those poor israeli victims...

cincybearcat

El_Kabong wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVtqnubZv9k&eurl=

Funny, you see it black and white. Too bad it isn't.

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

I agree, and when we start looking at the craziness of accepting justification for killing in any way, we might come to realise we deny our own problems, which we'd rather overlook. "your killing is worse than my killing" is a ludicrous smokescreen that distracts each party from looking at their own accountability.

I believe as well that all killing is horrible, especially when it involves the innocent. But I do question what the Arabs are supposed to in the face of such force and continual occupation of more and more territory...give up their right to exist, just lay down so the can be mowed down more easily? There is no answer for them? Where do they go? What do they do? Maybe they should knock their own homes down for the Israels? It hurts me very deeply to see these people being exterminated while my country aids and supports this theft and murder. They just keep taking more....

RockinInCanada

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I believe as well that all killing is horrible, especially when it involves the innocent. But I do question what the Arabs are supposed to in the face of such force and continual occupation of more and more territory...give up their right to exist, just lay down so the can be mowed down more easily? There is no answer for them? Where do they go? What do they do? Maybe they should knock their own homes down for the Israels? It hurts me very deeply to see these people being exterminated while my country aids and supports this theft and murder. They just keep taking more....

The logic people around here dumbfounds me lately, people saying Israel was attacked and their actions were justified because their home land was under seige...I hope these people realize that logic can also be used on them....another question that comes to mind is how come these people who 100% support Israel (instead of the postition of neutrality...but who wants neutralilty it looks bad on TV....blood gets more ratings than deliberations anyhow)...get away with not even taking a minute to examine the abuses against Muslims in the area...when we all how the Muslims have acted to the Israelities....fuck you would think Israel is an innocent angel when it is not...its got jsut as much blood on their hands as does radical Islam...we only hear the one side here....

On another note I'm sick of people saying one side supports Hezbollah because they disagree with the actions of Israel. Well you know what all we hear about in western media is how bad Israel gets treated over and over again...myself for example think that western civiilizaiton needs a crash course in how Israel has done equally as many bad things...it goes BOTH ways...there is no good or bad guy in this...

Its funny cause for me I am neutral, I want an end to the bloodshed ON BOTH SIDES and something done about this....but just like any other time a certain demographic that goes against the war they are instantly labelled Liberals...once again the branding of one political thought deserves your either a leftie or a rightie...fucking sick of this game the war mongers on here preach....they need to realize us here who are here that are openly against the Israel attack also critize Hezbollah; we are simply stating there are two sides of the story here not just the one we get force fed every fucking day ......once again the pathetic attempt to catergorize anything against their fear/war mongering ways...

The people here who are against the Israel attack KNOW THERE ARE TWO SIDES OF THE STORY...now if the real blind on the board open their eyes and realize that maybe collectively something can get done about this if they simply learn to deal with the fact that both sides are just as to blame and not just one...in this battle there is no good or evil...

Im sorry for the rant, Im one person sick of the war mongering trolls (two come to mind....loved the quote "beautiful military") on this message board spewing their hate, makes me sick....Im sorry but this is a major issue and some people want to make it a "your with us or against us" bullshit game...instead of coming to grips with reality that both sides are wronged in some way or another....

rebornFixer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

The logic people around here dumbfounds me lately, people saying Israel was attacked and their actions were justified because their home land was under seige...I hope these people realize that logic can also be used on them....another question that comes to mind is how come these people who 100% support Israel (instead of the postition of neutrality...but who wants neutralilty it looks bad on TV....blood gets more ratings than deliberations anyhow)...get away with not even taking a minute to examine the abuses against Muslims in the area...when we all how the Muslims have acted to the Israelities....fuck you would think Israel is an innocent angel when it is not...its got jsut as much blood on their hands as does radical Islam...we only hear the one side here....

On another note I'm sick of people saying one side supports Hezbollah because they disagree with the actions of Israel. Well you know what all we hear about in western media is how bad Israel gets treated over and over again...myself for example think that western civiilizaiton needs a crash course in how Israel has done equally as many bad things...it goes BOTH ways...there is no good or bad guy in this...

Its funny cause for me I am neutral, I want an end to the bloodshed ON BOTH SIDES and something done about this....but just like any other time a certain demographic that goes against the war they are instantly labelled Liberals...once again the branding of one political thought deserves your either a leftie or a rightie...fucking sick of this game the war mongers on here preach....they need to realize us here who are here that are openly against the Israel attack also critize Hezbollah; we are simply stating there are two sides of the story here not just the one we get force fed every fucking day ......once again the pathetic attempt to catergorize anything against their fear/war mongering ways...

The people here who are against the Israel attack KNOW THERE ARE TWO SIDES OF THE STORY...now if the real blind on the board open their eyes and realize that maybe collectively something can get done about this if they simply learn to deal with the fact that both sides are just as to blame and not just one...in this battle there is no good or evil...

Im sorry for the rant, Im one person sick of the war mongering trolls (two come to mind....loved the quote "beautiful military") on this message board spewing their hate, makes me sick....Im sorry but this is a major issue and some people want to make it a "your with us or against us" bullshit game...instead of coming to grips with reality that both sides are wronged in some way or another....

Some people (maybe most) condemn both sides ... There are a few that keep it pretty one-sided, which in turn makes the freakjobs on the other side irate.

shiraz

I was angry about the title of the thread - " those poor israeli victims...", not about the video. Like I said, its demagogic, disgusting, disrespecting, full with contempt, and indicating that our lifes worth less than other's.

El_Kabong

shiraz wrote:

I was angry about the title of the thread - " those poor israeli victims...", not about the video. Like I said, its demagogic, disgusting, disrespecting, full with contempt, and indicating that our lifes worth less than other's.

how the hell does it imply an israeli's life is worth less???

what it was meant to portray is it's not just a simple matter of 'self-defense' by israel, that they antagonize the other side just as much.

what's funny is i've condemned BOTH sides, so far the only i can remembr seeing say anything similiar from the other side is reborn. so which side is making it seem like the others lives are worth less? israel kills 5 palestinian kids for every 1 israeli child killed...and even in this last week israel has killed at least 2 ppl for ever 1 israeli killed. not to even mention israels idea of collective punishment.

i never indicated an israeli's life is worth less than anyone else's...that is for your cohorts like illana to say (but the other way around). i wuold like if you could explain how i did this.

El_Kabong

cincybearcat wrote:

Funny, you see it black and white. Too bad it isn't.

the only thing i see black and white is how pretty much everyone on my side can admit both sides are doing wrong while the other side can't (w/ very few exceptions)

what's black and white is how the idf will swoop in and start firing over ppl's heads then shoot tear gas at them just for holding a memorial for an american that they purposely ran over w/ a bulldozer.

El_Kabong

NakedClown wrote:

- after reading the initial post by someone who spent his entire day yesterday demonizing Israelis in countless threads

i did? how did i 'demonize' them??

NakedClown wrote:

- - was that there were villians and victims on both sides - and that both sides truly have a share of the blame in this conflict. Not necessarily an equal share of the blame, but it would be naive to say that mistakes and atrocities have not been inflicted by both sides.

That is all.

hmm, sounds like a few of the posts i've made in the past few days...

El_Kabong

i wonder what these ppl did to deserve this reaction??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRse0lXv0Ww

thankyougrandma

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

The logic people around here dumbfounds me lately, people saying Israel was attacked and their actions were justified because their home land was under seige...I hope these people realize that logic can also be used on them....another question that comes to mind is how come these people who 100% support Israel (instead of the postition of neutrality...but who wants neutralilty it looks bad on TV....blood gets more ratings than deliberations anyhow)...get away with not even taking a minute to examine the abuses against Muslims in the area...when we all how the Muslims have acted to the Israelities....fuck you would think Israel is an innocent angel when it is not...its got jsut as much blood on their hands as does radical Islam...we only hear the one side here....

On another note I'm sick of people saying one side supports Hezbollah because they disagree with the actions of Israel. Well you know what all we hear about in western media is how bad Israel gets treated over and over again...myself for example think that western civiilizaiton needs a crash course in how Israel has done equally as many bad things...it goes BOTH ways...there is no good or bad guy in this...

Its funny cause for me I am neutral, I want an end to the bloodshed ON BOTH SIDES and something done about this....but just like any other time a certain demographic that goes against the war they are instantly labelled Liberals...once again the branding of one political thought deserves your either a leftie or a rightie...fucking sick of this game the war mongers on here preach....they need to realize us here who are here that are openly against the Israel attack also critize Hezbollah; we are simply stating there are two sides of the story here not just the one we get force fed every fucking day ......once again the pathetic attempt to catergorize anything against their fear/war mongering ways...

The people here who are against the Israel attack KNOW THERE ARE TWO SIDES OF THE STORY...now if the real blind on the board open their eyes and realize that maybe collectively something can get done about this if they simply learn to deal with the fact that both sides are just as to blame and not just one...in this battle there is no good or evil...

Im sorry for the rant, Im one person sick of the war mongering trolls (two come to mind....loved the quote "beautiful military") on this message board spewing their hate, makes me sick....Im sorry but this is a major issue and some people want to make it a "your with us or against us" bullshit game...instead of coming to grips with reality that both sides are wronged in some way or another....

great great post, i share your thought about this: "On another note I'm sick of people saying one side supports Hezbollah because they disagree with the actions of Israel"

I'm sick and tired of it too.

cincybearcat

El_Kabong wrote:

the only thing i see black and white is how pretty much everyone on my side can admit both sides are doing wrong while the other side can't (w/ very few exceptions)

Not sure what to say other than I think that statement is complete bullshit. You said in your own post 'on my side'. Black and white.

Abookamongstthemany

cincybearcat wrote:

Not sure what to say other than I think that statement is complete bullshit. You said in your own post 'on my side'. Black and white.

I think it is pretty obvious he meant the left seeing as how the left are usually the ones more sympathic with the Arabs and their cause.

The problem we have is the far over played reaction from Israel. We don't think hezbollah should bomb the fuck out of anyone and we don't want them to kill anyone. But we can see how the arabs have a need to defend themselves or be completely ran over. What do you think of the continual theft of these Arabs territory? Do they have the right to exist? They are the ones constantly losing ground and having homes mowed down. What kind of reaction would you expect from them? Do you even care? Are they supposed to allow themselves to be completely exterminated?

RockinInCanada

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I think it is pretty obvious he meant the left seeing as how the left are usually the ones more sympathic with the Arabs and their cause.

The problem we have is the far over played reaction from Israel. We don't think hezbollah should bomb the fuck out of anyone and we don't want them to kill anyone. But we can see how the arabs have a need to defend themselves or be completely ran over. What do you think of the continual theft of these Arabs territory? Do they have the right to exist? They are the ones constantly losing ground and having homes mowed down. What kind of reaction would you expect from them? Do you even care? Are they supposed to allow themselves to be completely exterminated?

Good post that is where my frustration lies...some on here fail to realize that people that sympathize with Arabs (not the fundamentalists) do because there story is never known....the pro-Israeli on here can only say it was justified and deserved and then they wonder to themselves why the hell these radicals keep bombing them....its frustrating....you defend someone and you get labelled when all one is doing is trying to get the view of the other group across because that story is never told...instead it is blanketed by the acts of Islam nuts where the heart break of real citizens that want to live is ignored...

I wish the obviously pro-Israel group will realize that their stories are also blanketed as well and underneath lies atrocities just as great as any radical nut supporting Allah....they will fail to admit that....and there lies the frustration for me

I choose to be neutral and believe in the intelligent road (one filled with diplomacy) than the barbaric path that will only breed a new generation of hate (on both sides)....

wolfamongwolves

ilana wrote:

that is nonesense, we dont need to demonise that arab side, they do that well enough for them selves
is there really a moral equivilant, between the arrabs who deliberatlly target inocent civillians and the israeli's who target terrorist?

Are you living in some strange alternate universe, or are you just as deluded as you sound?

Total dead and wounded in Lebanon and Israel over the past five days:

Israeli Military killed: 12
Israeli Civilians killed: 12

Lebanese Army: 34
Lebanese civilians: 203 (that's SIX ordinary people killed by Israel for every one militant)

Oh, and incidentally, just in case you think that Israel is really targetting the Hizbollah terrorists:

Number of Hizbollah militants killed by the Israeli army (for the sake of those 203 civilians): 1

so, what was that again about arabs targeting civilians, and israelis targetting terrorists?
Who's really talking nonsense?


source: The Guardian, June 18th

Abookamongstthemany

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I choose to be neutral and believe in the intelligent road (one filled with diplomacy) than the barbaric path that will only breed a new generation of hate (on both sides)....

I also agree with this approach (diplomacy) but I do not think it should include more taken livelihood from the Arabs. I believe their suffering should be told and known by everyone. We have every channel on tv for the pro Israel side. The Arab's story needs to be told as well. It doesn't, for one second, mean I support one group's murderous actions over the other.

UKDave

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Are you living in some strange alternate universe, or are you just as deluded as you sound?

Total dead and wounded in Lebanon and Israel over the past five days:

Israeli Military killed: 12
Israeli Civilians killed: 12

Lebanese Army: 34
Lebanese civilians: 203 (that's SIX ordinary people killed by Israel for every one militant)

Oh, and incidentally, just in case you think that Israel is really targetting the Hizbollah terrorists:

Number of Hizbollah militants killed by the Israeli army (for the sake of those 203 civilians): 1

so, what was that again about arabs targeting civilians, and israelis targetting terrorists?
Who's really talking nonsense?


source: The Guardian, June 18th

The Israeli's are using this to settle old scores, it's they that are escalating this, the blind defence by the US is sickening...

wolfamongwolves

UKDave wrote:

The Israeli's are using this to settle old scores, it's they that are escalating this, the blind defence by the US is sickening...

So true. This works to the favour of so many elites, and the general public can see it but can't do anything about it. Dead civilians are simply another byproduct of power struggles going on at higher levels that have nothing to do with ensuring peace or security, or even democracy, and certainly have nothing whatsoever to do with the welfare of the ordinary people who are subject to, and dependent on, those elites.

Ahnimus

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Are you living in some strange alternate universe, or are you just as deluded as you sound?

Total dead and wounded in Lebanon and Israel over the past five days:

Israeli Military killed: 12
Israeli Civilians killed: 12

Lebanese Army: 34
Lebanese civilians: 203 (that's SIX ordinary people killed by Israel for every one militant)

Oh, and incidentally, just in case you think that Israel is really targetting the Hizbollah terrorists:

Number of Hizbollah militants killed by the Israeli army (for the sake of those 203 civilians): 1

so, what was that again about arabs targeting civilians, and israelis targetting terrorists?
Who's really talking nonsense?


source: The Guardian, June 18th

This is confirmed by al-jazeera aswell. Also, "Hezbollah also announced that one of its fighters was killed in fighting with Israeli forces near the border." so, no Hezbollah have been victim of bombings. That one soldier was killed in ground combat.

kenny olav

El_Kabong wrote:

i wonder what these ppl did to deserve this reaction??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRse0lXv0Ww

outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did i miss something? how can the IDF do that?????


its a sick fucking world.

wolfamongwolves

Ahnimus wrote:

This is confirmed by al-jazeera aswell. Also, "Hezbollah also announced that one of its fighters was killed in fighting with Israeli forces near the border." so, no Hezbollah have been victim of bombings. That one soldier was killed in ground combat.

Oops. Be careful about saying al-Jazeera confirmed it - you'll just have people jumping in and dismissing it out of hand then, saying "they're just terrorist sympathisers and evildoers and whatnot, and you can't trust what they say." just like that nifty little swipe at "Chomkyism" earlier. I love how, by making a snide, but entirely vacuous, reference to something they don't agree with, some people can feel like thy've just undermined your whole argument - missing the point that those sources they dismiss so readily by kneejerk reaction, are generally far, far, far more qualified to make and defend their point, than they themselves are. And just so as not to appear biased, those people exist on both sides of the divide. I think Michael Moore's as much an expert at snide dismissal as those who just think "chomsky's bad, mmmkay?", "al-jazeera's bad, mmmkay?"

Why am I talking about this? Hmmm... random rant. Sorry. thanks for the corroboration, Ahnimus.