Animalism

Holey Ghost

BTW....I don't Hell or Heaven...is Place, at all

...but a State of Mind, or Being

.....of which we put ourselves, or let others have that effect on us

DopeBeastie

I'm a tad more practical than that, but knowing what I know, I know my capacity to hit the nail on the head of TRUTH is less than winning the lottery (lol... I don't play)...

so.


nice chat...
thanks

Holey Ghost

PastaNazi wrote:

I'm a tad more practical than that, but knowing what I know, I know my capacity to hit the nail on the head of TRUTH is less than winning the lottery (lol... I don't play)...

so.


nice chat...
thanks

I think we're all in search of the truth...and on a path of discovery. Sometimes 'the truth' hits us on the head! Sometimes it's just around the corner, or right there in front of us, and we are looking in the distance.

Or, it could be, that we all really 'know' what the truth is, but that we've 'conveniently' hidden most of from ourselves, so we have this fantastic game of 'rediscovering' it. It can make life fun. It can also make life miserable, so beware. But never give up hope, that truth is out there, or even possibly all within us...somewhere........"Doggone it, now where did I hide it?"

yes, I've enjoyed it too. and learned something

Holey Ghost

quote=HunterandHunted]Hmmm...This seems to be turning into a 'Being and Nothingness' debate that is in danger of losing its bearings - Spirituality is a different concept to different people - an intensely personal thing, i don't think it can be easily pigeon-holed - if you believe in yourself as spiritual being without the investiture of faith or worship of deity, do you become the deity? Would you still be aware without the physical body? - is that really answerable or is conjecture the only recourse?

I agree it's very very personal and can only truly be answered be each one of us indidually. That's an interesting point. At some point I suppose you'll just 'know' the answer re diety. Is it answerable? Yes, I think so. I think conjecture is what people do when they either don't know, and/or do not have an intense faith.

I agree with Pasta's awareness-i-have-that-is me idea that I'll lose when I finally cash my cheque. But spiritual awareness is not a familial concept - its an abstract not widely recognised because of the inherent differences in people's ideas of it.

I hope that when you cash your cheque that the bank is not overdrawn. ...j/k Not recognized by many in the West, but just ask the nearly Billion Hindus, Buddhists about spiritual awarenes...they've been at it for many centuries, and is not abstract at all to most of them.

I maintain that in those situations you become most aware of who you are because you are operating on a fundamental level of the human psyche - attack and defence or vice versa. This type of awareness isn't a side-effect of thought- its instinctive, ingrained and it defines your make-up and helps you assess to a greater degree just exactly what kind of animal you are - which instincts are natural to you.
Maybe it could inspire some type of epiphany - who knows? And in turn create a sense of one's self as a spiritual being. Perhaps. I ain't got that far just yet...


yes, many things are instinctive...like just simple survival...you may not 'ordinarily' kill a living thing in order to survive...but if you're suddenly in that situation.....you may...in order to survive, cuz the opposite, succumbing is not the instinctive thing to do........manking is definitely a different kind of animal.....but I think much much more than that.......and perhaps the fact that you are exploring these concepts means that you are probably well on your way to your own path of personal discovery[/quote]

HunterandHunted

Or perhaps providing 'that little glimpse of truth for which we have forgotten to ask'...

DopeBeastie

moments after this exchange, i came upon a magazine article (Discover, Special Anniversary Issue, October 2006) that touched on Albert Einstein's quest to unify god and science... it was pretty cool. the truth, beit capital TRUTH or little truth is "out there", and i'm really glad a bunch of smart mo-fo's are peeling away at it

ghost, you might dig the article, cuz Einstein was talking about the "dark matter" that causes the universe to expand... maybe there's your awarenesses, dead. i'm sure there are better sources that the one cited above, but it's in there, anyway.

hunter... your command of the language is a turn on

ciaociao

HunterandHunted

How interesting PastaNazi...I only just got started...

HunterandHunted

Just realised that you 'came upon' a magazine article. Were those words really more of a turn-on than mine?
Am disappointed...

DopeBeastie

pha ha...

i've never come upon a magazine in that regard, lol



yipes

HunterandHunted

Perhaps when I get my first feature commission you can...lol.

DopeBeastie

you're going to have to command a little more than words for that potentiality...











baby

HunterandHunted

Love it.
I think it's indicative in your use of the word 'command' that you realise I nurture a dominant personality but I have yet to reconcile this with the fact that I get bored pretty quickly with submissive women...But I seem to attract them all the same (let us not get into the egocentric/narcissist debate here...).
You, on the other hand, dear Nazi - seem to be anything but, in a non-pseudo- feminist kind of way and I am intrigued...
I am plagued by images of how our afore-mentioned discussion of the sensuality of the written word would come about, so to speak - perhaps the writing is on the wall. But then again, that could bring about a whole new world of difficulties...
But seriously, just out of interest what exactly would I have to have a superior command of to initiate the intimate glow of the divine feminine.
I'm pretty good at Pictionary...

DopeBeastie

hands, fingers, hips, lips, tongue, will, purpose and word ~ and not necessarily in that order (Pictionary optional.)

You attract submissive women because you are a dominant-type. Mousy women want to learn how to be like cats. And dominance in men is just plain ole seXy when tempered internally by real self esteem and genuine compassion. Really sexy. Ouch.

I love being female (except in those rare moments outside in a crowd when I have to pee). I love everything that's supposed to come with it, too. Having doors opened for me... a hand on my lower back to steady my step in too-high, high-heels. I never got the whole feminist thing. Professionally? You bet I should get paid like the boys do. But socially? I'm a good girl and deserve to be taken care of.

HunterandHunted

Indeed. I can safely say that over the years I'm pretty confident I have managed to hone the necessary skills that you deem essential (while being sidelined by pictionary) as well as maintaining the neccesary aesthetics to be able to do so...I love being a man. I invest a lot of faith in chivalry also, as I have learned its value...
Am I to take it as a compliment that you believe that I also possess qualities of real self-esteem and compassion? Compassion is often seen as a weakness between men amongst men - but never something that should be overlooked.
In your list I think I have one real stand out skill - ok, maybe three, but the one I'm thinking of combines the use of words but is equally effective, if not more, when I am silent...

Holey Ghost

Compassion should never be considered a weakness, but a virtue that all, of any gender should embrace, and if done, humanity would make this a much better place, for all.

HunterandHunted

Holey Ghost wrote:

Compassion should never be considered a weakness, but a virtue that all, of any gender should embrace, and if done, humanity would make this a much better place, for all.

Or is it a selfish construct that is often embraced vicariously in order to promote a feeling of doing good and consequently self-satisfaction?

DopeBeastie

HunterandHunted wrote:

Or is it a selfish construct that is often embraced vicariously in order to promote a feeling of doing good and consequently self-satisfaction?

This is what we were talking about earlier in this thread. I maintain that compassion is no selfish construct. It might not be "cool" to be compassionate in some circles... whatever, whatever. Not all emotives are appropriate in all situations. I don't believe aggression is a selfish construct, either. There are reasons we experience emotional responses to given stimuli... write outside that box and you're a psychopath.


Now, for your other question... it takes time to get to know people, Hunter ... I will NEVER EVER EVER make the mistake (again) of thinking I know people because I've read what they've written... NEVER. It is my estimation that you've gotta know someone and watch them go through a couple of ups and a couple of downs before you can make any assessment as to their general character... and even then, it could all be smoke and mirrors. Best to hang back and wait, I say... give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and sit pleasantly pleased when they ain't swinging dead, lol...

...you do know how to use them words, though ...

holla

HunterandHunted

PastaNazi wrote:

This is what we were talking about earlier in this thread. I maintain that compassion is no selfish construct. It might not be "cool" to be compassionate in some circles... whatever, whatever. Not all emotives are appropriate in all situations. I don't believe aggression is a selfish construct, either. There are reasons we experience emotional responses to given stimuli... write outside that box and you're a psychopath.

There are two types of selfishness in this context - the first, where you give yourself the pleasure of pleasing yourself (generally called self-centredness) and the other - where you give yourself the pleasure of pleasing others - a more refined kind of selfishness, if you will. The first is pretty obvious but the second poses problems by virtue of its hidden nature - because we get to feel that we're great when perhaps this is not the case. I.E. you give up several hours of your week to coach sports with disadvantaged kids and so you feel that you're contributing to the general happiness of these kids and the world in general. But you are, in actuality, fulifilling a selfish desire - the need to be needed.
If at least you can be honest about this kind of thing and say 'i give something - i get something' then that's cool - enlightened self-interest and a pursuit of truth.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe in pure motivation for altruism but I belive that it can only be described as such when its an unknowing act - when you aren't aware that what you are doing is helping others - that you don't gain the satisfaction I mentioned in my original argument. A good thing is never as good when you have no conciousness that you're good. Unselfconciousness is good.

And latterly...I applaud your softly,softly approach - for all you know I could be a murderous 13 year old girl with a pet rabbit called Marilyn, just waiting for the right moment until the bunny is ripe...
But seriously give me the rope and I'll do the best I can - probably lash it to the mast of a restored schooner called 'Discovery' and set sail for the Hinterland's...And if it's not long enough? Use it to drag my surfboard behind the boat and wrap a plastic human dummy on top - bait for shark-fishing...
Innovation is key. Oh yes.

Holey Ghost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holey Ghost
Compassion should never be considered a weakness, but a virtue that all, of any gender should embrace, and if done, humanity would make this a much better place, for all.

HunterandHunted wrote:

Or is it a selfish construct that is often embraced vicariously in order to promote a feeling of doing good and consequently self-satisfaction?

I can't speak for all others, but my own compasion for others is not motivated by me wantiing to feel good and consequently some self-satisfaction, but rather a feeling of a pure desire to help those in need of some help, and I suppose I would feel good about being able to help, but not for the reason wanting self-satifaction, but rather wanting to be able to have a posiitive effect in the world.

HunterandHunted

Holey Ghost wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holey Ghost
Compassion should never be considered a weakness, but a virtue that all, of any gender should embrace, and if done, humanity would make this a much better place, for all.



I can't speak for all others, but my own compasion for others is not motivated by me wantiing to feel good and consequently some self-satisfaction, but rather a feeling of a pure desire to help those in need of some help, and I suppose I would feel good about being able to help, but not for the reason wanting self-satifaction, but rather wanting to be able to have a posiitive effect in the world.

'...WANTING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT IN THE WORLD'

So, essentially this amounts to needing to be needed. And the sooner you can admit this to yourself, the sooner you will be able to much more good without labouring under false illusions of pure altruism....Its pretty easy to say 'lets all hold hands and help each other' look at Bono and Bob Geldof - you have to be pretty damn naive to suggest that they are motivated by unthinking selflessness - they have profited immeasurably from their high-profile eulogising in many ways...Does your spiritual well-being come from
'wanting to be able to have a positive effect in the world'?
I think you just confirmed my point.
Read over the previous post again and be honest with yourself...