Bush calls for a Palestinian state

trappedinmyradio

Byrnzie wrote:

Perhaps when Israel ends the illegal 35 year old military occupation of Palestinian land then the people who are being subjected to terror on a daily basis by a brutal and sophisticated army will stop feeling that their only means of fighting back is to kill themselves and others in the process.
But then, this is obviously just a one-sided, black and white issue for you, courtesy of Fox news, or the daily Telegraph - depending on where you live.
You don't recall African children blowing up Johanesburg on a regular basis? Do you know anything about the ANC's armed uprising against the apartheid regime? Or are you just spouting hot air?
In your opinion was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

i feel what you're saying...

MrBrian

Byrnzie wrote:

Perhaps when Israel ends the illegal 35 year old military occupation of Palestinian land then the people who are being subjected to terror on a daily basis by a brutal and sophisticated army will stop feeling that their only means of fighting back is to kill themselves and others in the process.
But then, this is obviously just a one-sided, black and white issue for you, courtesy of Fox news, or the daily Telegraph - depending on where you live.
You don't recall African children blowing up Johanesburg on a regular basis? Do you know anything about the ANC's armed uprising against the apartheid regime? Or are you just spouting hot air?
In your opinion was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

Yep, infact chenney even called Mandela a terrorist in the 80's.
---

Even night clubs were blown up during that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
----

thankyougrandma

I'll take a Palestinians family in my appartment if it means Quebec is a State/Country (whatever word)...

miller8966

I personally dont want them to have their own land.

ledvedderman

miller8966 wrote:

I personally dont want them to have their own land.

I personally don't want our soldiers in Iraq, is that going to change anything?

Last Exodus

El_Kabong wrote:

actually according to amnesty international something like 5 palestinian children are killed for every 1 israeli child killed...and a lot of palestinian children live w/ severe malnutrition according to other human rights groups.

oh, and
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=211301

And we all know the Euro controlled AI would never exaggerate a statistic or a fact to serve it's own purposes. These institutions you speak of are made up of human beings who are fallible and subject to bias like any other organization. AI is not god. I don't dispute the Palestinians largely live in terrible conditions. How do I know? I was just there. I went, despite all of my governments warnings not to go, and saw the West Bank myself. I went to Hebron, I went to Bethelhem. Do the Israelis live more comfortably? Absolutely. Why? Simple, an educated democratic people using its limited resources to create a burgeoning economy. If the Israelis can do it for themselves why can't the arabs? And don't feed me this American support bullshit. We did not even support Israel in the 67 War until the very end.


I also went to Egypt and to Jordan, and I can tell you that condition in those countries were just as desparate as the Palestinian. The reality is the average Arab government could give two shits about the Palestinians. They were kicked out Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt in large numbers. The Palestinians, sadly, are used by virtually every Arab and Muslim despot to serve their own purposes. Once it was Nasser, Qaddafi, Amin, Kohmeini, and now Ahmadnijad. It's all the same. The Saudis alone could provide the dough out of probably 1/4 of year's oil profits to build a Palestinian infratructure. But do they? No. Why not? They don't give a shit. That's the truth. So before you get on the Hamas bandwagon do some reading. Because they crap that gets churned out on this board is just that, crap.

So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.

Last Exodus

Byrnzie wrote:

Perhaps when Israel ends the illegal 35 year old military occupation of Palestinian land then the people who are being subjected to terror on a daily basis by a brutal and sophisticated army will stop feeling that their only means of fighting back is to kill themselves and others in the process.
But then, this is obviously just a one-sided, black and white issue for you, courtesy of Fox news, or the daily Telegraph - depending on where you live.
You don't recall African children blowing up Johanesburg on a regular basis? Do you know anything about the ANC's armed uprising against the apartheid regime? Or are you just spouting hot air?
In your opinion was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

If you care so much, why dont you Martyr your children...Sickening? Absolutely.

trappedinmyradio

miller8966 wrote:

I personally dont want them to have their own land.

why don't you want that to happen?

Abookamongstthemany

Last Exodus wrote:

So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.

Visiting somewhere or even living somewhere doesn't necessarily make you educated on what's going on, pal. There are plenty of US citizens who are clueless as all get out about their own country to prove that point.

And what makes an educated opinion to you? One that echos your already 'set in stone' mindset? Because it seems like you react to anything that goes against it as bullshit and do so quite over aggressively, I might add. No room for discussion when you're so closed minded towards any rebuttal. Even if you don't change your mind, which many of us don't often times, there's still a better way to go about getting your point across than your current method.

Last Exodus

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Visiting somewhere or even living somewhere doesn't necessarily make you educated on what's going on, pal. There are plenty of US citizens who are clueless as all get out about their own country to prove that point.

And what makes an educated opinion to you? One that echos your already 'set in stone' mindset? Because it seems like you react to anything that goes against it as bullshit and do so quite over aggressively, I might add. No room for discussion when you're so closed minded towards any rebuttal. Even if you don't change your mind, which many of us don't often times, there's still a better way to go about getting your point across than your current method.

The reality is that people on this board who don't go along with the prevailing view here are reported and banned. So what differnce does it make how I make my point? I make it so that someone out there might be spurred to dig a little deeper, because I don't see much more than self serving newspaper clippings to back up people's points rather than actual well thought out individual knowledge. It's easy just to jump on the bandwagon and attack all things Geroge Bush or pro-American whatever that might be. But to actually engage in reasoned debate requires more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.

Abookamongstthemany

Last Exodus wrote:

The reality is that people on this board who don't go along with the prevailing view here are reported and banned. So what differnce does it make how I make my point? I make it so that someone out there might be spurred to dig a little deeper, because I don't see much more than self serving newspaper clippings to back up people's points rather than actual well thought out individual knowledge. It's easy just to jump on the bandwagon and attack all things Geroge Bush or pro-American whatever that might be. But to actually engage in reasoned debate requires more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.

Reasoned debate? That's what you call your posts? Yeeeaaah. :rolleyes: The reason people like you get banned is because you continuously ignore the posting guidelines and feel the need to get hostile and personal. Let's stop pretending it's your view on things that gets you banned. There are plenty of Israel supporters who can carry on a civilized debate here.

People usually get educated by reading. Where or what is acceptable enough to pass for your 'well thought out individual knowledge'. What you read may carry a different slant but everything comes from the author's perspective. It doesn't make you more educated...sorry. And there are plent of bandwagons people jump on from both sides of the isle. If you get off your high horse for a bit you'd be able to see that.

Byrnzie

Last Exodus wrote:

If you care so much, why dont you Martyr your children...Sickening? Absolutely.

Hello. Good to have you back.

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

I personally dont want them to have their own land.

Why?

Byrnzie

Last Exodus wrote:

The reality is the average Arab government could give two shits about the Palestinians. They were kicked out Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt in large numbers. The Palestinians, sadly, are used by virtually every Arab and Muslim despot to serve their own purposes. Once it was Nasser, Qaddafi, Amin, Kohmeini, and now Ahmadnijad. It's all the same. The Saudis alone could provide the dough out of probably 1/4 of year's oil profits to build a Palestinian infratructure. But do they? No. Why not? They don't give a shit. That's the truth. So before you get on the Hamas bandwagon do some reading. Because they crap that gets churned out on this board is just that, crap.

So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.

I agree that the majority of Arab governments simply feather their own nests. The reason the Saudi government doesn't give a shit is because the west is it's biggest customer and outwardly showing support for the Palestinians, to the detriment of Israel, would jeopardise these lucrative relationships. The pro-western stance of the Saudi Government is one reason we now have Al Queda to contend with.
The reason why Hamas and Hezbollah are so popular is because the people want change, and these appear to be the only parties prepared to stand up for the populations of their respective countries. The problem the Western governments are now facing is that not all people are driven by money. In this part of the world religious beliefs tend to take precedence. Some people can't be bribed and paid off, but instead aspire to other ideals. This is where the tension in the Middle East arises and why we are now knee deep in a quagmire.

catefrances

Last Exodus wrote:

Racist. That's funny. Im done debating Bozo the Clown. You lose Canuck fuck

you lost me with this comment.

ThumbingMyWay32

Ahnimus wrote:

I tried to go clean from protesting but I'm a recidivist
my government behaving with unlimited wickedness
in the interest of peace is how a liar wages war
then clamors for more.
I wish we had elections every day
wave the ballot in the air like a sign when I say
that democracy delivered by the bomb and the gun
is terror elsewhere on the world I'm from

do you cheer for the once-and-for-all of an enemy
whose hand our man don was on in '83
but who now exemplifies all evil
that's what you get for shaking hands with people
who represent the vast and sinister interests of industry
we protect the free trade world, so don't dare try to stop us
we deliver them bullets and sell them their coffins

and I wish that I could afford the ear of Bush the second
I'd ask is it your favorite philosopher who recommended
invading and exterminating all who defy us,
crying out justice but seeking out triumphs?
wasn't your christ unbeloved of empires?
one nailed his ass to a post; he expired!
a terrorist, as roman evidence showed
put down like a retard on the death row
in texas, I guess "tough luck," right George?
ain't that how every war gets scored?
big gun wins, winner gets a free turn
enemy after enemy burns
are you listening sir? or did your mind drift
to the next country in your axis
to all the cool bombs drops you get to call
delivery fresh from the 4th reich to y'all

http://frontalot.com/media.php/76/mc_frontalot_-_special_delivery.mp3

lol You're a goofball.

Last Exodus

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Reasoned debate? That's what you call your posts? Yeeeaaah. :rolleyes: The reason people like you get banned is because you continuously ignore the posting guidelines and feel the need to get hostile and personal. Let's stop pretending it's your view on things that gets you banned. There are plenty of Israel supporters who can carry on a civilized debate here.

People usually get educated by reading. Where or what is acceptable enough to pass for your 'well thought out individual knowledge'. What you read may carry a different slant but everything comes from the author's perspective. It doesn't make you more educated...sorry. And there are plent of bandwagons people jump on from both sides of the isle. If you get off your high horse for a bit you'd be able to see that.

Oh please there are people on here who directly insult people, hurl racial remarks and obscenities who don't ever get banned because their ANTI everything views are accetable. So that's crap and you know it.

RockinInCanada

Last Exodus wrote:

The reality is that people on this board who don't go along with the prevailing view here are reported and banned. So what differnce does it make how I make my point? I make it so that someone out there might be spurred to dig a little deeper, because I don't see much more than self serving newspaper clippings to back up people's points rather than actual well thought out individual knowledge. It's easy just to jump on the bandwagon and attack all things Geroge Bush or pro-American whatever that might be. But to actually engage in reasoned debate requires more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.

LOL!

I have read some of your posts and you constantly respond in an aggressive manner that is far from reasoned....I think you may be the one having difficulties reaching a reasoned debate....too funny.....plus there has been much reasoned debate here from both sides of the picket fence....don't fool yourself to believe that mockery and slander attacks come from just one side....

Last Exodus

Byrnzie wrote:

Hello. Good to have you back.

Ive never left...: )

RockinInCanada

Last Exodus wrote:

Racist. That's funny. Im done debating Bozo the Clown. You lose Canuck fuck

Just to show an example.....reason really describes this post....