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Rabbi Against Israel (Fox news interview)

MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
edited October 2010 in A Moving Train
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE

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Comments

  • CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    MrBrian wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE

    --

    He's very cogent.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    he's entitled to his opinion. As a Jew I can tell you that it is the minority jewish opinion but it is certainly valid for him to think that.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    dayan wrote:
    he's entitled to his opinion. As a Jew I can tell you that it is the minority jewish opinion but it is certainly valid for him to think that.

    so then let me ask you this, why do you think israel should exist? Is it fair to take someone elses home? Is it fair to oppress another people? This is what israel is and what it does.

    If peace can only happen with the return of land and the right of return for the palestinian people then don't you think that should be the goal?
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    well first let me say that I resent the fact that you expect me to defend the right of the Jewish people to self-determination. why does England have a right to exist? why does France? Why do the Palestinians have a right to a state? the reason is because they understand themselves to be a unique nation and seek to express their right to create a political community in which they, as a nation, will control their own fate. The same is true of the Jewish people. the fact that not all Jews subscribe to this desire doesn't invalidate it. not all Americans want to live in America or are American patriots. that doesn't mean America has no right to exist. second I would say that you have put your finger on the root cause of the conflict but not in the way you think. the cause of the conflict is that the arab world has never accepted Israel's right to exist. right of return, borders, water resources, etc, that's all details. that can be worked out, but only once the arab world accepts that not only that Israel is a fact that they can't change though they would sorely like to, but that Israel has just as much right to exist as any Palestinian state does.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Well you see, France, England and such already exist, I mean they are independent. Israel has yet to reach that stage, since it's creation it has struggled to gain acceptance, mainly due to the way it was created. (not that america came about in peaceful ways or anything but it is still obvious that many changes need to happen in america)

    At what point will the zionists say "I don't think this is working out for us". Know what I mean? Remember that the Palestinians are made up of not only Muslims and in palestine Muslims,jews and christians lived in relative peace with one another.

    The Jewish people should be allowed to live where they want without fear of persecution but it is wrong for them to persecute another people to reach this goal. It just does'nt make sense.
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    MrBrian wrote:

    If peace can only happen with the return of land and the right of return for the palestinian people then don't you think that should be the goal?

    Maybe that is the problem. Why is it that Israel should concede the right to return? You could look at it from the other side and say, peace will only exist when the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world recognize Israel's right to exist.

    There are two partners in making peace. You can't make the argument that Israel is the only one holding up the process. Right now, the Palestinians have a government that doesn't even recognize Israel.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    yosi wrote:
    Maybe that is the problem. Why is it that Israel should concede the right to return? You could look at it from the other side and say, peace will only exist when the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world recognize Israel's right to exist.

    There are two partners in making peace. You can't make the argument that Israel is the only one holding up the process. Right now, the Palestinians have a government that doesn't even recognize Israel.

    Well the Israeli government is constantly grabbing land, they have so much control over the people of palestine, pretty much locked up in a big cage.

    Israel should concede to the right of return because that is what's fair. Also I have many issues with Arab countries, the saudis for example, you can hardly get more corrupt then them, I think the entire royal family should be locked up for the crimes and oppression it inflicts on it's own people.
  • A Surprise LeftA Surprise Left Posts: 743
    The Israelis have lived in that part of the land since biblical times and were exiled for about 2000 years after Nero sacked Jerusalem. The Israelis and the Palastians have a right to that land.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    yosi wrote:
    Why is it that Israel should concede the right to return?
    Maybe because 'return' implies palestinians/arabs/non-jews were there before and therefore it is their land, their home that has been taken away from them? You may want the arabs to recognise israel's right to exist, but for some of them (quite a number of them actually), it is their home, not some 'invader's' homeland. They have been exiled and are now living as refugees in other countries. Israel may be afraid to concede the right to return as, should all refugees return, israel may no longer be a completely jewish state.
  • the facethe face Posts: 192
    MrBrian wrote:
    so then let me ask you this, why do you think israel should exist? Is it fair to take someone elses home? Is it fair to oppress another people? This is what israel is and what it does.

    If peace can only happen with the return of land and the right of return for the palestinian people then don't you think that should be the goal?

    what about pearl jam attracts anti semites? i dont get it. another one...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    the face wrote:
    what about pearl jam attracts anti semites? i dont get it. another one...


    Do you consider anyone who critisizes Israel an anti-semite. I don't see anything in Mr. Brian'sposts that even remotely stinks of anti-semitism.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • the facethe face Posts: 192
    redrock wrote:
    Maybe because 'return' implies palestinians/arabs/non-jews were there before and therefore it is their land, their home that has been taken away from them? You may want the arabs to recognise israel's right to exist, but for some of them (quite a number of them actually), it is their home, not some 'invader's' homeland. They have been exiled and are now living as refugees in other countries. Israel may be afraid to concede the right to return as, should all refugees return, israel may no longer be a completely jewish state.
    having just returned from israel i can tell you first hand, unlike the hate mongers on this board, there are plenty of arabs living peacefully in israel today. from reading actual books, many palestinians fled during the many wars of arab aggression. their land was co-opted not just by israel but by jordan and egypt as well up until 1967. the palestinians were run out of jordan by King Hussein because they were such barbarcic fucks. they were then run out of lebanon by israel and the lebaneese. so to lay blame just at israel is just the same old scape goating of jews that has gone on for thousands of years. now that same hate comes in the form of anti - zionism. just ask ahmadnijad.
  • qtegirlqtegirl Posts: 321
    I was following your argument well until right here:
    the face wrote:
    the palestinians were run out of jordan by King Hussein because they were such barbarcic fucks.

    Then your true feelings come out.

    Edit: you call others in this board ant-semites. What are you?
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    I could post the link of the palestinian who coverted and went against the palestinian cause.

    but what does it mean?
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • the facethe face Posts: 192
    mammasan wrote:
    Do you consider anyone who critisizes Israel an anti-semite. I don't see anything in Mr. Brian'sposts that even remotely stinks of anti-semitism.

    It's subtle anti semitism. Even Martin Luther King said we should not be confused that to be anti zionist is to be anti semitic. The word zionism has been twisted by haters to mean something that it does not. It only means that the Jewish people, butchered for their religious beliefs for thousands of years in Europe in many countries, should have a land of their own they can live in peace. It does not mean the palestinians dont have that same right. That view simply distorts truth and history of which many of these so called anti sionists dont have a grasp of. Why wouldn't it be anti semitic to make the charge that the jews have no right to live in their historically recongized homeland when most of the international community already believes they have that right, and thus provided for the creation of the State of Israel after the near destruction of the Jewish people at the hands of the Germans and their allies? The concept of Israel simply means a safe place for jews to live. Thats all zionism is. And it is fair to presume that if you have a problem with that, deep down, you are simply an anti semite trying to be politcally correct.
  • the facethe face Posts: 192
    MrBrian wrote:
    so then let me ask you this, why do you think israel should exist? Is it fair to take someone elses home? Is it fair to oppress another people? This is what israel is and what it does.

    If peace can only happen with the return of land and the right of return for the palestinian people then don't you think that should be the goal?

    this quote shows a total lack of understanding of the issue and is latently anti semitic. israel declared its independence pursuant to a UN directive and was then attacked from all sides by every arab country and from within by the palestinians. the arabs lost, and lost, and lost every single war of aggression against israel. so now they are oppressors? because they beat back every attempt to destroy them yet again? call them what you want. i call them survivors.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    It's subtle anti semitism. Even Martin Luther King said we should not be confused that to be anti zionist is to be anti semitic. The word zionism has been twisted by haters to mean something that it does not. It only means that the Jewish people, butchered for their religious beliefs for thousands of years in Europe in many countries, should have a land of their own they can live in peace. It does not mean the palestinians dont have that same right. That view simply distorts truth and history of which many of these so called anti sionists dont have a grasp of. Why wouldn't it be anti semitic to make the charge that the jews have no right to live in their historically recongized homeland when most of the international community already believes they have that right, and thus provided for the creation of the State of Israel after the near destruction of the Jewish people at the hands of the Germans and their allies? The concept of Israel simply means a safe place for jews to live. Thats all zionism is. And it is fair to presume that if you have a problem with that, deep down, you are simply an anti semite trying to be politcally correct.

    Martin Luther King was a bigot. His reasoning was that the Jews are God's chosen people. Uh, I don't believe in God, so that's a bunch of nonsense. Not everyone in the world buys into the God delusion. I also know from reading the Bible and the Talmud that the Jews were banished by God, they lost God's favor.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • the facethe face Posts: 192
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Martin Luther King was a bigot. His reasoning was that the Jews are God's chosen people. Uh, I don't believe in God, so that's a bunch of nonsense. Not everyone in the world buys into the God delusion. I also know from reading the Bible and the Talmud that the Jews were banished by God, they lost God's favor.
    I see the Brown Shirts have arrived. MLK a racist now? wow. No depths to your depravity. So you read the talmud ey? When pigs fly will I believe that. And if if your talking about the bible you can only be referring to the biggoted views of the new testament, becasue that ain't in the old one.
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    the face wrote:
    this quote shows a total lack of understanding of the issue and is latently anti semitic. israel declared its independence pursuant to a UN directive and was then attacked from all sides by every arab country and from within by the palestinians. the arabs lost, and lost, and lost every single war of aggression against israel. so now they are oppressors? because they beat back every attempt to destroy them yet again? call them what you want. i call them survivors.

    The arabs hate Israel because of the way it was formed, it's not conjecture, it's fact and israel is still hated because of the way it continues to act, again fact.

    I also don't think you even know what Semitism means, infact it's fairly obvious you have no idea what it means.

    and because israel won many wars, does that mean that they were right? so it's fine to take what is not yours but as long as you are able to fend for it it's alright? you are such a silly person.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    the face wrote:
    I see the Brown Shirts have arrived. MLK a racist now? wow. No depths to your depravity. So you read the talmud ey? When pigs fly will I believe that. And if if your talking about the bible you can only be referring to the biggoted views of the new testament, becasue that ain't in the old one.

    MLK simply didn't consider that some of us might not believe in a deity. You are racist though, that's obvious. You are racist against anyone that has an opinion about Israel, Zionism or Jews.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    the face wrote:
    It's subtle anti semitism. Even Martin Luther King said we should not be confused that to be anti zionist is to be anti semitic. The word zionism has been twisted by haters to mean something that it does not. It only means that the Jewish people, butchered for their religious beliefs for thousands of years in Europe in many countries, should have a land of their own they can live in peace. It does not mean the palestinians dont have that same right. That view simply distorts truth and history of which many of these so called anti sionists dont have a grasp of. Why wouldn't it be anti semitic to make the charge that the jews have no right to live in their historically recongized homeland when most of the international community already believes they have that right, and thus provided for the creation of the State of Israel after the near destruction of the Jewish people at the hands of the Germans and their allies? The concept of Israel simply means a safe place for jews to live. Thats all zionism is. And it is fair to presume that if you have a problem with that, deep down, you are simply an anti semite trying to be politcally correct.


    Well I disagree. I don't consider myself an anti-zionist but I definetly do not support the manner in which the state of Israel was created. Now if in your eyes that makes me an anti-semite, so be it, I will not loose any sleep over it. I just think it is pretty disgusting the way that term, anti-semite, is thrown around. There is a huge difference between a Nazi and someone who does not agree with the manner in which the state of Israel was created. I also see no difference in someone who is actually an anti-semite and someone who would use that term to shield Israel from any critisism.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Martin Luther King was a bigot. His reasoning was that the Jews are God's chosen people. Uh, I don't believe in God, so that's a bunch of nonsense. Not everyone in the world buys into the God delusion. I also know from reading the Bible and the Talmud that the Jews were banished by God, they lost God's favor.

    Martin Luther King was a bigot!!!????? are you serious? where do you come from? what planet are you living on?
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    MLK simply didn't consider that some of us might not believe in a deity. You are racist though, that's obvious. You are racist against anyone that has an opinion about Israel, Zionism or Jews.

    what race is that exactly?
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    dayan wrote:
    Martin Luther King was a bigot!!!????? are you serious? where do you come from? what planet are you living on?

    Hey man, fuck God, there is no fucking God. God is a myth, an ancient fairy tale. I don't appreciate someone trying to tell me that my actions are wrong because of a fucking fairy tale. That's what MLK was saying, I shouldn't criticize Jews, Judaism or Israel because they are God's chosen people. Fuck God and fuck MLK. I'm sick of this theocratic bigotry.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    dayan wrote:
    what race is that exactly?

    You seem extremely picky today. Racist, prejudice, it's the same shit.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    mammasan wrote:
    Well I disagree. I don't consider myself an anti-zionist but I definetly do not support the manner in which the state of Israel was created. Now if in your eyes that makes me an anti-semite, so be it, I will not loose any sleep over it. I just think it is pretty disgusting the way that term, anti-semite, is thrown around. There is a huge difference between a Nazi and someone who does not agree with the manner in which the state of Israel was created. I also see no difference in someone who is actually an anti-semite and someone who would use that term to shield Israel from any critisism.

    And I think it's wrong that people would dismiss anti-semitism with such ease given its history. you don't have to be a nazi to be an anti-semite. you can be one without going around raving about how much you hate Jews. it's the same as the fact that people who view themselves as good people who don't hate anyone could still have certain beliefs and stereotypes about black people that would be considered racist. bigotry is dangerous because it is not always obvious. so yeah, anti-semitism gets thrown around alot, but there's alot of it out there, and us Jews have learned to be on the look out for it cause we know what it leads to.
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hey man, fuck God, there is no fucking God. God is a myth, an ancient fairy tale. I don't appreciate someone trying to tell me that my actions are wrong because of a fucking fairy tale. That's what MLK was saying, I shouldn't criticize Jews, Judaism or Israel because they are God's chosen people. Fuck God and fuck MLK. I'm sick of this theocratic bigotry.

    you weren't molested by a priest were you?
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    dayan wrote:
    And I think it's wrong that people would dismiss anti-semitism with such ease given its history. you don't have to be a nazi to be an anti-semite. you can be one without going around raving about how much you hate Jews. it's the same as the fact that people who view themselves as good people who don't hate anyone could still have certain beliefs and stereotypes about black people that would be considered racist. bigotry is dangerous because it is not always obvious. so yeah, anti-semitism gets thrown around alot, but there's alot of it out there, and us Jews have learned to be on the look out for it cause we know what it leads to.

    But your looking for it, leads to you finding it. You don't realize the extent that you create it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • dayandayan Posts: 475
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You seem extremely picky today. Racist, prejudice, it's the same shit.

    and you seem very eager to defend prejudice when it's your own.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    dayan wrote:
    you weren't molested by a priest were you?

    Ah no, I just learned to think freely.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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