Bush calls for a Palestinian state

2

Comments

  • The reality is that people on this board who don't go along with the prevailing view here are reported and banned. So what differnce does it make how I make my point? I make it so that someone out there might be spurred to dig a little deeper, because I don't see much more than self serving newspaper clippings to back up people's points rather than actual well thought out individual knowledge. It's easy just to jump on the bandwagon and attack all things Geroge Bush or pro-American whatever that might be. But to actually engage in reasoned debate requires more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.


    Reasoned debate? That's what you call your posts? Yeeeaaah. :rolleyes: The reason people like you get banned is because you continuously ignore the posting guidelines and feel the need to get hostile and personal. Let's stop pretending it's your view on things that gets you banned. There are plenty of Israel supporters who can carry on a civilized debate here.

    People usually get educated by reading. Where or what is acceptable enough to pass for your 'well thought out individual knowledge'. What you read may carry a different slant but everything comes from the author's perspective. It doesn't make you more educated...sorry. And there are plent of bandwagons people jump on from both sides of the isle. If you get off your high horse for a bit you'd be able to see that.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    If you care so much, why dont you Martyr your children...Sickening? Absolutely.

    Hello. Good to have you back. ;)
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    miller8966 wrote:
    I personally dont want them to have their own land.

    Why?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The reality is the average Arab government could give two shits about the Palestinians. They were kicked out Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt in large numbers. The Palestinians, sadly, are used by virtually every Arab and Muslim despot to serve their own purposes. Once it was Nasser, Qaddafi, Amin, Kohmeini, and now Ahmadnijad. It's all the same. The Saudis alone could provide the dough out of probably 1/4 of year's oil profits to build a Palestinian infratructure. But do they? No. Why not? They don't give a shit. That's the truth. So before you get on the Hamas bandwagon do some reading. Because they crap that gets churned out on this board is just that, crap.

    So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.

    I agree that the majority of Arab governments simply feather their own nests. The reason the Saudi government doesn't give a shit is because the west is it's biggest customer and outwardly showing support for the Palestinians, to the detriment of Israel, would jeopardise these lucrative relationships. The pro-western stance of the Saudi Government is one reason we now have Al Queda to contend with.
    The reason why Hamas and Hezbollah are so popular is because the people want change, and these appear to be the only parties prepared to stand up for the populations of their respective countries. The problem the Western governments are now facing is that not all people are driven by money. In this part of the world religious beliefs tend to take precedence. Some people can't be bribed and paid off, but instead aspire to other ideals. This is where the tension in the Middle East arises and why we are now knee deep in a quagmire.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Racist. That's funny. Im done debating Bozo the Clown. You lose Canuck fuck

    you lost me with this comment.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Ahnimus wrote:
    I tried to go clean from protesting but I'm a recidivist
    my government behaving with unlimited wickedness
    in the interest of peace is how a liar wages war
    then clamors for more.
    I wish we had elections every day
    wave the ballot in the air like a sign when I say
    that democracy delivered by the bomb and the gun
    is terror elsewhere on the world I'm from

    do you cheer for the once-and-for-all of an enemy
    whose hand our man don was on in '83
    but who now exemplifies all evil
    that's what you get for shaking hands with people
    who represent the vast and sinister interests of industry
    we protect the free trade world, so don't dare try to stop us
    we deliver them bullets and sell them their coffins

    and I wish that I could afford the ear of Bush the second
    I'd ask is it your favorite philosopher who recommended
    invading and exterminating all who defy us,
    crying out justice but seeking out triumphs?
    wasn't your christ unbeloved of empires?
    one nailed his ass to a post; he expired!
    a terrorist, as roman evidence showed
    put down like a retard on the death row
    in texas, I guess "tough luck," right George?
    ain't that how every war gets scored?
    big gun wins, winner gets a free turn
    enemy after enemy burns
    are you listening sir? or did your mind drift
    to the next country in your axis
    to all the cool bombs drops you get to call
    delivery fresh from the 4th reich to y'all

    http://frontalot.com/media.php/76/mc_frontalot_-_special_delivery.mp3


    lol You're a goofball.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • Reasoned debate? That's what you call your posts? Yeeeaaah. :rolleyes: The reason people like you get banned is because you continuously ignore the posting guidelines and feel the need to get hostile and personal. Let's stop pretending it's your view on things that gets you banned. There are plenty of Israel supporters who can carry on a civilized debate here.

    People usually get educated by reading. Where or what is acceptable enough to pass for your 'well thought out individual knowledge'. What you read may carry a different slant but everything comes from the author's perspective. It doesn't make you more educated...sorry. And there are plent of bandwagons people jump on from both sides of the isle. If you get off your high horse for a bit you'd be able to see that.


    Oh please there are people on here who directly insult people, hurl racial remarks and obscenities who don't ever get banned because their ANTI everything views are accetable. So that's crap and you know it.
  • The reality is that people on this board who don't go along with the prevailing view here are reported and banned. So what differnce does it make how I make my point? I make it so that someone out there might be spurred to dig a little deeper, because I don't see much more than self serving newspaper clippings to back up people's points rather than actual well thought out individual knowledge. It's easy just to jump on the bandwagon and attack all things Geroge Bush or pro-American whatever that might be. But to actually engage in reasoned debate requires more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.

    LOL!

    I have read some of your posts and you constantly respond in an aggressive manner that is far from reasoned....I think you may be the one having difficulties reaching a reasoned debate....too funny.....plus there has been much reasoned debate here from both sides of the picket fence....don't fool yourself to believe that mockery and slander attacks come from just one side....
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Hello. Good to have you back. ;)
    Ive never left...: )
  • Racist. That's funny. Im done debating Bozo the Clown. You lose Canuck fuck

    Just to show an example.....reason really describes this post....
  • you lost me with this comment.
    The man called me a racist. this was a response.
  • Oh please there are people on here who directly insult people, hurl racial remarks and obscenities who don't ever get banned because their ANTI everything views are accetable. So that's crap and you know it.


    I've been banned before and so have a few people who I think you would consider 'ANTI everything' whatever that actually means. Although, I can't say there are too many people here who hurl racial remarks, or regularly use obscenities or insults....just a small few and it's gotten to be a bit tired lately. So no, what I said is not crap. You have went out of your way to use the personal angle in multiple posts, at least own up and quit trying to hide behind 'well, he did it too' and finally just grow up. Maybe then we can discuss things.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • I myself am tired of those folks who reply to everyone they disagree with with an arrogant, smug, yet calm demeanor. Then take the high road once they've sufficiently crawled under someones skin.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    The man called me a racist. this was a response.

    then you respond with decorum. you don't bring yourself down to the other's level. it just shows the same lack of intelligence.
    and for everyone's information if you are a white person, palestinians are 'our race.' as are Jews. what you are doing when you class them as outside the 'white race' is merely racialising ethnicity.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • then you respond with decorum. you don't bring yourself down to the other's level. it just shows the same lack of intelligence.

    No it doesn't. Intelligent folks have the right to be just as big a prick as the next person. Decorum is simply choice.

    Notice my use of the word 'person'. Someone commend me for my PC!
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    And we all know the Euro controlled AI would never exaggerate a statistic or a fact to serve it's own purposes. These institutions you speak of are made up of human beings who are fallible and subject to bias like any other organization. AI is not god. I don't dispute the Palestinians largely live in terrible conditions. How do I know? I was just there. I went, despite all of my governments warnings not to go, and saw the West Bank myself. I went to Hebron, I went to Bethelhem. Do the Israelis live more comfortably? Absolutely. Why? Simple, an educated democratic people using its limited resources to create a burgeoning economy. If the Israelis can do it for themselves why can't the arabs? And don't feed me this American support bullshit. We did not even support Israel in the 67 War until the very end.


    I also went to Egypt and to Jordan, and I can tell you that condition in those countries were just as desparate as the Palestinian. The reality is the average Arab government could give two shits about the Palestinians. They were kicked out Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt in large numbers. The Palestinians, sadly, are used by virtually every Arab and Muslim despot to serve their own purposes. Once it was Nasser, Qaddafi, Amin, Kohmeini, and now Ahmadnijad. It's all the same. The Saudis alone could provide the dough out of probably 1/4 of year's oil profits to build a Palestinian infratructure. But do they? No. Why not? They don't give a shit. That's the truth. So before you get on the Hamas bandwagon do some reading. Because they crap that gets churned out on this board is just that, crap.

    So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.

    I'm not even gonna comment all your post. It drips with so much hate and anger that the few arguments you actually make are overflowed and unintelligible. From what I have read so far you seem completely dominated by your xenophobia, I'm sorry but it does not help you achieve reasonable debate.
    There are two things to your post : you have good knowledge history, you invent travels. I went to Egypt to, it has nothing to do with a "desperate condition" or the "terrible conditions" the Palestinian live in. I believe it's the same for Jordan and most surrounding countries not at war right now (appart from lebanon - of course), you know why? Because neither country are facing the political (inside and with Israel), humanitarian (well you saw it yourself) and economical (since Hamas got in power I understand support has not been the same) crisis of Palestine right now.
    Also what is the secret agenda of these organisations that spin statistic to serve their purpose? I am curious about that.
    I do have advice though : consider getting in a soccer fan club, you get to hit people who don't look like you or think like you every week. yay. (you might have to relocate to Europe though).

    ps : You seem surprised to have one of your threads deleted while insulting pearl jam fans on a pearl jam forum. I'm shocked.
    pps : guess what? I disagree with youa and I am not hamas/mujahideen/from germany in the 40's.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    No it doesn't. Intelligent folks have the right to be just as big a prick as the next person. Decorum is simply choice.

    Notice my use of the word 'person'. Someone commend me for my PC!

    sure it does. they denigrate you for your opinion cause they can't respond in an intelligent manner. what you do is bury them in logic. or just smile. :)

    but yes you are right, decorum is a choice. and i choose it.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    I agree that the majority of Arab governments simply feather their own nests. The reason the Saudi government doesn't give a shit is because the west is it's biggest customer and outwardly showing support for the Palestinians, to the detriment of Israel, would jeopardise these lucrative relationships. The pro-western stance of the Saudi Government is one reason we now have Al Queda to contend with.
    The reason why Hamas and Hezbollah are so popular is because the people want change, and these appear to be the only parties prepared to stand up for the populations of their respective countries. The problem the Western governments are now facing is that not all people are driven by money. In this part of the world religious beliefs tend to take precedence. Some people can't be bribed and paid off, but instead aspire to other ideals. This is where the tension in the Middle East arises and why we are now knee deep in a quagmire.
    I partially agree. Where I disagree is the cause of the radical fundamentalism. I think that has little to do with religous belief and more to do with outright poverty and the disenfranchisement of many of the people in that part of the world who are largely oppressed by their own dictators and monarchs. Israel and the West and merely scapegoats. It is easier to blame them then have the people of those nations look at their own inner failings. This is a phenomenen that has repeated itself time and again all over the world. One need only look at 1930's Germany for a good analogy.
  • Kann wrote:
    I'm not even gonna comment all your post. It drips with so much hate and anger that the few arguments you actually make are overflowed and unintelligible. From what I have read so far you seem completely dominated by your xenophobia, I'm sorry but it does not help you achieve reasonable debate.
    There are two things to your post : you have good knowledge history, you invent travels. I went to Egypt to, it has nothing to do with a "desperate condition" or the "terrible conditions" the Palestinian live in. I believe it's the same for Jordan and most surrounding countries not at war right now (appart from lebanon - of course), you know why? Because neither country are facing the political (inside and with Israel), humanitarian (well you saw it yourself) and economical (since Hamas got in power I understand support has not been the same) crisis of Palestine right now.
    Also what is the secret agenda of these organisations that spin statistic to serve their purpose? I am curious about that.
    I do have advice though : consider getting in a soccer fan club, you get to hit people who don't look like you or think like you every week. yay. (you might have to relocate to Europe though).

    ps : You seem surprised to have one of your threads deleted while insulting pearl jam fans on a pearl jam forum. I'm shocked.
    pps : guess what? I disagree with youa and I am not hamas/mujahideen/from germany in the 40's.

    Didn't you say you weren't gonna comment on my post? Me confused
  • Kann wrote:
    I'm not even gonna comment all your post. It drips with so much hate and anger that the few arguments you actually make are overflowed and unintelligible. From what I have read so far you seem completely dominated by your xenophobia, I'm sorry but it does not help you achieve reasonable debate.
    There are two things to your post : you have good knowledge history, you invent travels. I went to Egypt to, it has nothing to do with a "desperate condition" or the "terrible conditions" the Palestinian live in. I believe it's the same for Jordan and most surrounding countries not at war right now (appart from lebanon - of course), you know why? Because neither country are facing the political (inside and with Israel), humanitarian (well you saw it yourself) and economical (since Hamas got in power I understand support has not been the same) crisis of Palestine right now.
    Also what is the secret agenda of these organisations that spin statistic to serve their purpose? I am curious about that.
    I do have advice though : consider getting in a soccer

    fan club, you get to hit people who don't look like you or think like you every week. yay. (you might have to relocate to Europe though).

    ps : You seem surprised to have one of your threads deleted while insulting pearl jam fans on a pearl jam forum. I'm shocked.
    pps : guess what? I disagree with youa and I am not hamas/mujahideen/from germany in the 40's.


    and Soccers for pussies....
  • then you respond with decorum. you don't bring yourself down to the other's level. it just shows the same lack of intelligence.
    and for everyone's information if you are a white person, palestinians are 'our race.' as are Jews. what you are doing when you class them as outside the 'white race' is merely racialising ethnicity.


    I appreciate your point. But im lost on this palestinian race thing. I think i was misquoted because I never meant to say anything of the sort. Please point out what you are referring to because Im sure I phrased it wrong. I dont get into discussion of people's race ever.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I appreciate your point. But im lost on this palestinian race thing. I think i was misquoted because I never meant to say anything of the sort. Please point out what you are referring to because Im sure I phrased it wrong. I dont get into discussion of people's race ever.

    i was commenting generally on what people constitute as race, it wasn't directed at anything you said. as far as i am concerned race is a social construct used for the purpose of exclusion and defining 'otherness'.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • i was commenting generally on what people constitute as race, it wasn't directed at anything you said. as far as i am concerned race is a social construct used for the purpose of exclusion and defining 'otherness'.

    you are refreshing...
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I partially agree. Where I disagree is the cause of the radical fundamentalism. I think that has little to do with religous belief and more to do with outright poverty and the disenfranchisement of many of the people in that part of the world who are largely oppressed by their own dictators and monarchs. Israel and the West and merely scapegoats. It is easier to blame them then have the people of those nations look at their own inner failings. This is a phenomenen that has repeated itself time and again all over the world. One need only look at 1930's Germany for a good analogy.

    dictators and monarchs that are supported by the one country that has too much power to be opposed. so called democratic nations should never support any monarchy.
    and yes disenfranchisement through poverty has everything to do with fundamentalism. unfortunately in most cases it is in religion the poor often find solace. and so if you ignore the underlying basic shortcomings of a society, they will turn to what gives them comfort and a voice.
    you can not disparage the source of this comfort without offering them a genuine viable alternative.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    MrBrian wrote:
    Yep, infact chenney even called Mandela a terrorist in the 80's.
    ---

    Even night clubs were blown up during that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
    ----



    annnnnd reagan vetoed a un resolution on international terrorism b/c it would classify certain friends <including s. africa> as terrorists

    war on terrorism? since when!? for several decades we've been causing, creating, funding, arming...terrorism around the world
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • dictators and monarchs that are supported by the one country that has too much power to be opposed. so called democratic nations should never support any monarchy.
    and yes disenfranchisement through poverty has everything to do with fundamentalism. unfortunately in most cases it is in religion the poor often find solace. and so if you ignore the underlying basic shortcomings of a society, they will turn to what gives them comfort and a voice.
    you can not disparage the source of this comfort without offering them a genuine viable alternative.

    I cant disagree. I think that holds true anywhere in the world. Generally you don't find alot of people who own homes, and boats and shit blowing themselves up on public buses. The key to the whole shindig is poverty. Plain and simple. If you got dough, ya aint gonna wanna go...
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    And we all know the Euro controlled AI would never exaggerate a statistic or a fact to serve it's own purposes. These institutions you speak of are made up of human beings who are fallible and subject to bias like any other organization. AI is not god. I don't dispute the Palestinians largely live in terrible conditions. How do I know? I was just there. I went, despite all of my governments warnings not to go, and saw the West Bank myself. I went to Hebron, I went to Bethelhem. Do the Israelis live more comfortably? Absolutely. Why? Simple, an educated democratic people using its limited resources to create a burgeoning economy. If the Israelis can do it for themselves why can't the arabs? And don't feed me this American support bullshit. We did not even support Israel in the 67 War until the very end.


    I also went to Egypt and to Jordan, and I can tell you that condition in those countries were just as desparate as the Palestinian. The reality is the average Arab government could give two shits about the Palestinians. They were kicked out Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt in large numbers. The Palestinians, sadly, are used by virtually every Arab and Muslim despot to serve their own purposes. Once it was Nasser, Qaddafi, Amin, Kohmeini, and now Ahmadnijad. It's all the same. The Saudis alone could provide the dough out of probably 1/4 of year's oil profits to build a Palestinian infratructure. But do they? No. Why not? They don't give a shit. That's the truth. So before you get on the Hamas bandwagon do some reading. Because they crap that gets churned out on this board is just that, crap.

    So give me some real educated opinions. Not just bullshit opinions that are being fed to you by the radical left.


    hamas bandwagon? are you for real?

    maybe the checkpoints which are can be closed at a drop of a hat leaving you stranded, a security fence on land not belonging to israel and even the un called illegal, the OCCUPIED territories and the treatment of arabs withing them....and things like that kinda hampers their infrastructure?

    who said anything about lebanon and jordan and iran...? why is it called the occupied territories? oh yeah, cos it's not their land!

    what would be a good enough source for you? it seems the only ones good enough are ones that agree w/ you as certain ones can be not good enough at one point but reliable when it agrees w/ you
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I cant disagree. I think that holds true anywhere in the world. Generally you don't find alot of people who own homes, and boats and shit blowing themselves up on public buses. The key to the whole shindig is poverty. Plain and simple. If you got dough, ya aint gonna wanna go...

    and here's where we part company exodus. i am a socialist. i don't own a house. nor a boat. i don't see the absolute need. but i do ride on public buses. i do not believe that 'having money' is the answer. i prefer to think that people need to be treated decently. they need access to education, shelter and food. people need to be respected for who they are not for what they possess. governments should be for ALL the people not just those with money.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    and here's where we part company exodus. i am a socialist. i don't own a house. nor a boat. i don't see the absolute need. but i do ride on public buses. i do not believe that 'having money' is the answer. i prefer to think that people need to be treated decently. they need access to education, shelter and food. people need to be respected for who they are not for what they possess. governments should be for ALL the people not just those with money.

    ..
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    hamas bandwagon? are you for real?

    maybe the checkpoints which are can be closed at a drop of a hat leaving you stranded, a security fence on land not belonging to israel and even the un called illegal, the OCCUPIED territories and the treatment of arabs withing them....and things like that kinda hampers their infrastructure?

    who said anything about lebanon and jordan and iran...? why is it called the occupied territories? oh yeah, cos it's not their land!

    what would be a good enough source for you? it seems the only ones good enough are ones that agree w/ you as certain ones can be not good enough at one point but reliable when it agrees w/ you


    Where is this it you refer to? The West Bank and Gaza? Is that the It? Last time I checked half of it was just given back and now serves as a Qassam missile launching base.
Sign In or Register to comment.