Funny cause that is what the official version uses to though...you have to use science to find the true answer.....and couldn't build a dog house...the man has designed buildings he hardly is just a guy behind a paper...
WOHA! i was referring to the people on this board not being able to build a dog house and debating subjects they don't have educated knowledge of.
i can tell you why it fell straight down and prove it with an experiment you can perform yourself. but it's really not worth my time. people have their minds made up. nothing will change that. building are built differently so your comparison doesn't make sense. it's like saying building x in CA didn't fall because of the earthquake because the building next to it didn't fall. it must have been explosives.
and so what if it was explosives? the result is the same. if you don't believe the confessions of those responsible than what will you believe? some people have such boring lives that they come up with these wild theories and try to promote them.
only 3 steel frame buildings to fall in history all fell on the same day and all were owned by a single person, that casts doubt.
how did building 7 fall?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yes, there are some very well educated dentists, theologists, solar energy experts, journalists, lecturers, pilots, peace activists, economists, and environmental health experts he can point to.
Tracy Blevins (FM)
Bioengineering, Rice University
Robert M. Bowman (FM)
Former Director of the U.S. "Star Wars" Space Defense Program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, and a former Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions
Robert S. Boyer (FM)
Philosophy; Mathematics; Computer Science; University of Texas, Austin
Andreas von Buelow (FM)
Former assistant German defense minister, director of the German Secret Service, minister for research and technology, and member of Parliament for 25 years
Ted Elden (FM)
Architect, Communicator
Derrick P. Grimmer (FM)
Physics, Alternative energy
David Griscom (FM)
Physics of optical materials, Materials science and engineering, Author/co-author of nearly 200 publications
Andrew Johnson (FM)
Physics, Computer Science, Software Engineering
Steven Jones (FM)
Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of S9/11T and the creator of its home page and its forum
Jean-Pierre Petit (FM)
Aeronautics, astrophysics, engineering
Morgan Reynolds (FM)
Texas A & M Professor Emeritus of Economics, former Chief Economist for the Department of Labor for President George W. Bush, and former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis
Judy Wood (FM)
Civil and Structural Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, Materials Engineering Science, Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University
Gregory M. Zeigler (FM)
Philosophy, Intelligence, Counterintelligence, Military intelligence
Associate Members
Victoria Ashley (AM)
Architecture and physiological psychology, 911research.wtc7.net
Frank Carmen (AM)
Physics Ph.D., BYU
Muhammad Columbo (AM)
Graduate Engineer electronics wide industrial experience
Eric Douglas (AM)
New York City architect Chair of the Independent Peer Review Committe for the NIST WTC Reports at nistreview.org
Jeff Moskin (AM)
Private pilot, Electronics engineer, Certified flight instructor
Ted Muga (AM)
Naval aviator; Commercial pilot; Structural engineering
Nicholas Newton (AM)
Astrophysics, Simulation Models
Gordon Ross (AM)
Mechanical engineering, Production engineering
Kevin Ryan (AM)
Former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories
Michael Schmidt (AM)
Project engineer, Project manager, Highway construction
Paul Smith (AM)
Electronics engineer
Tom Spellman (AM)
Civil engineering, architecture, non-profits, activism
Judson Witham (AM)
Civil Rights Laws
High Rise/Mid Rise/Low Rise Construction/demolition
Ken Wrenn (AM)
Civil engineer
i'll spare you the student members list...
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
It was that group of German dudes from Die Hard. They got mixed up and thought it was another Die Hard sequel.
does that mean you can't answer how it fell straight down at free fall speed?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
only 3 steel frame buildings to fall in history all fell on the same day and all were owned by a single person, that casts doubt.
how did building 7 fall?
el; only 3 buildings fell in history from metal fatigue due to fire? you don't believe that do you? it's actually common when you consider it's happened in many plane crashes. as i said earlier; i can heat metal and bend or melt it. i can take a piece of rain gutter; configure it to match the buildings airflow; dump a cup or two of gas into it; light it and melt the gutter.
i've also heard many times that "the fire was so intense it melted the metal framework" (refering to other building fires). a controlled implosion would bring the building straight down but it would take a lot of engineering; tons of explosives; access to building plans; etc.
the biggest argument is: if you have explosives; why tip your hand with the plane attack? i'd use it for a different target i couldn't get explosives into. using the element of surprise. if the perpetrators aren't smart enough to figure that out; they're not smart enough to implode a building.
also; if the government did it; why did they target the pentagon and possibly the whitehouse?
el; only 3 buildings fell in history from metal fatigue due to fire? you don't believe that do you? it's actually common when you consider it's happened in many plane crashes. as i said earlier; i can heat metal and bend or melt it. i can take a piece of rain gutter; configure it to match the buildings airflow; dump a cup or two of gas into it; light it and melt the gutter.
i've also heard many times that "the fire was so intense it melted the metal framework" (refering to other building fires). a controlled implosion would bring the building straight down but it would take a lot of engineering; tons of explosives; access to building plans; etc.
the biggest argument is: if you have explosives; why tip your hand with the plane attack? i'd use it for a different target i couldn't get explosives into. using the element of surprise. if the perpetrators aren't smart enough to figure that out; they're not smart enough to implode a building.
also; if the government did it; why did they target the pentagon and possibly the whitehouse?
perhaps you can cite some other steel framed buildings that collapsed from fire?
wouldn't the owner of the buildings (a single person who went to court to get the insurance payment instead of rebuilding) have those blueprints??
if only explsoives were used it would open far too many questions as to how they got them in. hijacked planes crashing into them doesn't require this.
you can SAY the white house was targeted, but how do you come to this conclusion? b/c youwere told it?
the pentagon was hit in the area that was being renovated, very few ppl died and the overwhelming majority manual workers
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
if someone a serial killer says something like i may have a chance w/ john's wife if only he was dead, then he ends up dead...some ppl would see that as motive
difference being 9/11 has been exploited to further an agenda. certain ppl stated they needed 'a catalyzing event like a new pearl harbor' to happen in order for them to fulfill htese agendas...then they take steps that help the event take place.
so, you have a group saying they want a, b and c to happen but only if d happens first can they do it. then yuo have these same ppl doing things that help d happen...then they exploit d so they can carry out a, b and c.
Ok. Can you show me where Dick Cheney says "if only the world trade center were attacked by 'islamic facists' I'd be able to invade Iraq"? Can you show me a direct statement by any member of the administration that matches your analogy?
again, both are theories, yours just has a governmental stamp on it. you are so tied up in being right you can not concede this.
I've "conceded" that a dozen times. I've never said that these things aren't theories. Of course they are theories. Again, in case you missed it:
The validity of a theory or hypothesis is the measure of supporting causal evidence relative to the conclusion. Just because the NIST/FEMA/911commission documents propose theories does not put them on equal ground as someone who proposes a theory that 9/11 was an "inside job" or someone else who proposes a theory that 9/11 was done by space beings from Mars.
Don't spare yourself the research of these names. Here's just one:
Judy Wood (FM)
Civil and Structural Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, Materials Engineering Science, Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University
Judy Wood's "relevant" studies center around the stresses of dentistry.
according ot her college's website she is still in the Department of Mechanical Engineering
she still studied mechanical engineering she has a PhD in Engineering Mechanics, not dentistry...she teaches in the mechanical engineering department of clemson, not dental...any other names you'd like to pick?
also found this:
Judy D. Wood is a Professor of Mechanical Engineering at Clemson University with degrees in Civil Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, and Materials Engineering Science. Professor Wood teaches courses in the areas of engineering mechanics and experimental stress analysis.
where's the 'dental' courses in those?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
you hit the nail on the head and i bet no one catches it.
we have a group of people here who couldn't build a dog house; arguing material science; metalurgy; building stress; sulfur content of jet fuel; flow rates of liquid; etc; and trying to legitimize their conclusions.
and i bet there were places outside of china, hell even in the US, that could've melted the steel from the wtc's down...so why send it to china? i know you can't possibly point to cost b/c it must've cost far more to ship all that to china than perform the work here
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
perhaps you can cite some other steel framed buildings that collapsed from fire?
wouldn't the owner of the buildings (a single person who went to court to get the insurance payment instead of rebuilding) have those blueprints??
if only explsoives were used it would open far too many questions as to how they got them in. hijacked planes crashing into them doesn't require this.
you can SAY the white house was targeted, but how do you come to this conclusion? b/c youwere told it?
the pentagon was hit in the area that was being renovated, very few ppl died and the overwhelming majority manual workers
i don't keep track of every burned building i hear about on the news. i can ask that if it can't happen; then why is temperature a big factor in calculating ubc's and structeral integrity? how can extreeme cold make a metal brittle and require different bracing and engineering? how can one temperature bend and forge a horseshoe and a hotter fire just melt the metal?
too many questions? i'd be proud that i got into a building to plant explosives which seemed impossible to penetrate. any coward can use an airplane. having someone get explosives into that building would have had a greater effect then driving a plane into the building.
i believe i said possibly the whitehouse. i'm sure the gov planted the guys who stopped that flight.
an amature cannot hit a target with much accuracy. if the pentagon attack was a bit higher; the building could have been destroyed much more. just like a bullet to the lung is survivable yet a bullet to the heart is not.
from what i remember; the building could not be rebuilt because of public outcry that a monument should be built; and; that bodies not recovered deserved a burial place. the vacant land is worth a fortune and i'd fight for that too. i also wouldn't torch a building that provided an income large enough to retire myself and my entire family.
You're always looking for people to address you to the point, and be open minded...
we'll please show me an instance where you have admitted to being wrong, biased, short sighted, or respectful of those with differing opinions beyond 1 to 2 posts in a thread?
Hold on a minute....are you telling me that a conservative neo-con group actually wants to spend more on the military, militarize space, and control regions????? I'm shocked.
you do realize this same line of thinking could be used to say
are you telling me that a group of ppl in the government that created, funded, trained and armed death squads didn't care if innocents died to further their agenda???? I'm shocked.
?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If the WTC was taken down by a controlled demolition, which in my opinion wasn't the case. Who placed the explosives? How did they do it so quickly? The blackout was like 30 hours and it covered the top 50 floors. Wouldn't people who went to work that day have noticed holes drilled all over the place and blasting cords running through out the building? If you really want to say that the building was brought down by explosives then tell me how that much explosive material was placed without anyone noticing, in one of the largest buildings in the world, in one of the busiest cities in the world. I'm not interested in Sulfur found in the metal, or Dick Cheney and the PNAC. I just want to focus on the days leading up to 9/11. Those are the questions you should be investigating.
You're always looking for people to address you to the point, and be open minded...
we'll please show me an instance where you have admitted to being wrong, biased, short sighted, or respectful of those with differing opinions beyond 1 to 2 posts in a thread?
i've been wrong before and admitted it, i'm not doing a search to find all the specifics you ask...can you show me any for you for any of your names? remember when you called me a nazi? was that respectful of those with differing opinions? hmm? but off the top of my head i accused know1 of saying something he didn't say, when he said as much i looked it up and admitted both in the thread and in pm that i mixed him up w/ someone else and apologized. i have said in some thread w/ angelica i am biased in some respects (as everyone here is). as for being respectful several ppl who disagree w/ me have said as much. you can ask any of those ppl if you wish, i'm not gonna spend my last 30 min searching for them for you
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
This information has to get out to the people. I just hope people who refuse to believe just the possibility that what happened on 911 was not executed solely by 19 box cutter men. So many people don't want to believe that our goverenment may have been involved. I don't want to believe it. Unfortunately I do believe it. I've believed for almost a year now. I think there is more than enough red flags with the Official story that everyone should be demanding a REAL investigation. But who is there to investigate the most powerful people in the world?
As far as being called a conspiracy theorist for what I believe, I guess I understand where people are coming from. I am just a regular person. I am married and I go to work everyday. I have seen the greatest band in the world (pearl jam) 15 times, my first being at Soldier Field in 1995. Up until about a year ago, I was all about catching Bin Laden and was clueless as to what was actually happening in this world. The world we live in is FUCKED up. Thank God we have Pearl Jam's music to escape into.
according ot her college's website she is still in the Department of Mechanical Engineering. she still studied mechanical engineering she has a PhD in Engineering Mechanics, not dentistry...
Ok. According to her research she has no expertise in structure physics. She studies biomaterials. The next time I need an overbite analyzed, I'll give her a call.
any other names you'd like to pick?
80% of your list doesn't even have a relevant educational background. Sure, your cut-and-paste list wins points for length, but did you even read it? You have economists, particle physicists, government bureaucrats, radio engineers, health scientists and electrical engineers on there. Furthermore, simple research shows that your "architects" build rest areas, homes, and garages.
Furthermore, many members on your list have been largely disowned by the group for suggesting that the planes were holographic or that the government deliberately doctored the media images of 9/11 (along with somehow doctoring the personal images captured).
The co-founder of this group believes that the hijackers are still alive and in secret prisons. His evidence? None. Plausibility is all that matters. And since he's a "Professor Emeritus", he must be right. Even though that "Professor Emeritus" is in philosophy.
you do realize this same line of thinking could be used to say
are you telling me that a group of ppl in the government that created, funded, trained and armed death squads didn't care if innocents died to further their agenda???? I'm shocked.
?
No. That's not the "same line of thinking" because the evidence of Al Qaeda being involved isn't just their platform. There's a reason I don't think Hezbollah or the IRA is behind 9/11. Do you understand that?
80% of your list doesn't even have a relevant educational background. Sure, your cut-and-paste list wins points for length, but did you even read it? You have economists, particle physicists, government bureaucrats, radio engineers, health scientists and electrical engineers on there. Furthermore, simple research shows that your "architects" build rest areas, homes, and garages.
Furthermore, many members on your list have been largely disowned by the group for suggesting that the planes were holographic or that the government deliberately doctored the media images of 9/11 (along with somehow doctoring the personal images captured).
The co-founder of this group believes that the hijackers are still alive and in secret prisons. His evidence? None. Plausibility is all that matters. And since he's a "Professor Emeritus", he must be right. Even though that "Professor Emeritus" is in philosophy.
do i have to believe everything every single one of them says? i was simply contradicting your 'list' youa cted as if the only ppl supporting these theories were theologians and journalists, i only pointed out plenty of other educated ppl think differently. that does not translate to "all these ppl on this list speak for me!"
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If the WTC was taken down by a controlled demolition, which in my opinion wasn't the case. Who placed the explosives? How did they do it so quickly? The blackout was like 30 hours and it covered the top 50 floors. Wouldn't people who went to work that day have noticed holes drilled all over the place and blasting cords running through out the building? If you really want to say that the building was brought down by explosives then tell me how that much explosive material was placed without anyone noticing, in one of the largest buildings in the world, in one of the busiest cities in the world. I'm not interested in Sulfur found in the metal, or Dick Cheney and the PNAC. I just want to focus on the days leading up to 9/11. Those are the questions you should be investigating.
the smell of that much explosives would have been noticed. whether you know the smell or not. since no residue was found and jet fuel is high in sulfur; there is no evidence of explosives except in peoples imaginations. the design of the building made it a blast furnace capable of melting steel.
and i bet there were places outside of china, hell even in the US, that could've melted the steel from the wtc's down...so why send it to china? i know you can't possibly point to cost b/c it must've cost far more to ship all that to china than perform the work here
Good god...
It was sent to China because the Chinese bought it.
do i have to believe everything every single one of them says?
Yes. You posted that list as a list of people that you can "point to". That implies that you would point to them as providing proof for your theories. Or were you posting some that you agree with and others you don't just so the list looked nice and long?
do i have to believe everything every single one of them says? i was simply contradicting your 'list' youa cted as if the only ppl supporting these theories were theologians and journalists, i only pointed out plenty of other educated ppl think differently. that does not translate to "all these ppl on this list speak for me!"
this isn't directed at you el.
why do people believe those not involved with the investigation and evidence yet will consider the opinions of people not involved?
people would rather believe that flight 800 was brought down by a missle when similar problems were found in other planes after the discovery of the defect found during the investigation.
No. That's not the "same line of thinking" because the evidence of Al Qaeda being involved isn't just their platform. There's a reason I don't think Hezbollah or the IRA is behind 9/11. Do you understand that?
Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.
In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.
"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.
USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam....
now perhaps that is a lie, i have no clue, just pointing out he has denied being a part of it
BUT, what is interesting is he called Musharraf a 'lying demon'...i'llhave to look later but i remember reading something about a pakistani (tho i thought it was the head of their intel apparatus) was found to have wired the main hijacker $ a few days before 9/11...i did, however, post thsi before http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=170642
But bin Laden denied to me that he was behind the bombing and claimed he didn't know Ramzi Yousef.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
perhaps you can cite some other steel framed buildings that collapsed from fire?
wouldn't the owner of the buildings (a single person who went to court to get the insurance payment instead of rebuilding) have those blueprints??
if only explsoives were used it would open far too many questions as to how they got them in. hijacked planes crashing into them doesn't require this.
you can SAY the white house was targeted, but how do you come to this conclusion? b/c youwere told it?
the pentagon was hit in the area that was being renovated, very few ppl died and the overwhelming majority manual workers
Perhaps if other steel structure buildings had been hit by a 400 mph missile filled with thousands of gallons of jet fuel then they might have collapsed as well.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Comments
That's funny
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
WOHA! i was referring to the people on this board not being able to build a dog house and debating subjects they don't have educated knowledge of.
only 3 steel frame buildings to fall in history all fell on the same day and all were owned by a single person, that casts doubt.
how did building 7 fall?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
It was that group of German dudes from Die Hard. They got mixed up and thought it was another Die Hard sequel.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
and ppl like these...
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
Full Members
Tracy Blevins (FM)
Bioengineering, Rice University
Robert M. Bowman (FM)
Former Director of the U.S. "Star Wars" Space Defense Program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, and a former Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions
Robert S. Boyer (FM)
Philosophy; Mathematics; Computer Science; University of Texas, Austin
Andreas von Buelow (FM)
Former assistant German defense minister, director of the German Secret Service, minister for research and technology, and member of Parliament for 25 years
Ted Elden (FM)
Architect, Communicator
Derrick P. Grimmer (FM)
Physics, Alternative energy
David Griscom (FM)
Physics of optical materials, Materials science and engineering, Author/co-author of nearly 200 publications
Andrew Johnson (FM)
Physics, Computer Science, Software Engineering
Steven Jones (FM)
Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of S9/11T and the creator of its home page and its forum
Jean-Pierre Petit (FM)
Aeronautics, astrophysics, engineering
Morgan Reynolds (FM)
Texas A & M Professor Emeritus of Economics, former Chief Economist for the Department of Labor for President George W. Bush, and former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis
Judy Wood (FM)
Civil and Structural Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, Materials Engineering Science, Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University
Gregory M. Zeigler (FM)
Philosophy, Intelligence, Counterintelligence, Military intelligence
Associate Members
Victoria Ashley (AM)
Architecture and physiological psychology, 911research.wtc7.net
Frank Carmen (AM)
Physics Ph.D., BYU
Muhammad Columbo (AM)
Graduate Engineer electronics wide industrial experience
Eric Douglas (AM)
New York City architect Chair of the Independent Peer Review Committe for the NIST WTC Reports at nistreview.org
Dominic Dudzik (AM)
Physics simulations, Electrical engineering
Brian Duncan (AM)
Fire Protection Engineering; Art and Creative Director; The Flywire
Scott Fenton (AM)
Physics, Chemistry, Information Technology
Joel Ferrell (AM)
Pilot, Aeronautical engineer, physics911.net/spine.htm
Robert Fritzius (AM)
Electrical Engineering, Radar and telecommunications
Alex L. Funk (AM)
Electronic engineering, Research and development
Patrick Gallagher (AM)
Mechanical engineer
Michael Gass (AM)
Air Force Explosive Ordnance, Disposal Specialist, Bomb disposal technician
Rodger Herbst (AM)
777 and 787 Aeronautics, Flight Controls and Simulation Engineering
Eric Hermanson (AM)
Engineering Physics, Nuclear Engineering, Software Architect
Nick Hull (AM)
Particle Physics
Kent Knudson (AM)
Systems Engineering
Paul Landis (AM)
Industrial engineering, Author of "A Real 9/11 Commission"
Spero Larres (AM)
Physics and Mathematics, Rutgers University
Michael Lovingier (AM)
Structural/Environmental Engineering
Michael Maguire (AM)
Mechanical engineering, Aeronatutical engineering
David Masdon (AM)
Electrical Engineering
Brad Mayeux (AM)
RF Engineering, 911review.org
Peter Meyer (AM)
Computational physics
Dennis "galen" Mitrzyk (AM)
Physics and math, Business administration
Aidan Monaghan (AM)
Electronics engineering, explosive911analysis.com
Jeff Moskin (AM)
Private pilot, Electronics engineer, Certified flight instructor
Ted Muga (AM)
Naval aviator; Commercial pilot; Structural engineering
Nicholas Newton (AM)
Astrophysics, Simulation Models
Gordon Ross (AM)
Mechanical engineering, Production engineering
Kevin Ryan (AM)
Former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories
Michael Schmidt (AM)
Project engineer, Project manager, Highway construction
Paul Smith (AM)
Electronics engineer
Tom Spellman (AM)
Civil engineering, architecture, non-profits, activism
Judson Witham (AM)
Civil Rights Laws
High Rise/Mid Rise/Low Rise Construction/demolition
Ken Wrenn (AM)
Civil engineer
i'll spare you the student members list...
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
does that mean you can't answer how it fell straight down at free fall speed?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
el; only 3 buildings fell in history from metal fatigue due to fire? you don't believe that do you? it's actually common when you consider it's happened in many plane crashes. as i said earlier; i can heat metal and bend or melt it. i can take a piece of rain gutter; configure it to match the buildings airflow; dump a cup or two of gas into it; light it and melt the gutter.
i've also heard many times that "the fire was so intense it melted the metal framework" (refering to other building fires). a controlled implosion would bring the building straight down but it would take a lot of engineering; tons of explosives; access to building plans; etc.
the biggest argument is: if you have explosives; why tip your hand with the plane attack? i'd use it for a different target i couldn't get explosives into. using the element of surprise. if the perpetrators aren't smart enough to figure that out; they're not smart enough to implode a building.
also; if the government did it; why did they target the pentagon and possibly the whitehouse?
i can and did but you won't accept it.
perhaps you can cite some other steel framed buildings that collapsed from fire?
wouldn't the owner of the buildings (a single person who went to court to get the insurance payment instead of rebuilding) have those blueprints??
if only explsoives were used it would open far too many questions as to how they got them in. hijacked planes crashing into them doesn't require this.
you can SAY the white house was targeted, but how do you come to this conclusion? b/c youwere told it?
the pentagon was hit in the area that was being renovated, very few ppl died and the overwhelming majority manual workers
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Don't spare yourself the research of these names. Here's just one:
Judy Wood (FM)
Civil and Structural Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, Materials Engineering Science, Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University
Judy Wood's "relevant" studies center around the stresses of dentistry.
Ok. Can you show me where Dick Cheney says "if only the world trade center were attacked by 'islamic facists' I'd be able to invade Iraq"? Can you show me a direct statement by any member of the administration that matches your analogy?
I've "conceded" that a dozen times. I've never said that these things aren't theories. Of course they are theories. Again, in case you missed it:
The validity of a theory or hypothesis is the measure of supporting causal evidence relative to the conclusion. Just because the NIST/FEMA/911commission documents propose theories does not put them on equal ground as someone who proposes a theory that 9/11 was an "inside job" or someone else who proposes a theory that 9/11 was done by space beings from Mars.
according ot her college's website she is still in the Department of Mechanical Engineering
she still studied mechanical engineering she has a PhD in Engineering Mechanics, not dentistry...she teaches in the mechanical engineering department of clemson, not dental...any other names you'd like to pick?
also found this:
Judy D. Wood is a Professor of Mechanical Engineering at Clemson University with degrees in Civil Engineering, Engineering Mechanics, and Materials Engineering Science. Professor Wood teaches courses in the areas of engineering mechanics and experimental stress analysis.
where's the 'dental' courses in those?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
and i bet there were places outside of china, hell even in the US, that could've melted the steel from the wtc's down...so why send it to china? i know you can't possibly point to cost b/c it must've cost far more to ship all that to china than perform the work here
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
we'll never know if ya don't try, will we?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i don't keep track of every burned building i hear about on the news. i can ask that if it can't happen; then why is temperature a big factor in calculating ubc's and structeral integrity? how can extreeme cold make a metal brittle and require different bracing and engineering? how can one temperature bend and forge a horseshoe and a hotter fire just melt the metal?
too many questions? i'd be proud that i got into a building to plant explosives which seemed impossible to penetrate. any coward can use an airplane. having someone get explosives into that building would have had a greater effect then driving a plane into the building.
i believe i said possibly the whitehouse. i'm sure the gov planted the guys who stopped that flight.
an amature cannot hit a target with much accuracy. if the pentagon attack was a bit higher; the building could have been destroyed much more. just like a bullet to the lung is survivable yet a bullet to the heart is not.
from what i remember; the building could not be rebuilt because of public outcry that a monument should be built; and; that bodies not recovered deserved a burial place. the vacant land is worth a fortune and i'd fight for that too. i also wouldn't torch a building that provided an income large enough to retire myself and my entire family.
You're always looking for people to address you to the point, and be open minded...
we'll please show me an instance where you have admitted to being wrong, biased, short sighted, or respectful of those with differing opinions beyond 1 to 2 posts in a thread?
you do realize this same line of thinking could be used to say
are you telling me that a group of ppl in the government that created, funded, trained and armed death squads didn't care if innocents died to further their agenda???? I'm shocked.
?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i've been wrong before and admitted it, i'm not doing a search to find all the specifics you ask...can you show me any for you for any of your names? remember when you called me a nazi? was that respectful of those with differing opinions? hmm? but off the top of my head i accused know1 of saying something he didn't say, when he said as much i looked it up and admitted both in the thread and in pm that i mixed him up w/ someone else and apologized. i have said in some thread w/ angelica i am biased in some respects (as everyone here is). as for being respectful several ppl who disagree w/ me have said as much. you can ask any of those ppl if you wish, i'm not gonna spend my last 30 min searching for them for you
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
As far as being called a conspiracy theorist for what I believe, I guess I understand where people are coming from. I am just a regular person. I am married and I go to work everyday. I have seen the greatest band in the world (pearl jam) 15 times, my first being at Soldier Field in 1995. Up until about a year ago, I was all about catching Bin Laden and was clueless as to what was actually happening in this world. The world we live in is FUCKED up. Thank God we have Pearl Jam's music to escape into.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265576
Ok. According to her research she has no expertise in structure physics. She studies biomaterials. The next time I need an overbite analyzed, I'll give her a call.
80% of your list doesn't even have a relevant educational background. Sure, your cut-and-paste list wins points for length, but did you even read it? You have economists, particle physicists, government bureaucrats, radio engineers, health scientists and electrical engineers on there. Furthermore, simple research shows that your "architects" build rest areas, homes, and garages.
Furthermore, many members on your list have been largely disowned by the group for suggesting that the planes were holographic or that the government deliberately doctored the media images of 9/11 (along with somehow doctoring the personal images captured).
The co-founder of this group believes that the hijackers are still alive and in secret prisons. His evidence? None. Plausibility is all that matters. And since he's a "Professor Emeritus", he must be right. Even though that "Professor Emeritus" is in philosophy.
No. That's not the "same line of thinking" because the evidence of Al Qaeda being involved isn't just their platform. There's a reason I don't think Hezbollah or the IRA is behind 9/11. Do you understand that?
do i have to believe everything every single one of them says? i was simply contradicting your 'list' youa cted as if the only ppl supporting these theories were theologians and journalists, i only pointed out plenty of other educated ppl think differently. that does not translate to "all these ppl on this list speak for me!"
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the smell of that much explosives would have been noticed. whether you know the smell or not. since no residue was found and jet fuel is high in sulfur; there is no evidence of explosives except in peoples imaginations. the design of the building made it a blast furnace capable of melting steel.
Good god...
It was sent to China because the Chinese bought it.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Jan/25776.htm
Yes. You posted that list as a list of people that you can "point to". That implies that you would point to them as providing proof for your theories. Or were you posting some that you agree with and others you don't just so the list looked nice and long?
this isn't directed at you el.
why do people believe those not involved with the investigation and evidence yet will consider the opinions of people not involved?
people would rather believe that flight 800 was brought down by a missle when similar problems were found in other planes after the discovery of the defect found during the investigation.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.america.under.attack/
Bin Laden denies role in New York, Washington slaughter
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html
Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.
In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.
"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm
USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam....
now perhaps that is a lie, i have no clue, just pointing out he has denied being a part of it
BUT, what is interesting is he called Musharraf a 'lying demon'...i'llhave to look later but i remember reading something about a pakistani (tho i thought it was the head of their intel apparatus) was found to have wired the main hijacker $ a few days before 9/11...i did, however, post thsi before
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=170642
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/miller.html
But bin Laden denied to me that he was behind the bombing and claimed he didn't know Ramzi Yousef.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Perhaps if other steel structure buildings had been hit by a 400 mph missile filled with thousands of gallons of jet fuel then they might have collapsed as well.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-