those poor israeli victims...

Cree Nations

This is a tough situation, I am not anti-Jew and I am certainly not anti-Palestine. I know that Hamas does not represent all of Palestine and that if I was a Palestininian I would be sick and tired of being pushed around by Israel. The flip side? If I was an Israeli I would be sick and tired of having innocent people being blown up by Suicide Bombers...I dont think Israel was right in pulling out a full scale war against Palestine for them kidnapping two of their soldiers...that was complete bullshit.
War and tyranny suck.

beetle

Cree Nations wrote:

...I dont think Israel was right in pulling out a full scale war against Palestine for them kidnapping two of their soldiers...that was complete bullshit.
War and tyranny suck.

hammas in gaza kidnapped 1 israeli soldier
hezbollah crossed into israel to kidnap 2 israeli soldiers and kill 8

wolfamongwolves

Cree Nations wrote:

This is a tough situation, I am not anti-Jew and I am certainly not anti-Palestine. I know that Hamas does not represent all of Palestine and that if I was a Palestininian I would be sick and tired of being pushed around by Israel. The flip side? If I was an Israeli I would be sick and tired of having innocent people being blown up by Suicide Bombers...

Couldn't agree more...

Cree Nations wrote:

I dont think Israel was right in pulling out a full scale war against Palestine for them kidnapping two of their soldiers...that was complete bullshit.

Particularly when, what we haven't heard too much about, was that it was in response to the kidnapping by Israel of two Palestinian civilians, a far more serious crime than abducting military personnel and a potential war crime....

Cree Nations wrote:

War and tyranny suck.

Yes they do...

beetle

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Couldn't agree more... Particularly when, what we haven't heard too much about, was that it was in response to he kidnapping by Israel of two Palestinian civilians, a far more serious crime than abducting military personnel and a potential war crime....

where did you hear that?

Ahnimus

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Oops. Be careful about saying al-Jazeera confirmed it - you'll just have people jumping in and dismissing it out of hand then, saying "they're just terrorist sympathisers and evildoers and whatnot, and you can't trust what they say." just like that nifty little swipe at "Chomkyism" earlier. I love how, by making a snide, but entirely vacuous, reference to something they don't agree with, some people can feel like thy've just undermined your whole argument - missing the point that those sources they dismiss so readily by kneejerk reaction, are generally far, far, far more qualified to make and defend their point, than they themselves are. And just so as not to appear biased, those people exist on both sides of the divide. I think Michael Moore's as much an expert at snide dismissal as those who just think "chomsky's bad, mmmkay?", "al-jazeera's bad, mmmkay?"

Why am I talking about this? Hmmm... random rant. Sorry. thanks for the corroboration, Ahnimus.

Yea, sorry. I don't think al-jazeera is bias. Michael Moore, he is just soaking up the profits from his movies, I doubt the guy actually cares about anything else. Noam Chomsky seems like a bright fellow, but I tend to look at documents and news more than listen to people talk about them.

SundaySilence

beetle wrote:

where did you hear that?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6B054073-6646-4BCD-9269-7439EE6005B9.htm

The Lebanese group said on Wednesday that it had captured the pair to secure the release of detainees held in Israeli prisons.

beetle

SundaySilence wrote:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6B054073-6646-4BCD-9269-7439EE6005B9.htm

The Lebanese group said on Wednesday that it had captured the pair to secure the release of detainees held in Israeli prisons.

yes and i responded to someone who said israel kidnapped two civililians, the article never once states israel kidnapped anyone, just that hezbollah instigated the attack in order to perform a prisoner swap, well sucks for them it backfired in their face, israel doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

Abookamongstthemany

beetle wrote:

israel doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

they're too busy being them.

beetle

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

they're too busy being them.

thats comical, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion

Heatherj43

shiraz wrote:

Your headline is disgusting, demagogic and most of all - pointless. What did you try to say, that our lifes worth less than otheres because of Israel's actions? That we deserve to die? What's with all of this contempt & disrespect?!? We are also burying people today!

That may be so, but there are no where near as many Isareli deaths. I feel for the loss of your citizens too...however these attack by Isael on Lebanon were suppose to only be for the Hezbollah troops that are on the border, yet the bombs are hitting all over the country and they were also only suppose to be to Hezbollah, yet it is the citizens geting killed.
Lebanon is weak right now while trying to become democratic. Israel bombing them is like a 13 yr old kid beating the hell out of a 5 year old.
It is shamful and I think you know this deep down inside.

SundaySilence

beetle wrote:

just that hezbollah instigated the attack in order to perform a prisoner swap, well sucks for them it backfired in their face, israel doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

Israel and Hezbollah have echanged prisoners three times in the last 10 years.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4986.shtml

Ahnimus

Heatherj43 wrote:

That may be so, but there are no where near as many Isareli deaths. I feel for the loss of your citizens too...however these attack by Isael on Lebanon were suppose to only be for the Hezbollah troops that are on the border, yet the bombs are hitting all over the country and they were also only suppose to be to Hezbollah, yet it is the citizens geting killed.
Lebanon is weak right now while trying to become democratic. Israel bombing them is like a 13 yr old kid beating the hell out of a 5 year old.
It is shamful and I think you know this deep down inside.

Yea, at the rate of 200 Civilians to 26 Lebonese Military to 1 Hezbollah. The entire country should be dead by the time Israel takes out Hezbollah.

beetle

Heatherj43 wrote:

Israel bombing them is like a 13 yr old kid beating the hell out of a 5 year old.
It is shamful and I think you know this deep down inside.

if that 5yr old had the ability to throw 125 rocks (125 rockets fired into israel today) that 5yr old deserves a spanking..

beetle

SundaySilence wrote:

Israel and Hezbollah have echanged prisoners three times in the last 10 years.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4986.shtml

i stand corrected you're right, mayeb israel wised up and saw what happens when they took teh high road and did indeed negotiate and attempt to bring peace

Ahnimus

beetle wrote:

if that 5yr old had the ability to throw 125 rocks (125 rockets fired into israel today) that 5yr old deserves a spanking..

The iran-y is that Hezbollah can fire 125 rockets into Israel from southern Lebanon and Israel bombs Tripoli in retaliation. Could they not figure out where those 125 rockets are being launched from and attack that target?

beetle

Ahnimus wrote:

The iran-y is that Hezbollah can fire 125 rockets into Israel from southern Lebanon and Israel bombs Tripoli in retaliation. Could they not figure out where those 125 rockets are being launched from and attack that target?

maybe the 5yr old needs a spanking and that kids guardians need an ass kicking for allowing their kid to act in such a way

SundaySilence

beetle wrote:

i stand corrected you're right, mayeb israel wised up and saw what happens when they took teh high road and did indeed negotiate and attempt to bring peace

Israel has a history of keeping hostages exclusively for use as bargining chips, endorsed by the Supreme Court of Israel.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150241998?open&of=ENG-ISR

Finally, the holding of hostages. At least 21 Lebanese are held as hostages for the return of or information about Israelis missing in action. These individuals have been held for up to 12 years without trial or after expiry of their sentences under administrative detention orders which are automatically renewed. Two of the detainees are even denied access to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). Now the Supreme Court of Israel has endorsed this practice. In a ruling made in November last year but only made public on 4 March 1998 the Supreme Court stated that it was legitimate to hold these detainees as "bargaining chips" which could be exchanged in pursuit of a "vital interest of state". In addition, there are more than 150 other Lebanese nationals detained without legal status for up to 12 years in Khiam Detention Centre, in the area of Lebanon occupied by Israel, who may also be held as "bargaining chips". Since September 1997 they too have been denied access to the ICRC and family members.

When an armed group holds hostages it is universally condemned. The Israeli Government has acknowledged that the detainees mentioned in the Supreme Court ruling pose no threat to state security. Their continued detention therefore has no basis in international law.

Ahnimus

beetle wrote:

maybe the 5yr old needs a spanking and that kids guardians need an ass kicking for allowing their kid to act in such a way

That kind of thinking doesn't fly with me. Besides, analogies are nice for reinforcing one specific point, but in the broad picture they don't apply. Lebanon is not the mother of Hezbollah, if anything it's Syria and Iran, as that is where they receive their funding. From talking to Lebonese people, they don't like Hezbollah and blame them for these events. On the other hand, they acknowledge the wrongs of Israel and their inability as civilians to stand-up against Israel or the Hezbollah.

The anology doesn't work, also because the people getting the ass kicking are civilians, not military and not government. So it is more like if the 5 year old kid throws a rock, run up to the nearest person you can find and kick him in the face.

Heatherj43

beetle wrote:

if that 5yr old had the ability to throw 125 rocks (125 rockets fired into israel today) that 5yr old deserves a spanking..

The 5 yr old threw the 125 rocks at someone who was pummeling them with 400 boulders.
And they only threw the rocks AFTER they were pummeled.
Israel is wrong in this and because US is suppposedly such a huge ally of Israel, our government and it seems too many people won't admit this is wrong.
Sometimes I wonder if we are scared of Israel, or our politicians are afraid to lose the Jewish vote here in the states. Screw that!!!
I wish the muslim community would help Lebanon. They made an honest attempt to become a democracy...and no one, including other democracies helped them.

I don't care how anyone spins this, I know right from wrong and to attack the whole country while saying they only after Hezbollah is a crock of shit...and Israel needs to be told by Bush to knock it off.

Again..Israel was attacking them first...Hezbollah only attempted to defend. And I hate how they, and anyone who doesn't fit Bush's mold falls under the category of terrorists, which is geting old. Lebanon's army is weak at this point and that country needs some force to defend them. Thank Allah for Hezbollah!!!

beetle

Heatherj43 wrote:

Thank Allah for Hezbollah!!!

on that note, i head back onto the porch and discuss pearl jam..or try to, because i am speachless..