Israel gives warning to Russia

100 Pacer

Open wrote:

Actually it does, you are not presenting the information in the context that it was originally presented....why?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

quotes attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by the ISNA (Iranian Students' News Agency)

Open

100 Pacer wrote:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

quotes attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by the ISNA (Iranian Students' News Agency)

So he's calling for regime change, as opposed the whole country to be wiped off the map?

As a peace loving person i would think that you would want to make that clarification or do you want another iraq in iran?

Nevermind

100 Pacer wrote:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

quotes attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by the ISNA (Iranian Students' News Agency)

Still wrong. He said wipe the Israeli REGIME off the map.

"Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem)."

100 Pacer

Open wrote:

So he's calling for regime change, as opposed the whole country to be wiped off the map?

As a peace loving person i would think that you would want to make that clarification or do you want another iraq in iran?

now i wasn't there but according to the Iranian students in the audience at the "World Without Zionism" conference, Ahmadinejad was calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map." - make of that what you will, since it's clearly open to interpretation according to Nevermind.

good night to all, up in 6 hours,...

and, yes, bring on PEACE!

Nevermind

100 Pacer wrote:

now i wasn't there but according to the Iranian students in the audience at the "World Without Zionism" conference, Ahmadinejad was calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map." - make of that what you will, since it's clearly open to interpretation according to Nevermind.

good night to all, up in 6 hours,...

and, yes, bring on PEACE!

What a fuckin joke. I posted the exact quote with translation and no where does it say wipe Israel off the map. It doesnt even say Israel.

Rider

He means that some Zionist-regime backing politicians told people what Ahmanawhatever supposedly said and he believed them then so now it's a fact.

Cosmo

Back to Soviet.. er... Russian Arms Sales to Iran and Syria...
How is that any different than U.S. sale of Arms to Israel? Other than we're the good guys... they're the bad guys.
I mean, look at it objectively... Yeah, that whole 'Wipe Israel of the map' thing... but, really... who has made First Strike attacks in that region?
Israel on Egypt in 1967
Egypt and Syria on Israel in 1973
Iraq on Iran in 1980
Israel on Iraq in 1981 (Osairak Nuclear Facility)
Iraq on Kuwait in 1990
U.S. on Iraq in 2003
...
As long as we arm Israel... they are going to get arms from Russia... or China.

fuck

Cosmo wrote:

Back to Soviet.. er... Russian Arms Sales to Iran and Syria...
How is that any different than U.S. sale of Arms to Israel? Other than we're the good guys... they're the bad guys.
I mean, look at it objectively... Yeah, that whole 'Wipe Israel of the map' thing... but, really... who has made First Strike attacks in that region?
Israel on Egypt in 1967
Egypt and Syria on Israel in 1973
Iraq on Iran in 1980
Israel on Iraq in 1981 (Osairak Nuclear Facility)
Iraq on Kuwait in 1990
U.S. on Iraq in 2003
...
As long as we arm Israel... they are going to get arms from Russia... or China.

not to mention the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, etc...

More so than this, how is this any different than Israel arming Georgia?

Oh, and by the way, Nevermind is correct. Ahmadinejad never called for Israel to be wiped off the map. That's a fabrication, made up by the media. In reality, Ahmadinejad was not only quoted Ayatollah Khomeini, but he was saying that the Zionist-regime will be wiped from the pages of history.

Iran has never called for any strikes on Israel, other than defensive retaliation if Israel were to attack it first.

Cosmo

People may think I'm siding with Iran... but, that is their problem.. not mine. I am just trying to view the thing outside the normal America-centric perspective.
U.S./Israel <|> Iran and the Arab States/Russia
...
The Arab and Persian states want arms... there's money to be made... we're always promoting free enterprise and capitalism... why wouldn't Russia... or China or someone else want to make the deal?
...
I wouldn't doubt if we were able to sell to both sides and get away with it... we would.

MrBrian

Cosmo wrote:

Back to Soviet.. er... Russian Arms Sales to Iran and Syria...
How is that any different than U.S. sale of Arms to Israel? Other than we're the good guys... they're the bad guys.
I mean, look at it objectively... Yeah, that whole 'Wipe Israel of the map' thing... but, really... who has made First Strike attacks in that region?
Israel on Egypt in 1967
Egypt and Syria on Israel in 1973
Iraq on Iran in 1980
Israel on Iraq in 1981 (Osairak Nuclear Facility)
Iraq on Kuwait in 1990
U.S. on Iraq in 2003
...
As long as we arm Israel... they are going to get arms from Russia... or China.

Right on, also I think it's fair to say that American arms sales to Israel is far worse than these defensive sales by the Russians to Iran/Syria

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/israel_armstable.htm

and that's an old toy list, even bigger sales came after 9/11

MrBrian

Now on the issue of this "Wipe Israel off the Map" thing, as it's been stated/proved many times. The entire meaning was American propaganda.

But fine, let's pretend he did say it, "Wipe Israel off the map", does anyone really think he could or would really do it? and how? All the propaganda people will have you believe that it all would be done with a nuke. But really, basic logic should kick in at this point, I mean a nuke on Israel would kill Palestinians also. You nutters really think that he would do that? Even if he hates Israel so much....

fuck

MrBrian wrote:

But fine, let's pretend he did say it, "Wipe Israel off the map"

I know your point was to show that either way, it'd make no sense for him to say it, but don't even fall prey to these ridiculous tactics that these people resort to to try to excuse all of Israel's actions, while try to make Iran out to be some rogue nation who wants to kill everyone.

MrBrian

_outlaw wrote:

, but don't even fall prey to these ridiculous tactics that these people resort to to try to excuse all of Israel's actions, while try to make Iran out to be some rogue nation who wants to kill everyone.

I'm not and will not fall prey to anything like this, don't worry about me. I'm even confident enough in pretending he said it, bcoz I know that whatever way you look at the issue, it just does not add up (wipe israel off the map)

I know the truth, so I have no worries debating any side and as I stated, we know what was really said and the meaning behind it.

Cosmo

MrBrian wrote:

Now on the issue of this "Wipe Israel off the Map" thing, as it's been stated/proved many times. The entire meaning was American propaganda.

But fine, let's pretend he did say it, "Wipe Israel off the map", does anyone really think he could or would really do it? and how? All the propaganda people will have you believe that it all would be done with a nuke. But really, basic logic should kick in at this point, I mean a nuke on Israel would kill Palestinians also. You nutters really think that he would do that? Even if he hates Israel so much....

...
The Iranian Military is a bigger joke than the iraqi Military. The parade around old F-14s and F-4s left over from the Shah days... and they don't even fly. The look cool... getting towed behind a donkey cart... but, they don't fly.
...
And during the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq Quagmire... their policy was, 'Can you drive a truck? Good. You fly the C-130'. And no one fucking touched them damn helicopters.
Pretty much... Iraq.. Saddam's Iraq... could still... kick their... have a sissy slap fight with them.

cincybearcat

MrBrian wrote:

Do not sell arms to Iran and Syria because it is “destabilizing and dangerous for Israel"

The Russian response?...they are being sold as a defensive measure and that the systems sold are designed to shoot down aircraft and missiles.

Now why would Israel be so upset about this? I mean they have nothing to worry about unless they enter syrian or Iranian airspace.

You seriously don;t know why they'd be concerned?

So you have no problem with the USA putting missle defense shields in Poland, etc then?

cincybearcat

_outlaw wrote:

I know your point was to show that either way, it'd make no sense for him to say it, but don't even fall prey to these ridiculous tactics that these people resort to to try to excuse all of Israel's actions, while try to make Iran out to be some rogue nation who wants to kill everyone.

Yep, because as you have always stated it is Israel that is the rogue nation that wants to kill everyone, right? Ridiculous tactics indeed.

fuck

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep, because as you have always stated it is Israel that is the rogue nation that wants to kill everyone, right? Ridiculous tactics indeed.

find where I said that.

rebornFixer

cincy has a point ... It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who balk at American, Israel, or "Western" military projects get all worked up whenever someone says that the Russians or China should not sell weapons to so-called rogue states. Are you guys anti-military expansion in general, or are you anti-Western/pro-Islamic extremist/whatever ideology lurks beneath the rants? I'd like someone to admit it, come clean already, or else write more carefully ...

MrBrian

I don't have a problem with Iran getting help to protect itself from an attack.
An attack that they must believe is coming, based on all the American/Israeli threats.

rebornFixer

MrBrian wrote:

I don't have a problem with Iran getting help to protect itself from an attack.
An attack that they must believe is coming, based on all the American/Israeli threats.

I have a problem with Iran acquiring any sort of sophicated weaponry. If they are that worried about an attack, they can take other sorts of action that do not involve further armaments. Sorry, but my general view is that more weapons into an already volatile region is a bullshit response akin to throwing gasoline on a fire. And that goes for arms sales to Israel, too. These nations should not receive more military hardware at this point in time. I find it quite difficult to fathom Russia's motives here, other than a general desire to become the new Soviet Union (i.e., a power capable of flipping the West the bird, so to speak ... That's what Georgia was about).