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selling tickets on Ebay - thoughts?
i read something interesting from the head of a company called viagogo who said that he cant understand the moaning of bands and artists who complain about sites like Viagogo, Seatwave and Ebay selling concert tickets.
basically he said that when you buy a used Ford from a garage then Ford dont get another cut of that price... so when you buy a concert ticket from ebay why does the artist want another percentage of that sell on price?
and if you buy a concert ticket it becomes yours to do with as you please... if people are willing to pay 10 times its face value then you can sell it... it is YOUR ticket... bought and paid for.
Like a Picasso painting... you buy and it becomes yours... sell it on for a 120% profit then thats good business... same with the concert ticket...
anyway, he made good points... but i'm not entirely swayed.
basically he said that when you buy a used Ford from a garage then Ford dont get another cut of that price... so when you buy a concert ticket from ebay why does the artist want another percentage of that sell on price?
and if you buy a concert ticket it becomes yours to do with as you please... if people are willing to pay 10 times its face value then you can sell it... it is YOUR ticket... bought and paid for.
Like a Picasso painting... you buy and it becomes yours... sell it on for a 120% profit then thats good business... same with the concert ticket...
anyway, he made good points... but i'm not entirely swayed.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
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I agree.
Scalper making a living off of screwing fans who can't get tix = scumbag
I think most people around here only have a problem with people selling fan club tickets, or limited edition items like posters and Benaroya Vinyl. Mostly because that takes items away from fans who tried just as hard to get them, but didn't have success. And it gives them to fans who maybe don't have any children, or who are a little older and have their mortgage payed off.
I don't think either is illegal, but the latter is definitely unethical. I don't have a problem with scalpers buying 8 tickets from the box office to sell on ebay, but get a little rattled when I see someone at a concert buying 20 zippos, or posters. (especially when they are right in front of me and get the last Gorge I 06 poster!)
Speaking of which, does anyone have a spare??? lol
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=104018
I have a spare for 500. Hahahaha.
Do you accept post dated cheques?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=104018
Wha? Can you expand on what you're saying here?
2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
2009: Rotterdam, London
2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
I just meant fans that are in a better financial position to be able to purchase $500 records, or $100 posters. because let's face it, not everyone can.
Not that it's a bad thing to be successful. I just mean that it seems unethical to exploit these people and their love for the band while turning a $465 profit per Benaroya vinyl. Or (closer to home for me) a $50-$100 profit per concert poster while cutting 20 people out.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=104018
Oh yes I do!!
if Ford was making a very limited number of cars and a large portion of the one bought were by people who have no intention to use them, before the general public even get a chance to buy them even, then but put them back on sale immediately for inflated price because they've even more diminished the supply...then yes Ford would be pissed off too!
now what Ford would try to do is make sure those cars can only be bought by people that want to use them for the price they think is right (what 10c tries to do).
Problem is if they were forced to sell, on pain of their car not being able to use the main roads (venues), to go through a 3rd party garage (TM) that wants those kind of practices to continue because it's good for their business and they are in collusion with the resellers.
I'm pretty sure that those practices are regulated in several markets, financial for example, in the dealing of shares.
there could very well be made for tickets, in the interest of the general public. They are here for football tickets, because of the hooligans.
now I don't think the solution is for the artist or promoter to get a cut on the resale, because that still screws the real fans (the people that actually want to ATTEND the gig).
OK, but to equate that with 'kids' and 'mortgages' seems a little off to me. You don't wake up one day and suddenly have kids or a mortgage, both of those things are going to come with a significant amount of sacrifice involved (for most people), and I guess it just irks me when the fact that someone has kids or has other financial commitments is used to mean that they should somehow be treated preferentially.
I know that wasn't the real point of your post, but I think that feeling underlies a lot of the posts that come up when 'things' around here go on sale (tickets, collectibles etc.). It seems to me like people want to make significant choices in their lives and have it not affect anything else (the most trivial among them being things like buying Benaroya Hall vinyls etc.)
Sorry for hijacking the thread...
bit in bold: i wasnt meaning tenclub tickets... just run o' the mill concert tickets...
but anyway, Ford would have got their money... what that person does with their car is their business surely?
and that's the point, those people aren't really buying a car, or a ticket, only the speculation. I never said people shouldn't be able to resell their tickets, just not for profit.
and the problem isn't people reselling something it turns out they can't use, it's people who never intend to use.
Let's take Plane tickets:
if you buy a ticket on a cheap fare, you normally can't get a refund and you certainly cannot resell it to someone else. You know if you don't use it, tough.
why no-one has a problem with that?
Also, with a concert ticket, you're no buying a good. You're buying access to a service. the tickets only represent that access and has NO value of its own.
all tickets states they can reserve the right to refuse entry.
Why shouldn't people be able to sell their tickets for a mark-up? If the going rate for a given concert is face value +20% why should any one guy be expected to leave that money on the table?
As far as plane tickets, people used to sell plane tickets all the time before security was tightened. I remember when I was a kid looking at the classified section of a newspaper and seeing tons of ads for airline tickets. And even with non-refundable tickets you are usually given a credit for a future flight if you decide in advance you can't use them. If I decide a week in advance I can't go to a concert, ticketmaster isn't going to give me a credit to spend on tickets later.
and yes, plane tickets USED TO be resellable. Not anymore and I don't hear people complaining.
and though you might get credits or some refund, there's a fee attached to it, at least here, which means it's generally cheaper to buy a new one than change.
The reason promoters don't buy back the tickets (and TM would not refund their fee anyway, no more than the bastards give it back if the show is cancelled :mad: ), is precisely the scalpers.
because if they did, the rats wouldn't even run the risk to have to eat the tickets if the show doesn't sell out and would just return them...so they'd buy even more of the tickets!
So you should blame the scalpers both for making you pay through the nose for tickets you want and stopping you getting refunds for tickets you don't anymore and can't sell back easily at face.
A concert ticket is a revocable license to enter the facility, not a piece of real property. Concert tickets come with terms and agreements, and they choose to deny right of resale in that license, most times.
Its use is restricted. it is not yours to do as you please, technically.
the no refunds policy-which has been around for ages, before widespread scalping was a problem-is simply about TM or the promoters getting its hands on your money and keeping it. Also, perhaps the bands and the service providers insist on being paid in advance or no show.
I just don't get the whole ticket broker thing. Why are they allowed to horde large amounts of seats...hold them...make it seem like there aren't alot of options to get a ticket...then sell for a HUGE profit?
...and the guy who's been selling the password for the ticketmaster presale on ebay = bloody asshole!!!!
there's 10c members out there who missed out at both, 10c-presale and TM-presale. And this f*** b*** is making money by selling the POSSIBILITY to get tickets!!!!
If he's a 10c-member himself, he should be banned for a lifetime...
Europe 2006:
16/09/06 Verona
20/09/06 Pistoia
23/09/06 Berlin
Europe 2007:
12/06/07 Munich
18/06/07 London
21/06/07 Düsseldorf
24/06/07 Hurricane Festival
If someone is going to do something like that do you think banning them is going to stop them from trying to do something like that again? I mean if he gets banned all he has to do is sign up for a new membership under someone else's name that he knows (wife, girlfriend, kid parent) and he is back in business.
I looked and it took me less than 30seconds (before you jump on me, I had it already, I scored 10c to both shows anyway)
No one complaines because if you show up at an airport with a ticket issued to someone that doesn't match your photo ID you are probably going to get thrown in jail. And typically any airline I have ever flown on the change fee is usually around 40 bucks.
And why shouldn't I be allowed to make money on something I paid for if the value of it goes up?
i have this guy that i know. he created a facebook group called "vancouver concert addicts". he goes to a lot of shows. as do i. now he is straight up advertising that he has become a scalper. he bought 10 tickets to oasis and has them all up for sale on this concert addict group. thats not what the group was/is about. should i tell him to get a life?
i think we are all getting the short end of the stick when brokers and scalpers raise the market value. its such a race for tickets, we lose sight of things.
Those terms to me are just weasly contract items written by the promoter. I think a seller telling me what I can do with something once I hav paid for it is far more offensive than someone selling their tickets at a mark-up if people are willing to pay for them (and they are willing no one is forcing people to pay these prices).
Well, there WOULD BE possibilities to avoid this, by comparing e.g. IP-adress, Credit Cards etc... - of course, the 10 c is just a small "store" and probably wouldn't use such tools.
It just makes me mad to see such things happen and it's what I would do with this guy...
I know it was spread online for free and I don't blame anyone who found it and used it. And yes, people who buy a password are stupid too, but in a way I do understand them: They want to see PJ by all means, probably expected to get really good tickets and most likely thought, it would be easy with that password....
Europe 2006:
16/09/06 Verona
20/09/06 Pistoia
23/09/06 Berlin
Europe 2007:
12/06/07 Munich
18/06/07 London
21/06/07 Düsseldorf
24/06/07 Hurricane Festival
Personally I would rather not spend too much time tracking down someone who is doing this. I mean you are never going to stop it and your right 10club isn't really that big, so I am not sure it would be a best use of their resources to spend a bunch of time trying to figure out who did this.
As far as what you said about avoiding this, if I ever got banned for something like this, it would be as simple as having my girlfriend sign up for a membership, in her name, with her address and logging in from her house.
the terms of sale are there when you purchase the ticket, if you don't like them, don't buy....nobody is forcing you
I know no body is forcing me to buy a ticket (just like no one is being forced to buy a ticket at mark-up on ebay), it doesn't mean I have to like the terms of the sale.