No shit, we are supposed to control the government. But all people ever do is wait around and complain, like nothing can ever be changed!! It's so lazy and american to simply want to throw out the system instead of getting off your ass and fixing the problems within it.
And what exactly are you doing from your computer chair? Seriously. I'm asking. You call it so "lazy and american", yet with the post count and amount of time you dwell here, the only logical thing I can think of is to ask if you put your money where your mouth is. Not a personal attack, I'd really like to know. You can answer via PM if this isn't appropriate for the "public".
...
Earmark the taxes paid on Tobacco, Alcohol and Guns and Ammo to pay for the shit associated with them. If the excuse is that the government is corrupt and will spend it on hookers and booze in D.C, then the problem is THE GOVERNMENT.
If taxes collected from alcohol went to alcohol education and alcohol related issues... them make the fucker that are drinking the shit pay for it. Same goes for cigarettes and firearms.
...
Look through this entire thread and see who is tossing out ideas for solutions, rather than off-tangent bitching. Toss out some ideas to solve the problem or ideas to build on the ideas out there instead of simply looking for some way to tear them down and let the ineptness, corruption and status quo to continue.
Higher taxation is certainly not a new nor especially creative solution. How about if you drank your liver to shit, and you can't pay your hospital's, then tough shit. You die. And if you can't pay for your burial, after wasting unknown income on booze, then you get put in the local incinerator. End of story. Tax waste problem solved.
Higher taxation is certainly not a new nor especially creative solution. How about if you drank your liver to shit, and you can't pay your hospital's, then tough shit. You die. And if you can't pay for your burial, after wasting unknown income on booze, then you get put in the local incinerator. End of story. Tax waste problem solved.
I love this! It's all about personal responsibility!
Higher taxation is certainly not a new nor especially creative solution. How about if you drank your liver to shit, and you can't pay your hospital's, then tough shit. You die. And if you can't pay for your burial, after wasting unknown income on booze, then you get put in the local incinerator. End of story. Tax waste problem solved.
...
It is STILL costing you your tax dollars... the hospital staff's time and the cost of cremation. Put the booze tax to work instead of Joe Taxpayer.
Think of it as a 'User's Fee'... the more you drink, the more you pay in taxes for the effects of the product. If you don't drink at all... you are paying ZERO taxes because you are not using the product, therefore have no liability in it's consequences.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
And what exactly are you doing from your computer chair? Seriously. I'm asking. You call it so "lazy and american", yet with the post count and amount of time you dwell here, the only logical thing I can think of is to ask if you put your money where your mouth is. Not a personal attack, I'd really like to know. You can answer via PM if this isn't appropriate for the "public".
Biggest thing is I speak out, all the time til I'm blue in the face, join and donate to groups and causes such as AI and others in NC although I do not attend meetings as much as I should bc I live 1 1/2 hours away and dont drive....boycott, write congressmen, attend protests and vigils...and fundraise for various causes. Is that good enough for you? I don't feel it is nearly enough but it's all I can currently manage to accomplish.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And what exactly are you doing from your computer chair? Seriously. I'm asking. You call it so "lazy and american", yet with the post count and amount of time you dwell here, the only logical thing I can think of is to ask if you put your money where your mouth is. Not a personal attack, I'd really like to know. You can answer via PM if this isn't appropriate for the "public".
I bet you have little magnetic American flags and W's all over your vehicle, you Patriot !!
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
I love this! It's all about personal responsibility!
...
Which is what I am promoting. Make the smokers pay for the shit they cause... the drinkers pay for the shit they cause and the gun shooters pay for the shit they cause. Personal responsibility for the choices they make.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Which is what I am promoting. Make the smokers pay for the shit they cause... the drinkers pay for the shit they cause and the gun shooters pay for the shit they cause. Personal responsibility for the choices they make.
This is like a reparations argument. I don't do a crime I don't do the time. That's personal responsibility. Get it? Why should I have to pay for something I didn't do? By your logic, Black people have to pay a higher margin of the tax because thier gun deaths are at a much higher rate than the rest of the country?
This is like a reparations argument. I don't do a crime I don't do the time. That's personal responsibility. Get it? Why should I have to pay for something I didn't do? By your logic, Black people have to pay a higher margin of the tax because thier gun deaths are at a much higher rate than the rest of the country?
...
You ARE paying for shit you aren't doing, unless you answer Yes to any on the following questions:
Are you an alcoholic? Are you a two-pack a day smoker? Are you a drive by shooter?
If you drink a lot... you pay more. If you smoke a lot... you pay more. If you are going through an awful lot of ammunition... you pay more.
...
Why is this a problem?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
that the title of this thread is ludicrous and very insulting to everybody. What do you mean BAN ISLAM!! I am appalled. Do you have no clue what a religion is??!!?! You may ban it's practise but how do you ban the religion??!??! Even as a non-muslim I'm appalled!!
If Pearl Jam was a beer, they'd probably be the best beer in the world!!
that the title of this thread is ludicrous and very insulting to everybody. What do you mean BAN ISLAM!! I am appalled. Do you have no clue what a religion is??!!?! You may ban it's practise but how do you ban the religion??!??! Even as a non-muslim I'm appalled!!
You can't kill an idea by killing people.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Biggest thing is I speak out, all the time til I'm blue in the face, join and donate to groups and causes such as AI and others in NC although I do not attend meetings as much as I should bc I live 1 1/2 hours away and dont drive....boycott, write congressmen, attend protests and vigils...and fundraise for various causes. Is that good enough for you? I don't feel it is nearly enough but it's all I can currently manage to accomplish.
All that is done from your fat american lazy ass then? Get up and go. Typing in this forum or others like it isnt "speaking out", its conversing with like minded ego stroking liberals. There's a difference. So no, its not enough, its not much more than those "fat lazy americans' you mentioned.
that the title of this thread is ludicrous and very insulting to everybody. What do you mean BAN ISLAM!! I am appalled. Do you have no clue what a religion is??!!?! You may ban it's practise but how do you ban the religion??!??! Even as a non-muslim I'm appalled!!
All that is done from your fat american lazy ass then? Get up and go. Typing in this forum or others like it isnt "speaking out", its conversing with like minded ego stroking liberals. There's a difference. So no, its not enough, its not much more than those "fat lazy americans' you mentioned.
No, it's not all done from my computer, almost all of it has nothing to do with posting here.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
PM me then, LOL. Believe me, you are way below a turd's level. Pathetic AND no backbone.
**Bombs Dropping Down
Hi all,
First of all...welcome back from this brief timeout. Now for a little heart-to-heart...please keep reading.
There are so many difficult situations going on in the world; the wars being fought are also being fought verbally online. We feel that Pearl Jam fans coming together to examine the topics is a good thing for all of us, and for the most part, that's what goes on here. There are mostly thoughtful posts with an eye toward actually discussing an issue to learn more here. Unfortunately, there have been too many posts recently by a few people with the sole intent of "bombing" the other person and their point of view into oblivion. It doesn't work and will never work and it isn't ok here. There are many no-holds-barred political forums on the net but this isn't one of them so we invite the people who prefer that, to find one of those forums...you will be happier there.
For everyone else...It's important to know/realize/learn that showing and expressing respect for the persons you're speaking with actually increases their willingness to listen to what you're saying. This is not opinion; this is fact. So if someone is speaking antagonistically and/or aggressively to a fellow Pearl Jam fan here, heaping abuse upon them, it's not following the Posting Guidelines one agreed to when registering. Anyone doing that will not remain here...it's solely *their choice.* Second chances will not be given for anyone dropping bombs on another member. If someone sees a problem post, please use the triangle-shaped icon on the post and report it to us so we can take care of it. Your help is always appreciated.
Finally, A Moving Train is just a small portion of the Message Pit and we encourage everyone to visit the other areas to discuss other topics too. We all have one common bond - Pearl Jam's music and this is primarily a music site. We love seeing you and hope you will continue to enjoy your time here. Please feel free to write to us or contact us with that Report icon if there's a problem we can head off.
1. Yes, Gun-Related Incidents (accidental deaths or homocides) decrease or halved.
2. But murder in general increased considerably after the ban of firearms. The statistics prove this.
1. so we can all agree that gun deaths (accidental) have halved.... so kids lives are being saved right? thats fact... some kids lives were saved as a result of banning handguns in the uK... i take solace in that!
2. prove it then... i dont believe this 'statistic' claim
on a further point, and for clarification, i dont give a fuck if one junkie kills another with a hammer and 2 pegs... i just dont... i do care however that kids are being killed by accidentally firing their parents guns or whatever...
because the former is going to happen anyway regardless of whether guns are there or not... criminals, gang members, junkies, etc, kill each other anyway... and the latter is avoidable...
and people keep saying "they'll just find other ways to kill...if they dont have guns they'll use a knife" of course they will if they are determined enough, but take that nutter from Pennsylvania.. now 5 are dead.. if he had just a baseball bat instead of that gun then i'm sure there would have been less fatalities
i'm advocating that something is done to stop the senseless killing of kids for no other reason than they can get a hold of their parents guns.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Is that all you can say! No sense to have an adult discussion, yet you slag me? WTF man? What happened to a civilized discussion. I was just posting my views on the comment, what was your intention with a post like this?
If Pearl Jam was a beer, they'd probably be the best beer in the world!!
...
You ARE paying for shit you aren't doing, unless you answer Yes to any on the following questions:
Are you an alcoholic? Are you a two-pack a day smoker? Are you a drive by shooter?
If you drink a lot... you pay more. If you smoke a lot... you pay more. If you are going through an awful lot of ammunition... you pay more.
...
Why is this a problem?
Dont forget to tax matches - they can cause fires. And sports equipment too, all those injuries cost us all money. Oh yeah, food too - you know how people abuse that. And cars, dont leave them off, lots of carnage on our roads these days. In fact, I cant think of a better world than one where the government decides what is risky and what is not and then uses taxation as a means to discourage such behavior.
Dont forget to tax matches - they can cause fires. And sports equipment too, all those injuries cost us all money. Oh yeah, food too - you know how people abuse that. And cars, dont leave them off, lots of carnage on our roads these days. In fact, I cant think of a better world than one where the government decides what is risky and what is not and then uses taxation as a means to discourage such behavior.
...
When was the last time someone was sent to the trauma center because of a tent? and how much of the 'Carnage on the Roads', alcohol related?
You are either silly or blind to the fact that alcohol, tobacco and firearms have ill effects from their use and abuse.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
When was the last time someone was sent to the trauma center because of a tent? and how much of the 'Carnage on the Roads', alcohol related?
You are either silly or blind to the fact that alcohol, tobacco and firearms have ill effects from their use and abuse.
And you seem equally silly or blind to the fact that it is my right to smoke, to drink, and to target shoot. Just like its a woman's right to choose to murder a baby. You liberals cant have your cake and eat it too.
And you seem equally silly or blind to the fact that it is my right to smoke, to drink, and to target shoot. Just like its a woman's right to choose to murder a baby. You liberals cant have your cake and eat it too.
...
Yes... it is your right to choose to smoke, and drink and shoot. I'm not proposing a ban or limits on your consumption. But, why should I have to pay for YOUR hospital bills when you get emphysema because you excercised your right to smoke 2 packs a day?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Fundamentally, there are a great many dangerous things in our societies that are nevertheless legal. Driving, using some drugs (alcohol and tobacco), owning and using a gun ... There are always restrictions placed on these behaviors, be it age limits, need to get a license, etc. What annoys me is the arbitrary nature of people's focus on lawful gun owners. Maybe not in all states, but in MOST juristictions, you need licenses, background checks, etc. to get a gun via legal means. This is an adequate system. What is inadequate are the lack of controls on illegal weaponry. Clearly more needs to be done to reduce the number of weapons (not just guns) in the hands of criminals ... What the best solution is eludes me, though.
...
Yes... it is your right to choose to smoke, and drink and shoot. I'm not proposing a ban or limits on your consumption. But, why should I have to pay for YOUR hospital bills when you get emphysema because you excercised your right to smoke 2 packs a day?
Part of me agrees with this argument, but how far should it be taken? Some idiot drives like an ass, crashes, and injures himself severely. Should we pay his bills?
...
Yes... it is your right to choose to smoke, and drink and shoot. I'm not proposing a ban or limits on your consumption. But, why should I have to pay for YOUR hospital bills when you get emphysema because you excercised your right to smoke 2 packs a day?
You shouldnt. I should. Deny smokers or limit their insurability. Most of the hospitals in my area, at least as far as I know, are privately owned and run. Im not quite sure how much of my tax money is used to pay the patients bills. I know our biggest hospital doesnt pay property tax, but I believe its due to the high number of jobs that hospital provides. Do you have information or statistics, either nationwide or state per state, that show real numbers on the amount of TAX money spent on smokers, drinkers, and gunshot wounds? I'd like to know/be shown something concrete.
Fundamentally, there are a great many dangerous things in our societies that are nevertheless legal. Driving, using some drugs (alcohol and tobacco), owning and using a gun ... There are always restrictions placed on these behaviors, be it age limits, need to get a license, etc. What annoys me is the arbitrary nature of people's focus on lawful gun owners. Maybe not in all states, but in MOST juristictions, you need licenses, background checks, etc. to get a gun via legal means. This is an adequate system. What is inadequate are the lack of controls on illegal weaponry. Clearly more needs to be done to reduce the number of weapons (not just guns) in the hands of criminals ... What the best solution is eludes me, though.
...
Step One. Enforce the Gun laws. Put the fuckers in prison who use guns in the commission of a crime.
Step Two. Enforce the Gun Registration Laws. Put the fuckers who are in possession of a stolen and/or unregistered gun in prison with the assholes who use them in the commission of a crime.
...
That's a start.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Step One. Enforce the Gun laws. Put the fuckers in prison who use guns in the commission of a crime.
Step Two. Enforce the Gun Registration Laws. Put the fuckers who are in possession of a stolen and/or unregistered gun in prison with the assholes who use them in the commission of a crime.
...
That's a start.
That'd work. Its not more laws or regulations that we need. Its strict enforcement of the ones we already have in place.
Comments
And what exactly are you doing from your computer chair? Seriously. I'm asking. You call it so "lazy and american", yet with the post count and amount of time you dwell here, the only logical thing I can think of is to ask if you put your money where your mouth is. Not a personal attack, I'd really like to know. You can answer via PM if this isn't appropriate for the "public".
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Higher taxation is certainly not a new nor especially creative solution. How about if you drank your liver to shit, and you can't pay your hospital's, then tough shit. You die. And if you can't pay for your burial, after wasting unknown income on booze, then you get put in the local incinerator. End of story. Tax waste problem solved.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I love this! It's all about personal responsibility!
It is STILL costing you your tax dollars... the hospital staff's time and the cost of cremation. Put the booze tax to work instead of Joe Taxpayer.
Think of it as a 'User's Fee'... the more you drink, the more you pay in taxes for the effects of the product. If you don't drink at all... you are paying ZERO taxes because you are not using the product, therefore have no liability in it's consequences.
Hail, Hail!!!
Biggest thing is I speak out, all the time til I'm blue in the face, join and donate to groups and causes such as AI and others in NC although I do not attend meetings as much as I should bc I live 1 1/2 hours away and dont drive....boycott, write congressmen, attend protests and vigils...and fundraise for various causes. Is that good enough for you? I don't feel it is nearly enough but it's all I can currently manage to accomplish.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I bet you have little magnetic American flags and W's all over your vehicle, you Patriot !!
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Which is what I am promoting. Make the smokers pay for the shit they cause... the drinkers pay for the shit they cause and the gun shooters pay for the shit they cause. Personal responsibility for the choices they make.
Hail, Hail!!!
This is like a reparations argument. I don't do a crime I don't do the time. That's personal responsibility. Get it? Why should I have to pay for something I didn't do? By your logic, Black people have to pay a higher margin of the tax because thier gun deaths are at a much higher rate than the rest of the country?
You ARE paying for shit you aren't doing, unless you answer Yes to any on the following questions:
Are you an alcoholic? Are you a two-pack a day smoker? Are you a drive by shooter?
If you drink a lot... you pay more. If you smoke a lot... you pay more. If you are going through an awful lot of ammunition... you pay more.
...
Why is this a problem?
Hail, Hail!!!
You can't kill an idea by killing people.
All that is done from your fat american lazy ass then? Get up and go. Typing in this forum or others like it isnt "speaking out", its conversing with like minded ego stroking liberals. There's a difference. So no, its not enough, its not much more than those "fat lazy americans' you mentioned.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
READ SLOWER, YOU'LL COMPREHEND BETTER
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Editted to avoid stooping to this turd's level.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
No, it's not all done from my computer, almost all of it has nothing to do with posting here.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
PM me then, LOL. Believe me, you are way below a turd's level. Pathetic AND no backbone.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
**Bombs Dropping Down
Hi all,
First of all...welcome back from this brief timeout. Now for a little heart-to-heart...please keep reading.
There are so many difficult situations going on in the world; the wars being fought are also being fought verbally online. We feel that Pearl Jam fans coming together to examine the topics is a good thing for all of us, and for the most part, that's what goes on here. There are mostly thoughtful posts with an eye toward actually discussing an issue to learn more here. Unfortunately, there have been too many posts recently by a few people with the sole intent of "bombing" the other person and their point of view into oblivion. It doesn't work and will never work and it isn't ok here. There are many no-holds-barred political forums on the net but this isn't one of them so we invite the people who prefer that, to find one of those forums...you will be happier there.
For everyone else...It's important to know/realize/learn that showing and expressing respect for the persons you're speaking with actually increases their willingness to listen to what you're saying. This is not opinion; this is fact. So if someone is speaking antagonistically and/or aggressively to a fellow Pearl Jam fan here, heaping abuse upon them, it's not following the Posting Guidelines one agreed to when registering. Anyone doing that will not remain here...it's solely *their choice.* Second chances will not be given for anyone dropping bombs on another member. If someone sees a problem post, please use the triangle-shaped icon on the post and report it to us so we can take care of it. Your help is always appreciated.
Finally, A Moving Train is just a small portion of the Message Pit and we encourage everyone to visit the other areas to discuss other topics too. We all have one common bond - Pearl Jam's music and this is primarily a music site. We love seeing you and hope you will continue to enjoy your time here. Please feel free to write to us or contact us with that Report icon if there's a problem we can head off.
Peace and Love,
Kat and Sea
www.myspace.com/jensvad
(keep it friendly)
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
1. so we can all agree that gun deaths (accidental) have halved.... so kids lives are being saved right? thats fact... some kids lives were saved as a result of banning handguns in the uK... i take solace in that!
2. prove it then... i dont believe this 'statistic' claim
on a further point, and for clarification, i dont give a fuck if one junkie kills another with a hammer and 2 pegs... i just dont... i do care however that kids are being killed by accidentally firing their parents guns or whatever...
because the former is going to happen anyway regardless of whether guns are there or not... criminals, gang members, junkies, etc, kill each other anyway... and the latter is avoidable...
and people keep saying "they'll just find other ways to kill...if they dont have guns they'll use a knife" of course they will if they are determined enough, but take that nutter from Pennsylvania.. now 5 are dead.. if he had just a baseball bat instead of that gun then i'm sure there would have been less fatalities
i'm advocating that something is done to stop the senseless killing of kids for no other reason than they can get a hold of their parents guns.
Is that all you can say! No sense to have an adult discussion, yet you slag me? WTF man? What happened to a civilized discussion. I was just posting my views on the comment, what was your intention with a post like this?
When was the last time someone was sent to the trauma center because of a tent? and how much of the 'Carnage on the Roads', alcohol related?
You are either silly or blind to the fact that alcohol, tobacco and firearms have ill effects from their use and abuse.
Hail, Hail!!!
And you seem equally silly or blind to the fact that it is my right to smoke, to drink, and to target shoot. Just like its a woman's right to choose to murder a baby. You liberals cant have your cake and eat it too.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Yes... it is your right to choose to smoke, and drink and shoot. I'm not proposing a ban or limits on your consumption. But, why should I have to pay for YOUR hospital bills when you get emphysema because you excercised your right to smoke 2 packs a day?
Hail, Hail!!!
Part of me agrees with this argument, but how far should it be taken? Some idiot drives like an ass, crashes, and injures himself severely. Should we pay his bills?
You shouldnt. I should. Deny smokers or limit their insurability. Most of the hospitals in my area, at least as far as I know, are privately owned and run. Im not quite sure how much of my tax money is used to pay the patients bills. I know our biggest hospital doesnt pay property tax, but I believe its due to the high number of jobs that hospital provides. Do you have information or statistics, either nationwide or state per state, that show real numbers on the amount of TAX money spent on smokers, drinkers, and gunshot wounds? I'd like to know/be shown something concrete.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Step One. Enforce the Gun laws. Put the fuckers in prison who use guns in the commission of a crime.
Step Two. Enforce the Gun Registration Laws. Put the fuckers who are in possession of a stolen and/or unregistered gun in prison with the assholes who use them in the commission of a crime.
...
That's a start.
Hail, Hail!!!
www.myspace.com/jensvad