16,000 compared to a population over 301,000,000 is quite a low percentage.
its still at least 5 times higher than all the next 25 industrialised nations combined.... per capita... ok its low in the grand scheme of things but tell that to the parent of a kid who has no face.
the difference between the US and the next 25 nations in the world is, yup, you have a flimsy almost unmanaged gun registration system... the other countries have some stricter controls.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
WHAT? our courts upheld our right. however; we can compare those wanting to remove those rights with hitler reasoning and mentality.
i cant believe you're equating the registration of guns in the US to ensure safer control in the worlds leading democracy to that of a depression era right wing Germany.... its laughable
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
its still at least 5 times higher than all the next 25 industrialised nations combined.... per capita... ok its low in the grand scheme of things but tell that to the parent of a kid who has no face.
the difference between the US and the next 25 nations in the world is, yup, you have a flimsy almost unmanaged gun registration system... the other countries have some stricter controls.
you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that any child has been killed with a firearm. only child deaths which are mostly caused by drunk drivers and alcoholic or drug addicted parents.
i cant believe you're equating the registration of guns in the US to ensure safer control in the worlds leading democracy to that of a depression era right wing Germany.... its laughable
you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that any child has been killed with a firearm. only child deaths which are mostly caused by drunk drivers and alcoholic or drug addicted parents.
didnt you read the link or what i posted
firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
now that may not be shocking to you as its still a low figure... but it shocks me that kids die as a result of gun negligence... it also shocks me that its 12 times higher than that of the other nations COMBINED!! dont you agree that the figures are disturbing?
also its not some weird anti-gun website that one (like the NRA or gunsdontkill.com) its a US government dept I believe (i'll be happy to rescind that if i'm wrong however)
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
the aforementioned guns.. it was in the sentence dude.. it was clear what i meant.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i noticed that. you have tunnel vision on our second ammendment even though it doesn't effect you in any way. it makes me wonder why you don't want americans to be able to protect their rights. if the iraqi's could've defended their rights against hussain; there wouldn't be a war right now trying to win their freedom back. if the german people could have defended their rights when hitler went overboard; there wouldn't have been WWII. if europe could have defended itself america wouldn't have had to step in. but it was alright to restore europeans freedom but it's wrong to help the iraqis attain freedom.
Someone needs to help the Iraqi's attain their freedom from America.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
hitler had to disarm germany in order to become a dictator
I think it's interesting you contradict yourself, at least in my opinion. You've mentioned several times that a gun ban (which I wouldn't support by the way) would only punish the law abiding citizens, the criminals would still be able to buy their guns on the black market.
You say a total gun ban would leave you (the law abiding citizens) powerless against the government, yet guns would be readily available on the black market, you have guns stored the authorities would never find and I imagine you're not the only one. You said there are plenty of 'secret militias' with enough firepower to stop the government.
firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
now that may not be shocking to you as its still a low figure... but it shocks me that kids die as a result of gun negligence... it also shocks me that its 12 times higher than that of the other nations COMBINED!! dont you agree that the figures are disturbing?
also its not some weird anti-gun website that one (like the NRA or gunsdontkill.com) its a US government dept I believe (i'll be happy to rescind that if i'm wrong however)
957 kids killed compared to the millions of people who's lives have been saved by defensive use of firearms every year.
I still fail to see the logic behind wanting 'stricter' gun laws or an outright ban.
957 kids killed compared to the millions of people who's lives have been saved by defensive use of firearms every year.
Any stats? Any proof they would have been dead otherwise?
You fail to see the logic?
Here:
firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
957 kids killed compared to the millions of people who's lives have been saved by defensive use of firearms every year.
I still fail to see the logic behind wanting 'stricter' gun laws or an outright ban.
thats subjective and has no proof whatsoever.... its akin to sayng dropping the bomb on hiroshima saved millions of americans lives... no-one can prove that at all... whereas the corpse of a dead kid is solid evidence rather than guessing number of lives saved
and you only fail to see the logic because you dont want to admit the logic... i.e. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
its shameful that you think thats an ok statistic....
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Mousa: This is Afghanistan... Alexander the Great try to conquer this country... then Genghis Khan, then the British. Now Russia. But Afghan people fight hard, they never be defeated. Ancient enemy make prayer about these people... you wish to hear?
Rambo: Um-hum.
Mousa: Very good. It says, 'May God deliver us from the venom of the Cobra, teeth of the tiger, and the vengeance of the Afghan.' Understand what this means?
Rambo: That you guys don't take any shit?
Mousa: Yes... something like this.
it is very very strange to see a nation of people debating whether they are allowed to own guns...i mean.. A FUCKING GUN???......
but i guess as an aussie ill never understand the fascination.....we had a government buy back of guns here back when we had a massacre....it was for the better.....i cant remember the last time a mass shooting happened...
ahh u yanks.......why do u want your guns.......i guess u feel so manly WHEN AAAAAAAARRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDD
ps i said yank in an affectionate way
CAUTION: This sign has sharp edges. Do not touch the edges of this sign
Outlaw the automobile first. Kills more children per year.
interestingly from that very link you have provided:-
o About 211,000 handguns and 382,000 long guns were
stolen in noncommercial thefts in 1994.
wow!!!! thats a lot of illegal guns on the streets... just shows that gun keepers arent doing their best to look after them
o Slightly more than half of all privately owned
firearms were stored unlocked; 16 percent of
firearms were stored unlocked and loaded.
again thats a shocking stat, stored unlocked!!!! no wonder kids are shooting each other pretending to be cowboys
o Evidence suggests that this survey and others
like it overestimate the frequency with which
firearms were used by private citizens to defend
against criminal attack.
and i rest my case!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
For example, in only a small fraction of rape and
robbery attempts do victims use guns in
self-defense. It does not make sense, then, that
the NSPOF estimate of the number of rapes in which
a woman defended herself with a gun was more than
the total number of rapes estimated from NCVS
(exhibit 8).
also
Gun storage. Of 1,356 accidental deaths by gunshot in 1994, 185 involved children 14 years old and younger.[11] For each such fatality, there are several accidental shootings that cause serious injury. Guns were also the means of destruction in 19,590 suicides, 210 involving children 14 or younger. For these reasons, safe handling and storage of firearms have attracted the attention of the public health community.
We found that 20 percent of all gun-owning households had an unlocked, loaded gun in the home at the time of the survey. This figure was substantially higher among handgun-owning households than among households with long guns only--30 percent versus 7 percent.
Slightly more than half of firearms of either type were stored unlocked, but handguns were much more likely to be loaded. Reflecting their predominant
use in self-defense, handguns were likely to be stored in bedrooms or vehicles of owners or even on their person, while most long guns were kept in gun closets or other out-of-the-way places (exhibit 6).
Although training programs usually include suggestions on how to store guns safely, it does not appear that trainees are paying attention. More
than half (56 percent) of owners had received some form of "formal" training from the military, law enforcement, National Rifle Association, National Safety Council, or other source. As a group, owners who received such training were no less likely than others to keep guns loaded and unlocked. This
surprising result is consistent with other recent studies.[12]
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Respondents might falsely provide a positive
response to the DGU question for any of a number of
reasons:
o They may want to impress the interviewer by their
heroism and hence exaggerate a trivial event.
o They may be genuinely confused due to substance
abuse, mental illness, or simply less-than-accurate
memories.
o They may actually have used a gun defensively
within the last couple of years but falsely report
it as occurring in the previous year--a phenomenon
known as "telescoping."
First, people who draw their guns to defend
themselves against perceived threats are not
necessarily innocent victims; they may have started
fights themselves or they may simply be mistaken
about whether the other persons really intended to
harm them. Survey interviewers must take the
respondent's word for what happened and why; a
competent police investigation of the same incident
would interview all parties before reaching a
conclusion.
When they design a car that is meant to kill, we'll talk. And I never spoke of outlawing.
me neither Collin... just of tighter controls that match or better those in other countries that dont have this problem!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
me neither Collin... just of tighter controls that match or better those in other countries that dont have this problem!
What, specifically, are you looking for. We have many laws that aren't being properly enforced already. The only think new laws will do is potentially make criminals out of law abiding gun owners as they try to weave their way through our convoluted criminal code. I'd definitely be in favor of much stronger enforcement of existing law which should severely punish those who use firearms in the commission of crimes.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
but i guess as an aussie ill never understand the fascination.....we had a government buy back of guns here back when we had a massacre....it was for the better.....i cant remember the last time a mass shooting happened...
What effect did your ban have on the crime rate?
How much did this ban cost you/your gov't? How many guns were confiscated?
Hint: this has already been covered in this thread. I'm glad you haven't had another mass shooting yet.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
How much did this ban cost you/your gov't? How many guns were confiscated?
Hint: this has already been covered in this thread. I'm glad you haven't had another mass shooting yet.
who gives a fuck about cost if it means lives are saved? seriously? i remember the Aussie gun amnesty brought in tons of guns.. i literally mean tons!! hopefully someone can answer you with figures!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
for instance here in Scotland and i believe the UK, since Dunblane Massacre, it is illegal to own any handgun whatsoever..
from cnn The deadline in Britain was part of the Firearms Amendment Act, which was introduced after a gunman killed 16 school children and their teacher in the Scottish town of Dunblane a year and a half ago.
The ban tightens what was already one of the world's strictest gun laws. It took effect in July, but a grace period for the handover was extended until the end of this month.
The new law bans the possession of all handguns of .22 caliber and above and those able to fire more than one shot at a time.
Britain had an estimated 200,000 legally-registered handguns, and the law will ban about four-fifths of them.
interestingly i just read... "... In 1995, there were 81 homicides in Britain involving handguns" thats out of a population of some 56million (1/5 of the US) and the death rates of the US in 1994 were 17,000 as a result of gun-related homicides... thats a staggering comparison... one that will yet again be overlooked by the pro-gunners on here but i'll keep banging the drum
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
What, specifically, are you looking for. We have many laws that aren't being properly enforced already. The only think new laws will do is potentially make criminals out of law abiding gun owners as they try to weave their way through our convoluted criminal code. I'd definitely be in favor of much stronger enforcement of existing law which should severely punish those who use firearms in the commission of crimes.
can i ask why people on the MT answer a question with a question rather than noting other peoples points or actually debating with them?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
who gives a fuck about cost if it means lives are saved? seriously? i remember the Aussie gun amnesty brought in tons of guns.. i literally mean tons!! hopefully someone can answer you with figures!
Ahh, the "if it save just one life it's worth it" argument. $500,000,000 was spent to buy back 600,000 guns with no effect on crime rate (although there hasn't been another mass killing yet).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
can i ask why people on the MT answer a question with a question rather than noting other peoples points or actually debating with them?
I both asked a question and and noted a point suggesting enforcement of existing laws. In my other post I asked 2 questions, and referred to another post where the answers were covered. Although I was incorrect, the answers weren't in this gun thread, but rather in the last. Why did you only ask a question in this post?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
interestingly i just read... "... In 1995, there were 81 homicides in Britain involving handguns" thats out of a population of some 56million (1/5 of the US) and the death rates of the US in 1994 were 17,000 as a result of gun-related homicides... thats a staggering comparison... one that will yet again be overlooked by the pro-gunners on here but i'll keep banging the drum
17,000 in 1994 in the us; and hippiemom posted this a few pages back.
According to the U.S. Justice Department, in 2004 (the last year for which statistics are available), there were 10,624 homicides committed with a gun, and 5,484 committed with all other weapons combined.
Comments
its still at least 5 times higher than all the next 25 industrialised nations combined.... per capita... ok its low in the grand scheme of things but tell that to the parent of a kid who has no face.
the difference between the US and the next 25 nations in the world is, yup, you have a flimsy almost unmanaged gun registration system... the other countries have some stricter controls.
i cant believe you're equating the registration of guns in the US to ensure safer control in the worlds leading democracy to that of a depression era right wing Germany.... its laughable
you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that any child has been killed with a firearm. only child deaths which are mostly caused by drunk drivers and alcoholic or drug addicted parents.
safer control of what?
didnt you read the link or what i posted
firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
now that may not be shocking to you as its still a low figure... but it shocks me that kids die as a result of gun negligence... it also shocks me that its 12 times higher than that of the other nations COMBINED!! dont you agree that the figures are disturbing?
also its not some weird anti-gun website that one (like the NRA or gunsdontkill.com)
the aforementioned guns.. it was in the sentence dude.. it was clear what i meant.
Someone needs to help the Iraqi's attain their freedom from America.
????? i think we need more control of criminals. when you get the criminals to register let me know. i'll register then.
i thought there was other countries helping free the iraqis too??? the uk being one of them.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Thanks for this link. Very interesting read.
I think it's interesting you contradict yourself, at least in my opinion. You've mentioned several times that a gun ban (which I wouldn't support by the way) would only punish the law abiding citizens, the criminals would still be able to buy their guns on the black market.
You say a total gun ban would leave you (the law abiding citizens) powerless against the government, yet guns would be readily available on the black market, you have guns stored the authorities would never find and I imagine you're not the only one. You said there are plenty of 'secret militias' with enough firepower to stop the government.
naděje umírá poslední
957 kids killed compared to the millions of people who's lives have been saved by defensive use of firearms every year.
I still fail to see the logic behind wanting 'stricter' gun laws or an outright ban.
Any stats? Any proof they would have been dead otherwise?
You fail to see the logic?
Here:
firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
naděje umírá poslední
thats subjective and has no proof whatsoever.... its akin to sayng dropping the bomb on hiroshima saved millions of americans lives... no-one can prove that at all... whereas the corpse of a dead kid is solid evidence rather than guessing number of lives saved
and you only fail to see the logic because you dont want to admit the logic... i.e. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined
its shameful that you think thats an ok statistic....
Mousa: This is Afghanistan... Alexander the Great try to conquer this country... then Genghis Khan, then the British. Now Russia. But Afghan people fight hard, they never be defeated. Ancient enemy make prayer about these people... you wish to hear?
Rambo: Um-hum.
Mousa: Very good. It says, 'May God deliver us from the venom of the Cobra, teeth of the tiger, and the vengeance of the Afghan.' Understand what this means?
Rambo: That you guys don't take any shit?
Mousa: Yes... something like this.
it is very very strange to see a nation of people debating whether they are allowed to own guns...i mean.. A FUCKING GUN???......
but i guess as an aussie ill never understand the fascination.....we had a government buy back of guns here back when we had a massacre....it was for the better.....i cant remember the last time a mass shooting happened...
ahh u yanks.......why do u want your guns.......i guess u feel so manly WHEN AAAAAAAARRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDD
ps i said yank in an affectionate way
"1.5 million defensive users"
http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt
Outlaw the automobile first. Kills more children per year.
interestingly from that very link you have provided:-
o About 211,000 handguns and 382,000 long guns were
stolen in noncommercial thefts in 1994.
wow!!!! thats a lot of illegal guns on the streets... just shows that gun keepers arent doing their best to look after them
o Slightly more than half of all privately owned
firearms were stored unlocked; 16 percent of
firearms were stored unlocked and loaded.
again thats a shocking stat, stored unlocked!!!! no wonder kids are shooting each other pretending to be cowboys
o Evidence suggests that this survey and others
like it overestimate the frequency with which
firearms were used by private citizens to defend
against criminal attack.
and i rest my case!
For example, in only a small fraction of rape and
robbery attempts do victims use guns in
self-defense. It does not make sense, then, that
the NSPOF estimate of the number of rapes in which
a woman defended herself with a gun was more than
the total number of rapes estimated from NCVS
(exhibit 8).
also
Gun storage. Of 1,356 accidental deaths by gunshot in 1994, 185 involved children 14 years old and younger.[11] For each such fatality, there are several accidental shootings that cause serious injury. Guns were also the means of destruction in 19,590 suicides, 210 involving children 14 or younger. For these reasons, safe handling and storage of firearms have attracted the attention of the public health community.
We found that 20 percent of all gun-owning households had an unlocked, loaded gun in the home at the time of the survey. This figure was substantially higher among handgun-owning households than among households with long guns only--30 percent versus 7 percent.
Slightly more than half of firearms of either type were stored unlocked, but handguns were much more likely to be loaded. Reflecting their predominant
use in self-defense, handguns were likely to be stored in bedrooms or vehicles of owners or even on their person, while most long guns were kept in gun closets or other out-of-the-way places (exhibit 6).
Although training programs usually include suggestions on how to store guns safely, it does not appear that trainees are paying attention. More
than half (56 percent) of owners had received some form of "formal" training from the military, law enforcement, National Rifle Association, National Safety Council, or other source. As a group, owners who received such training were no less likely than others to keep guns loaded and unlocked. This
surprising result is consistent with other recent studies.[12]
Did you even read it, if you did I really can't understand why you posted it. I suggest you read it before you post it.
Besides it's about 1994, this is 2007.
When they design a car that is meant to kill, we'll talk. And I never spoke of outlawing.
naděje umírá poslední
for that same source.
naděje umírá poslední
me neither Collin... just of tighter controls that match or better those in other countries that dont have this problem!
What effect did your ban have on the crime rate?
How much did this ban cost you/your gov't? How many guns were confiscated?
Hint: this has already been covered in this thread. I'm glad you haven't had another mass shooting yet.
who gives a fuck about cost if it means lives are saved? seriously? i remember the Aussie gun amnesty brought in tons of guns.. i literally mean tons!! hopefully someone can answer you with figures!
for instance here in Scotland and i believe the UK, since Dunblane Massacre, it is illegal to own any handgun whatsoever..
from cnn
The deadline in Britain was part of the Firearms Amendment Act, which was introduced after a gunman killed 16 school children and their teacher in the Scottish town of Dunblane a year and a half ago.
The ban tightens what was already one of the world's strictest gun laws. It took effect in July, but a grace period for the handover was extended until the end of this month.
The new law bans the possession of all handguns of .22 caliber and above and those able to fire more than one shot at a time.
Britain had an estimated 200,000 legally-registered handguns, and the law will ban about four-fifths of them.
interestingly i just read... "... In 1995, there were 81 homicides in Britain involving handguns" thats out of a population of some 56million (1/5 of the US) and the death rates of the US in 1994 were 17,000 as a result of gun-related homicides... thats a staggering comparison... one that will yet again be overlooked by the pro-gunners on here but i'll keep banging the drum
can i ask why people on the MT answer a question with a question rather than noting other peoples points or actually debating with them?
Ahh, the "if it save just one life it's worth it" argument. $500,000,000 was spent to buy back 600,000 guns with no effect on crime rate (although there hasn't been another mass killing yet).
I both asked a question and and noted a point suggesting enforcement of existing laws. In my other post I asked 2 questions, and referred to another post where the answers were covered. Although I was incorrect, the answers weren't in this gun thread, but rather in the last. Why did you only ask a question in this post?
17,000 in 1994 in the us; and hippiemom posted this a few pages back.
According to the U.S. Justice Department, in 2004 (the last year for which statistics are available), there were 10,624 homicides committed with a gun, and 5,484 committed with all other weapons combined.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicid...weaponstab.htm
so in 10 years the homicide rate dropped by almost 7,000. almost half.