It is a pretty strange combination in this country with a combination of racism and oversensitivity.
yeah it is, but I think oversensitivity often wins, which is'nt really a good thing. It's just a form of being a fake. Oversensitive people often turn out to be very fake kinds of people. very empty, that's why they feel that they have to overcompensate with all the sensitivity on the racial front stuff, or any front for that matter.
yeah it is, but I think oversensitivity often wins, which is'nt really a good thing. It's just a form of being a fake. Oversensitive people often turn out to be very fake kinds of people. very empty, that's why they feel that they have to overcompensate with all the sensitivity on the racial front stuff, or any front for that matter.
I think that the average white rich girl who summers in the Hamptons family would be just as unhappy about her dating a black man as the guy in South Georgia in a trailer park whose daughter dates a black man. I think they would handle it differently but racism is still racism.
I think racism is definitely linked to class status as well.
I think that the average white rich girl who summers in the Hamptons family would be just as unhappy about her dating a black man as the guy in South Georgia in a trailer park whose daughter dates a black man. I think they would handle it differently but racism is still racism.
I think racism is definitely linked to class status as well.
honestly i think there would generally be more of a problem in this specific example if the person was poor, white or black. and we know that chances are a black person is more likely to be poor. not that there aren't any racial issues around here, but i think with the summer in hamptons example there would be a bigger class issue.
don't forget that a lot of people who summer in the hamptons are nyc liberals, and if these recent threads are any indication they're likely to be "vomit-inducing" pc police.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I went to a school in California that prided itself on being open minded and liberal. During orientation, we were told that they were a diverse campus. We were then informed that people can only understand people of their own race and that should be their group of friends to help promote diversity. To me, this idea was effectively trying to keep the races separate.
I never attended any schools in California. In Ohio, my university was pretty good at encouraging people to mix it up - at least, I think they were pretty good at it. I never did pay much attention during orientation. I much preferred being disoriented.
In high school, also in Ohio, my school prided itself on being all white. Not officially, mind you, but definately pride. Of course, there was also something of a Confederate Flag fetish going around there at the time, too, curiously enough. I must say, if you're from and live in a Northern State and you adorn yourself, home, or vehicle with Confederate flags, you aren't doing it out of "cultural awareness." So, perhaps there's a bit of a disconnect there. Why do so many Northerners think the South is racist? Maybe it's because so many Northern racists like to wave that old Southern flag.
In the end, though, I can only speak of my own experiences with certainty. And in my experience, I've come across more people I'd consider prejudiced in the rural South than the rural North - using my own preconcieved regulators and per-capita measurements, of course. But, I do find it everywhere, and without fail.
yeah it is, but I think oversensitivity often wins, which is'nt really a good thing. It's just a form of being a fake. Oversensitive people often turn out to be very fake kinds of people. very empty, that's why they feel that they have to overcompensate with all the sensitivity on the racial front stuff, or any front for that matter.
Agreed. I think anyone who has an extreme reaction to racial issues, in either direction, might very well have some problems of their own.
In high school, also in Ohio, my school prided itself on being all white. Not officially, mind you, but definately pride. Of course, there was also something of a Confederate Flag fetish going around there at the time, too, curiously enough. I must say, if you're from and live in a Northern State and you adorn yourself, home, or vehicle with Confederate flags, you aren't doing it out of "cultural awareness." So, perhaps there's a bit of a disconnect there. Why do so many Northerners think the South is racist? Maybe it's because so many Northern racists like to wave that old Southern flag.
I don't know what to make of this ... I mean, honestly ... The school "prides itself on being all-white"? Maybe it does, but it must be pretty covert pride in this day and age.
I don't know what to make of this ... I mean, honestly ... The school "prides itself on being all-white"? Maybe it does, but it must be pretty covert pride in this day and age.
Like I said, it wasn't "official" pride, but it was certainly there. Of course, there are a few things that need to be considered. Namely, my graduating class consisted of all of 60 people, my hometown isn't even big enough to have a stop light, and I attended that school from 1988 to 1992 (is that considered "this day and age?).
Like I said, it wasn't "official" pride, but it was certainly there. Of course, there are a few things that need to be considered. Namely, my graduating class consisted of all of 60 people, my hometown isn't even big enough to have a stop light, and I attended that school from 1988 to 1992 (is that considered "this day and age?).
Were you in the movie Hoosiers?
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
its a critique of american ideals. We so often think of non industrialized or non civilized nations like kazakstan as backward and the people that live there as being savages or non civilized.
What borat found when he came to america, was homophobia, racism, sexism etc...
its a social critique of america. There is no question this film is wildly popular, the question though remains,
will people understand this is a satire, and a political film
Cheers to borat for sticking it to american audiences. This is our society folks, he didnt show us anything new really new, just made the points and ideas more stark and stunning. This is what we are to the rest of the world folks! The laim that we are free and independent and great falls on deaf ears. Just watch the film
Then start overthrowing the existing order. Is this really the image we want for our children? Is this what america has come to symbolize? Racism, sexism and homophobia? The answers extremely clear
Like I said, it wasn't "official" pride, but it was certainly there. Of course, there are a few things that need to be considered. Namely, my graduating class consisted of all of 60 people, my hometown isn't even big enough to have a stop light, and I attended that school from 1988 to 1992 (is that considered "this day and age?).
Maybe people will disagree with me, but I too am from a small town, and I think "provincialism" is perhaps a better term for how these people tend to view others, as opposed to "racism". Maybe provincialism isn't the best word ... Basically, I think that any type of difference, be it racial or whatever, is viewed with some skepticism by really homogenous communities of people.
Its not just white communities, either. Go to Chinatown here in Calgary. Its a place I happen to love, but I do get treated like an outsider (with a few exceptions). Rather than freak out and view all these folks as hardcore racists, I am inclined to rationalize their behaviors as part and parcel of living in a fairly cloistered community. Incidentally, if anyone wants to know what being treated as an outsider feels like, try going into a very ethnic enclave in a big city, and do some shopping. If you really have guts, go to a place of worship. I have found it to be a bit of a character-building experience, but its something I feel has made me a more tolerant person. If you don't take it too personally, its a good time, very enriching. Of course, I've always kind of loved Asian culture.
Maybe people will disagree with me, but I too am from a small town, and I think "provincialism" is perhaps a better term for how these people tend to view others, as opposed to "racism". Maybe provincialism isn't the best word ... Basically, I think that any type of difference, be it racial or whatever, is viewed with some skepticism by really homogenous communities of people.
You're right in that there was very little appreciation for difference. However, when people wave the Confederate flag (in Ohio) on the 4th of July, when the word "nigger" is in their daily vernacular, when black teenagers visiting from a neighboring town are literally chased out by members of the football team, when race fights brake out on the median strip, then the appropriate word is "racism."
As for the rest of your post, unless I feel like I'm in "danger" of some kind, I actually like going to places where I feel like an outsider. I'm at least assured that I'll see and hear things I wouldn't otherwise.
Or maybe it makes me nostalgic for the days when I attended that high school.
LOL. There is indeed a term for us White Asian wannebes ... Cannot remember what it is. Its in the urban dictionary, I believe.
wait. maybe you are too, but i was thinking more along the lines of white wannabe with asians. but like you said, i'm sure there's a term for that in the urban dictionary as well.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
You're right in that there was very little appreciation for difference. However, when people wave the Confederate flag (in Ohio) on the 4th of July, when the word "nigger" is in their daily vernacular, when black teenagers visiting from a neighboring town are literally chased out by members of the football team, when race fights brake out on the median strip, then the appropriate word is "racism."
As for the rest of your post, unless I feel like I'm in "danger" of some kind, I actually like going to places where I feel like an outsider. I'm at least assured that I'll see and hear things I wouldn't otherwise.
Or maybe it makes me nostalgic for the days when I attended that high school.
Believe it or not, the Confederate flag doesn't have to be a racist symbol ... Granted, it often is used and thought of as such. "Nigger" has become a part of daily vernacular for a lot of white people who listen to hip hop. Does that mean they are all a bunch of raging racists? That word is more or less offensive depending on how its used, IMHO. Not saying that your town wasn't racist, either. Its hard to argue with your other points. Just saying that its not unique to small town America.
Believe it or not, the Confederate flag doesn't have to be a racist symbol ... Granted, it often is used and thought of as such. "Nigger" has become a part of daily vernacular for a lot of white people who listen to hip hop. Does that mean they are all a bunch of raging racists? That word is more or less offensive depending on how its used, IMHO. Not saying that your town wasn't racist, either. Its hard to argue with your other points. Just saying that its not unique to small town America.
We also had a restaurant named "The Three Ks" - though I think that's since been changed (if it's even still there). Of course, that one might have been a coincidence.
I'm not going to completely disagree about the Confederate flag. Remember, though, that I knew these people - and as I said, it has been my experience that people in Northern states who wave Confederate flags are using it as such.
White people who listen to hip hop and say "what's up, my niggas" aren't necessarily racist. White people who don't listen to hip hop and say things like, "man, they're nothin' but a bunch of fucking niggers" probably are. I am occasionally capable of picking up on context.
The place has gotten better though (that, or I'm just not seeing the right things anymore when I visit). Modernization, it seems, eventually reaches every corner.
White people who listen to hip hop and say "what's up, my niggas" aren't necessarily racist. White people who don't listen to hip hop and say things like, "man, they're nothin' but a bunch of fucking niggers" probably are. I am occasionally capable of picking up on context.
Cool, cool ...
Wasn't trying to imply that you're a moron.
That Three Ks thing made my mouth drop ... Let's hope that was just an unfortunate coincidence.
its a critique of american ideals. We so often think of non industrialized or non civilized nations like kazakstan as backward and the people that live there as being savages or non civilized.
What borat found when he came to america, was homophobia, racism, sexism etc...
its a social critique of america. There is no question this film is wildly popular, the question though remains,
will people understand this is a satire, and a political film
Cheers to borat for sticking it to american audiences. This is our society folks, he didnt show us anything new really new, just made the points and ideas more stark and stunning. This is what we are to the rest of the world folks! The laim that we are free and independent and great falls on deaf ears. Just watch the film
Then start overthrowing the existing order. Is this really the image we want for our children? Is this what america has come to symbolize? Racism, sexism and homophobia? The answers extremely clear
I totally agree with Che. This film highlights many themes but I'm afraid most people let them slip through their minds.
Etnocentrism is the way USA percieves itself, always has, but nowadays it is becoming painfully clear and countries with less power know that very well. Europe with colonialism was not far behind.
Here is the etnocentrism idea: The ones that were not like "us" are not living the "right" way, therefore we must show them how to be "civilised", so we could live together. Then "we" must be awarded for "helping" them. One way is "generously" let them work for us. They must always be grateful and if possible look and live like us, but if they become us, well...they can never be us, because they are different! Modern means smarter. Religion with one god is the true religion, the one with more gods is a myth, a stage before turning to one god. etc etc..
I could go on and on. This thought was limping with western civilisation and is still present today. Nothing is better. There are just different ways. But It seems we cant stand that. When it is far away everything is ok. We are fascinated, we go to vacation and dance to their music, eat their food and practice their believes but if they come to close we are endangered somehow..WHY???
I hope someday we could answer that.Maybe it has to do with power or possesions, or ideas that are so colectively interwined that it's hard to by-pass them.
If we could answer it, then maybe we could fix it. So much things could be different...Capitalism is wrong, democracy is ruled by individuals, corporations and USA are pretty much ruling the world...It so f**** up. Racism exsist even though there is greater genetic diversity among etnic groups then between two of them.
Well after we devided the air and drew imaginary lines it's clear..we're capable of anything.
I'm sorry about my english. If things would be different maybe I could write in my own language and you would understand it, as I understand english.
Borat is a great movie. I hope next one from Sacha is more critical and more clear. He is very talented and doing so much for the Jews...hands down..
The worst enemies of music? Money and Mathematics. Combined with music, they both do the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do. Money makes music cheap, mathematics makes it stupid and predictable.
____
Zagreb 2006/ Munich 2007/ Venice 2007/ Berlin 2009 / Venice 2010 / 2 x Berlin 2012 / Stockholm 2012 / Milan 2014 / Trieste 2014 / Vienna 2014 / Florence (EV) 2019 / Padova 2018 / Prague 2018 / Imola 2022 / Budapest 2022 / Vienna 2022 / Prague 2022
I totally agree with Che. This film highlights many themes but I'm afraid most people let them slip through their minds.
Etnocentrism is the way USA percieves itself, always has, but nowadays it is becoming painfully clear and countries with less power know that very well. Europe with colonialism was not far behind.
Here is the etnocentrism idea: The ones that were not like "us" are not living the "right" way, therefore we must show them how to be "civilised", so we could live together. Then "we" must be awarded for "helping" them. One way is "generously" let them work for us. They must always be grateful and if possible look and live like us, but if they become us, well...they can never be us, because they are different! Modern means smarter. Religion with one god is the true religion, the one with more gods is a myth, a stage before turning to one god. etc etc..
I could go on and on. This thought was limping with western civilisation and is still present today. Nothing is better. There are just different ways. But It seems we cant stand that. When it is far away everything is ok. We are fascinated, we go to vacation and dance to their music, eat their food and practice their believes but if they come to close we are endangered somehow..WHY???
I hope someday we could answer that.Maybe it has to do with power or possesions, or ideas that are so colectively interwined that it's hard to by-pass them.
If we could answer it, then maybe we could fix it. So much things could be different...Capitalism is wrong, democracy is ruled by individuals, corporations and USA are pretty much ruling the world...It so f**** up. Racism exsist even though there is greater genetic diversity among etnic groups then between two of them.
Well after we devided the air and drew imaginary lines it's clear..we're capable of anything.
I'm sorry about my english. If things would be different maybe I could write in my own language and you would understand it, as I understand english.
Borat is a great movie. I hope next one from Sacha is more critical and more clear. He is very talented and doing so much for the Jews...hands down..
Great post. I'd simply like to add that this movie made me disgusted of my country. People in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are offended by this movie, but they should realize that this movie is poking fun at the US more than Kyrgyzstan or wherever. And the people that are being exposed as bigots are the same demographic that voted for Bush. Unfortunately its a large portion of our country.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
There was a four page interview with Baron-Cohen in yesterday's Independent. Came across as an extremely intelligent man, also gave a lot of insight into the origins of Ali G.
I think cohen (the actor playing borat) developed this chracter to prove that people hate jews,
Like he's trying to prove a point. anyone else think so?
sadly some people DO hate jew's.and muslim's.and christian's. Religion aint the issue.its about making fun out a the USA.That Boret guy is a dick,if he came to my town an sung some bullshit song the folks would of kicked his ass.but I wouldent go see this movie.It looks prety lame imo.
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
sadly some people DO hate jew's.and muslim's.and christian's. Religion aint the issue.its about making fun out a the USA.That Boret guy is a dick,if he came to my town an sung some bullshit song the folks would of kicked his ass.but I wouldent go see this movie.It looks prety lame imo.
Well that's a good way to disprove his point that americans are hostile and ignorant. Beat his ass. That'll show him just how culturally rounded you are.
The quote from the mayor was the best thing I've read in ages.
"They got paid, so I'm sure they'll be alright"
Priceless
"Indeed, when local vice-mayor Petre Buzea was asked whether the people felt offended by Baron Cohen's film, he replied: 'They got paid so I am sure they are happy. These gipsies will even kill their own father for money.'"
"Indeed, when local vice-mayor Petre Buzea was asked whether the people felt offended by Baron Cohen's film, he replied: 'They got paid so I am sure they are happy. These gipsies will even kill their own father for money.'"
Another great example from the news the other night:
A Kazak goatherder (seriously) was interviewed about Borat. His response was translated as something like "We Kazaks are tolerant, nice people ... But I still think Borat should be killed, straightaway".
Another great example from the news the other night:
A Kazak goatherder (seriously) was interviewed about Borat. His response was translated as something like "We Kazaks are tolerant, nice people ... But I still think Borat should be killed, straightaway".
Comments
yeah it is, but I think oversensitivity often wins, which is'nt really a good thing. It's just a form of being a fake. Oversensitive people often turn out to be very fake kinds of people. very empty, that's why they feel that they have to overcompensate with all the sensitivity on the racial front stuff, or any front for that matter.
I fully agree.
I think racism is definitely linked to class status as well.
honestly i think there would generally be more of a problem in this specific example if the person was poor, white or black. and we know that chances are a black person is more likely to be poor. not that there aren't any racial issues around here, but i think with the summer in hamptons example there would be a bigger class issue.
don't forget that a lot of people who summer in the hamptons are nyc liberals, and if these recent threads are any indication they're likely to be "vomit-inducing" pc police.
cross the river to the eastside
In high school, also in Ohio, my school prided itself on being all white. Not officially, mind you, but definately pride. Of course, there was also something of a Confederate Flag fetish going around there at the time, too, curiously enough. I must say, if you're from and live in a Northern State and you adorn yourself, home, or vehicle with Confederate flags, you aren't doing it out of "cultural awareness." So, perhaps there's a bit of a disconnect there. Why do so many Northerners think the South is racist? Maybe it's because so many Northern racists like to wave that old Southern flag.
In the end, though, I can only speak of my own experiences with certainty. And in my experience, I've come across more people I'd consider prejudiced in the rural South than the rural North - using my own preconcieved regulators and per-capita measurements, of course. But, I do find it everywhere, and without fail.
Agreed. I think anyone who has an extreme reaction to racial issues, in either direction, might very well have some problems of their own.
I don't know what to make of this ... I mean, honestly ... The school "prides itself on being all-white"? Maybe it does, but it must be pretty covert pride in this day and age.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p20s01-almo.html
Were you in the movie Hoosiers?
What borat found when he came to america, was homophobia, racism, sexism etc...
its a social critique of america. There is no question this film is wildly popular, the question though remains,
will people understand this is a satire, and a political film
Cheers to borat for sticking it to american audiences. This is our society folks, he didnt show us anything new really new, just made the points and ideas more stark and stunning. This is what we are to the rest of the world folks! The laim that we are free and independent and great falls on deaf ears. Just watch the film
Then start overthrowing the existing order. Is this really the image we want for our children? Is this what america has come to symbolize? Racism, sexism and homophobia? The answers extremely clear
Maybe people will disagree with me, but I too am from a small town, and I think "provincialism" is perhaps a better term for how these people tend to view others, as opposed to "racism". Maybe provincialism isn't the best word ... Basically, I think that any type of difference, be it racial or whatever, is viewed with some skepticism by really homogenous communities of people.
Its not just white communities, either. Go to Chinatown here in Calgary. Its a place I happen to love, but I do get treated like an outsider (with a few exceptions). Rather than freak out and view all these folks as hardcore racists, I am inclined to rationalize their behaviors as part and parcel of living in a fairly cloistered community. Incidentally, if anyone wants to know what being treated as an outsider feels like, try going into a very ethnic enclave in a big city, and do some shopping. If you really have guts, go to a place of worship. I have found it to be a bit of a character-building experience, but its something I feel has made me a more tolerant person. If you don't take it too personally, its a good time, very enriching. Of course, I've always kind of loved Asian culture.
thanks, that was a good read.
yeah i know a lot of guys like you.
i'm totally kidding.
cross the river to the eastside
LOL. There is indeed a term for us White Asian wannebes ... Cannot remember what it is. Its in the urban dictionary, I believe.
As for the rest of your post, unless I feel like I'm in "danger" of some kind, I actually like going to places where I feel like an outsider. I'm at least assured that I'll see and hear things I wouldn't otherwise.
Or maybe it makes me nostalgic for the days when I attended that high school.
wait. maybe you are too, but i was thinking more along the lines of white wannabe with asians.
cross the river to the eastside
Believe it or not, the Confederate flag doesn't have to be a racist symbol ... Granted, it often is used and thought of as such. "Nigger" has become a part of daily vernacular for a lot of white people who listen to hip hop. Does that mean they are all a bunch of raging racists? That word is more or less offensive depending on how its used, IMHO. Not saying that your town wasn't racist, either. Its hard to argue with your other points. Just saying that its not unique to small town America.
I'm not going to completely disagree about the Confederate flag. Remember, though, that I knew these people - and as I said, it has been my experience that people in Northern states who wave Confederate flags are using it as such.
White people who listen to hip hop and say "what's up, my niggas" aren't necessarily racist. White people who don't listen to hip hop and say things like, "man, they're nothin' but a bunch of fucking niggers" probably are. I am occasionally capable of picking up on context.
The place has gotten better though (that, or I'm just not seeing the right things anymore when I visit). Modernization, it seems, eventually reaches every corner.
Cool, cool ...
Wasn't trying to imply that you're a moron.
That Three Ks thing made my mouth drop ... Let's hope that was just an unfortunate coincidence.
I totally agree with Che. This film highlights many themes but I'm afraid most people let them slip through their minds.
Etnocentrism is the way USA percieves itself, always has, but nowadays it is becoming painfully clear and countries with less power know that very well. Europe with colonialism was not far behind.
Here is the etnocentrism idea: The ones that were not like "us" are not living the "right" way, therefore we must show them how to be "civilised", so we could live together. Then "we" must be awarded for "helping" them. One way is "generously" let them work for us. They must always be grateful and if possible look and live like us, but if they become us, well...they can never be us, because they are different! Modern means smarter. Religion with one god is the true religion, the one with more gods is a myth, a stage before turning to one god. etc etc..
I could go on and on. This thought was limping with western civilisation and is still present today. Nothing is better. There are just different ways. But It seems we cant stand that. When it is far away everything is ok. We are fascinated, we go to vacation and dance to their music, eat their food and practice their believes but if they come to close we are endangered somehow..WHY???
I hope someday we could answer that.Maybe it has to do with power or possesions, or ideas that are so colectively interwined that it's hard to by-pass them.
If we could answer it, then maybe we could fix it. So much things could be different...Capitalism is wrong, democracy is ruled by individuals, corporations and USA are pretty much ruling the world...It so f**** up. Racism exsist even though there is greater genetic diversity among etnic groups then between two of them.
Well after we devided the air and drew imaginary lines it's clear..we're capable of anything.
I'm sorry about my english. If things would be different maybe I could write in my own language and you would understand it, as I understand english.
Borat is a great movie. I hope next one from Sacha is more critical and more clear. He is very talented and doing so much for the Jews...hands down..
____
Zagreb 2006/ Munich 2007/ Venice 2007/ Berlin 2009 / Venice 2010 / 2 x Berlin 2012 / Stockholm 2012 / Milan 2014 / Trieste 2014 / Vienna 2014 / Florence (EV) 2019 / Padova 2018 / Prague 2018 / Imola 2022 / Budapest 2022 / Vienna 2022 / Prague 2022
Great post. I'd simply like to add that this movie made me disgusted of my country. People in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are offended by this movie, but they should realize that this movie is poking fun at the US more than Kyrgyzstan or wherever. And the people that are being exposed as bigots are the same demographic that voted for Bush. Unfortunately its a large portion of our country.
well he's quite an interesting guy
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/sacha_baron_cohen_the_real_borat_finally_speaks
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
Well that's a good way to disprove his point that americans are hostile and ignorant. Beat his ass. That'll show him just how culturally rounded you are.
"Indeed, when local vice-mayor Petre Buzea was asked whether the people felt offended by Baron Cohen's film, he replied: 'They got paid so I am sure they are happy. These gipsies will even kill their own father for money.'"
Another great example from the news the other night:
A Kazak goatherder (seriously) was interviewed about Borat. His response was translated as something like "We Kazaks are tolerant, nice people ... But I still think Borat should be killed, straightaway".
dude don't lie! that's just too funny.