Animalism
HunterandHunted
Posts: 140
Correct me if I'm wrong but Man is animal. Ce n'est pas vrai? Only, an articulate one at that. We have emotions to express all that we feel but we also have actions too. Violence has long been used as a means of expression, only its just not an acceptable means in this day and age - and you've got to wonder why. In its many forms it can divide countries/continents and on a local scale can irreducibly change the way we live. But the point is that it's natural. This is where the path diverges between creationism and evolution and I take the Evo road, and the slip road generally not taken.
During the evolutionary process we have retained a large part of the primal instincts common to our ancient hunter/gatherer ancestors - while other characteristics have been slowly phased out as we have progressed. The seeking of a mate to reproduce is still there and our territorial/possessive instincts remain. It seems that it is in fact, only physically that we have become altered as time has moved along - our founding instincts remain true
- to provide and care for our nearest and dearest in the hope that our lineage will remain long after we're gone.
As we have developed the power of speech, however, things have become more complicated in terms of how we articulate ideas/emotions and go about our day to day life. We have the Human Rights Charter that dictates how we should treat other people - and these are seen as binding contracts that people are supposed to have signed up to by virtue of being born. But to be honest - they reek of Lawyer's counting the bills on the steps of International Law Courts and Unfair Dismissal Tribunals. Whatever happened to 'do unto others...' Heads of State start wars and kill countless people to annex more land and resources, then wonder why the international community gets on its sanctimonious high-horse and starts bombing the shit out of them. And to be fair, they've got a point - it smacks of the 'some are more equal than others' argument that dictates if you've got enough power you can do whatever the fuck you like.
Statutes like The Human Rights Charter and the Geneva Convention's 'rules of war' are ridiculous concepts because time and time again world events have proved that if someone wants to do something badly enough they will, regardless of a piddling set of guidelines dictating how things should be done.
'The Rules of War' - that one really makes me laugh.
So there are consequences, but everyone knows that, so the general rule is if your going to do what you want and people generally aren't going to like it - then don't get caught. But as Mr Dylan once said 'To live outside the law you must be honest' - and this is true to the extent that you must be honest with yourself regarding the reasons for doing what you want to do.
I think violence can be a creative means of expression. When I want to be, I can generally be quite congenial, articulate, kind - a decent soul and many times have I been in situations where a fight is about to start and i have mustered the verbal (and physical) skills necessary to calm the situation down - if for example, I/we are outnumbered or there are people among us that are undoubtedly going to get a proper beating. But just as many times I have got into these situations and felt that the only recourse was to drop my chin and make sure he goes down first. In these situations I make sure that a) I'm not angry - because if so you will lose and b) I'm not so drunk that I can't defend myself adequately and c) there is at least some kind of valid reason for going into reactionary mode. Why? Because sometimes there is no talking to people, and I don't suffer fools gladly. Some may think I am the fool for taking this attitude and not just walking away - but its an inbuilt gene - if I feel physically threatened its either fight or flee and to be honest, I quite enjoy fighting - the post-bout adrenalin rush, the iron taste of blood in your mouth and broken knuckles - it all reminds you you're alive. It awakens you out of the stupor that we sometimes wander into in our daily lives - and I lead quite a varied life but it happens to all of us at some point or other. Other times, bruised pride and a black eyes force you to pick yourself up and assess where you went wrong - so it can even be a learning experience.
For those who would argue 'why not take up boxing?' or something like that - I would say that because there are restrictions and rules that have to be abided by - its controlled and not a form of free expression. I'm not the kind of guy that kicks someone repeatedly in the head when they're down - let them up and carry on - or if they stay down - make sure they're not dying then carry on your way but its the spontaneity of an explosive situation that carries the punch, so to speak. I play a lot of contact sports - but never am I so aware, so ready for the challenge than when I am involved in a fight and those moments when you feel the energy surging through your body are great.
They tend to start over minor disagreements or someone with a less refined sense of irony misinterprets something I've said but I wouldn't say I go out looking for fights. I guess I meet trouble somewhere around halfway.
I also believe that it stimulates the chemical balance of the brain - keeping it in check and appealing to those hidden primal urges we so often ignore. Newspapers are riddled with stories of (up until then) sane, ordinary people with humdrum lives coming home from work and snapping over the tiniest thing and then shoot their whole family/neighbours/themselves...Bottling up all the anger and pain is counter-productive and talking about it at 'hugging and healing' hour can only do so much. Physical Violence is a total release of pent up everything everything.
Of course there are many forms - and i would never condone or use violence against women/children no matter what the situation - but still it happens. Generally perpetrated by the weaker males in society that are cowards and have no self-control and would probably take a real beating if they tried it on an even match. But still, it is very difficult, in Britain at least to secure a conviction against a man for beating his wife - so is it up to the stronger males in society to show him the error of his ways? Or shall we send him on a nice little anger management course?
I don't subscribe to the Human Rights Bill because I still believe in the 'do unto others' and if i'm unnecessarily being a cock I expect someone either to reproach me/throw down the gauntlet and thats that.
As for mass murderer's, the death penalty is a good thing but somehow not severe enough. I think they should probably be handed over to victim's families for maximum satisfaction - with no reprisals, that way you circumvent the 'playing God' aspect and boil it down to fair's fair -thats if they caught. Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadizc understand the importance of not getting caught.
Animal Rights activists are another lot that really get my goat. When did animals get rights? After Flopsy the bunny got bored of carrots and thought 'Fuck this, I'm becoming a lawyer and drawing up a charter for my kin that includes a different salad every day for life' Animals are there for our survival, pure and simple. Somewhere along the road we got a little confused about all of this and started tying bits of string round there necks and giving them names and letting them sleep at the foot of the bed (probably those who couldn't get laid). I've got a great dog and have owned the odd rodent in my childhood - while learning valuable lessons a) other animals kill other animals for food and b) hamsters can't fly. But my dog doesn't have a lawyer, she never complains because I do all i'm expected to do as a responsible owner i.e food, water, long walks and I let her away with murder because she's cool but i fail to see what rights she has. Its my choice to treat her in this manner but if I weren't so inclined I could pack her off to a testing lab for L'Oreal and make a few easy quid. The Activists like a bit of violence, sometimes directed in a disturbing manner and in the wrong direction, but these folk have failed to understand the basic precepts of the food chain. And then you have people like Tony who simply says to them 'for every animal you don't eat i'm going to eat three'. Indeed.
My views could be described simply as a fraught emotional power complex, but I don't believe this to be so. I feel I am just utilising the means I have been allocated in the great genetic lottery to their full potential - and hopefully that our ancient forbears could still relate to today. I have been told I am a well-balanced individual and I remain comfortable in my own skin.
If you would like to comment on these few words, for good or ill, then feel free - all will be received in the spirit of compiling wisdom.
Selah.
During the evolutionary process we have retained a large part of the primal instincts common to our ancient hunter/gatherer ancestors - while other characteristics have been slowly phased out as we have progressed. The seeking of a mate to reproduce is still there and our territorial/possessive instincts remain. It seems that it is in fact, only physically that we have become altered as time has moved along - our founding instincts remain true
- to provide and care for our nearest and dearest in the hope that our lineage will remain long after we're gone.
As we have developed the power of speech, however, things have become more complicated in terms of how we articulate ideas/emotions and go about our day to day life. We have the Human Rights Charter that dictates how we should treat other people - and these are seen as binding contracts that people are supposed to have signed up to by virtue of being born. But to be honest - they reek of Lawyer's counting the bills on the steps of International Law Courts and Unfair Dismissal Tribunals. Whatever happened to 'do unto others...' Heads of State start wars and kill countless people to annex more land and resources, then wonder why the international community gets on its sanctimonious high-horse and starts bombing the shit out of them. And to be fair, they've got a point - it smacks of the 'some are more equal than others' argument that dictates if you've got enough power you can do whatever the fuck you like.
Statutes like The Human Rights Charter and the Geneva Convention's 'rules of war' are ridiculous concepts because time and time again world events have proved that if someone wants to do something badly enough they will, regardless of a piddling set of guidelines dictating how things should be done.
'The Rules of War' - that one really makes me laugh.
So there are consequences, but everyone knows that, so the general rule is if your going to do what you want and people generally aren't going to like it - then don't get caught. But as Mr Dylan once said 'To live outside the law you must be honest' - and this is true to the extent that you must be honest with yourself regarding the reasons for doing what you want to do.
I think violence can be a creative means of expression. When I want to be, I can generally be quite congenial, articulate, kind - a decent soul and many times have I been in situations where a fight is about to start and i have mustered the verbal (and physical) skills necessary to calm the situation down - if for example, I/we are outnumbered or there are people among us that are undoubtedly going to get a proper beating. But just as many times I have got into these situations and felt that the only recourse was to drop my chin and make sure he goes down first. In these situations I make sure that a) I'm not angry - because if so you will lose and b) I'm not so drunk that I can't defend myself adequately and c) there is at least some kind of valid reason for going into reactionary mode. Why? Because sometimes there is no talking to people, and I don't suffer fools gladly. Some may think I am the fool for taking this attitude and not just walking away - but its an inbuilt gene - if I feel physically threatened its either fight or flee and to be honest, I quite enjoy fighting - the post-bout adrenalin rush, the iron taste of blood in your mouth and broken knuckles - it all reminds you you're alive. It awakens you out of the stupor that we sometimes wander into in our daily lives - and I lead quite a varied life but it happens to all of us at some point or other. Other times, bruised pride and a black eyes force you to pick yourself up and assess where you went wrong - so it can even be a learning experience.
For those who would argue 'why not take up boxing?' or something like that - I would say that because there are restrictions and rules that have to be abided by - its controlled and not a form of free expression. I'm not the kind of guy that kicks someone repeatedly in the head when they're down - let them up and carry on - or if they stay down - make sure they're not dying then carry on your way but its the spontaneity of an explosive situation that carries the punch, so to speak. I play a lot of contact sports - but never am I so aware, so ready for the challenge than when I am involved in a fight and those moments when you feel the energy surging through your body are great.
They tend to start over minor disagreements or someone with a less refined sense of irony misinterprets something I've said but I wouldn't say I go out looking for fights. I guess I meet trouble somewhere around halfway.
I also believe that it stimulates the chemical balance of the brain - keeping it in check and appealing to those hidden primal urges we so often ignore. Newspapers are riddled with stories of (up until then) sane, ordinary people with humdrum lives coming home from work and snapping over the tiniest thing and then shoot their whole family/neighbours/themselves...Bottling up all the anger and pain is counter-productive and talking about it at 'hugging and healing' hour can only do so much. Physical Violence is a total release of pent up everything everything.
Of course there are many forms - and i would never condone or use violence against women/children no matter what the situation - but still it happens. Generally perpetrated by the weaker males in society that are cowards and have no self-control and would probably take a real beating if they tried it on an even match. But still, it is very difficult, in Britain at least to secure a conviction against a man for beating his wife - so is it up to the stronger males in society to show him the error of his ways? Or shall we send him on a nice little anger management course?
I don't subscribe to the Human Rights Bill because I still believe in the 'do unto others' and if i'm unnecessarily being a cock I expect someone either to reproach me/throw down the gauntlet and thats that.
As for mass murderer's, the death penalty is a good thing but somehow not severe enough. I think they should probably be handed over to victim's families for maximum satisfaction - with no reprisals, that way you circumvent the 'playing God' aspect and boil it down to fair's fair -thats if they caught. Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadizc understand the importance of not getting caught.
Animal Rights activists are another lot that really get my goat. When did animals get rights? After Flopsy the bunny got bored of carrots and thought 'Fuck this, I'm becoming a lawyer and drawing up a charter for my kin that includes a different salad every day for life' Animals are there for our survival, pure and simple. Somewhere along the road we got a little confused about all of this and started tying bits of string round there necks and giving them names and letting them sleep at the foot of the bed (probably those who couldn't get laid). I've got a great dog and have owned the odd rodent in my childhood - while learning valuable lessons a) other animals kill other animals for food and b) hamsters can't fly. But my dog doesn't have a lawyer, she never complains because I do all i'm expected to do as a responsible owner i.e food, water, long walks and I let her away with murder because she's cool but i fail to see what rights she has. Its my choice to treat her in this manner but if I weren't so inclined I could pack her off to a testing lab for L'Oreal and make a few easy quid. The Activists like a bit of violence, sometimes directed in a disturbing manner and in the wrong direction, but these folk have failed to understand the basic precepts of the food chain. And then you have people like Tony who simply says to them 'for every animal you don't eat i'm going to eat three'. Indeed.
My views could be described simply as a fraught emotional power complex, but I don't believe this to be so. I feel I am just utilising the means I have been allocated in the great genetic lottery to their full potential - and hopefully that our ancient forbears could still relate to today. I have been told I am a well-balanced individual and I remain comfortable in my own skin.
If you would like to comment on these few words, for good or ill, then feel free - all will be received in the spirit of compiling wisdom.
Selah.
What do you call 3 sheep tied together in the middle of Wales? - A Leisure Centre.
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Comments
however. the system we elect to operate under, that of police and law and those sorts of things that generally keep neighbor jed from busting into our homes and stealing our beer and daughters EFFECTS law so that we may simply live.
it's a trade off. can't go 'round busting ignoramusses in the mouth ~ but we get to live in a generally hospitable environment... unless you's in the hood... then you gotta keep your clip on
we are animals. we evolve into ever-more cognitive, thought-based beings ~ but in the meantime ~ it's grave behavior...
with enough time, however, heat and/or pressure... no thing is irreducible
keep this writing... read it in twenty... you'll enjoy it
(oh, and lobb... you are absolutely right ~ we should take care of each other... it's a long way off, but it's a damned-fine goal... maybe it's god who's evolving and we're the priomordial soup... hmm... mmm mmm good)
Some of your premise seems logical, however I believe humans are actually much more than just animals made of flesh of blood. Our animalistic instincts have certainly helped our species survive. What distinguishes men and women from other animals tho is the capacity or our minds, and I believe our spiritual nature. In other words, I believe we're all immortal beings that happen to be temporarily inhabiiting animal-like bodies.
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Same goes for Flopsy the Bunny and all his chums.
...and on the lighter side....H.G. is an animal....of which they broke the mold....(smile)
it's only after you've lost everything ...that you are free to do anything....(Fight Club)
... I'll ride the wave...where it takes me....
I went from Ghost, to Animal to Red Mosquito, Dissident, and now I am a Soldier of Love! and I want to stay in the trenches a long time enjoying the Battles of Warfare wtih Love
Now, back to EVO>>>>
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
i don't think the human rights charter is made in the spirit of anything other than seeing little kids and old people with their fucking arms or legs blown off
sympathy and compassion must be genetically advantageous emotions or they wouldn't have evolved in our species, or so many other species out there exhibiting the same sort of intellectual output. social responsibility is not limited to man.
Good read H & H
Some of your premise seems logical, however I believe humans are actually much more than just animals made of flesh of blood. Our animalistic instincts have certainly helped our species survive. What distinguishes men and women from other animals tho is the capacity or our minds, and I believe our spiritual nature. In other words, I believe we're all immortal beings that happen to be temporarily inhabiiting animal-like bodies.
So does the idea of immortality stem from procreation? That our essential characteristics survive us by virtue of the fact that we appeal to our animal instincts? We're still only using around 10-20 percent of our brains (fact) which on balance isn't a hell of a lot more than our primate friends. Spiritually, I think we have developed the capacity to kid ourselves convincingly - coincidence has helped...
How much of one's Mind...do we use....the brain is just a tool or instrument or via of the mind
Personally, I have experiences that have lead me to "Know" I'm a Spiritual Being. No one needs to convince me. It's a natural to me as walking or running...I know how to do it. Some are just taking their 1st step....and no matter what I or anyone does to 'convince' them....they still have to be the one to take their own steps on order 'know' how to walk or run.
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you will find whatever you look for, especially when arguing for arguments sake, ie... debate... and i think that if you take the percentage you referred to from only the male population, it might be considered "significant". please, however... let us not forget that the purpose of the female half. that is to support the tribe... FIRST... self coming second in many many things....
I think one question I'd like to ask all that may question whether we as humans are more than the physical nature of what we perceive.
We are aware....we sense our surroundings, atmosphere.
Who or what is it....that is Aware of being Aware? Is that something physical in nature?
The simple answer.....that is YOU.....and would you still be Aware of being Aware, if you didn't have a physical body as a via in the physical world?
That's the ? Fortunately for me....I didn't have to have my physical body die in order to answer that ?
I asked myself this ? when I was about 4 or 5 so I've been at for a while.
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
I think that needs to be separated from Spirituality and belief of oneself as a Spiritual Being, which may or may not have a faith or belief in a deity.
A belief or knowingness of oneself as a spiritual being does not force one to have a belief or faith in a deity.
An alternative of all of the above of course, is Dust to Dust...that we are nothing more than the mud and clay and bones and flesh of which our bodies consist of, and I respect that belief that others may have. Who am I to tell them what to believe, and the only thing we truly 'know' is we each personally really 'know'. All else is window dressing till we each discover the truth for ourselves.
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
we can say that the "awareness" that you are talking about is a side-effect of thought, evolved to promote life's survival. we can say that easy. take off the plastic gloves and scrub up for the next inspection.
but, it's not what i believe. i kinda believe like you do, with one catch... "I"... that is to say, the awareness-i-have-that-is-me, will die with me. but i don't think that the energy of my soul, that three-tenths of an ounce i'll lose the moment i pass on, is attached to "me". it isn't "me"... it's part of "life". the continuum... the collection... the connectivity... the god... whatever.
there's something there, and that's as close to it as i can get. but it's a departure from hunted's line of thought.
this is where we differ....
I don't believe we 'have' a soul, but that we the soul, and the heart, if you will, that which truly makes each of us unique, and that we do take our experiences. as recorded with our minds, with us.....and it's that 3/4 ounce, which is physical, and has weighed by our physical recording instruments (a scale right). I don't believe the 'I" has any physical nature at all, it just is
kicking someone's butt....well that has to start with a survival mechanism which we all have...we all truly do want to survive, in some fashion, or we'd probably not be here.....now, if you're doing it just for the hell of it...well that's a persnal problem
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
I agree with Pasta's awareness-i-have-that-is me idea that I'll lose when I finally cash my cheque. But spiritual awareness is not a familial concept - its an abstract not widely recognised because of the inherent differences in people's ideas of it.
To hark back to my original line of thought - Sartre maintains that 'Hell is other people' and I have to agree with him - as I don't believe in the biblical implications of the idea's of heaven and hell - so violence becomes the exorcism of being put in a situation where the other person is purposely or antagonistically deaf to anything you say and or is threatening you.
I maintain that in those situations you become most aware of who you are because you are operating on a fundamental level of the human psyche - attack and defence or vice versa. This type of awareness isn't a side-effect of thought- its instinctive, ingrained and it defines your make-up and helps you assess to a greater degree just exactly what kind of animal you are - which instincts are natural to you.
Maybe it could inspire some type of epiphany - who knows? And in turn create a sense of one's self as a spiritual being. Perhaps. I ain't got that far just yet...
Just think how VAST the physical universe is...and how little of it we've explored.
It's a foreign concept to many.....but suppose for instance...that at some point...there was nothing, not a physical thing at all...no chemicals, no matter, no space, no time...the poof! Out of nothing, came something, and here we are.
Yes, I do think that all beings that ever existed, stil exist...and guess what? They take no space at all.....except for their receords and memories of their past existences.....and even if they did.....and did take up a lot space....just expand the space....like the physical universe has done. These are tough concepts I know, and for many unfathomable.....yet to me, it's a lot easier to think this way than to think everthing if finite. I think in terms of the infinite.
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
...but a State of Mind, or Being
.....of which we put ourselves, or let others have that effect on us
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
so.
nice chat...
thanks
I think we're all in search of the truth...and on a path of discovery. Sometimes 'the truth' hits us on the head! Sometimes it's just around the corner, or right there in front of us, and we are looking in the distance.
Or, it could be, that we all really 'know' what the truth is, but that we've 'conveniently' hidden most of from ourselves, so we have this fantastic game of 'rediscovering' it. It can make life fun. It can also make life miserable, so beware. But never give up hope, that truth is out there, or even possibly all within us...somewhere........"Doggone it, now where did I hide it?"
yes, I've enjoyed it too. and learned something
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
I agree it's very very personal and can only truly be answered be each one of us indidually. That's an interesting point. At some point I suppose you'll just 'know' the answer re diety. Is it answerable? Yes, I think so. I think conjecture is what people do when they either don't know, and/or do not have an intense faith.
I agree with Pasta's awareness-i-have-that-is me idea that I'll lose when I finally cash my cheque. But spiritual awareness is not a familial concept - its an abstract not widely recognised because of the inherent differences in people's ideas of it.
I hope that when you cash your cheque that the bank is not overdrawn.
I maintain that in those situations you become most aware of who you are because you are operating on a fundamental level of the human psyche - attack and defence or vice versa. This type of awareness isn't a side-effect of thought- its instinctive, ingrained and it defines your make-up and helps you assess to a greater degree just exactly what kind of animal you are - which instincts are natural to you.
Maybe it could inspire some type of epiphany - who knows? And in turn create a sense of one's self as a spiritual being. Perhaps. I ain't got that far just yet...
yes, many things are instinctive...like just simple survival...you may not 'ordinarily' kill a living thing in order to survive...but if you're suddenly in that situation.....you may...in order to survive, cuz the opposite, succumbing is not the instinctive thing to do........manking is definitely a different kind of animal.....but I think much much more than that.......and perhaps the fact that you are exploring these concepts means that you are probably well on your way to your own path of personal discovery[/quote]
Graduate of the School for Sexual Gifted....magna cum loads
ghost, you might dig the article, cuz Einstein was talking about the "dark matter" that causes the universe to expand... maybe there's your awarenesses, dead. i'm sure there are better sources that the one cited above, but it's in there, anyway.
hunter... your command of the language is a turn on
ciaociao
Am disappointed...
i've never come upon a magazine in that regard, lol
yipes