8 palestinians for every 1 israeli

El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/isr-summary-eng

Killings and attacks by the army

Some 190 Palestinians, including around 50 children, were killed by the Israeli army in the Occupied Territories. Many were killed unlawfully, in deliberate and reckless shootings, shelling and air strikes in densely populated residential areas, or as a result of excessive use of force. Some were extrajudicially executed and others died in armed clashes with Israeli soldiers. Hundreds of others were injured.

Killings and attacks by Palestinian armed groups

Palestinian armed groups killed 41 Israeli civilians, including six children, in suicide bombings, shootings and mortar attacks in Israel and the Occupied Territories. Most of the attacks were carried out by al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an offshoot of Fatah, and Islamic Jihad. Nine Israeli soldiers were also killed by Palestinian armed groups, most of them in the Occupied Territories.

that's a 8.33333333:1 ratio for palestinian kids to israeli kids....

at least it's down from 2005

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng

The Israeli army killed around 700 Palestinians, including some 150 children, in the Occupied Territories, most of them unlawfully. Many were killed in deliberate as well as reckless shooting, shelling and bombardment of densely populated residential areas or as a result of excessive use of force. Some 120 Palestinians were killed in extrajudicial executions, including more than 30 bystanders, of whom four were children. Others were killed in armed clashes with Israeli soldiers. Thousands of others were injured.

Palestinian armed groups killed 109 Israelis — 67 of them civilians and including eight children — in suicide bombings, shootings and mortar attacks.



even w/ the ratio dropping, how can ppl justify killing so many children? it seems like the only condemnation comes to the palestinians, yet they are having far more children killed!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    El_Kabong wrote:
    http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/isr-summary-eng

    Killings and attacks by the army

    Some 190 Palestinians, including around 50 children, were killed by the Israeli army in the Occupied Territories. Many were killed unlawfully, in deliberate and reckless shootings, shelling and air strikes in densely populated residential areas, or as a result of excessive use of force. Some were extrajudicially executed and others died in armed clashes with Israeli soldiers. Hundreds of others were injured.

    so there's away to kill people lawfully?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • so there's away to kill people lawfully?

    exactly
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    I watched this last night here on the ABC and was completely dumbfounded to discover that people where actually advocating supporting Israel because of the "Rapture" and that as the End Times are coming and as this somehow involves protecting Israel, that Americans, a significant number so it would seem, actually support Israel in their quest to annihilate the Palestinians.


    http://thecia.com.au/reviews/g/god-on-my-side.shtml

    I don't understund much about this conflict, well not in a blow by blow historical sense, but to me any country using it's might and power to indiscriminantly kill children, any children, needs to take a long hard look at itself.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    Jeanie wrote:
    I watched this last night here on the ABC and was completely dumbfounded to discover that people where actually advocating supporting Israel because of the "Rapture" and that as the End Times are coming and as this somehow involves protecting Israel, that Americans, a significant number so it would seem, actually support Israel in their quest to annihilate the Palestinians.

    http://thecia.com.au/reviews/g/god-on-my-side.shtml

    I don't understund much about this conflict, well not in a blow by blow historical sense, but to me any country using it's might and power to indiscriminantly kill children, any children, needs to take a long hard look at itself.

    That's a massive oversimplification. As questionable as many of their actions are, Israel can hardly be said by any reasonable person to be on a 'quest to annihilate the Palestinians'. It irritates me that people seem to feel the need to side with their 'team' on this issue. ie if you slant to the left you must support the palestinians and condemn Israel as an evil supressive regime by default, and if you slant to the right the palestinians are by default a bunch of no-good islamic terrorists that Israel has every right to repel from its borders by any means they see fit. Its silly and unconstructive, and I think many people see the whole story as some kind of soap opera or sporting match that they can watch from the comfort of their lounge chairs in the west. The closest this conflict has come to any kind of resolution in recent times is when a western leader (Clinton) took a middle of the road approach and attempted to encourage negotiation between both sides. Picking sides just perpetuates it and doesn't help anyone. Neither does comparing body counts. Would it make the western left happy if the palestinians managed to kill more Israelis and 'even the score'? How would that help the situation?

    Speaking of media bias and censorship, in contrast to the yank media, the media in Australia seem to tend to be a little more biased towards the palestinian/arab side, especially on SBS. Maybe its got to do with the relative sizes of our Jewish and Muslim populations, I don't know.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Whilst we're on the subject, I've received these pm's, from brianjd aka Last Exodus, aka The Face, over the past few weeks..

    brianjd wrote:
    what with your terminal israel obesession with israel?. talk about beating a dead horse. find a new subject obsesso-dude
    brianjd wrote:
    I see you managed to get another thread on the Middle East closed with your xenophobia. Nice work.

    Seems like those on this message board incapable of reasoned debate are now resorting to personal attacks in pm's instead.

    Feel free to comment on the above statements.
  • PearlerPearler Posts: 191
    Palestine is like a little yapping dog, Isreal is like a big fuckoff crocodile.

    The little yapper keeps tormenting, and tormenting, then once in a while the big fuckoff crocodile goes CHOMP.

    Then the little dog crys victim. Someone needs to finish the job and run over the little yapping dog.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Scubascott wrote:
    It irritates me that people seem to feel the need to side with their 'team' on this issue. ie if you slant to the left you must support the palestinians and condemn Israel as an evil supressive regime by default, and if you slant to the right the palestinians are by default a bunch of no-good islamic terrorists that Israel has every right to repel from its borders by any means they see fit.

    What borders? You mean the borders of the illegally occupied territories? This is what it all comes down to after all. It's not about siding with a team, it's about looking the situation squarely, and impartially in the face. Until Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders they have no right to talk about security, or self-defense. It's as simple as that.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Pearler wrote:
    Palestine is like a little yapping dog, Isreal is like a big fuckoff crocodile.

    The little yapper keeps tormenting, and tormenting, then once in a while the big fuckoff crocodile goes CHOMP.

    Then the little dog crys victim. Someone needs to finish the job and run over the little yapping dog.

    That's a really intelligent analysis of the situation. Thank God there are people like you in the world.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Pearler wrote:
    Palestine is like a little yapping dog, Isreal is like a big fuckoff crocodile.

    The little yapper keeps tormenting, and tormenting, then once in a while the big fuckoff crocodile goes CHOMP.

    Then the little dog crys victim. Someone needs to finish the job and run over the little yapping dog.

    You know, the Nazis thought this way about Jewish partisan groups and the French resistance in World war 2. Some things never change.
  • . .
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    god is for idiots
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    Byrnzie wrote:
    What borders? You mean the borders of the illegally occupied territories? This is what it all comes down to after all. It's not about siding with a team, it's about looking the situation squarely, and impartially in the face. Until Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders they have no right to talk about security, or self-defense. It's as simple as that.

    Its not as simple as that and you know it. Of course they have a right to talk about security when suicide bombers target civilians in Tel Aviv and Haifa and other coastal towns, which are no where near the 1967 borders, or any other border. They don't have any right to continue to expand settlements into the occupied territories though.

    I'm not trying to pretend to be an expert on the situtation or to have the answer, nor do I take a position that supports either side over the other, but I can see that its ridiculous to oversimplify the issue like that.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Scubascott wrote:
    Its not as simple as that and you know it. Of course they have a right to talk about security when suicide bombers target civilians in Tel Aviv and Haifa and other coastal towns, which are no where near the 1967 borders, or any other border. They don't have any right to continue to expand settlements into the occupied territories though.

    I'm not trying to pretend to be an expert on the situtation or to have the answer, nor do I take a position that supports either side over the other, but I can see that its ridiculous to oversimplify the issue like that.

    it depends on how much you understand the situation ... sometimes the complexities are manufactured for the simple purpose of keeping everyone out of the loop ...
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    B nice wrote:
    god is for idiots

    There are a lot of them.
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Scubascott wrote:
    That's a massive oversimplification. As questionable as many of their actions are, Israel can hardly be said by any reasonable person to be on a 'quest to annihilate the Palestinians'. It irritates me that people seem to feel the need to side with their 'team' on this issue. ie if you slant to the left you must support the Palestinians and condemn Israel as an evil suppressive regime by default, and if you slant to the right the Palestinians are by default a bunch of no-good Islamic terrorists that Israel has every right to repel from its borders by any means they see fit. Its silly and nonconstructive, and I think many people see the whole story as some kind of soap opera or sporting match that they can watch from the comfort of their lounge chairs in the west. The closest this conflict has come to any kind of resolution in recent times is when a western leader (Clinton) took a middle of the road approach and attempted to encourage negotiation between both sides. Picking sides just perpetuates it and doesn't help anyone. Neither does comparing body counts. Would it make the western left happy if the Palestinians managed to kill more Israelis and 'even the score'? How would that help the situation?

    Speaking of media bias and censorship, in contrast to the yank media, the media in Australia seem to tend to be a little more biased towards the Palestinian/Arab side, especially on SBS. Maybe its got to do with the relative sizes of our Jewish and Muslim populations, I don't know.

    Scott there's absolutely no point getting antsy with me over this.
    I've already said that I don't understand much about it. But I do see that Israel was formed in the desert after World War 2 for somewhere for the Jews to have a homeland. Unfortunately that didn't please the Arabs. Now who knows who is right or wrong, and frankly who cares? It's history, it's the past. These people need to stop doing what they are doing. All of them. They need to start making plans for a peaceful future. My concern, and my comment was based purely on what I saw on Denton last night. And that is that many god fearing religious Americans are supporting Israel purely because they believe in this "rapture" business and that the end times are coming. I simply cannot see that as a justification for indiscriminate bombing of civilians. Not that I condone the terrorist actions of Palestinian extremists either.
    I'm not siding with anyone. No wait!! Actually if I think about it I am. I'm siding with the innocent. Those people that aren't bombing the "other side", those people in either country that aren't allowing their hatred and their need for revenge to overtake their basic humanity. This whole eye for an eye shit, is too futile for words. And I cannot support the slaughter of innocent men, women and children. No matter where they come from. An oversimplification, possibly. Or maybe simple is the best way to go. You don't want anymore violence? Then don't perpertrate it. Simple.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    Byrnzie wrote:
    What borders? You mean the borders of the illegally occupied territories? This is what it all comes down to after all. It's not about siding with a team, it's about looking the situation squarely, and impartially in the face. Until Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders they have no right to talk about security, or self-defense. It's as simple as that.

    Why does Israel have to withdrawl to those old borders???

    By 1967 Israel had already been attacked 2 times in the past 20 years by their Arab neighbors - neighbors who still called for the destruction of their country.

    In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.

    In the aftermath, Israel had to take on Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Algeria. That's 7 against 1, and at the war's end, Israel had gained control of eastern Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.

    So the Arab side lost. In the process they lost some of their land. So how far back in time do you want to go redrawing the map of the world? This has happened from the begining of time! The Palestinians need to get over it if they want to reconcile. You can't start a war and then call foul when your side loses!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    NCfan wrote:
    You can't start a war and then call foul when your side loses!

    exactly
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,051
    Pearler wrote:
    Palestine is like a little yapping dog, Isreal is like a big fuckoff crocodile.

    The little yapper keeps tormenting, and tormenting, then once in a while the big fuckoff crocodile goes CHOMP.

    Then the little dog crys victim. Someone needs to finish the job and run over the little yapping dog.

    Well said. Of course Palestine will take more casualties since they are the weaker side. They put children on the front lines so of course more Palestinian children will die (it is Palestine's intention).
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,051
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You know, the Nazis thought this way about Jewish partisan groups and the French resistance in World war 2. Some things never change.

    Were the Jews suicide bombing Nazis? No. So take your anti-semitism somewhere else. Comparing the Jews to Nazis. You don't know anything.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    well ... this explains a lot ... may no one here have to live a day as a palestinian in the occupied territories ...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Well said. Of course Palestine will take more casualties since they are the weaker side. They put children on the front lines so of course more Palestinian children will die (it is Palestine's intention).


    of course it is. they use women and children as shields. this is nothing new in their war tactics.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    NCfan wrote:
    So in June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.
    You can't start a war and then call foul when your side loses!
    :)

    On a more serious tone, I think that the key word in Byrnzie's post is illegal, as the occupation of the territories are illegal under UN resolutions. Now, it's always possible to claim that the UN should just shut up for once but that would just end the debate. And what the hell, let's just say that the UN represents order and justice in the world, and that the security council is something that has helped, not always efficiently, to prevent huge conflicts. If you want that UN to work you have to obey it's laws.
    Well said. Of course Palestine will take more casualties since they are the weaker side. They put children on the front lines so of course more Palestinian children will die (it is Palestine's intention).
    Far from me the idea of putting words into your mouth but are you actually saying that Palestinians generally like chaos, war and death along with killing children? Kind of like communists? If it's the case it's a stupid way of thinking, always assume that the other side wants dignity, peace and food (not necessarily in that order) and you'll have a start to stopping this mess.
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    "children as shields" ...shit

    where are the leaders of palestinian groups supposed to live?
    their capital ?
    Their statehouse?
    Their military bases?

    they got nothin'
    they live in apartments
    so they are accused of "using human shields" when the IDF drops american made 5k lb. bombs on civilians

    good for you and your god


    god is for idiots and a reasonable justification for stealing someones land , obviously
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    "If the Arab Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel."
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    NCfan wrote:
    "If the Arab Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel."


    f

    i really can't argue with that one
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
    Kann wrote:
    :)

    On a more serious tone, I think that the key word in Byrnzie's post is illegal, as the occupation of the territories are illegal under UN resolutions. Now, it's always possible to claim that the UN should just shut up for once but that would just end the debate. And what the hell, let's just say that the UN represents order and justice in the world, and that the security council is something that has helped, not always efficiently, to prevent huge conflicts. If you want that UN to work you have to obey it's laws.


    Far from me the idea of putting words into your mouth but are you actually saying that Palestinians generally like chaos, war and death along with killing children? Kind of like communists? If it's the case it's a stupid way of thinking, always assume that the other side wants dignity, peace and food (not necessarily in that order) and you'll have a start to stopping this mess.

    I'm not bashing the UN. I think overall it is a good organization. But in this particular instance you have to look a little closer. In the summer of 1967 there was a United Nations Emergency Force on the Sinai Peninsula to prevent a military conflict from breaking out again between Egypt and Isreal. Egypt kicked them out in June, and publicly called for unified Arab action against Israel. So I wouldn't be so quick to call Isreal's actions "illegal", just because the UN says so.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    NCfan wrote:
    I'm not bashing the UN. I think overall it is a good organization. But in this particular instance you have to look a little closer. In the summer of 1967 there was a United Nations Emergency Force on the Sinai Peninsula to prevent a military conflict from breaking out again between Egypt and Isreal. Egypt kicked them out in June, and publicly called for unified Arab action against Israel. So I wouldn't be so quick to call Isreal's actions "illegal", just because the UN says so.

    The UN is not an independant entity living in another world. It's policies and laws are dictated by our countries, the resolutions which are voted can always be vetoed by countries of the security council (which includes the usa). So basically, it's not only the UN that said so but a whole lot more countries.
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 25,749
    NCfan wrote:
    "If the Arab Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel."
    isnt that the truth....

    i give you "THE SPEEDY GOLD STAR"
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    NCfan wrote:
    "If the Arab Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel."

    violence comes in many forms ... this statement can't be any further than the truth ... and makes a mockery of the suffering that has occured in that region ...
  • Drew263Drew263 Birmingham, AL Posts: 602
    I know someone that has been in Afghanistan and says that what the terrorists are now doing is strapping bombs to children then detonating them in public places from hundreds of yards away to try to kill Allied forces.


    yet, I never hear about these poor children on this site...
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