"But me? One day I am thinking of
a color: orange. I write a line
about orange. Pretty soon it is a
whole page of words, not lines.
Then another page. There should be
so much more, not of orange, of words,
....Days go by. it is even
prose, I am a real poet..."
Originally posted by CranMalReign I think, therefore I'm not.
I'm telling you, it's a classic, centuries-old put down, devised to stop the creation of a world of poets, good, bad or indifferent, who might stop working like good little peasants and start composing when there was money to be made on the land. To think yourself a poet is a bigger threat than to write great poetry behind closed doors, so people are told, "You can't be a poet...only the court poet is a poet, and he doesn't say he is." (Lie..he was always boasting his status.)
Originally posted by Goulet to think you're a poet is irrelevant
Not if the poem concerns the notion of the poet:
"Irish poets, learn your trade,
Sing whatever is well made,
Scorn the sort now growing up
All out of shape from toe to top,
Their unremembering hearts and heads
Base-born products of base beds"
(Yeats)
A major theme of so much poetry is the self-creation of the poet as much as the act of vision itself.
Also, Shakespeare's Sonnets 1-126 aren't just love poems...they're about a poet questioning his status as a poet with his patron. The speaker thinks he's a poet, and gets jealous when a rival poet gains his patron's favour (Sonnet 86).
Originally posted by Yellow personally, i can't stand poetry about poetry..
or songs about songs...
double corndog, easy on the goulet :P
Aren't all songs about songs, all poems about poems, all art about art?
I'm enjoying this debate. There's a certain amount of "Devil's Advocate"- playing going on, but it's important as an intellectual exercise that we think this out. See - now I'm debating about debating.... we just can't help ourselves!.....
Queen of Light took her bow, And then she turned to go,
The Prince of Peace embraced the gloom, And walked the night alone.
Oh, dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The dark Lord rides in force tonight, And time will tell us all.
Oh, throw down your plow and hoe, Rest not to lock your homes.
Side by side we wait the might of the darkest of them all.
I hear the horses' thunder down in the valley blow,
I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow.
The apples of the valley hold, The seeds of happiness,
The ground is rich from tender care, Repay, do not forget, no, no.
Dance in the dark of night, sing to the morning light.
The apples turn to brown and black, The tyrant's face is red.
Oh the war is common cry, Pick up you swords and fly.
The sky is filled with good and bad that mortals never know.
Oh, well, the night is long the beads of time pass slow,
Tired eyes on the sunrise, waiting for the eastern glow.
The pain of war cannot exceed the woe of aftermath,
The drums will shake the castle wall, the ring wraiths ride in black, Ride on.
Sing as you raise your bow, shoot straighter than before.
No comfort has the fire at night that lights the face so cold.
Oh dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The magic runes are writ in gold to bring the balance back. Bring it back.
At last the sun is shining, The clouds of blue roll by,
With flames from the dragon of darkness, the sunlight blinds his eyes.
Originally posted by Yellow this song is not about a song
Queen of Light took her bow, And then she turned to go,
The Prince of Peace embraced the gloom, And walked the night alone.
Oh, dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The dark Lord rides in force tonight, And time will tell us all.
Oh, throw down your plow and hoe, Rest not to lock your homes.
Side by side we wait the might of the darkest of them all.
I hear the horses' thunder down in the valley blow,
I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow.
The apples of the valley hold, The seeds of happiness,
The ground is rich from tender care, Repay, do not forget, no, no.
Dance in the dark of night, sing to the morning light.
The apples turn to brown and black, The tyrant's face is red.
Oh the war is common cry, Pick up you swords and fly.
The sky is filled with good and bad that mortals never know.
Oh, well, the night is long the beads of time pass slow,
Tired eyes on the sunrise, waiting for the eastern glow.
The pain of war cannot exceed the woe of aftermath,
The drums will shake the castle wall, the ring wraiths ride in black, Ride on.
Sing as you raise your bow, shoot straighter than before.
No comfort has the fire at night that lights the face so cold.
Oh dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The magic runes are writ in gold to bring the balance back. Bring it back.
At last the sun is shining, The clouds of blue roll by,
With flames from the dragon of darkness, the sunlight blinds his eyes.
Intertextuality, a dialogic imagination for evermore!
I haven't even started to warm up yet....you should see me on the Bakhtin site......
No language is stable...it always contains a consonantal trace of a previous utterance either in the speaker's or reader's'/readers' experience....texts cannot help but interact hypertextually...experience and subjectivity dissolve into oneness....all words are about words about words.....we don't get to that mythical, signified bottle of Merlot-ness....unless you're me and a certain freshwater blue cascade who visits us occasionally!
this is one old ass thread.
i found it among some others while looking for a thread on the subject "English essay."
i'll have to read through this thread when i get some time as i was not a member of this board way back then.
There was a bloke called Roman Jakobson who said we poets think vertically and everyone else thinks horizontally.
i agree whole heartedly. we are very different and will not conform no matter how hard they try to break us down. i for one find proper English writing (for school) to be sheer agony most of the time. "you have to know the rules before you can break them"; i have heard this at least five times in the last year, all from English teachers who truly believe they can teach someone to be a poet. that is so wrong it is unreal to me. one is either born to be a poet or they are not. that is my opinion.
i agree whole heartedly. we are very different and will not conform no matter how hard they try to break us down. i for one find proper English writing (for school) to be sheer agony most of the time.{b] "you have to know the rules before you can break them"[/b]; i have heard this at least five times in the last year, all from English teachers who truly believe they can teach someone to be a poet. that is so wrong it is unreal to me. one is either born to be a poet or they are not. that is my opinion.
blah blah blah. ive never subcribed to this notion. hows about i just do it the way i want and rules be damned. english is full of rules and they just get in the way.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
blah blah blah. ive never subcribed to this notion. hows about i just do it the way i want and rules be damned. english is full of rules and they just get in the way.
this notion: "you have to know the rules before you can break them"
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But, just to be the devil's advocate, I'll say..."What if so many people wrote or spoke in sentences that didn't make sense, how would we all communicate?"
But, just to be the devil's advocate, I'll say..."What if so many people wrote or spoke in sentences that didn't make sense, how would we all communicate?"
Or, more correctly:
"What if so many people wrote or spoke in sentences that didn't make sense that eventually no one could communicate their thoughts to others?"
But, just to be the devil's advocate, I'll say..."What if so many people wrote or spoke in sentences that didn't make sense, how would we all communicate?"
with a whole lot of patience.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not so much that you have to know the rules before you break them, in my opinion it's good to know the rules so that you don't fall into the trap of using them, unless there's an aesthetic reason for doing so.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
its about america losing her intelligence so much that an average joe from the past(military experiment) becomes the smartest person 'in the world'.
tis also an indictment on the corporatisation of america.
personally i found all the stupidity numbing.
luke wilson is in it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
its about america losing her intelligence so much that an average joe from the past(military experiment) becomes the smartest person 'in the world'.
tis also an indictment on the corporatisation of america.
personally i found all the stupidity numbing.
luke wilson is in it.
Hmmm
I'd probably find it frustrating. I don't laugh at stupidity. It kinda irks me.
Comments
a color: orange. I write a line
about orange. Pretty soon it is a
whole page of words, not lines.
Then another page. There should be
so much more, not of orange, of words,
....Days go by. it is even
prose, I am a real poet..."
frank o'hara
I'm telling you, it's a classic, centuries-old put down, devised to stop the creation of a world of poets, good, bad or indifferent, who might stop working like good little peasants and start composing when there was money to be made on the land. To think yourself a poet is a bigger threat than to write great poetry behind closed doors, so people are told, "You can't be a poet...only the court poet is a poet, and he doesn't say he is." (Lie..he was always boasting his status.)
unless you're trying to get a job as a poet
which happens
meekly from time to time
and really the only instance
(aside from here...my brain on the sidecart)
in which i'd CALL myself that with any amount of conviction
goulet???
YOU NEED a SPANKING
the disillusioned self monickerd poet spake...
:P
spank....
there, one more for good measure
Not if the poem concerns the notion of the poet:
"Irish poets, learn your trade,
Sing whatever is well made,
Scorn the sort now growing up
All out of shape from toe to top,
Their unremembering hearts and heads
Base-born products of base beds"
(Yeats)
A major theme of so much poetry is the self-creation of the poet as much as the act of vision itself.
Also, Shakespeare's Sonnets 1-126 aren't just love poems...they're about a poet questioning his status as a poet with his patron. The speaker thinks he's a poet, and gets jealous when a rival poet gains his patron's favour (Sonnet 86).
or songs about songs...
double corndog, easy on the goulet :P
Aren't all songs about songs, all poems about poems, all art about art?
I'm enjoying this debate. There's a certain amount of "Devil's Advocate"- playing going on, but it's important as an intellectual exercise that we think this out. See - now I'm debating about debating.... we just can't help ourselves!.....
Meta- bollocks!!:D:D:D
no
I've changed the link. Try this:
http://www.phenomenologyonline.com/inquiry/6.html
Queen of Light took her bow, And then she turned to go,
The Prince of Peace embraced the gloom, And walked the night alone.
Oh, dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The dark Lord rides in force tonight, And time will tell us all.
Oh, throw down your plow and hoe, Rest not to lock your homes.
Side by side we wait the might of the darkest of them all.
I hear the horses' thunder down in the valley blow,
I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow.
The apples of the valley hold, The seeds of happiness,
The ground is rich from tender care, Repay, do not forget, no, no.
Dance in the dark of night, sing to the morning light.
The apples turn to brown and black, The tyrant's face is red.
Oh the war is common cry, Pick up you swords and fly.
The sky is filled with good and bad that mortals never know.
Oh, well, the night is long the beads of time pass slow,
Tired eyes on the sunrise, waiting for the eastern glow.
The pain of war cannot exceed the woe of aftermath,
The drums will shake the castle wall, the ring wraiths ride in black, Ride on.
Sing as you raise your bow, shoot straighter than before.
No comfort has the fire at night that lights the face so cold.
Oh dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The magic runes are writ in gold to bring the balance back. Bring it back.
At last the sun is shining, The clouds of blue roll by,
With flames from the dragon of darkness, the sunlight blinds his eyes.
I don't follow links
I follow eye winks
"There is nothing outside of the text."
Jacques Derrida
OK then. Who's next?
Intertextuality, a dialogic imagination for evermore!
I haven't even started to warm up yet....you should see me on the Bakhtin site......
i found it among some others while looking for a thread on the subject "English essay."
i'll have to read through this thread when i get some time as i was not a member of this board way back then.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i agree whole heartedly. we are very different and will not conform no matter how hard they try to break us down. i for one find proper English writing (for school) to be sheer agony most of the time. "you have to know the rules before you can break them"; i have heard this at least five times in the last year, all from English teachers who truly believe they can teach someone to be a poet. that is so wrong it is unreal to me. one is either born to be a poet or they are not. that is my opinion.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
blah blah blah. ive never subcribed to this notion. hows about i just do it the way i want and rules be damned. english is full of rules and they just get in the way.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
this notion: "you have to know the rules before you can break them"
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i really do not like this theory that some have.
they are nuts huh, cate?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Or, more correctly:
"What if so many people wrote or spoke in sentences that didn't make sense that eventually no one could communicate their thoughts to others?"
with a whole lot of patience.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yeah, and a bit of grunting and gestures.
you seen the movie idiocracy?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No, I haven't heard of it. Is it good?
its about america losing her intelligence so much that an average joe from the past(military experiment) becomes the smartest person 'in the world'.
tis also an indictment on the corporatisation of america.
personally i found all the stupidity numbing.
luke wilson is in it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hmmm
I'd probably find it frustrating. I don't laugh at stupidity. It kinda irks me.