this is further proof that peace will neve ever reign in that part of the world they will never ever stop hating eachother ,jews vs arabs this region will bring this world into another major war imo.........
Would it make the western left happy if the palestinians managed to kill more Israelis and 'even the score'? How would that help the situation?
of course not, i'm just saying israel and it's supporters need to stop playing the victim card all the damn time when they are killing far more ppl, including children.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Why does Israel have to withdrawl to those old borders???
By 1967 Israel had already been attacked 2 times in the past 20 years by their Arab neighbors - neighbors who still called for the destruction of their country.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.
In the aftermath, Israel had to take on Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Algeria. That's 7 against 1, and at the war's end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.
So the Arab side lost. In the process they lost some of their land. So how far back in time do you want to go redrawing the map of the world? This has happened from the begining of time! The Palestinians need to get over it if they want to reconcile. You can't start a war and then call foul when your side loses!
ummm...how can you start a war when the other side attacks pre-emptively?????
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.....
You can't start a war and then call foul when your side loses!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Well said. Of course Palestine will take more casualties since they are the weaker side. They put children on the front lines so of course more Palestinian children will die (it is Palestine's intention).
the front lines of what???? picking strawberries??
Seven children aged between 10 and 17 were killed and five others seriously wounded in an Israeli air strike as they were picking strawberries in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya on 4 January.
the front lines of standing around where a car happened to drive by???
On 27 October, Karam Mohammed Abu Naji, 14, Salah Said Abu Naji, 15, and Rami Riyad Assaf, 17, were killed when the Israeli army launched an air strike on a car travelling near the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. As well as the three child bystanders, all four people in the car were killed. Nineteen other bystanders, including seven children, were injured. Two members of a Palestinian armed group were believed to be the intended target.
the front lines of their farm????
In March and April, Israeli settlers spread toxic chemicals in fields around Palestinian villages in the southern Hebron Hills and near Salfit. The chemicals were spread in areas where Palestinian farmers graze their sheep, effectively depriving them of their livelihood. The farmers were forced to quarantine their flocks and stop using the milk, cheese and meat during the productive season.
it seems these israeli soldiers and international peace activists and human rights workers were also placed 'on the front lines', eh?
On 16 October some 75 acres of olive groves belonging to Palestinian villagers near Salem in the northern West Bank were burned by Israeli settlers. Much of the villagers’ land was cut off from the village by a settlers’ road leading to the nearby Elon Moreh settlement. For years, Israeli settlers from Elon Moreh had prevented Palestinian villagers from accessing their land under threat of attacks. Israeli settlers also attacked Israeli and international peace activists and human rights defenders who sought to document their attacks on Palestinians.
On 26 September settlers from the Havat Ma’on settlement outpost assaulted Israeli peace activists and a film crew. Ra’anan Alexanderovitch was severely beaten and injured by a settler armed with an M16 assault rifle, and some of the crew’s equipment was stolen by the attackers.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Israeli soldiers continued to use Palestinians as “human shields” during military operations, forcing them to carry out tasks that endangered their lives, despite an injunction by the Israeli High Court banning the practice. A petition against the use of “human shields” submitted by Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations to the Supreme Court in May 2002 was still pending at the end of 2004.
In April, Israeli soldiers used 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan as a “human shield” during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Biddu. The soldiers placed the boy on the hood of their jeep and tied him to the front windscreen to discourage Palestinian demonstrators from throwing stones in their direction.
if the palestinians cared so little about their kids that israel would use them as shields...what would be the purpose of israel doing it? seems like the fact that israel uses palestinians as uman shields should prove they care about their kids
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
of course not, i'm just saying israel and it's supporters need to stop playing the victim card all the damn time when they are killing far more ppl, including children.
where is your outrage for the palastines using children as shields ?
Israeli soldiers continued to use Palestinians as “human shields” during military operations, forcing them to carry out tasks that endangered their lives, despite an injunction by the Israeli High Court banning the practice. A petition against the use of “human shields” submitted by Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations to the Supreme Court in May 2002 was still pending at the end of 2004.
In April, Israeli soldiers used 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan as a “human shield” during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Biddu. The soldiers placed the boy on the hood of their jeep and tied him to the front windscreen to discourage Palestinian demonstrators from throwing stones in their direction.
if the palestinians cared so little about their kids that israel would use them as shields...what would be the purpose of israel doing it? seems like the fact that israel uses palestinians as uman shields should prove they care about their kids
where is your outrage for the palastines using children as shields ?
i haven't seen any stories stating this, you are more than welcome to post some articles
if they do it then it is of course horrible.....now, where's your outrage at israel's indiscriminate killing (8:!)??
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
what does this exactly show??? it canbe interpreted as several things...it looks like a guy dragging a kid off to the side, by a wall where other ppl were standing...where's the human shield part ( mean other than the caption saying that's what it is)??
"There has been an overwhelming agreement among Palestinian factions to carry out a public-awareness campaign to prevent those children under 16 years old from taking part in these demonstrations." According to Abed Rabbo, the children are not knowingly being used as cannon fodder, but rather take part in the protests as a genuine expression of pain and grievance'
both sides are wrong. you seem to only blame Israel
you would be wrong, i've stated several times the violence on the palestinian side is unacceptable and should stop....do you say that about israel?
and lastly this is an israeli source, out of curiousity...would you accept a palestinian publication saying israel was using human shields or would you ignore it or claim it wasn't a valid source?
oh, and that was written 7 years ago, do you have anything more current? the item i gave to you about israel using human shields was only 1 1/2-2 years old
20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun
now, you only seem to blame palestine....
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so is it my understanding that some of you are saying all or a majority of the palestinian children are killed b/c they are 'put on the front lines'? or what? i'm not getting how so many children can be killed. 50 last year, 150 the year before that....you're saying these kids are mostly being killed on the front lines?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Why does Israel have to withdrawl to those old borders???
By 1967 Israel had already been attacked 2 times in the past 20 years by their Arab neighbors - neighbors who still called for the destruction of their country.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.
You've twisted history to suit your needs.
You're saying that during this time Israel was completely silent and non-aggressive?
Events Prior To War
Golan Heights Water
Israel Wanted The Golan Water Supply
April 5 Israel claimed that Syria is shelling Israeli farms.
April 7 Israel attacks a Syrian airfield, knocking out six jets.
April 15 Syria turns to Egypt, the Mid-East's De Facto leader, for protection.
May 1 Nasser signs mutual defense treaty with Syria.
May 22 Nasser closes the Strait of Tiran to Israel.
June 5 Israel attacks at dawn.
Why does Israel have to withdrawl to those old borders???
By 1967 Israel had already been attacked 2 times in the past 20 years by their Arab neighbors - neighbors who still called for the destruction of their country.
In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.
The 1967 War and the
Israeli Occupation of the
West Bank and Gaza
Did the Egyptians actually start the 1967 war, as Israel originally claimed?
"The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was 'no threat of destruction' but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could 'exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.'...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: 'In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Was the 1967 war defenisve?
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'" The New York Times, May 11, 1997
The history of Israeli expansionism
"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." David Ben-Gurion, in 1936, quoted in Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Expansionism - continued
"The main danger which Israel, as a 'Jewish state', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion's idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state." Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years."
Expansionism - continued
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach, "Israel's Sacred Terrorism."
But wasn't the occupation of Arab lands necessary to protect Israel's security?
"Senator [J.William Fulbright] proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel's security in a formal treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union - then a supplier of arms and political aid to the Arabs - into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside Israel.
"The plan drew favorable editorial support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by Israel. 'The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,' writes [his biographer Randall] Woods. 'The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.'" Allan Brownfield in "Issues of the American Council for Judaism." Fall 1997.[Ed.-This was one of many such proposals]
What happened after the 1967 war ended?
"In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel's military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces." Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation," ed. Lockman and Beinin.
World opinion on the legality of Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza.
"Under the UN Charter there can lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in self-defense. The response of other states to Israel's occupation shows a virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel's action was defensive, its retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not...The [UN] General Assembly characterized Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self determination and hence a 'serious and increasing threat to international peace and security.' " John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
Examples of the effects of Israeli occupation
"A study of students at Bethlehem University reported by the Coordinating Committee of International NGOs in Jerusalem showed that many families frequently go five days a week without running water...The study goes further to report that, 'water quotas restrict usage by Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, while Israeli settlers have almost unlimited amounts.'
"A summer trip to a Jewish settlement on the edge of the Judean desert less than five miles from Bethlehem confirmed this water inequity for us. While Bethlehemites were buying water from tank trucks at highly inflated rates, the lawns were green in the settlement. Sprinklers were going at mid day in the hot August sunshine. Sounds of children swimming in the outdoor pool added to the unreality." Betty Jane Bailey, in "The Link", December 1996.
Israeli occupation - continued
"You have to remember that 90 percent of children two years old or more have experienced - some many, many times - the [Israeli] army breaking into the home, beating relatives, destroying things. Many were beaten themselves, had bones broken, were shot, tear gassed, or had these things happen to siblings and neighbors...The emotional aspect of the child is affected by the [lack of] security. He needs to feel safe. We see the consequences later if he does not. In our research, we have found that children who are exposed to trauma tend to be more extreme in their behaviors and, later, in their political beliefs." Dr Samir Quota, director of research for the Gaza Community Mental Health Programme, quoted in "The Journal of Palestine Studies," Summer 1996, p.84
Israeli occupation - continued
"There is nothing quite like the misery one feels listening to a 35-year-old [Palestinian] man who worked fifteen years as an illegal day laborer in Israel in order to save up money to build a house for his family only to be shocked one day upon returning from work to find that the house and all that was in it had been flattened by an Israeli bulldozer. When I asked why this was done - the land, after all, was his - I was told that a paper given to him the next day by an Israeli soldier stated that he had built the structure without a license. Where else in the world are people required to have a license (always denied them) to build on their own property? Jews can build, but never Palestinians. This is apartheid." Edward Said, in "The Nation", May 4, 1998.
All Jewish settlements in territories occupied in the 1967 war are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, which Israel has signed.
"The Geneva Convention requires an occupying power to change the existing order as little as possible during its tenure. One aspect of this obligation is that it must leave the territory to the people it finds there. It may not bring its own people to populate the territory. This prohibition is found in the convention's Article 49, which states, 'The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.'" John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
Excerpts from the U.S. State Department's reports during the Intifada
"Following are some excerpts from the U.S. State Department's Country Reports on Human Rights Practices from 1988 to 1991:
1988: 'Many avoidable deaths and injuries' were caused because Israeli soldiers frequently used gunfire in situations that did not present mortal danger to troops...IDF troops used clubs to break limbs and beat Palestinians who were not directly involved in disturbances or resisting arrest..At least thirteen Palestinians have been reported to have died from beatings...'
1989: Human rights groups charged that the plainclothes security personnel acted as death squads who killed Palestinian activists without warning, after they had surrendered, or after they had been subdued...
1991: [The report] added that the human rights groups had published 'detailed credible reports of torture, abuse and mistreatment of Palestinian detainees in prisons and detention centers." Former Congressman Paul Findley, "Deliberate Deceptions."
Jerusalem - Eternal, Indivisible Capital of Israel?
"Writing in The Jerusalem Report (Feb. 28, 2000), Leslie Susser points out that the current boundaries were drawn after the Six-Day War. Responsibility for drawing those lines fell to Central Command Chief Rehavan Ze'evi. The line he drew 'took in not only the five square kilometers of Arab East Jerusalem - but also 65 square kilometers of surrounding open country and villages, most of which never had any municipal link to Jerusalem. Overnight they became part of Israel's eternal and indivisible capital.'" Allan Brownfield in The Washington Report On Middle East Affairs, May 2000.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I know someone that has been in Afghanistan and says that what the terrorists are now doing is strapping bombs to children then detonating them in public places from hundreds of yards away to try to kill Allied forces.
yet, I never hear about these poor children on this site...
i don't, either
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Were the Jews suicide bombing Nazis? No. So take your anti-semitism somewhere else. Comparing the Jews to Nazis. You don't know anything.
The Warsaw uprising saw thousands of Poles throwing themselves at the Nazis with no hope of victory. They were mostly all killed. The fact that they didn't have explosives strapped to their bodies - although maybe some did, I don't know - doesn't make much difference. When people are driven into a desperate situation then they take desperate measures.
As for your claim that I'm anti-semitic for criticizing the occupation; that argument is weak and pathetic. And I didn't compare the Jews to Nazis, I merely provided a comparative precedent.
28 September: A group of Israeli settlers sprayed an unidentified toxic material on a Palestinian man near Ramin village, Tulkarm. He was admitted to hospital with critical injuries.
• 28 September: IAF F16 fighter jets fired missiles at the main entrance of Beit Hanoun town, the Gaza Strip, causing severe damage to the road. The air strike caused an electricity cut across a large part of the northern area of the Gaza Strip.
• 28 September: An IAF helicopter fired a rocket towards a building in the Al Tuffah neighborhood of Gaza City, the Gaza Strip. The strike destroyed an electrical transformer and cut electricity to the area.
24 September to date: Palestinian fishing boats have not been prevented from fishing along the Gaza Strip coastline
• 28 September: 406 Palestinian owners of olive groves from Ya'bad town, Jenin, who applied for permits to enter their land during the olive harvest were rejected by the Israeli DCL. The land they own is located west of the Barrier.
• 1 October: IDF soldiers took clothes and ID card from a Palestinian farmer from Kafr al Labad, Tulkarm, and forced him to leave his land. The farmer was picking olives from his land near Avnei Khefets settlement.
2 October: Three Palestinians were killed, including a Major in the police, and 43 were injured in armed clashes between Hamas members and the PA police forces in Gaza City, the Gaza Strip.
**w/ this and the lebanese army fighting al qaeda how can ppl cast doubt and what the ppl actually want and when will they stop attributing the actions of some militians to everyone?**
During the week beginning 4 July the Israeli army demolished some 35 stone and metal structures/shacks in the village of Tana, near Nablus, in the northern West Bank. Fourteen of the structures were home to the villagers and the rest were used to store fodder or shelter sheep and goats, which provide the main source of livelihood for the village. A school, which had been built in 2001 and had served the village’s children since then, was also demolished, along with two water reservoirs. The army took advantage of the absence of the villagers, who live a semi-nomadic life and spend the hottest months of July and August in nearby Beit Furik, to destroy much of their habitat. The reason given for the destruction was that the structures had been built without a permit.
no permit???? from ppl violating the un and building illegal settlements on land that is not theirs? are they serious???
seems like bullying tactics
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Some of the spies were from Israel, while others were recruited from the local Jewish population. Israel responded to the scandal with claims in the media that there was no spy ring, that it was all a hoax perpetrated by "anti-Semites". But as the public trial progressed, it was evident that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing. Eventually, Israeli's Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon was brought down by the scandal, although it appears that he was himself the victim of a frame-up by the real authors of the bombing project, code named "Operation Susannah."
Well, what can you expect from a guy who's name is Pinhas?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
"If the Arab Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.
There would also be no Palestine (which is already done, there's just "occupied territories" now), Iraq (already done for the most part), no Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or almost any arab nation except the ones that pretty much side with the US on everything like Saudi Arabia even when the US would go into a neighboring country and completely annihilate them.
honestly, that's got to be the most biased statement I've ever seen. Did Iraq start the war with US with their weapons? no. US did. with theirs.
some of you guys act like palestine has nothing to fight for, when some super powers decided to just place a bunch of people in their own lands. and then you go ahead and condemn them for hating big super powers like the US which give money to Israel that they use to kill their civilians.
sure, you can say i'm biased, but it doesn't mean i also support the killing of Israeli civilians. still, nothing israel has done can be justified. from the intifadas to the war with lebanon last year. almost everything they've done has resorted to violence and destruction in the nation. and now they are going completely against the UN (then again, what else is new) and building the wall in palestine.
some of you may call palestine a "yapping dog" and you want someone to "finish the job and kill it" but that's just completely arrogant to say. that's like finding a dying man on the street and instead of calling an ambulance, you take a knife and "finish the job." my similarity is much more realistic seeing as how palestinians ARE people and are NOT dogs.
really, some of you need to work on your morals and ethics because yuo have none.
really, some of you need to work on your morals and ethics because yuo have none.
Who needs them when you have a flag, a cosy room to watch tv, and the sort of bloodlust and superiority complex that demands a bigger guys shoulder to peer over.
the way i see it if the scary muslims did take over the world these people would be first in the queue to kiss the Qur'an and "talk severely" about the nasty jews and christians.
of course not, i'm just saying israel and it's supporters need to stop playing the victim card all the damn time when they are killing far more ppl, including children.
Well put, i can't believe some of the ignorance i have seen from people on this site.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
both sides are wrong. you seem to only blame Israel
You say that jlew but you take great plesure in pointing out palastians are using children.
America gives isreal all the money they want for war. Have you ever thought why palastinian people blow themselves up, they don't have another highly rich country supporting there army.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
You say that jlew but you take great plesure in pointing out palastians are using children.
America gives isreal all the money they want for war. Have you ever thought why palastinian people blow themselves up, they don't have another highly rich country supporting there army.
have you seen that bbc report on palestinian child prisoners?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
It saddens me that people support this barbaric behaviour and think it perfectly acceptable.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
"god is for idiots and a reasonable justification for stealing someones land , obviously"
i think its funny - im not a religious person - but i do know that the flipside of this is that you could say that land is god-given and it is not an individuals right to claim it as their own ....maybe many people dont understand why israel was created where it was!
anyway its an interesting board, time will help, this is not an unusual dispute given the circumstances - name one other place or time in history when a country has been created and those who lived there before just ceded the loss of (what they both see as) their home...
It saddens me that people support this barbaric behaviour and think it perfectly acceptable.
i have a link to the video somewhere, i'll see if i can find it later
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
of course not, i'm just saying israel and it's supporters need to stop playing the victim card all the damn time when they are killing far more ppl, including children.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ummm...how can you start a war when the other side attacks pre-emptively?????
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
????
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the front lines of what???? picking strawberries??
Seven children aged between 10 and 17 were killed and five others seriously wounded in an Israeli air strike as they were picking strawberries in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya on 4 January.
the front lines of standing around where a car happened to drive by???
On 27 October, Karam Mohammed Abu Naji, 14, Salah Said Abu Naji, 15, and Rami Riyad Assaf, 17, were killed when the Israeli army launched an air strike on a car travelling near the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. As well as the three child bystanders, all four people in the car were killed. Nineteen other bystanders, including seven children, were injured. Two members of a Palestinian armed group were believed to be the intended target.
the front lines of their farm????
In March and April, Israeli settlers spread toxic chemicals in fields around Palestinian villages in the southern Hebron Hills and near Salfit. The chemicals were spread in areas where Palestinian farmers graze their sheep, effectively depriving them of their livelihood. The farmers were forced to quarantine their flocks and stop using the milk, cheese and meat during the productive season.
it seems these israeli soldiers and international peace activists and human rights workers were also placed 'on the front lines', eh?
On 16 October some 75 acres of olive groves belonging to Palestinian villagers near Salem in the northern West Bank were burned by Israeli settlers. Much of the villagers’ land was cut off from the village by a settlers’ road leading to the nearby Elon Moreh settlement. For years, Israeli settlers from Elon Moreh had prevented Palestinian villagers from accessing their land under threat of attacks. Israeli settlers also attacked Israeli and international peace activists and human rights defenders who sought to document their attacks on Palestinians.
On 26 September settlers from the Havat Ma’on settlement outpost assaulted Israeli peace activists and a film crew. Ra’anan Alexanderovitch was severely beaten and injured by a settler armed with an M16 assault rifle, and some of the crew’s equipment was stolen by the attackers.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so this is how you think the children are dying?? by being used as human shields??
can you plz post some links about this?
ya know, kinda like this one;
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng
‘Human shields’
Israeli soldiers continued to use Palestinians as “human shields” during military operations, forcing them to carry out tasks that endangered their lives, despite an injunction by the Israeli High Court banning the practice. A petition against the use of “human shields” submitted by Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations to the Supreme Court in May 2002 was still pending at the end of 2004.
In April, Israeli soldiers used 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan as a “human shield” during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Biddu. The soldiers placed the boy on the hood of their jeep and tied him to the front windscreen to discourage Palestinian demonstrators from throwing stones in their direction.
if the palestinians cared so little about their kids that israel would use them as shields...what would be the purpose of israel doing it? seems like the fact that israel uses palestinians as uman shields should prove they care about their kids
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
where is your outrage for the palastines using children as shields ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMrug3DJZGQ
http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Arab_Violence/shield.shtml
both sides are wrong. you seem to only blame Israel
i haven't seen any stories stating this, you are more than welcome to post some articles
if they do it then it is of course horrible.....now, where's your outrage at israel's indiscriminate killing (8:!)??
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so how are they civilians?
Bring it on cause I'm no victim
b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
what does this exactly show??? it canbe interpreted as several things...it looks like a guy dragging a kid off to the side, by a wall where other ppl were standing...where's the human shield part ( mean other than the caption saying that's what it is)??
"There has been an overwhelming agreement among Palestinian factions to carry out a public-awareness campaign to prevent those children under 16 years old from taking part in these demonstrations." According to Abed Rabbo, the children are not knowingly being used as cannon fodder, but rather take part in the protests as a genuine expression of pain and grievance'
you would be wrong, i've stated several times the violence on the palestinian side is unacceptable and should stop....do you say that about israel?
and lastly this is an israeli source, out of curiousity...would you accept a palestinian publication saying israel was using human shields or would you ignore it or claim it wasn't a valid source?
oh, and that was written 7 years ago, do you have anything more current? the item i gave to you about israel using human shields was only 1 1/2-2 years old
this isn't even a year old...
http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp
20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun
now, you only seem to blame palestine....
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You've twisted history to suit your needs.
You're saying that during this time Israel was completely silent and non-aggressive?
Events Prior To War
Golan Heights Water
Israel Wanted The Golan Water Supply
April 5 Israel claimed that Syria is shelling Israeli farms.
April 7 Israel attacks a Syrian airfield, knocking out six jets.
April 15 Syria turns to Egypt, the Mid-East's De Facto leader, for protection.
May 1 Nasser signs mutual defense treaty with Syria.
May 22 Nasser closes the Strait of Tiran to Israel.
June 5 Israel attacks at dawn.
http://www.cactus48.com/1967war.html
The 1967 War and the
Israeli Occupation of the
West Bank and Gaza
Did the Egyptians actually start the 1967 war, as Israel originally claimed?
"The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was 'no threat of destruction' but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could 'exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.'...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: 'In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Was the 1967 war defenisve?
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'" The New York Times, May 11, 1997
The history of Israeli expansionism
"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." David Ben-Gurion, in 1936, quoted in Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Expansionism - continued
"The main danger which Israel, as a 'Jewish state', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion's idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state." Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years."
Expansionism - continued
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach, "Israel's Sacred Terrorism."
But wasn't the occupation of Arab lands necessary to protect Israel's security?
"Senator [J.William Fulbright] proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel's security in a formal treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union - then a supplier of arms and political aid to the Arabs - into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside Israel.
"The plan drew favorable editorial support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by Israel. 'The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,' writes [his biographer Randall] Woods. 'The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.'" Allan Brownfield in "Issues of the American Council for Judaism." Fall 1997.[Ed.-This was one of many such proposals]
What happened after the 1967 war ended?
"In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel's military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces." Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation," ed. Lockman and Beinin.
World opinion on the legality of Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza.
"Under the UN Charter there can lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in self-defense. The response of other states to Israel's occupation shows a virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel's action was defensive, its retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not...The [UN] General Assembly characterized Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self determination and hence a 'serious and increasing threat to international peace and security.' " John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
Examples of the effects of Israeli occupation
"A study of students at Bethlehem University reported by the Coordinating Committee of International NGOs in Jerusalem showed that many families frequently go five days a week without running water...The study goes further to report that, 'water quotas restrict usage by Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, while Israeli settlers have almost unlimited amounts.'
"A summer trip to a Jewish settlement on the edge of the Judean desert less than five miles from Bethlehem confirmed this water inequity for us. While Bethlehemites were buying water from tank trucks at highly inflated rates, the lawns were green in the settlement. Sprinklers were going at mid day in the hot August sunshine. Sounds of children swimming in the outdoor pool added to the unreality." Betty Jane Bailey, in "The Link", December 1996.
Israeli occupation - continued
"You have to remember that 90 percent of children two years old or more have experienced - some many, many times - the [Israeli] army breaking into the home, beating relatives, destroying things. Many were beaten themselves, had bones broken, were shot, tear gassed, or had these things happen to siblings and neighbors...The emotional aspect of the child is affected by the [lack of] security. He needs to feel safe. We see the consequences later if he does not. In our research, we have found that children who are exposed to trauma tend to be more extreme in their behaviors and, later, in their political beliefs." Dr Samir Quota, director of research for the Gaza Community Mental Health Programme, quoted in "The Journal of Palestine Studies," Summer 1996, p.84
Israeli occupation - continued
"There is nothing quite like the misery one feels listening to a 35-year-old [Palestinian] man who worked fifteen years as an illegal day laborer in Israel in order to save up money to build a house for his family only to be shocked one day upon returning from work to find that the house and all that was in it had been flattened by an Israeli bulldozer. When I asked why this was done - the land, after all, was his - I was told that a paper given to him the next day by an Israeli soldier stated that he had built the structure without a license. Where else in the world are people required to have a license (always denied them) to build on their own property? Jews can build, but never Palestinians. This is apartheid." Edward Said, in "The Nation", May 4, 1998.
All Jewish settlements in territories occupied in the 1967 war are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, which Israel has signed.
"The Geneva Convention requires an occupying power to change the existing order as little as possible during its tenure. One aspect of this obligation is that it must leave the territory to the people it finds there. It may not bring its own people to populate the territory. This prohibition is found in the convention's Article 49, which states, 'The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.'" John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."
Excerpts from the U.S. State Department's reports during the Intifada
"Following are some excerpts from the U.S. State Department's Country Reports on Human Rights Practices from 1988 to 1991:
1988: 'Many avoidable deaths and injuries' were caused because Israeli soldiers frequently used gunfire in situations that did not present mortal danger to troops...IDF troops used clubs to break limbs and beat Palestinians who were not directly involved in disturbances or resisting arrest..At least thirteen Palestinians have been reported to have died from beatings...'
1989: Human rights groups charged that the plainclothes security personnel acted as death squads who killed Palestinian activists without warning, after they had surrendered, or after they had been subdued...
1991: [The report] added that the human rights groups had published 'detailed credible reports of torture, abuse and mistreatment of Palestinian detainees in prisons and detention centers." Former Congressman Paul Findley, "Deliberate Deceptions."
Jerusalem - Eternal, Indivisible Capital of Israel?
"Writing in The Jerusalem Report (Feb. 28, 2000), Leslie Susser points out that the current boundaries were drawn after the Six-Day War. Responsibility for drawing those lines fell to Central Command Chief Rehavan Ze'evi. The line he drew 'took in not only the five square kilometers of Arab East Jerusalem - but also 65 square kilometers of surrounding open country and villages, most of which never had any municipal link to Jerusalem. Overnight they became part of Israel's eternal and indivisible capital.'" Allan Brownfield in The Washington Report On Middle East Affairs, May 2000.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/june06minors.JPG
-C Addison
i don't, either
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The Warsaw uprising saw thousands of Poles throwing themselves at the Nazis with no hope of victory. They were mostly all killed. The fact that they didn't have explosives strapped to their bodies - although maybe some did, I don't know - doesn't make much difference. When people are driven into a desperate situation then they take desperate measures.
As for your claim that I'm anti-semitic for criticizing the occupation; that argument is weak and pathetic. And I didn't compare the Jews to Nazis, I merely provided a comparative precedent.
you know less
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing
btw , the fucks that bombed this hotel..."the terrorist"...became the leaders of the terrorist/racist/theocratic state of israel
and don't make me defend the religious muslim savages either.... i am a liberal... i hate all you religious fucks
god is for idiots
Bring it on cause I'm no victim
b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
or these
froma un site
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/85255db800470aa485255d8b004e349a/7fc452eeb07052c68525709300520ef4!OpenDocument
28 September: A group of Israeli settlers sprayed an unidentified toxic material on a Palestinian man near Ramin village, Tulkarm. He was admitted to hospital with critical injuries.
• 28 September: IAF F16 fighter jets fired missiles at the main entrance of Beit Hanoun town, the Gaza Strip, causing severe damage to the road. The air strike caused an electricity cut across a large part of the northern area of the Gaza Strip.
• 28 September: An IAF helicopter fired a rocket towards a building in the Al Tuffah neighborhood of Gaza City, the Gaza Strip. The strike destroyed an electrical transformer and cut electricity to the area.
24 September to date: Palestinian fishing boats have not been prevented from fishing along the Gaza Strip coastline
• 28 September: 406 Palestinian owners of olive groves from Ya'bad town, Jenin, who applied for permits to enter their land during the olive harvest were rejected by the Israeli DCL. The land they own is located west of the Barrier.
• 1 October: IDF soldiers took clothes and ID card from a Palestinian farmer from Kafr al Labad, Tulkarm, and forced him to leave his land. The farmer was picking olives from his land near Avnei Khefets settlement.
2 October: Three Palestinians were killed, including a Major in the police, and 43 were injured in armed clashes between Hamas members and the PA police forces in Gaza City, the Gaza Strip.
**w/ this and the lebanese army fighting al qaeda how can ppl cast doubt and what the ppl actually want and when will they stop attributing the actions of some militians to everyone?**
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/isr-summary-eng
During the week beginning 4 July the Israeli army demolished some 35 stone and metal structures/shacks in the village of Tana, near Nablus, in the northern West Bank. Fourteen of the structures were home to the villagers and the rest were used to store fodder or shelter sheep and goats, which provide the main source of livelihood for the village. A school, which had been built in 2001 and had served the village’s children since then, was also demolished, along with two water reservoirs. The army took advantage of the absence of the villagers, who live a semi-nomadic life and spend the hottest months of July and August in nearby Beit Furik, to destroy much of their habitat. The reason given for the destruction was that the structures had been built without a permit.
no permit???? from ppl violating the un and building illegal settlements on land that is not theirs? are they serious???
seems like bullying tactics
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lavon.html
Or Israel bombing the US ship USS Liberty?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
----
Israel, so innocent.
Some of the spies were from Israel, while others were recruited from the local Jewish population. Israel responded to the scandal with claims in the media that there was no spy ring, that it was all a hoax perpetrated by "anti-Semites". But as the public trial progressed, it was evident that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing. Eventually, Israeli's Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon was brought down by the scandal, although it appears that he was himself the victim of a frame-up by the real authors of the bombing project, code named "Operation Susannah."
Well, what can you expect from a guy who's name is Pinhas?
-C Addison
There would also be no Palestine (which is already done, there's just "occupied territories" now), Iraq (already done for the most part), no Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or almost any arab nation except the ones that pretty much side with the US on everything like Saudi Arabia even when the US would go into a neighboring country and completely annihilate them.
honestly, that's got to be the most biased statement I've ever seen. Did Iraq start the war with US with their weapons? no. US did. with theirs.
some of you guys act like palestine has nothing to fight for, when some super powers decided to just place a bunch of people in their own lands. and then you go ahead and condemn them for hating big super powers like the US which give money to Israel that they use to kill their civilians.
sure, you can say i'm biased, but it doesn't mean i also support the killing of Israeli civilians. still, nothing israel has done can be justified. from the intifadas to the war with lebanon last year. almost everything they've done has resorted to violence and destruction in the nation. and now they are going completely against the UN (then again, what else is new) and building the wall in palestine.
some of you may call palestine a "yapping dog" and you want someone to "finish the job and kill it" but that's just completely arrogant to say. that's like finding a dying man on the street and instead of calling an ambulance, you take a knife and "finish the job." my similarity is much more realistic seeing as how palestinians ARE people and are NOT dogs.
really, some of you need to work on your morals and ethics because yuo have none.
Who needs them when you have a flag, a cosy room to watch tv, and the sort of bloodlust and superiority complex that demands a bigger guys shoulder to peer over.
the way i see it if the scary muslims did take over the world these people would be first in the queue to kiss the Qur'an and "talk severely" about the nasty jews and christians.
Well put, i can't believe some of the ignorance i have seen from people on this site.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
You say that jlew but you take great plesure in pointing out palastians are using children.
America gives isreal all the money they want for war. Have you ever thought why palastinian people blow themselves up, they don't have another highly rich country supporting there army.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
have you seen that bbc report on palestinian child prisoners?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Can't find the bbc one but this a pretty sad story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1005456,00.html
It saddens me that people support this barbaric behaviour and think it perfectly acceptable.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
i think its funny - im not a religious person - but i do know that the flipside of this is that you could say that land is god-given and it is not an individuals right to claim it as their own ....maybe many people dont understand why israel was created where it was!
anyway its an interesting board, time will help, this is not an unusual dispute given the circumstances - name one other place or time in history when a country has been created and those who lived there before just ceded the loss of (what they both see as) their home...
i have a link to the video somewhere, i'll see if i can find it later
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way