Photos of Israeli Children 'Signing' Missiles Stir Controversy

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Comments

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    baraka wrote:
    I agree with this statement. The cycle of violence has to stop somewhere. Sadly, until both sides learn to respect each others right to exist, this madness will only continue. There has to come a point when finger pointing stops and progressive peace negotiations begin.
    For that to happen Israel and the United States to to recognize the palestinian people's right to exist and cease all hostile actions towards them.
  • Just imagine having or letting our school age children sign bombs to get Bin Laden. It's just sick to teach children that killing is how to solve your problems. It instills this neverending cycle of hate and hinders any chance of peace or a solution to this.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Commy wrote:
    For that to happen Israel and the United States to to recognize the palestinian people's right to exist and cease all hostile actions towards them.

    Of course, thus my quote, 'until both sides learn to respect each others right to exist..........'
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Just imagine having or letting our school age children signing bombs to get Bin Laden. It's just sick to teach children that killing is how to solve your problems. It instills this neverending cycle of hate and hinders any chance of peace or a solution to this.

    Exactly, most young children are going to equate a 'figure head/heads' of the conflicting group to the whole group of said people. Children signing bombs, regardless if they're only directed toward Nasrallah fans the flames for fear & hate toward a much larger group of people & this is inappropriate. & this works both ways on both sides.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    shiraz wrote:
    This, This is what I'm talking about. Assuming things just becasue someone said something that matched your point of view and there we have it - the whole world is now thinking these Israeli *kids* and maybe all Israeli kids are evil.

    How LOW can you guys go?"

    That artical proves I was right. Great, so now our kids are evil. Yeah, good for you. Keep on "not" stirring up the air storm.

    in no way do i believe that israeli kids are evil. as a parent i find the signing of missiles, bombs or whatever abhorrant no matter what the hell they are saying. who is in charge of these children? where is the responsibility of care?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • in no way do i believe that israeli kids are evil. as a parent i find the signing of missiles, bombs or whatever abhorrant no matter what the hell they are saying. who is in charge of these children? where is the responsibility of care?


    It seems that some people would see it as their responsibility to teach their childern who the enemy is, which would be THEM. (Please, take notice that "THEM" does not refer to a specific group of people, but rather more like the Pink Floyd song. Jesus. Calm the fuck down). It's fucking ridiculous. Oh my god. What the fuck.!?!
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    El_Kabong wrote:

    i did not say what you are claiming. in both that reply and the original one in this i stated that it is horrible to do this to children...i am not demonizing israelis, i'm saying kids are being taught to hate on both sides and it is sick!

    And I'm telling you that the Hate for Hizbullah comes naturally, nobody needs to teach them these kind of things, we're talking about a TERROR ORGANIZATION.
    El_Kabong wrote:
    as flor my lack of hebrew knowledge, i will rely on the Jerueslem Post, which certainly does know hebrew.according to an ISRAELI newspaper they signed them ambiguously w/ things like 'from israel w/ love' i also stated it does not matter if they were signing them just to hezbollah (which the israeli newspaper refuted), it is WRONG.

    It DOES matter, because all over the board and other websites, people claim those children were "signing gifts for the Lebanese", and that is a lie. I don't think there's something wrong with hating a terror organization who is destroying everybody's life just because it can (hence, I don't have a problem with stuff like "from Israel with love..." that were adressed to the Hizbullah). I do have a problem with this whole scenario (as I said before), meaning our kids shouldn't have done any of it, they weren't even suppose to be around these weapons and that is indeed wrong (and I already wrote that).
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i never said, implied or did anything to mean 'all israeli kids are bloodthirsty' what i said is israeli childrend are being raised to hate and that is horrible.

    Yes you did, and not only you. It is called demagoguery, and you use this method in most of you posts (and not only you). Hence, you don't to say it loud and clear, just write "DEAR SOLDIER, PLEASE KILL A LOT OF ARABS" as a response to the case in Lebanon and there we have it: 1+1 =2, those kids from the picture hate arabs and are signing gifts for the Lebanese. Other may think all Israeli's think that way, and why? because of some isolated well published incident from 2002. I'm not saying stuff like that never happened here (I'm sure there's lots of similar cases in the US), but you are doing a dangerous generalization and THAT is wrong.


    El_Kabong wrote:
    if you want i can repost the videos of israeli children (living in an occupied territory) throwing rocks at, punching and kicking arabs while the idf stands around doing nothing to stop it. this is not to demonize israeli children, it's to show they are being raised to hate a certain group just like some palestinian/arab kids are.

    This IS a demonizing of israeli (or Palestinian) children, becuse someone who sees these kind of things along with your demagogic titles would think ALL Israeli (or Palestinian) kids are full with hate and are being raised that way.

    El_Kabong wrote:
    you have to admit your own mistakes before you can work on solving them

    I would suggest you'll adress those words to yourself cause:
    El_Kabong wrote:
    to just say the arabs are the ones taught to hate and constantly rationalize the other side of it will get nowhere in terms of peace.

    I NEVER EVER SAID THIS, which proves yet once again you are a VREY demagogic person who reads what he wants to read, not what I ACTUALLY wrote. Now people will read (or alreay read) your post, they won't bother to check what I really posted and some of them may start thinking: "Shiraz thinks all arabs are educated to hate", which leads us to "Israeli's think all arab are educated to hate" and there you have it - demagogy in its full glory. Make no mistake, this is EXACTLY how it works, and I think you know that very well so stop playing the "innocent" guy.
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    in no way do i believe that israeli kids are evil. as a parent i find the signing of missiles, bombs or whatever abhorrant no matter what the hell they are saying. who is in charge of these children? where is the responsibility of care?

    You won't. Others may do. And as I've said before this whole scenario is wrong, however evryone who has something to say about it connected it with "Israeli kids are signing gifts to the Lebanese", which is a dangerous lie.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=207915

    " Israeli kids signing gifts to lebanon kids" (second post by Eva7). This, This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    It seems that some people would see it as their responsibility to teach their childern who the enemy is, which would be THEM. (Please, take notice that "THEM" does not refer to a specific group of people, but rather more like the Pink Floyd song. Jesus. Calm the fuck down). It's fucking ridiculous. Oh my god. What the fuck.!?!

    They don't need to. Hizbullah is shooting rockets over our houses, I think its a big hint they are not our friends... It's like the Lebanese kids would assume the IDF is their enemy, because we are shooting over their houses. It's a natuarl thing, no one needs to teach it, and I don't think there's a point in explaining *very young kids* what is really going on - they won't understand it anyway, little kids usually see the world in black or white till they are getting older.
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    Commy wrote:
    For that to happen Israel and the United States to to recognize the palestinian people's right to exist and cease all hostile actions towards them.

    This is a good example to what's El_Kabong's demagogy can cause. You see I've never said we have no mistakes, nor justified our actions. In fact, I wrote many many times I think both sides are to blame, and that I think our reaction in Lebanon was unmeasured. But why bother to actually check the things I *wrote*, when someone else has already "delivered them"?

    So people read his demagogic stuff and assume I'm a one sided person who can not acknowledge her own country's mistakes, and maybe all of Israeli and Jewish people are the same. Not only this is not fair, but also dangerous. Demagogy leads to more hate, and more hate leads to radical actions like the one in Seattle.

    Stop doing it!
  • shiraz wrote:
    They don't need to. Hizbullah is shooting rockets over our houses, I think its a big hint they are not our friends... It's like the Lebanese kids would assume the IDF is their enemy, because we are shooting over their houses. It's a natuarl thing, no one needs to teach it, and I don't think there's a point in explaining *very young kids* what is really going on - they won't understand it anyway, little kids usually see the world in black or white till they are getting older.


    So, both sides start off already hating each other because both sides are firing rockets at each other. So will these kids know nothing of peace and everything of hate and revenge?
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    So, both sides start off already hating each other because both sides are firing rockets at each other. So will these kids know nothing of peace and everything of hate and revenge?

    No.These kids know too much about peace, hate and revange than you ever will (=lucky you, I mean it), but they are not mature enough to understand the whole picture, nor to come up with their own point of view and mind about what's going on. My 8 years old nephew only knows missiles can kill him, and he is crying everytime the alarm goes on cause he is afraid to die. He doesn't understand why the hell this whole shit is happening, only Nasralla is a bad scary man who wants to kill everyone.
  • shiraz wrote:
    No.These kids know too much about peace, hate and revange than you ever will (=lucky you, I mean it), but they are not mature enough to understand the whole picture, nor to come up with their own point of view and mind about what's going on. My 8 years old nephew only knows missiles can kill him, and he is crying everytime the alarm goes on cause he is afraid to die. He doesn't understand why the hell this whole shit is happening, only Nasralla is a bad scary man who wants to kill everyone.


    Man, that's completely insane that these kids have to go through shit like that. On both sides of the line.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Quite frankly, I think this is normal behavior for children who grow up in war zones, and I see no reason to condemn it.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    Quite frankly, I think this is normal behavior for children who grow up in war zones, and I see no reason to condemn it.

    Yep ... I think some people's outrage here stems from the fact that they did not grow up in said war zone.
    At least, some of the outrage. Some of it is also just another component of the "war of words and pictures" that some on here wage on Israel.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    shiraz wrote:
    This is a good example to what's El_Kabong's demagogy can cause.

    ummmmm whaaaaa? must you feel every comment in this thread is personally directed at you??

    i don't understand the arguement...you say you agree this is wrong for kids to be doing. the difference is you want to label these as single, one time events never to occur again. you claim no one here knows hebrew so we don't know what they said, all the rockets were signed to hezbollah...then i show you an israeli newspaper that states some of the messages didn't mention hezbollah...

    if you aggree this is wrong then why are you arguing if it is ok or not what they wrote? if it's wrong it's wrong! if palestinian or lebanese kids were signing some rockets 'fuck you sharon!' or the new pm or something similiar would you care and think 'oh, well at least they don't mean for those rockets to hit me!'

    then you say the incident w/ the letters was an isolated incident...but what you fail to address is if it's so random and isolated how did so many do it at the same time? it wasn't one or two letters.

    you also didn't address the videos of israeli children taunting and throwing rocks at arabs w/ the idf just standing there...the kids running up and punching and kicking hte arabs w/ the idf just standing there...and those videos were in occupied territories...land that does NOT belong to israel...land the UN told israel to leave...

    i never once said 'all israeli children are evil' and no one is going to read that into my statements unless that's what they already want to see. you are trying to brush these incidents aside as rare and isolated and while i'm not saying i think every israeli child is like this the more you justify and rationalize the actions and ignore them the farther it will spread.

    at some point you have to deal w/ the mistakes instead of excusing them by things like 'well that was a 1 time, isolated event!' 'well, they live in a border town and had a lot of rockets hitting them' 'well, it was only addressed to hezbollah" even tho we know some of the messages made no mention of them) you're saying on one hand you think it is wrong, but then saying nothing needs to be done about it b/c it was an isolated event.

    and plz stop w/ the demonizing talk, you know that is not the case. if anyone is following that plan it's you, you mis stated a few things i said and made them seem far worse than they actually were
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    shiraz wrote:
    No.These kids know too much about peace, hate and revange than you ever will (=lucky you, I mean it), but they are not mature enough to understand the whole picture, nor to come up with their own point of view and mind about what's going on. My 8 years old nephew only knows missiles can kill him, and he is crying everytime the alarm goes on cause he is afraid to die. He doesn't understand why the hell this whole shit is happening, only Nasralla is a bad scary man who wants to kill everyone.

    and these feelings are exploited by groups like hamas and hezbollah on one side and the likud and those crazy priests israel has (the ones that call for a 'final solution' and 'cleansing') on the other. they exploit these fears and feelings.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    El_Kabong wrote:
    and these feelings are exploited by groups like hamas and hezbollah on one side and the likud and those crazy priests israel has (the ones that call for a 'final solution' and 'cleansing') on the other. they exploit these fears and feelings.

    And you and other people here used these kids for a nothing but a horrible demagogy. Leave those kids alone, end of story.
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    shiraz wrote:
    And you and other people here used these kids for a nothing but a horrible demagogy. Leave those kids alone, end of story.

    so i guess they're not dead for real? is it what you mean? i just can't get that...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    El_Kabong wrote:
    ummmmm whaaaaa? must you feel every comment in this thread is personally directed at you??

    i don't understand the arguement...you say you agree this is wrong for kids to be doing. the difference is you want to label these as single, one time events never to occur again. you claim no one here knows hebrew so we don't know what they said, all the rockets were signed to hezbollah...then i show you an israeli newspaper that states some of the messages didn't mention hezbollah...

    if you aggree this is wrong then why are you arguing if it is ok or not what they wrote? if it's wrong it's wrong! if palestinian or lebanese kids were signing some rockets 'fuck you sharon!' or the new pm or something similiar would you care and think 'oh, well at least they don't mean for those rockets to hit me!'

    then you say the incident w/ the letters was an isolated incident...but what you fail to address is if it's so random and isolated how did so many do it at the same time? it wasn't one or two letters.

    you also didn't address the videos of israeli children taunting and throwing rocks at arabs w/ the idf just standing there...the kids running up and punching and kicking hte arabs w/ the idf just standing there...and those videos were in occupied territories...land that does NOT belong to israel...land the UN told israel to leave...

    i never once said 'all israeli children are evil' and no one is going to read that into my statements unless that's what they already want to see. you are trying to brush these incidents aside as rare and isolated and while i'm not saying i think every israeli child is like this the more you justify and rationalize the actions and ignore them the farther it will spread.

    at some point you have to deal w/ the mistakes instead of excusing them by things like 'well that was a 1 time, isolated event!' 'well, they live in a border town and had a lot of rockets hitting them' 'well, it was only addressed to hezbollah" even tho we know some of the messages made no mention of them) you're saying on one hand you think it is wrong, but then saying nothing needs to be done about it b/c it was an isolated event.

    and plz stop w/ the demonizing talk, you know that is not the case. if anyone is following that plan it's you, you mis stated a few things i said and made them seem far worse than they actually were

    Stop playing the innocent guy.
    El_Kabong wrote:
    to just say the arabs are the ones taught to hate and constantly rationalize the other side of it will get nowhere in terms of peace.
    shiraz wrote:
    I NEVER EVER SAID THIS, which proves yet once again you are a VREY demagogic person who reads what he wants to read, not what I ACTUALLY wrote
    .

    This was a replay to my post, hence, those words were adressed to me.
    and I'm saying (again, and again, and again) - Leave those kids alone, stop using them for demagogic things or connecting them to other kids who once (4 years ago) wrote "Please kill all the arabs". All you talked about in the original thread (opened by Eva7) is about the evil actions of Israel, using these pictures as an example under demagogic titles like like "Israeli kids signing gifts for the Lebanese kids". That is wrong & dangerous, period.
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    so i guess they're not dead for real? is it what you mean? i just can't get that...

    what in the world are you talking about?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    shiraz wrote:
    Stop playing the innocent guy.
    .

    This was a replay to my post, hence, those words were adressed to me.
    and I'm saying (again, and again, and again) - Leave those kids alone, stop using them for demagogic things or connecting them to other kids who once (4 years ago) wrote "Please kill all the arabs". All you talked about in the original thread (opened by Eva7) is about the evil actions of Israel, using these pictures as an example under demagogic titles like like "Israeli kids signing gifts for the Lebanese kids". That is wrong & dangerous, period.

    Shiraz, please stop demagoogling your demagogy to the point of damagoglified demagogy, coz it's making me demagooglybumptious!
  • shiraz wrote:
    Stop playing the innocent guy.



    .

    This was a replay to my post, hence, those words were adressed to me.
    and I'm saying (again, and again, and again) - Leave those kids alone, stop using them for demagogic things or connecting them to other kids who once (4 years ago) wrote "Please kill all the arabs". All you talked about in the original thread (opened by Eva7) is about the evil actions of Israel, using these pictures as an example under demagogic titles like like "Israeli kids signing gifts for the Lebanese kids". That is wrong & dangerous, period.

    The reason for posting these things is to show you and others that the contempt you feel is the same contempt the Arabs feel. The actions your people and their people take part in is the equivilant of a mirror image. You think they teach their children to hate...they think the same of you. You think they don't want you to exist...they think the same of you. If you hate these actions why do you continue to justify your own people engaging in the exact same thing???????
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • shirazshiraz Posts: 528
    The reason for posting these things is to show you and others that the contempt you feel is the same contempt the Arabs feel. The actions your people and their people take part in is the equivilant of a mirror image. You think they teach their children to hate...they think the same of you. You think they don't want you to exist...they think the same of you. If you hate these actions why do you continue to justify your own people engaging in the exact same thing???????

    Is there anyone who REALLY reads my posts? Have I ever written I think "they (=arabs) teach their children to hate" etc'? Did you even bothered to read what's this thread is all about?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    shiraz wrote:
    Is there anyone who REALLY reads my posts? Have I ever written I think "they (=arabs) teach their children to hate" etc'? Did you even bothered to read what's this thread is all about?

    I have read numerous posts on here which have talked of how Palestinians teach their children to hate the Israelis. Abookamongstthemany is right in saying that there is no moral equivalency on here. The Israelis speak of 'terrorism' and neglect to see that their own military are also engaged in terrorist activities. The main atrocity in the middle east continues to be the occupation.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I have read numerous posts on here which have talked of how Palestinians teach their children to hate the Israelis. Abookamongstthemany is right in saying that there is no moral equivalency on here. The Israelis speak of 'terrorism' and neglect to see that their own military are also engaged in terrorist activities. The main atrocity in the middle east continues to be the occupation.

    Just smile and nod, everyone ... Smile and nod.
  • Just smile and nod, everyone ... Smile and nod.

    or post your opinion of the post you quoted.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    Byrnzie wrote:
    The main atrocity in the middle east continues to be the occupation.

    Occupation, shmoccupation.
  • jsand wrote:
    Occupation, shmoccupation.

    How enlightening.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    or post your opinion of the post you quoted.

    The post made no sense to me ... How can you argue that teaching Israeli children to hate has "no moral equivalency" to teaching Palestinian kids to hate? Or did I misunderstand? In both cases, you are setting the stage for more adults to go to war, to kill civilians, you are basically propagating a violent conflict that already seems to have no end in sight. People who are rabidly pro-Palestinian completely overlook the role that these people play in fanning the flames. If Palestinian kids grow up hating Isreal, what will happen decades from now? Even if Isreal and the U.S. were to do a complete about-face in terms of foreign policy, you'd STILL have people who were indoctrinated to hate an enemy. The violence would continue, because these kids would know no differently. Again, how this is defensible behavior, assuming that ending the Israel-Palestine conflict is a good thing?
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