doesn't like the song, regardless of the message? I love when people use "god" and "asshole" in the same sentence. It says a lot about your religious conviction.
You must remember that this tour is not an "album tour". If this were an album tour you could easily replace 5 "old" songs with 5 "new" songs. With there being 11 repeats at MSG , add 5 "new" and different album songs each night and you are only left with one repeat...probably Evenflow, Corduroy, or DTE.
I much would have rather heard black then alive again. Evenflow is always a awesome song, wheather it be Mike palying guitar behind his head, or Matt going nuts on the drums. I have been to 5 shows and never heard Black yet. IMO playing 3 of the same songs is fine but some other songs would have been nice.
9/28/2004 Boston, Mass
5/12/2006 Albany, NY
6/01/2006 E Rutherford, NJ
6/24/2008, NYC MSG, NY
6/25/2008, NYC MSG, NY
10/27/2009 Philli, PA Spectrum 1
5/21/2010 NYC MSG 2, NY 10/25/13 Hartford, Ct
I don't know.......I was at both Camden shows and MSG II, and the amount of repeats was a bit surprising. Just because people have been talking about it doesn't mean they are bashing the band, they are just surprised.
I had a great time at all of the shows, and I have to think that's the most important thing. Would I have preferred a little more variety? Of course. But the shows were great, I got to hear a few tracks that I've missed in the past, and seeing Ace Frehley at MSG II was a real treat for someone who grew up a KISS fan.
Some people need to remember that we will never get an all rarities setlist, even at a fanclub show like the Vic. The band decides what to play,and either live with it, or don't go to the shows.
Others need to stop "defending" the band over what is an innocent enough topic for discussion. People have a right to comment on what they just paid to see.
They repeated 9 songs out of 30 and you are complaining? You can't count corduroy and evenflow as repeated songs since they are played at every single show.
No kidding. Some people forget that not everyone is so obsessive about Pearl Jam that they go to every show within 100 miles.
Some people only have tickets to one show, and deserve to see some hits.
Also, with that said, The Grateful Dead were able to mix up their setlist more than anyone else for 2 reasons:
1. They had ZERO hits. Every song was on an equal level.
2. They suck and everyone was on drugs. So it didn't matter what they played.
ya they suck......please
the grateful dead were, and continue to be (despite being gone for 13 years) the most successful touring live musical act in the history of music. not sure how you can suck, and hold that title
they suck and everyone was on drugs.....thats just ignorant.
dont cite their "sucking" as a reason for a new set with nearly zero repeats each night. its called the grateful dead have a HUGE CATALOG
you can have your opinion but dont throw out stupid comments like you did above.
________________________________________________
Philadelphia -- 2005
Camden I -- 2006
Wash. DC -- 2006
Bonnaroo -- 2008
MSG II -- 2008
i'm surprised i haven't heard black. three shows and no black, what are the odds of that?
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
I was always under the impression that the Grateful Dead comparisons came more from the nature of our fan base than from the music/setlists. And I'd throw in the bootleg policy/bootleg releases into the mix as to part of the reasons for the comparisons.
ya they suck......please
the grateful dead were, and continue to be (despite being gone for 13 years) the most successful touring live musical act in the history of music. not sure how you can suck, and hold that title
they suck and everyone was on drugs.....thats just ignorant.
dont cite their "sucking" as a reason for a new set with nearly zero repeats each night. its called the grateful dead have a HUGE CATALOG
you can have your opinion but dont throw out stupid comments like you did above.
No disrespect meant to Pearl Jam, my all time favorite band, bar none.
When it comes to touring bands, The Dead are, and will continue to be forever the gold standard. It isn't even close, they invented it!
Couple of points that pretty much sum it up to me:
1) 11 repeats in a 30 song setlist is not horrible at all. They rehearse a certain number of songs, and I don't really see an issue. The only song I had an issue with hearing repeated was No More, simply because he could have gotten the same point across with a song like Gimmie Some Truth or Here's to the State.
2) The MSG shows were a tough ticket, and add in the fact that the fan club tickets were limited (I don't think there were as many availabel this year) and the incresae in ticket prices, I think a lot of fan clubbers were only able to hit up one show.
They tried to please the masses by playing a rare song like All Night on both nights.
Couple of points that pretty much sum it up to me:
1) 11 repeats in a 30 song setlist is not horrible at all. They rehearse a certain number of songs, and I don't really see an issue. The only song I had an issue with hearing repeated was No More, simply because he could have gotten the same point across with a song like Gimmie Some Truth or Here's to the State.
2) The MSG shows were a tough ticket, and add in the fact that the fan club tickets were limited (I don't think there were as many availabel this year) and the incresae in ticket prices, I think a lot of fan clubbers were only able to hit up one show.
They tried to please the masses by playing a rare song like All Night on both nights.
It's actually only 9 repeats since Evenflow and Corduroy are played at every show.
This is a long shot but did anybody think that maybe they were filming the shows for some sort of release and wanted to do those songs over? Maybe they didn't like how they came out Night1 so they re-did them? Just a thought.
funny not one person has talked about the band repeating outfits
ugh
u guys should look at rocknrolldating.com and stop complaining that PJ, is repeating songs, I wish they were at msg every night singing the same songs, I'd b happy
people have to realize that for even a band as great as Pearl Jam, there's only so many songs you can rehearse and remember for a tour. I think there's more than enough variety with the setlists. with the exception of having to see No More War four times in a row, I enjoyed everything that was repeated.
funny not one person has talked about the band repeating outfits
ugh
u guys should look at rocknrolldating.com and stop complaining that PJ, is repeating songs, I wish they were at msg every night singing the same songs, I'd b happy
Well said. I fucking love this band and seeing them live is like a religious experience. I couldn't give a fuck if they repeated every song 3 nights in a row. I would still sing my heart out and soak up every minute of it. Stop fucking complaining and take the experience for what it is.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Well said. I fucking love this band and seeing them live is like a religious experience. I couldn't give a fuck if they repeated every song 3 nights in a row. I would still sing my heart out and soak up every minute of it. Stop fucking complaining and take the experience for what it is.
Comments
This might be getting off the subject, but the point of the Dead comparison never had anything to do with the style of music. It had more to do with the scene around it ... people caravanning from show to show, taking in whole tours, etc etc. That only happens with a small handful of bands. The Dead are one. PJ is another.
The comparison is a valid one.
Nobody ever said the two bands *sound* alike.
for the least they could possibly do
You didn't think Fonzie and crew were f'n hilarious?
for the least they could possibly do
I think the comparison also has to do with variety within shows, and I do think that his claim is correct that Pearl Jam sticks to the same song structures that they play. The only songs that they jam out to are the ones they always jam out to. (Porch, RVM, Crazy Mary, Daughter, Betterman, etc, etc) Not to complain though. I'm just saying that's how it is. I'd love to hear a Marker in the Sand jam out for instance on that outro, but it's just not going to happen (unless it's preplanned pre-tour in which case every time the play it, it will be jammed out on). Ed called WMA at MSG1 an "experiment." No it wasn't. It was played that way all tour. Again, not trying to take anything away from the Pearl Jam live show. In fact, I HATE the Dead, but the poster does have a point with his post.
-Reagan
i know huh..fucking Ed,not wanting to see our brothers/fathers/sons/daughters/mothers/sisters dying in the sand of a country we shouldn't be in,over lies!
fucking guy has some nerve!
sorry but i hate you ignorant assholes.i am always so peaceful and feeling the love vibe at the show until i hear the "shut up and sing Jeremy" fuck heads and it incites me to be violent!! luckily God grants me the strength to restrain myself from choking one of you stupid assholes.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the original poster just doesn't like the song, regardless of the message? I love when people use "god" and "asshole" in the same sentence. It says a lot about your religious conviction.
5/12/2006 Albany, NY
6/01/2006 E Rutherford, NJ
6/24/2008, NYC MSG, NY
6/25/2008, NYC MSG, NY
10/27/2009 Philli, PA Spectrum 1
5/21/2010 NYC MSG 2, NY
10/25/13 Hartford, Ct
I had a great time at all of the shows, and I have to think that's the most important thing. Would I have preferred a little more variety? Of course. But the shows were great, I got to hear a few tracks that I've missed in the past, and seeing Ace Frehley at MSG II was a real treat for someone who grew up a KISS fan.
Some people need to remember that we will never get an all rarities setlist, even at a fanclub show like the Vic. The band decides what to play,and either live with it, or don't go to the shows.
Others need to stop "defending" the band over what is an innocent enough topic for discussion. People have a right to comment on what they just paid to see.
Both camps seem to be a wee bit sensitive, no?
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
ya they suck......please
the grateful dead were, and continue to be (despite being gone for 13 years) the most successful touring live musical act in the history of music. not sure how you can suck, and hold that title
they suck and everyone was on drugs.....thats just ignorant.
dont cite their "sucking" as a reason for a new set with nearly zero repeats each night. its called the grateful dead have a HUGE CATALOG
you can have your opinion but dont throw out stupid comments like you did above.
Philadelphia -- 2005
Camden I -- 2006
Wash. DC -- 2006
Bonnaroo -- 2008
MSG II -- 2008
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
thats where the Greatful Dead comparisons end...the fans
nothing is ever good enough for anyone
No disrespect meant to Pearl Jam, my all time favorite band, bar none.
When it comes to touring bands, The Dead are, and will continue to be forever the gold standard. It isn't even close, they invented it!
AMEN BROTHER
Philadelphia -- 2005
Camden I -- 2006
Wash. DC -- 2006
Bonnaroo -- 2008
MSG II -- 2008
1) 11 repeats in a 30 song setlist is not horrible at all. They rehearse a certain number of songs, and I don't really see an issue. The only song I had an issue with hearing repeated was No More, simply because he could have gotten the same point across with a song like Gimmie Some Truth or Here's to the State.
2) The MSG shows were a tough ticket, and add in the fact that the fan club tickets were limited (I don't think there were as many availabel this year) and the incresae in ticket prices, I think a lot of fan clubbers were only able to hit up one show.
They tried to please the masses by playing a rare song like All Night on both nights.
It's actually only 9 repeats since Evenflow and Corduroy are played at every show.
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
Yay for him!
do you ever stop to think PERIOD??!!
quienes son ellos?
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
it is simple
not EVERYONE goes to shows back to back
that is it
my gosh
who cares
so they repeated songs
so what
funny not one person has talked about the band repeating outfits
ugh
u guys should look at rocknrolldating.com and stop complaining that PJ, is repeating songs, I wish they were at msg every night singing the same songs, I'd b happy
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Well said. I fucking love this band and seeing them live is like a religious experience. I couldn't give a fuck if they repeated every song 3 nights in a row. I would still sing my heart out and soak up every minute of it. Stop fucking complaining and take the experience for what it is.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Wow. You got me there. Good one!
i still think they should try to rap parts of W.M.A.
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are