Obama's speech tonight 2/19 in Texas

slightofjeff

mca47 wrote:

They may not be the definition of "conservative" most far right leaning types label, but they are definitely very much right of center. The majority of them just truly do not like McCain. A couple have become so disenfranchised with the republican party they actually like the idea of something, someone different.
This is happening all over the country. People either a) hate McCain b) have grown tired of the same BS coming from the Republicans or c) Really see something in Obama that is a breath of fresh air.

That has to really piss off Republicans to see those on the right cross sides to a guy that isn't the definition of who they would have voted for 8 years ago.

If they are right of center, they really have no business voting for Obama. He would be more left-wing than any president in U.S. history. He would make McCain look like fuckin' Newt Gingrich.

And again, I don't mean this as a slight. If that's your thing, by all means, vote for Obama. But there's no way a conservative can vote for Obama and sleep at night. Doesn't make sense. He's neither a fiscal conservative nor a social conservative. How can someone vote for a candidate whose every belief is diametrically opposed to their own?

Just because he's young? Hip? Talks a good game? Holy shit, that's scary.

slightofjeff

jeffbr wrote:

I think this is going to be the rare case. The more probable case, and the way Obama is going to win, is that conservatives just stay home. They aren't motivated by McCain, and any principled conservative would never vote for Obama. So they'll sit it out. Hillary will lose against McCain because those same conservatives who will sit out the Obama race, will show and and vote for McCain as a vote against Hillary.

This is exactly right.

Nobody who actually IS conservative will vote for Obama. They will just stay home.

mca47

slightofjeff wrote:

This is exactly right.

Nobody who actually IS conservative will vote for Obama. They will just stay home.

I think that's probably right too. Those friends that I know generally vote more Republican, but I doubt any of them would call themselves "conservative"...hence my saying that they were slightly right of center. Hell, I'm left of center and I don't consider myself a liberal. I like Obama and he will be getting my vote. Had the Republicans brought some decent candidates to the table, I have no problem admitting that I'd take a look at them seriously.

ledvedderman

slightofjeff wrote:

This is kind of dumb, too. If they are the best candidate, then who gives a shit what their last name is?

The only reason your theory works this time around is that Hillary isn't the best candidate. But if Obama's father, let's call him "Jim," had been president before, that wouldn't make Barry a worse candidate, would it?

She isn't the best candidate. And outside of Bill in 1992, none of them were the best candidate. It doesn't say much for our political system when the same names keep coming up again and again.

meme

ledvedderman wrote:

Did anyone else though see the Texas State Senator on MSNBC, who is supporting Obama, fall on his face when asked to name an accomplishment in the US Senate? Holy moly! I had to change the station because it was so awful. He deserved to be drilled by Matthews. Stephanie Tubbs Jones was possibly more awful though. I cannot stand that woman.

I did, it was pretty bad. Certainly he could have handled it better. I think he should have turned the question around. Obama is practically a rookie senator, and it is unreasonable to expect towering legislative achievements from him at this point. He could have instead talked about the fact that he is rising so fast and managing so much consensus around him. It's a good lesson for us Obama supporters though. Be informed on his specific achievements. I agree that Chris Matthews did a wonderful job of grilling the guy

Honestly, I like Hillary's health care plan better, but she lost me in October 2002. She voted for the war because she was afraid of hurting her presidential chances and now that's exactly why she is going to lose the presidency. I am exstatic.

Also, I am very sorry, but a guy like Obama just should be president. He's got my trust. I am also excited about what his presidency could mean in terms of lifting Africa up.

blackredyellow

slightofjeff wrote:

This is kind of dumb, too. If they are the best candidate, then who gives a shit what their last name is?

The only reason your theory works this time around is that Hillary isn't the best candidate. But if Obama's father, let's call him "Jim," had been president before, that wouldn't make Barry a worse candidate, would it?

A first name is a little different than a last. You can't really think that a family having a direct connection to the most powerful position in our government for that long is a good thing.

jeffbr

meme wrote:

I agree that Chris Matthews did a wonderful job of grilling the guy

It was pretty funny. I was just watching it this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o

beachdweller

DOSW wrote:

Even if Obama wins the primary, it's going to be a tougher general election than you think. Fear is a powerful weapon, and McCain isn't afraid to use it. :(

I disagree, McCain is a maverick no more, he is Bush's bitch since 2001, and he was apart of the problem 2001 - 2006, so that will be way more than Hillary or Obama need. Being a war hero has nothing to do with Presidential ability, normally I would concede he would have a better sense of decision making as CIC, but he's blown that, going into Iraq to get a long term foothold on the area is exactly what the war on terrorism didn't need. Using Japan, Germany, and South Korea as examples to why the same approach will work in Iraq, is idiotic. Extreme differences between political idiology, and religious idiology. Not even in the same ballpark.

McCain's age will most likely come into play also.

blackredyellow

beachdweller wrote:

McCain's age will most likely come into play also.

I agree... and he doesn't have that charm to turn one of those quotes like Reagan used about not exploiting his Mondale's youth and inexperience.

McCain is looking OLD lately...

jeffbr

blackredyellow wrote:

I agree... and he doesn't have that charm to turn one of those quotes like Reagan used about not exploiting his Mondale's youth and inexperience.

McCain is looking OLD lately...

I tend to agree with the age thing, but if Obama's supporters are as stupid as the congressman in the Chris Matthews segment linked above, youth will certainly be an issue if nobody can point to any remarkable Obama successes in his short time in the Senate.

slightofjeff

blackredyellow wrote:

A first name is a little different than a last. You can't really think that a family having a direct connection to the most powerful position in our government for that long is a good thing.

I think each election is a separate entity. Vote for the best person, period. Not voting for someone simply because of their last name is as silly to me as not voting for someone because of the color of their skin or whether or not they have ovaries.

slightofjeff

he is Bush's bitch since 2001

Yeah, except for on every single issue apart from the war.

slightofjeff

ledvedderman wrote:

She isn't the best candidate.

pretty sure I mentioned that.

Thecure

meme wrote:

I did, it was pretty bad. Certainly he could have handled it better. I think he should have turned the question around. Obama is practically a rookie senator, and it is unreasonable to expect towering legislative achievements from him at this point. He could have instead talked about the fact that he is rising so fast and managing so much consensus around him. It's a good lesson for us Obama supporters though. Be informed on his specific achievements. I agree that Chris Matthews did a wonderful job of grilling the guy

Honestly, I like Hillary's health care plan better, but she lost me in October 2002. She voted for the war because she was afraid of hurting her presidential chances and now that's exactly why she is going to lose the presidency. I am exstatic.

Also, I am very sorry, but a guy like Obama just should be president. He's got my trust. I am also excited about what his presidency could mean in terms of lifting Africa up.

so you will elect a president because he is rising so fast. what i have noticed about both Obama and Clinton is that there really is no difference. they share alot of ideas. why don't people just tell the truth and say that they are voting for Obama not because of what he has done but that he is well liked. (i guess the same way that Bush 2 won because most people said that they would like to have a beer with him) also what exactly will electing Obama do to raise up Africa. I don't see it.

Thecure

slightofjeff wrote:

Yeah, except for on every single issue apart from the war.

Thank you for that.

cornnifer

beachdweller wrote:

I disagree, McCain is a maverick no more, he is Bush's bitch since 2001, and he was apart of the problem 2001 - 2006, so that will be way more than Hillary or Obama need. .

hillary will need a lot more than that. If nominated, she will not beat McCain.

Thecure

cornnifer wrote:

hillary will need a lot more than that. If nominated, she will not beat McCain.

although i like Obama i don't think that he is ready to be the president. i don't think obama can beat McCain. but who knows i didn't think BUsh 2 could beat Gore either.

ledvedderman

Thecure wrote:

although i like Obama i don't think that he is ready to be the president. i don't think obama can beat McCain. but who knows i didn't think BUsh 2 could beat Gore either.

Look at the numbers for Democratic primary voters compared to that of the Republican primaries. The Democrats clearly have the upper hand. Not only that, but we're putting the candidate out there who can beat John McCain, and do so without having to worry about a unified Republican party against him.

meme

Thecure wrote:

so you will elect a president because he is rising so fast. what i have noticed about both Obama and Clinton is that there really is no difference. they share alot of ideas. why don't people just tell the truth and say that they are voting for Obama not because of what he has done but that he is well liked. (i guess the same way that Bush 2 won because most people said that they would like to have a beer with him) also what exactly will electing Obama do to raise up Africa. I don't see it.

I am voting for no one since I am not a citizen. I don't trust Hillary, that's all. And I am thinking an American President who still has family in Kenya might be more sensitive to the plight of that continent than any one so far.

Thecure

ledvedderman wrote:

Look at the numbers for Democratic primary voters compared to that of the Republican primaries. The Democrats clearly have the upper hand. Not only that, but we're putting the candidate out there who can beat John McCain, and do so without having to worry about a unified Republican party against him.

i think i saw yesterday on CNN that at the present moment McCain is tied with Obama in a national race and McCain is beating Clinton by 12%.

my only concern about Obama is i wonder if he is ready to lead the country. i don't think he is but who knows.