Banning Guns = Banning Islam?

69charger

Here's the argument...

A lot of people on this board would like to see a total ban on guns based on a very small fraction of a percentage of firearms being used to comit high profile crimes. The majority of the millions of guns in this country are never used to comit a crime and in fact are used over a million times a year to prevent crime.

So the logic goes...

Based on the small fraction of a percentage of crimes being comitted by Muslim extremeists we should ban the worship of Islam because it is apparently dangerous. That majority of Muslims in the world have never comitted a crime and in fact are appalled by the violence comitted in the name of their religion.

Does anyone get the point I'm trying to make?

dunkman

69charger wrote:

Here's the argument...

A lot of people on this board would like to see a total ban on guns based on a very small fraction of a percentage of firearms being used to comit high profile crimes.

Does anyone get the point I'm trying to make?

who are this 'lot'??? i think there are only 2 or 3 on here who advocate a total ban!

and as for your point you are making... my point is that 3 schoolkids were shot yesterday by a spasmatroid with a gun (highly probable it was his!)

and as for banning Islam... i thought "people killed people" now you are telling me "religion kills people"... make your minds up... guns DONT kill people, but Islam does.... i'm fucking lost!?

OutOfBreath

I get it.

But I dunno how many on here are for total banning of guns. Most I read are calling for stricter regulation of them. But then again, some on here seem to be arguing that muslims should be banned or whatever. This place is crazy at times.

I am all for heavy restrictions for gun purchase and ownership, but people should still get them and have them without having to explain themselves overtly. Guns are dangerous, and I see no reason for them being an item you can grab by the counter and put next to your gum and shampoo either.

Peace
Dan

harmless_little_f***

dunkman1974 wrote:

who are this 'lot'??? i think there are only 2 or 3 on here who advocate a total ban!

and as for your point you are making... my point is that 3 schoolkids were shot yesterday by a spasmatroid with a gun (highly probable it was his!)

and as for banning Islam... i thought "people killed people" now you are telling me "religion kills people"... make your minds up... guns DONT kill people, but Islam does.... i'm fucking lost!?

I think he's saying that both 'guns kills people' and 'Islam kills people' are both misconceptions, or at least too simplistic.

Abuskedti

Islam is a weapon....

69charger

dunkman1974 wrote:

and as for banning Islam... i thought "people killed people" now you are telling me "religion kills people"... make your minds up... guns DONT kill people, but Islam does.... i'm fucking lost!?

No, that's exactly my point.

Banning guns makes as much sense as banning Islam.

dunkman

69charger wrote:

Banning guns makes as much sense as banning Islam.

banning guns = innocent kids lives will be saved

banning Islam = the equivalent of being a Nazi


how about making guns extremely difficult to have, full checks to be made, guns licenced, handguns to be kept in authorised safes, etc..

and at the same time you can go and search for the religious extremists people appear to fear so much

more kids have died in the states in the last two years as a result of being shot by ACCIDENT in a handgun misuse scenario than renegade 'Muslims' have killed since the year 0....

i fail to see your correalition... its a poor analogy

chopitdown

dunkman1974 wrote:

banning guns = innocent kids lives will be saved

banning Islam = the equivalent of being a Nazi


how about making guns extremely difficult to have, full checks to be made, guns licenced, handguns to be kept in authorised safes, etc..

and at the same time you can go and search for the religious extremists people appear to fear so much

more kids have died in the states in the last two years as a result of being shot by ACCIDENT in a handgun misuse scenario than renegade 'Muslims' have killed since the year 0....

i fail to see your correalition... its a poor analogy

if you want to get technical banning / full registration of guns = equivalent of nazi germany as well.
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html

OutOfBreath

chopitdown wrote:

if you want to get technical banning / full registration of guns = equivalent of nazi germany as well.
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html

Yeah, if all else fails, point to the nazis... :rolleyes:
Those people were killed, deported, put in camps because of gun registration. Right. Can anyone say "marginal side-issue"? Sheesh.

Peace
Dan

chopitdown

OutOfBreath wrote:

Yeah, if all else fails, point to the nazis... :rolleyes:
Those people were killed, deported, put in camps because of gun registration. Right. Can anyone say "marginal side-issue"? Sheesh.

Peace
Dan

i only brought it up b/c the person above me did. if they can use it as a valid comparison, i can use it as a valid comparison. I realize it's a stretch, just like it's a stretch to suggest that the banning of guns is going to stop violent crimes and accidental deaths.

OutOfBreath

chopitdown wrote:

i only brought it up b/c the person above me did. if they can use it as a valid comparison, i can use it as a valid comparison. I realize it's a stretch, just like it's a stretch to suggest that the banning of guns is going to stop violent crimes and accidental deaths.

Ah. then I have no quarrel on that issue. didn't notice dunky's post above you first time.

However, guns dont have to be available anywhere at all times, with noone knowing who has how many either. People should be allowed to own them, certainly. But there are many measures that can be tried and used inbetween "I love my 5 million guns" and "Noone should have guns". and most people here, maybe even dunky, are promoting stricter regulation for the most part. As I understand it, you pretty much dont have any regulation over there.

Peace
Dan

69charger

dunkman1974 wrote:

banning guns = innocent kids lives will be saved

Statistically guns save over 1 million lives a year and only kill 20,000 per year (half of those deaths are suicides), of which approx 3,500 are children of which approximately 1,000 are suicide related.

So will you forsake the lives of millions for that of 3,500?

OutOfBreath

69charger wrote:

Statistically guns save over 1 million lives a year and only kill 20,000 per year (half of those deaths are suicides), of which approx 3,500 are children of which approximately 1,000 are suicide related.

So will you forsake the lives of millions for that of 3,500?

Source? And how are they "saved"?

Peace
Dan

69charger

OutOfBreath wrote:

As I understand it, you pretty much dont have any regulation over there.

Peace
Dan

On the contrary! We have tens of thousands of laws that regulate the manufacture, design, sale, purchase, possession, and uses of guns.

None of which will keep a criminal from comitting a crime with a gun.

El_Kabong

69charger wrote:

On the contrary! We have tens of thousands of laws that regulate the manufacture, design, sale, purchase, possession, and uses of guns.

None of which will keep a criminal from comitting a crime with a gun.

you don't think background checks accomplish anything?

69charger

OutOfBreath wrote:

Source? And how are they "saved"?

Peace
Dan

2.55 Million! I was low-balling for arguments sake.

http://www.guncite.com/kleckjama01.html

"...that same year there were an estimated 2.55 million defensive gun uses (DGUs), 37.3% of them in the victim/defender's home, or about 950,000 in the home.[9] Although gun control advocates have questioned DGU estimates,[4,11] the claim of large numbers of DGUs has been confirmed in at least 16 surveys, and the criticisms concerning flaws in DGU surveys have been rebutted.[5,9,12] These criticisms were based on one-sided speculation about errors in surveys, rather than empirical evidence. To date, there is no empirical evidence that false-positive reports of DGU outnumber false negatives (ie, failure to report DGUs), and thus no foundation for the claim that surveys overestimate the prevalence of DGUs.[12] In sum, the best available estimates indicate that there are about 6 times as many DGUs in US homes each year as criminal/aggressive uses (950,000:155,000). "

69charger

El_Kabong wrote:

you don't think background checks accomplish anything?

I am for background checks. I've had 3 this year.

However, it will not stop a determined criminal from getting a firearm.

I'm not for complete de-regulation of ownership, but some of the laws out there are completely idiotic.

PaperPlates

OutOfBreath wrote:

Ah. then I have no quarrel on that issue. didn't notice dunky's post above you first time.

However, guns dont have to be available anywhere at all times, with noone knowing who has how many either. People should be allowed to own them, certainly. But there are many measures that can be tried and used inbetween "I love my 5 million guns" and "Noone should have guns". and most people here, maybe even dunky, are promoting stricter regulation for the most part. As I understand it, you pretty much dont have any regulation over there.

Peace
Dan

Than you are arguing out of ignorance. We have plenty of laws concerning guns and who, when and how they can get them. Unfortunately, as there is in any country, there's a very healthy black market here. Much the same as if you banned them outright, only the people (for the most part) who ARE responsible follow the laws currently in place as far as guns are concerned.

OutOfBreath

69charger wrote:

On the contrary! We have tens of thousands of laws that regulate the manufacture, design, sale, purchase, possession, and uses of guns.

None of which will keep a criminal from comitting a crime with a gun.

I guess you do. But does any of the laws entail licensing of selling and owning guns? Are there anything in place to revoke the license of an unfit individual? Background checks?

compared to Norwegian standards, I just skimmed through our laws on the subject. The gun salesman must have a license from the police, as must any purchaser of a gun. Walking around with weapons on your person in town is not allowed. You must always carry your license with your gun, and if you are deemed unfit to own a gun, your license is revoked.

And I'm still very interested in the source of your numbers. (edit) ah, you posted it now. nevermind.

Peace
Dan

PaperPlates

El_Kabong wrote:

you don't think background checks accomplish anything?

Last I checked the guy down the corner in Brooklyn selling hot guns, doesnt run background checks.

catefrances

69charger wrote:

Here's the argument...

A lot of people on this board would like to see a total ban on guns based on a very small fraction of a percentage of firearms being used to comit high profile crimes. The majority of the millions of guns in this country are never used to comit a crime and in fact are used over a million times a year to prevent crime.

So the logic goes...

Based on the small fraction of a percentage of crimes being comitted by Muslim extremeists we should ban the worship of Islam because it is apparently dangerous. That majority of Muslims in the world have never comitted a crime and in fact are appalled by the violence comitted in the name of their religion.

Does anyone get the point I'm trying to make?

why did you not say banning christianity. cause quite frankly if you look throughout history, christianity would give islam a very competative run for its money in the violence stakes.

but if i put the quran to your head i can not pull a trigger and watch your lifeless body fall to the dirt. but if i put a gun to your head and pull the trigger, i can indeed watch as your lifeless body falls to the ground.

you know, a few years ago a man went on a rampage down here and killed a bunch of people. the government went a little crazy some thought and banned rifles. we have never been allowed to own handguns. anyway, you know what? we survived. as a nation we are okay with not being armed. and yes sure there are those criminals who do have weapons. and yes there are those members of gun clubs that have weapons. and yes we are safer. gun control is not infalliable but you have to start somewhere. someone has to make that first step.