Loose Change....

jlew24asu

sonicreducer wrote:

what i don't understand is how you don't discuss the contents of that website. you automatically dismiss it. on most issues, you present information and debate it (such as the oil issues). though, anything pertaining to 9/11 is outlandish to you. why can't you just not post about it?

I have looked extensively at the contents of the site and dont find it to be true or crediable. The site was created by one person with the help of a few others.
Jim Hoffman, Webmaster and Senior Editor
Gregg Roberts, Associate Editor
Victoria Ashley, Research Consultant
Jan Hoyer, Media Coordinator

I happen to think the 9/11 commision report to be true. The Commission was staffed by nearly 80 full-time employees, contractors, and detailees, and is organized into work teams to address each of the following topics:

Al Qaeda and the Organization of the 9-11 Attack

Intelligence Collection, Analysis, and Management (including oversight and resource allocation)

International Counterterrorism Policy, including states that harbor or harbored terrorists, or offer or offered terrorists safe havens

Terrorist Financing

Border Security and Foreign Visitors

Law Enforcement and Intelligence Collection inside the United States

Commercial Aviation and Transportation Security, including an

Investigation into the Circumstances of the Four Hijackings

The Immediate Response to the Attacks at the National, State, and Local levels, including issues of Continuity of Government


I have read the report cover to cover and believe it. Do I believe it blindly? no. I have gone through Hoffman's site, and others, and can't find any proof our government was involved.

DPrival78

jlew24asu wrote:

I have read the report cover to cover and believe it.

what do you think about the report's explanation of building 7? oh i forgot, it's not mentioned, they must have forgotten about it. minor detail, i guess..

what about the report saying that the gov't never could have imagined planes being used as missiles, when in reality, NORAD had run numerous drills simulating that very circumstance?

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

I have looked extensively at the contents of the site and dont find it to be true or crediable. The site was created by one person with the help of a few others.
Jim Hoffman, Webmaster and Senior Editor
Gregg Roberts, Associate Editor
Victoria Ashley, Research Consultant
Jan Hoyer, Media Coordinator

quote]

So you're saying just because they are a small operation that they aren't credible? The Fox News Network is a very larg operation, does that make them credible in your eyes?

Granted, I know you're a staunch conservative, and probably think Fox News IS credible, but it's clear they are very one sided.

rebornFixer

DPrival78 wrote:

what do you think about the report's explanation of building 7? oh i forgot, it's not mentioned, they must have forgotten about it. minor detail, i guess..

what about the report saying that the gov't never could have imagined planes being used as missiles, when in reality, NORAD had run numerous drills simulating that very circumstance?

Errors in a government report could very well be indicative of incompetance ... But they don't serve as good evidence for a cover-up.

jlew24asu

DPrival78 wrote:

what about the report saying that the gov't never could have imagined planes being used as missiles, when in reality, NORAD had run numerous drills simulating that very circumstance?

actually no they didnt.

"It is unclear whether the simulated scenario was that of a hijacked plane being "used as missile" -- intentionally crashing into a building -- or that of an out-of-control hijacked plane.

Military officials said the exercise involved simulating a crash into a building that would be recognizable if identified, but was not the World Trade Center or the Pentagon.

They emphasize it involved an airliner being hijacked as it flew into U.S. airspace from abroad, a slightly different scenario from what happened on September 11, 2001."


this is from Gen. Ralph Eberhart, commander of NORAD, during an interview with CNN.

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

Granted, I know you're a staunch conservative, and probably think Fox News IS credible, but it's clear they are very one sided.

you dont know shit about me. I am NOT a staunch conservative. now you know.

jlew24asu

DPrival78 wrote:

what do you think about the report's explanation of building 7? oh i forgot, it's not mentioned, they must have forgotten about it. minor detail, i guess..

I clearly listed the objectives of the report

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

So you're saying just because they are a small operation that they aren't credible? The Fox News Network is a very larg operation, does that make them credible in your eyes?

Granted, I know you're a staunch conservative, and probably think Fox News IS credible, but it's clear they are very one sided.

what is this fantasy everyone has with fox news. Why is it bad for Fox to lean to the right (and be uncredible, according to you) and ALL others lean heavily to the left and be perfectly fine with it? (and very credible)

rebornFixer

jlew24asu wrote:

what is this fantasy everyone haswith fox news. Why is it bad for Fox to lean to the right (and be uncredible, according to you) and ALL others lean heavily to the left and be perfectly fine with it?

I was wondering the same thing ... I am not even an American, but I've had people tell me to quit watching Fox news.

jlew24asu

reborncareerist wrote:

I was wondering the same thing ... I am not even an American, but I've had people tell me to quit watching Fox news.

FOX news has been the # 1 news station in America for the past five years. All the other media outlets like to demonize the station for liking Bush and for killing them in the ratings.

ledvedderman

I think peoples problems with Fox is they don't even try to be down the middle. The other stations fell for this administrations propeganda for a while, but the others don't now. The problem with Fox is they claim to be "Fair and Balanced" when they are anything but that.

Hope&Anger

jlew24asu wrote:

what is this fantasy everyone has with fox news. Why is it bad for Fox to lean to the right (and be uncredible, according to you) and ALL others lean heavily to the left and be perfectly fine with it? (and very credible)

Do ALL others really lean heavily to the left. I mean, I'm a liberal, but hardly a leftist, and I gave up watching TV news until Keith Olbermann kicked into overdrive. (This doesn't count Fake News -- I've watched the Daily Show for years.)

Up until Bush's poll numbers started going down, no one criticized Bush at all. The entire media gave him a free pass on the first couple of years of Iraq. No one asked a single tough question about WMDs. In fact, Judy Miller at the NYTimes -- that bastion of left-wing propoganda -- basically propped up that fake WMD bullshit. In fact, as a liberal watching CNN and MSNBC, I had the impression that they were trying to compete with Fox by being more conservative.

And look at the reaction to Olbermann -- he steps up and says the Emperor has no clothes, and the NY Post starts writing stories about his sex life. (And I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it -- he does kind of make fun of O'Reilley's "loofah" problem -- but Keith doesn't just dish it out -- he takes it too!!)

Anyway, Fox really does only have one message and one message alone. Bush is great. Democrats are cut and runners and traitors and pedophiles and on and on. I'm not sure that its ratings are a sign of its quality. There's a lot of shit on TV that gets really high ratings. (I won't say what I'm thinking of.)

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

I think peoples problems with Fox is they don't even try to be down the middle. The other stations fell for this administrations propeganda for a while, but the others don't now. The problem with Fox is they claim to be "Fair and Balanced" when they are anything but that.

thats your opinion. I think they do try to show both sides. but since they do show the "administrations propeganda", people like you, dont want to hear so they are automaticly unfair assholes.

jlew24asu

Hope&Anger wrote:

Anyway, Fox really does only have one message and one message alone. Bush is great.

I wont break down every sentence but this sums up your post and I disagree.

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

I wont break down every sentence but this sums up your post and I disagree.

I can find more fair and balanced video in that kick ass link you posted in the AET than I could on Fox News. Whoever replied right after I posted hit it right on the head.

Hope&Anger

jlew24asu wrote:

I wont break down every sentence but this sums up your post and I disagree.

Well, most of my post was about the mainstream media, not about Fox, but whatever.

And enlighten me -- who on Fox offers alternative perspectives? And no fair counting Alan Colmes. Nervous giggling is not opinion!

sonicreducer

farfromglorified wrote:

I simply expect that all theories be held to the same standards by those actually interested in what happened as opposed to those interested in what they wanted to happen.

i agree. but, the purpose of me saying what i said about loose change is that it does bring up valid ideas and questions. take it for what it is worth, but don't believe it to be absolute truth. that is why i said is was up to him/her to make their best judgement and i gave them a pretty good link. jlew can say what he wants about jim hoffman, but there are things on that site that will make you question the official explanation.

i am particularly interested in building #7 and the way the towers fell. i think that neither the commission report nor the nist report did a good job pertaining to either. they made just as many assumptions as the credible alternative theories have to come to their conclusion. granted, there are wackjob conspiracy theories and wackjob theorists who don't help the alternative views. someone had a good statement the other day about all dissenters being marginalized based on claims made by the most outlandish dissenters. it's the same stuff here, though i would expect someone like you to look past that. along similar lines, there are wackjobs who won't even consider the possibility of corruption because they don't want to hear it. it's not that easy to dismiss. anyhow, would you agree that there should be an investigation into the more credible alternative theories?

DPrival78

jlew24asu wrote:

actually no they didnt.

"It is unclear whether the simulated scenario was that of a hijacked plane being "used as missile" -- intentionally crashing into a building -- or that of an out-of-control hijacked plane.

Military officials said the exercise involved simulating a crash into a building that would be recognizable if identified, but was not the World Trade Center or the Pentagon.

this is from Gen. Ralph Eberhart, commander of NORAD, during an interview with CNN.

well that contradicts this, from USA today, which specifically points out that the WTC and pentagon were targets of the simulations:

One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon— but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

and also why would bush and others come out and say that that no one could have ever imagined planes being used to hit buildings? not only did NORAD run these drills.. but the CIA was running a drill on september 11th simulating a plane crashing into a building near washington. (which is one hell of a coincidence)

JamMastaE

9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!no one cares if you "THINK" people in this gov. would do such a thing,THEY DID!!pull your dumb,Apathetic head out of your ass and do some research!!not an hour or three but weeks,months and years like me.the future of your freedom is much more important than even Pearl Jam!!there is so much info if you look for it.there are agents all over the net with an agenda of disinformation,maybe some right here on this site.They try to make it look like your some tin-foil hat wear'n kook if you don't believe the gov.s story of these events,don't fall for that shit.ever hear of "Scholars for 9/11 Truth"?very intelligent people share these kooky thoughts,also many gov. insiders have come forward to say they think it was an inside job.funny how all these arm-chair political "experts" come out of the woodwork now,sorry assholes,go back to watching football and porn,your ignorant ass is'nt doing america any good,mr. joe six pac who has disconnected himself from our political system and doesn't have a clue as to whats going on in this country who thinks cuz he drags his dumb ass to the poles to vote on election day is actually taking part and making a difference in the system,fuck you too!! the right and the left is a control mechanism!!both parties are corrupt and no matter who you vote for,they are not gonna save you or change anything for the better of the people.Fuckn Bush just killed the constitution and Habeas Corpus,what do ya know about that?!

go here and start your journey down the rabbit hole!or see ya in the gulags.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

farfromglorified

JamMastaE wrote:

9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!no one cares if you "THINK" people in this gov. would do such a thing,THEY DID!!pull your dumb,Apathetic head out of your ass and do some research!!not an hour or three but weeks,months and years like me.the future of your freedom is much more important than even Pearl Jam!!there is so much info if you look for it.there are agents all over the net with an agenda of disinformation,maybe some right here on this site.They try to make it look like your some tin-foil hat wear'n kook if you don't believe the gov.s story of these events,don't fall for that shit.ever hear of "Scholars for 9/11 Truth"?very intelligent people share these kooky thoughts,also many gov. insiders have come forward to say they think it was an inside job.funny how all these arm-chair political "experts" come out of the woodwork now,sorry assholes,go back to watching football and porn,your ignorant ass is'nt doing america any good,mr. joe six pac who has disconnected himself from our political system and doesn't have a clue as to whats going on in this country who thinks cuz he drags his dumb ass to the poles to vote on election day is actually taking part and making a difference in the system,fuck you too!! the right and the left is a control mechanism!!both parties are corrupt and no matter who you vote for,they are not gonna save you or change anything for the better of the people.Fuckn Bush just killed the constitution and Habeas Corpus,what do ya know about that?!

go here and start your journey down the rabbit hole!or see ya in the gulags.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

This sums it up quite nicely.