Animalism

DopeBeastie

there are some schools of thought holding that EVERYTHING we do is motivated by wanting to feel good, so.


annnnnywayyyyy...

my girl and I went out last night, and leaving the club we happened upon two, rather large muthafuka's beating this shit out of this dude.... they were kicking him in the head, and blood was spilling out of a gash in his face... he was toast. i moved in on the primary aggressor while my girl moved in on the other guy, getting in the way of their kicks and punches, dialing 9-1-1.

i did that (probably, and in keeping with this line of thought)... because i felt bad for the crumpled up bleeding guy. my conscious line of thinking wasn't, hey, i feel bad and i want to stop feeling bad... it was, hey... if they keep kicking this guy in the head, he could die or something...

HunterandHunted

And if you hadn't intervened and he had died you would feel even worse for the guy and hate yourself for not preventing it - so by intervening you circumvented both his and your worst fears...Not pure altruism again.
It is a difficult concept to want to face up to and I too have had real difficulty and several heated arguments regarding this but again, the way you approach it is a personal thing - and whether you want to face up to it is another matter entirely...I'm not lecturing or saying that you should, I'm just saying that it is very easy to convince yourself that your doing things for certain reasons when the real reason's are something completely different...

When I fight, if you remember I don't go all out kicking in the head/when he's down and I definitely don't tag team because I know I would feel pretty fucking sick if I did some serious, lasting damage - that would far outweigh any satisfaction I get from the situation - again a selfish approach to act, regardless of how twisted that may seem...

PastaNazi wrote:

there are some schools of thought holding that EVERYTHING we do is motivated by wanting to feel good, so.


annnnnywayyyyy...

my girl and I went out last night, and leaving the club we happened upon two, rather large muthafuka's beating this shit out of this dude.... they were kicking him in the head, and blood was spilling out of a gash in his face... he was toast. i moved in on the primary aggressor while my girl moved in on the other guy, getting in the way of their kicks and punches, dialing 9-1-1.

i did that (probably, and in keeping with this line of thought)... because i felt bad for the crumpled up bleeding guy. my conscious line of thinking wasn't, hey, i feel bad and i want to stop feeling bad... it was, hey... if they keep kicking this guy in the head, he could die or something...

DopeBeastie

oh, i ain't got no problem with being selfish... THE universe doesn't revolve around me, but mine does

why is it your quest to get ppl to *see* your point, here... altruistically motivated??? or, perhaps this is a new and more creative outlet for your aggression? (get the starry-eyed peace lovers to see themselves as being full of shit?... it's kinda like punching hippies in the face, eh?)

HunterandHunted

PastaNazi wrote:

oh, i ain't got no problem with being selfish... THE universe doesn't revolve around me, but mine does

why is it your quest to get ppl to *see* your point, here... altruistically motivated??? or, perhaps this is a new and more creative outlet for your aggression? (get the starry-eyed peace lovers to see themselves as being full of shit?... it's kinda like punching hippies in the face, eh?)

I never said selfishness was a bad thing...

I'm not motivated to get people too see my point at all. I think your reading me wrong, or your reading what you want to see...
I'm also aware that you might be attempting to give me enough rope...
But i'm not that simple. The fact is that i'm simply challenging points of view and provoking argument in order to further everyone's (including mine) understanding of why we do the things we do and the real motivation behind our different behavioural patterns, that is all...Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm sorry if you think my approach is overly aggressive (i don't think it is - i have never denigrated anyone's argument for the sake of it and or don't use threatening language). Like I said before I play a lot of contact sports so have plenty of ways to channel my aggression - this is for the sake of intelligent debate. Not a case of right or wrong, but suggesting other ways and ideas of approaching things...

Your use of language suggests that I have indeed provoked you to assess your reasons for your actions, and ultimately, you don't like - hence your aggressive response to my reasoned argument...
But we don't like 'new' - its natural. For centuries everything 'new' was labelled 'blasphemous' as it threatened the way of life we had become accustomed to, until enough people realise its worth and it becomes mainstream. I'm not saying this is the case here - that these ideas will become mainstream - i'm simply suggesting another means of assessment - not as a teacher or guide, but someone who is open to other ideas.

A common mistake that is made is to say 'we learn from experience'. We don't. We learn from the assessment of experience or rather critical self-evaluation. It is a great skill to have and is always up for constant reappraisal - a self-taught skill anyone can have - as long as they are open to the idea of it. But of course, its a lot easier to ignore it and carry on regardless.

And yes I have punched the odd hippy - when I was younger and hadn't yet developed the capacity for understanding and acceptance - but now I can accept they have a different world-view and approach to life. But some are just still full of shit and often smoking a joint with these people becomes a real chore, they get all mystical on you and lose any thread of rational ability which can get kinda annoying - but i'm not gonna punch them just because their stoned. I've been smoking grass for nigh on ten years and all it does for me is to give me a general sense of well-being that is all, I don't try and force people to understand my point of view just because we share a joint...

You, dear Nazi, sound like you got a little pent-up aggression going on there, where's your outlet?

DopeBeastie

oh, i'm just playing with you


...my outlet...

DopeBeastie

HunterandHunted wrote:

smoking a joint with these people becomes a real chore, they get all mystical on you and lose any thread of rational ability which can get kinda annoying -

oh dude... this dude asked me my sign the other day??? i 'bout choked on my mastaccoli...

HunterandHunted

Just playing with me huh?
Shame I didn't rise to the bait - but it wasn't shark bait, I can sense these things...lol
What is mastaccoli exactly? Some vegetarian nonsense?
Off to hug a tree...

HunterandHunted

Dear Nazi, got something I'd like your opinion on - not for the faint-hearted but I'm sure you can handle it as you are a big girl, you love having an opinion and you'll undoubtedly judge me for it - which I kinda like too!http://forums.pearljam.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink
So hit me back if your interested and I'll give you the blog address.
Mahalo.

DopeBeastie

i'm game... shoot

HunterandHunted

Cool,
Go http://www.hunterandhunted-iam.blogspot.com.
Only one post so far but is somehow linked to an earlier discussion we had...
Selah.

HunterandHunted

So dear Nazi, are you LETGOROPE?
I think so...
Let me know.

HunterandHunted

Ok, i'm just being stupid, of course you are. 'I let go of the rope, thinking that's what held me back and in time...'
Pretty cryptic (and could be read as twisted, given the subject...)
I'm pretty sure I did do the right thing - but perhaps this could be explored further - right time, right place kind of idea. Once I get to know her a little better at least. I like to think of myself as fairly experimental (as i'm sure we all do) so having learned that this kind of fantasy is pretty widespread - i'm thinking why the fuck not?
You, dear Nazi are a saucy lady...Love it.
Maybe you could teach me. Am a keen learner...Lol

DopeBeastie

yeah, yeah... was listening to Benaroya Hall this morning on the way into work, and i've used that name elsewhere. pretty twisted considering the subject, indeed... tooo funny

if you're game to experiment, and you have a chica gaggin' for it? you should totally go for it ~ but wait awhile... make sure she's not crazy, cuz she might be considering she'd want a total stranger to go there, first time. (my gut says she is... but what do i know?)

just being told "no" sends me up a wall, so... you could totally tease by just holding her hands behind her back while kissin'...

men have given up so much control these days and ages. women have taken so much. we must needs strike the balance elsewhere, yes? lol... scary stuff when you really look at it. we "down" the whole caveman thing... men like long hair so they have something to drag us into the cave by, lol... and here we have all these women into getting their hair pulled, or their necks bit, or choked or whatever...



wierd

oh, and i'm learning too, so

holla holla

HunterandHunted

PastaNazi wrote:

yeah, yeah... was listening to Benaroya Hall this morning on the way into work, and i've used that name elsewhere. pretty twisted considering the subject, indeed... tooo funny

if you're game to experiment, and you have a chica gaggin' for it? you should totally go for it ~ but wait awhile... make sure she's not crazy, cuz she might be considering she'd want a total stranger to go there, first time. (my gut says she is... but what do i know?)

just being told "no" sends me up a wall, so... you could totally tease by just holding her hands behind her back while kissin'...

men have given up so much control these days and ages. women have taken so much. we must needs strike the balance elsewhere, yes? lol... scary stuff when you really look at it. we "down" the whole caveman thing... men like long hair so they have something to drag us into the cave by, lol... and here we have all these women into getting their hair pulled, or their necks bit, or choked or whatever...



wierd

oh, and i'm learning too, so

holla holla

That's an awesome take on the evolutionary aspect, one i'd only very briefly considered...lol.
I think she is a bit crazy but in my experience crazy is good as long as you're prepared to deal with any consequent fall-out with the requisite amount of humour (and body armour). Definitely not relationship material but then again there's only one person on this great chaotic globe I would even consider having a relationship with and she knows how I feel...just waiting in earnest for the reply...Must ask her at the outset if she's going to entertain any notion of backseat rape fantasies, so at least I can be prepared this time - ropes, cuffs, whips etc...lol. I wouldn't be able to buy that shit without pissing myself laughing at the counter (especially if it was an elderly woman).
Have difficulty taking much seriously, apart from one thing...
But still, I'm 23 and am not so naive that I don't believe I got any more growing up to do, I do...and older women seem to be helping from near and far lol...

As you can believe I don't down the whole caveman thing (my earliest discussion on this thread) and I think you're right a redress of the balance of power is probably overdue but is it really so if only in the private sphere of fantasy and subjugation? Still trying to get my head round it all...But still, i'm a caveman with an iota of sensibility and coming from the viewpoint that any kind of violence against women is just plain wrong - being asked by a woman to scrap that view is a bit of a headfuck to be honest. But I like I said, we don't learn from experience but critical self-evaluation...And i'm not one to leave certain needs unfulfilled...ahem. So the evaluation continues...

Tell me, you see under your sign-in name (HunterandHunted) and you have a PJ song (mine's animal) does the administrator give you that? Don't remember choosing it...Still, I think its apt under the circumstances - given what the song's about...

Haven't kicked anyone's ass for a while, maybe I'll do that and it'll put me in closer touch with my primal side - 'stunned by my own reflection...looking back sees me too clearly...' Or perhaps not. Not really a valid reason...

DopeBeastie

~it's rare to come upon a bridge that has not been around or been stepped on~


yeah yeah... "Animal" is your "rank" on the board, and it's based on the number of posts you make. It's also your apparent "rank" in the bar, eh?

HunterandHunted

Considering the possible dual sentiments of your last comment, I'm going to take it as a compliment of the finest ilk...
'After all, description is explanation...'

DopeBeastie

yes, with the smiley/winky emoticon comes all good intents and compliments, lol



of course, there are several kinds of animals, don't you know?

HunterandHunted

Still can't work those emoticon things properly...Always appear beside my name, no matter...
I am the best kind of Animal - or the one I identify with the most is...
Can you guess?










Baby

DopeBeastie

a metallic wood-boring beetle?







you have to type the semi-colon, close parenthesis in your text to get mr. winker down here, lol...

HunterandHunted

Yes, very good Nazi, how did you guess?

It is in fact the mighty Snow Leopard...I'll leave you to work out the parallels.