Delighted that Jerry Mike and Sean are getting back together for a new album.
Not so delighted at the thoughts of them continuing under the name Alice In Chains. Why not change to another name? As someone else said, any AIC fan will know who they are.
I think if Jerry, Mike and Sean wanted to continue on as a 3-piece and call it Alice in Chains, it would be cool. Jerry's solo stuff was always amazing and he's a pretty good singer in his own right (ie., Heaven Beside You). It's just the fact that they're literally replacing Layne with this new guy that burns me a little.
Still can't wait to hear it, though.
"If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
—Dorothy Parker
It is too bad that Pink Floyd continued on after Syd passed, or AC/DC after Bon.... So many more.... Why bash? Deal with it, or dont listen. It is up to you.....
At least Creed had the decency to change their name after they booted Scott Stapp.
Of course, by that point the Creed name was more of a liability than a help.
"If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
—Dorothy Parker
Who cares if it's not the same? The Pearl Jam that released Ten were VASTLY different to the band that released Riot Act. Things change. The only thing I expect to be the same, is the quality of the music. DuVall is a great singer and writer in his own right, and from seeing them live, they clearly have a great chemistry together.
And to the person who said it's basically a Jerry Cantrell solo album, well if we're getting technical here, he was always the dominant song writer in the band anyway, so it's going to be no more a Jerry Cantrell album than Dirt was.
Ok, I can only speak for my opinion here but Layne WAS Alice in Chains for ME. He is the reason I listen to them. Also, he wrote the same amount of songs on Dirt as Jerry did, lyrically speaking. As such, I think some legacies are better left alone. I'd probably feel less strongly if Jerry just handled all the vocals because Layne is irreplacable. Just my opinion. I would sure hate for the guys to release an album of new material with Duvall under the AIC moniker and for it to ruin such a legacy if it wasn't up to scratch.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Ok, I can only speak for my opinion here but Layne WAS Alice in Chains for ME. He is the reason I listen to them. Also, he wrote the same amount of songs on Dirt as Jerry did, lyrically speaking. As such, I think some legacies are better left alone. I'd probably feel less strongly if Jerry just handled all the vocals because Layne is irreplacable. Just my opinion. I would sure hate for the guys to release an album of new material with Duvall under the AIC moniker and for it to ruin such a legacy if it wasn't up to scratch.
You say Layne was AIC for you, but without Jerry and the others there wouldn't have been any songs for him to sing, so your logic is a tad skewed. You might have enjoyed his contribution most, but one listen to Degradation Trip proves that Jerry was the most pivotal member in terms of creating that sound.
How would they 'ruin' the legacy anyway? Did Pearl Jam ruin their legacy by releasing (insert your least favourite album name here - in my view Riot Act)? I think not.
I understand why people get so attached to music, and in the case of AIC, the nature of Layne's death was so tragic. But for me, music is at its best when we're not throwing labels at it, and it just is what it is - it either moves you or it doesn't. You can sit there contemplating the moral choice in keeping the name, or you can forget all that bull shit, which ultimately means nothing, and concentrate on the music.
The whole recording under the same name thing, like somebody else said, comes down to practicality. If the band want to keep performing their back catalog live they need to keep the same name, but obviously they can't just be touring the same material forever, they need some new tunes. So if they've found someone they have a good chemistry with it totally makes sense to record with that person. Try looking at it as a new phase. There's nothing to say that if Layne were still around, that they wouldn't have put out a below par album, it happens to the best bands, no big deal. I know I'll catch some flack for this, but I don't think the self-titled record was on par with Dirt or Jar Of Flies, but that alone isn't suddenly going to tarnish my views of those records.
the topic starter asked to discuss the album and leave the "it's not AIC without Layne" crap by the wayside and here we've got 3 pages of "it's not AIC without Layne". proof positive that a high percentage of PJ fans aren't bright.
Jerry started it, and if he says it's AIC, then it's AIC.
I will buy the album the day it comes out and if they come around here, I'll be at the show. they've played here twice in the past year...once full on and once acoustic. I went to full on show and it was better than any of the 3 PJ shows I've been to. if they can put on a better show than PJ with a "replacement singer", then that's pretty damn good imo.
I liked both Jerry's solo albums, and you could definitely tell Jerry Cantrell was the man at the wheel. but I hope this album will be more AIC-esque with more vocal harmonies and heavier guitar parts. "Degradation Trip" was definitely more AIC-esque, and I liked "Boggy Depot" but it was definitely more "AIC lite". I think Duvall is a very talented singer and guitarist and will add a whole new dimension to AIC.
if you're a naysayer, please don't buy the album or go to the shows and just fuck off.
Rooster, Over Now, Got Me Wrong, and The Killer Is Me? I think Alice will be in capable hands. Honestly, songs with Jerry on lead vox have more of a lasting impression on me. So I'm curious. Even more so than Smashing Pumpkin album I'm yet to even touch, or as much as download to test it out.
Ok, I can only speak for my opinion here but Layne WAS Alice in Chains for ME. He is the reason I listen to them. Also, he wrote the same amount of songs on Dirt as Jerry did, lyrically speaking. As such, I think some legacies are better left alone. I'd probably feel less strongly if Jerry just handled all the vocals because Layne is irreplacable. Just my opinion. I would sure hate for the guys to release an album of new material with Duvall under the AIC moniker and for it to ruin such a legacy if it wasn't up to scratch.
Well said. AIC is not AIC w/out Layne, period. Just like Blind Melon is not Blind Melon without Shannon. I searched for "Soup" on Youtube the other day & found that asshat new singer singing it with the guys. Fucking sickening.
i'm looking forward to it, i'll listen with eagerly anticipating ears, if it speaks to me then great! a new AIC record!! if it doesn't, it doesn't, no biggie. bring it on.
I have ZERO problems with AIC putting out a new album. Jerry wrote just about all of their great songs, anyway, he just let Layne sing a lot of them.
Their songwriting (speaking of lyrics only) are about 50/50 with Layne writing just a few more than Jerry. Jerry "let" Layne sing on them? So Layne was ust some pick-up singer? Yeah, try letting Jerry sing some of his songs, and you would get his not-so-good solo records. Alice's great songs were not only the ones by Jerry. Jerry could not have written a God Smack or a Sludge Factory or a Nutshell. He's also said in past interviews that he would come up with instrumentals sometimes based on Layne's vocal melodies. So some of these great guitar parts everyone would give Jerry credit for was inspired by how Layne would sing. Layne deserves alot more credit in his creative input than people give him.
As a colossal AIC fan, I'm ok with them doing it with the remaining members as JC wrote and sang a huge amount of the bands material...but I think it would be wrong to try to replace Layne with a new singer.
If they release a new album...i will buy it regardless, but my expectations will be low.
"No need to be void,...or save up on life...You got to spend it all....."
And if one is to say that Layne Staley could not "make" a band. My best example is the Mad Season disc. Take Layne's vocals out of most of those songs and they end up being pretty mediocre. But thats just one man's opinion.
RIP Layne...you were a genius.
"No need to be void,...or save up on life...You got to spend it all....."
The band is gonna start working on an album after the holidays, I'm really excited to see how it sounds, and if it's any good, but New Album=Tour so even a shitty album won't be a bad situation.
And please if your just gonna post
"Layne was alice in chains"
Save it, I've heard it enough.
Cool, I hope they can put something together.
And I agree, Layne was not AIC. AIC was a very democratic band like Pearl Jam. He was a significant loss for sure, but not an irrecoverable one.
Let's face it people some folks are for whatever reason not going to be cool with this but other bands have done it and it is not that big of a deal.
Take Black Sabbath. For me black sabbath ended when Ozzy left. I don't like anything after that. for some people AIC will be the same and that is cool.
Now there are people out there ( i personally think they are strange people ) who actually like the Dio era sabbath stuff a lot. good for them just not my cup of tea.
anyway that aside i'm really excited to hear the new stuff. Jerry's last album degradation trip was pretty rockin. He must have some bad ass riffs saved up from over the past 5 years or so that he has not put out orginal material.
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I've said it before on this board and I'll say it again - the only people whom have a problem with this are the ones who haven't seen this band perform
I've said it before on this board and I'll say it again - the only people whom have a problem with this are the ones who haven't seen this band perform
Apparently all music debate should cease when a war is going on, but anyway...
I saw the new incarnation live and it just didn't work for me. DuVall was grinning and preening around the stage while singing someone else's intensely bleak and personal lyrics. Just didn't sit right.
Layne Staley was a frontman who transcended the band. In modern terms, I also couldn't accept Pearl Jam without Eddie or Tool without Maynard. Pink Floyd is a bad example because Syd was only on 1+ album. Not much into AC/DC, so I'll leave it to those fans to debate the merits of Brian Johnson. As for Sabbath...I'm an Ozzy guy all the way.
If I hear a decent song with DuVall, I guess I'll try to support it in a Dio-era Sabbath kinda way, but I don't have high hopes (based on the live show I witnessed). The guys can do whatever they want, but it's just not Alice In Chains to me.
Layne Staley was a frontman who transcended the band....
Forgive me, but I have a hard time swallowing this statement. Layne was great, his voice was awesome. But to say he took the band beyond limits they didn't even know they had, well, I am not sure.
This is my opinion, but Layne's struggles hindered the band. Imagine what they would be if Layne turned everything around and became sober? They would be bigger Rock Gods than they already are.
I watched a DVD the other day of a show (can't remember which one) where Layne was completely out of his mind. It was painful to watch.
William is not Layne, I will give everyone that. And AIC's first go around (06 shows) with Will was okay, not stellar (seemed Will was uncomfortable). I saw them in Sept at the Gorge, and they fucking rocked.
cause frankly, the music hasn't changed for me.
EDIT: oh, and Bon Scott was way better than Brian Johnson.
Forgive me, but I have a hard time swallowing this statement. Layne was great, his voice was awesome. But to say he took the band beyond limits they didn't even know they had, well, I am not sure.
This is my opinion, but Layne's struggles hindered the band. Imagine what they would be if Layne turned everything around and became sober? They would be bigger Rock Gods than they already are.
I watched a DVD the other day of a show (can't remember which one) where Layne was completely out of his mind. It was painful to watch.
William is not Layne, I will give everyone that. And AIC's first go around (06 shows) with Will was okay, not stellar (seemed Will was uncomfortable). I saw them in Sept at the Gorge, and they fucking rocked.
cause frankly, the music hasn't changed for me.
EDIT: oh, and Bon Scott was way better than Brian Johnson.
Could they have been more prolific if Layne had cleaned up? Absolutely. But when I think of Alice In Chains, it's Layne's vocals and presence that immediately jump to mind. I feel comfortable saying that this is the case for a great number of fans.
I base my "transcendant" comment on this and also by comparing AIC with Layne and his work in Mad Season vs. Jerry's solo material, Jerry's solo live shows, and current AIC live shows.
None of you have a clue about what you're fully talking about. First off, Jerry is Alice in Chains much like Eddie is Pearl Jam. However, as you can't have a Mick without Keith, a Pete without Roger, and John without Paul, you can't have a AIC without Layne. His voice says it all, even though Jerry wrote a vast majority of the songs.
However, those guys fucked Layne. Rolling Stone was going to interview them for a cover story and Layne told the rest of the band that all the magazine was going to do was call him a junkie and expose him for his habits and only his habits. In other words, they were going to focus more on his addictions other than their music. They ignored Layne and you know what happened, the article was on how much of a junkie Layne was. So Layne told them to fuck off and didn't play with them for three years...which is when the Unplugged happened. First song of the Unplugged set..."Nutshell," one of the only songs Layne wrote. What is the song about...
"We chase misprinted lies
We face the path of time
And yet I fight
And yet I fight
This battle all alone
No one to cry to
No place to call home
Oooh...Oooh...
Oooh...Oooh...
My gift of self is raped
My privacy is raked
And yet I find
And yet I find
Repeating in my head
If I can't be my own
I'd feel better dead
Oooh...Oooh...
Oooh...Oooh..."
how the band fuckin' exposed him even when he told them not too. So you can say that Jerry was AIC, which to an extent he was, but he was greedy then just like he is now.
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However, those guys fucked Layne. Rolling Stone was going to interview them for a cover story and Layne told the rest of the band that all the magazine was going to do was call him a junkie and expose him for his habits and only his habits. In other words, they were going to focus more on his addictions other than their music. They ignored Layne and you know what happened, the article was on how much of a junkie Layne was. So Layne told them to fuck off and didn't play with them for three years...which is when the Unplugged happened. First song of the Unplugged set..."Nutshell," one of the only songs Layne wrote. What is the song about...
there was not 3 years between the Rolling Stone story and the Unplugged show. in fact, I don't even think there was 1 year in between. he didn't play with them because he was mad, he didn't play with them because he was too fucked up. the band fucked Layne? bullshit. Layne fucked the band. they gave him the room to do whatever he needed to do. and when he died, they waited years out of respect to do something else. he ruined the best musical years of their lives. and as far as I've always heard, Jerry too had a major heroin and/or cocaine addiction, so it's not really like he could've fixed Layne's problems for him.
What I don't understand is, why are all of these early 90s bands getting back together all of a sudden? Rage Against The Machine, Smashing Pumpkins, now AIC...what gives?
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What I don't understand is, why are all of these early 90s bands getting back together all of a sudden? Rage Against The Machine, Smashing Pumpkins, now AIC...what gives?
I've said it before on this board and I'll say it again - the only people whom have a problem with this are the ones who haven't seen this band perform
this is a good point. i respect everyone's opinion on this and can see both sides, honestly. but having been to see AIC 4 times in the past year, I can tell you that i have not heard or spoken to a single person that was not blown away by how good the band sounds with william. he is a great performer, stays true to layne's delivery, but still doesn't come off as a copycat at all. his persona and sound fit this band perfectly.
i, for one, would buy anything that AIC chooses to release. and i'd call it Alice In Chains without hesitation. like others have said, Sabbath, Floyd, AC/DC, and plenty of other bands (including the Rolling Stones, when Brian Jones died) have gone on to continued success and relevancy, even after a founding member has left the band or passed away.
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I think it's great that the boys are back into making music!!! Even though Layne was the man IMO, Jerry had a pretty hefty portion in the career of AIC, and still does.
Sean Kinney said that the band is set for money, they don't need money anymore.
I know this is a strange thought but maybe they love the songs they wrote and they wanted to play of them for there fans again.
And if they were really doing it for the money don't you think they would've done it sooner, and don't you think they wouldn't even bother to make a new record, If they just wanted to make a lot of money they could do that by just touring.
"If my thoughts, dreams, could be seen, they'd probably put my head, in a guillotine, but it's alright ma, it's life and life only."
Comments
I think if Jerry, Mike and Sean wanted to continue on as a 3-piece and call it Alice in Chains, it would be cool. Jerry's solo stuff was always amazing and he's a pretty good singer in his own right (ie., Heaven Beside You). It's just the fact that they're literally replacing Layne with this new guy that burns me a little.
Still can't wait to hear it, though.
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
At least Creed had the decency to change their name after they booted Scott Stapp.
Of course, by that point the Creed name was more of a liability than a help.
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
You say Layne was AIC for you, but without Jerry and the others there wouldn't have been any songs for him to sing, so your logic is a tad skewed. You might have enjoyed his contribution most, but one listen to Degradation Trip proves that Jerry was the most pivotal member in terms of creating that sound.
How would they 'ruin' the legacy anyway? Did Pearl Jam ruin their legacy by releasing (insert your least favourite album name here - in my view Riot Act)? I think not.
I understand why people get so attached to music, and in the case of AIC, the nature of Layne's death was so tragic. But for me, music is at its best when we're not throwing labels at it, and it just is what it is - it either moves you or it doesn't. You can sit there contemplating the moral choice in keeping the name, or you can forget all that bull shit, which ultimately means nothing, and concentrate on the music.
The whole recording under the same name thing, like somebody else said, comes down to practicality. If the band want to keep performing their back catalog live they need to keep the same name, but obviously they can't just be touring the same material forever, they need some new tunes. So if they've found someone they have a good chemistry with it totally makes sense to record with that person. Try looking at it as a new phase. There's nothing to say that if Layne were still around, that they wouldn't have put out a below par album, it happens to the best bands, no big deal. I know I'll catch some flack for this, but I don't think the self-titled record was on par with Dirt or Jar Of Flies, but that alone isn't suddenly going to tarnish my views of those records.
Mr. DuVall (sp?) sounds excellent on the songs i've heard him cover. A lot like Layne, but its not just a imitation. Just give them a chance first.
Jerry started it, and if he says it's AIC, then it's AIC.
I will buy the album the day it comes out and if they come around here, I'll be at the show. they've played here twice in the past year...once full on and once acoustic. I went to full on show and it was better than any of the 3 PJ shows I've been to. if they can put on a better show than PJ with a "replacement singer", then that's pretty damn good imo.
I liked both Jerry's solo albums, and you could definitely tell Jerry Cantrell was the man at the wheel. but I hope this album will be more AIC-esque with more vocal harmonies and heavier guitar parts. "Degradation Trip" was definitely more AIC-esque, and I liked "Boggy Depot" but it was definitely more "AIC lite". I think Duvall is a very talented singer and guitarist and will add a whole new dimension to AIC.
if you're a naysayer, please don't buy the album or go to the shows and just fuck off.
Well said. AIC is not AIC w/out Layne, period. Just like Blind Melon is not Blind Melon without Shannon. I searched for "Soup" on Youtube the other day & found that asshat new singer singing it with the guys. Fucking sickening.
See These Bones
If they release a new album...i will buy it regardless, but my expectations will be low.
RIP Layne...you were a genius.
And I agree, Layne was not AIC. AIC was a very democratic band like Pearl Jam. He was a significant loss for sure, but not an irrecoverable one.
Take Black Sabbath. For me black sabbath ended when Ozzy left. I don't like anything after that. for some people AIC will be the same and that is cool.
Now there are people out there ( i personally think they are strange people
anyway that aside i'm really excited to hear the new stuff. Jerry's last album degradation trip was pretty rockin. He must have some bad ass riffs saved up from over the past 5 years or so that he has not put out orginal material.
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Apparently all music debate should cease when a war is going on, but anyway...
I saw the new incarnation live and it just didn't work for me. DuVall was grinning and preening around the stage while singing someone else's intensely bleak and personal lyrics. Just didn't sit right.
Layne Staley was a frontman who transcended the band. In modern terms, I also couldn't accept Pearl Jam without Eddie or Tool without Maynard. Pink Floyd is a bad example because Syd was only on 1+ album. Not much into AC/DC, so I'll leave it to those fans to debate the merits of Brian Johnson. As for Sabbath...I'm an Ozzy guy all the way.
If I hear a decent song with DuVall, I guess I'll try to support it in a Dio-era Sabbath kinda way, but I don't have high hopes (based on the live show I witnessed). The guys can do whatever they want, but it's just not Alice In Chains to me.
Just one man's opinion...
This is my opinion, but Layne's struggles hindered the band. Imagine what they would be if Layne turned everything around and became sober? They would be bigger Rock Gods than they already are.
I watched a DVD the other day of a show (can't remember which one) where Layne was completely out of his mind. It was painful to watch.
William is not Layne, I will give everyone that. And AIC's first go around (06 shows) with Will was okay, not stellar (seemed Will was uncomfortable). I saw them in Sept at the Gorge, and they fucking rocked.
cause frankly, the music hasn't changed for me.
EDIT: oh, and Bon Scott was way better than Brian Johnson.
Could they have been more prolific if Layne had cleaned up? Absolutely. But when I think of Alice In Chains, it's Layne's vocals and presence that immediately jump to mind. I feel comfortable saying that this is the case for a great number of fans.
I base my "transcendant" comment on this and also by comparing AIC with Layne and his work in Mad Season vs. Jerry's solo material, Jerry's solo live shows, and current AIC live shows.
However, those guys fucked Layne. Rolling Stone was going to interview them for a cover story and Layne told the rest of the band that all the magazine was going to do was call him a junkie and expose him for his habits and only his habits. In other words, they were going to focus more on his addictions other than their music. They ignored Layne and you know what happened, the article was on how much of a junkie Layne was. So Layne told them to fuck off and didn't play with them for three years...which is when the Unplugged happened. First song of the Unplugged set..."Nutshell," one of the only songs Layne wrote. What is the song about...
"We chase misprinted lies
We face the path of time
And yet I fight
And yet I fight
This battle all alone
No one to cry to
No place to call home
Oooh...Oooh...
Oooh...Oooh...
My gift of self is raped
My privacy is raked
And yet I find
And yet I find
Repeating in my head
If I can't be my own
I'd feel better dead
Oooh...Oooh...
Oooh...Oooh..."
how the band fuckin' exposed him even when he told them not too. So you can say that Jerry was AIC, which to an extent he was, but he was greedy then just like he is now.
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2016: Fort Lauderdale, Hampton, Philly II, Chicago II
there was not 3 years between the Rolling Stone story and the Unplugged show. in fact, I don't even think there was 1 year in between. he didn't play with them because he was mad, he didn't play with them because he was too fucked up. the band fucked Layne? bullshit. Layne fucked the band. they gave him the room to do whatever he needed to do. and when he died, they waited years out of respect to do something else. he ruined the best musical years of their lives. and as far as I've always heard, Jerry too had a major heroin and/or cocaine addiction, so it's not really like he could've fixed Layne's problems for him.
$$$$
Can you blame them?
this is a good point. i respect everyone's opinion on this and can see both sides, honestly. but having been to see AIC 4 times in the past year, I can tell you that i have not heard or spoken to a single person that was not blown away by how good the band sounds with william. he is a great performer, stays true to layne's delivery, but still doesn't come off as a copycat at all. his persona and sound fit this band perfectly.
i, for one, would buy anything that AIC chooses to release. and i'd call it Alice In Chains without hesitation. like others have said, Sabbath, Floyd, AC/DC, and plenty of other bands (including the Rolling Stones, when Brian Jones died) have gone on to continued success and relevancy, even after a founding member has left the band or passed away.
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Sean Kinney said that the band is set for money, they don't need money anymore.
I know this is a strange thought but maybe they love the songs they wrote and they wanted to play of them for there fans again.
And if they were really doing it for the money don't you think they would've done it sooner, and don't you think they wouldn't even bother to make a new record, If they just wanted to make a lot of money they could do that by just touring.