What a sellout!!!

Pearls&Stones

Is anyone else sick of the overused, lost all meaning term "sellout?" Anytime a musician does anything, a certain portion of the population calls them a "sellout."

If an artist follows a successful record with a similar one, they are a sellout because they only stuck with what sold well. But if they try something new, they are a sellout for doing that.

Doing videos, appearing on American Idol, letting video game companies use your song, playing on talk shows....that isn't selling out. That is the world we live in today. If I made a record, I'd want to be sure people heard it. I'd hate for that work to go to waste. And I know damn well that FM radio and MTV can't be counted on to get the songs out there.

A perfect example is Metallica, I hate Metallica because I think they are douchebags and the only likable member (Jason Newstead) left because he thought they were douchebags too, Even though I hate them, I have to laugh when people call them sellouts. I would never expect a 45 year old James Hetfield to be as angry as he was at 22. Times change, artists grow up and want to try new things. It doesn't make them a sellout.

Just because a few artists like to keep their "integrity" by not "selling out to the man" when they release a record, it doesn't mean that the other artists are some kind of whore.

I don't think Gwen Stefani is a sellout for giving advice for the kids on American Idol anymore than I think the Rolling Stones sold out for doing Ed Sullivan's show.

People really need to lighten up.

pearljam0000

Well said.

South of Seattle

This almost should be made into a sticky.

Lifted

I have to agree with most of what you said, but i think there is a line, and some musicians do sell out as far as musical integrity. Some of these people are really fake and live their life by a certain image that they were molded into. It's not real and it's almost like they are acting all the time. Then you got them selling you sprite and shit. i personally think if you want your music to be taken seriously you shouldn't be selling stuff on tv, and doin sitcoms and shit like that. It's not that there is anything wrong with those buisnesses it's just that it takes away from the music. For example it's hard to say that i wouldn't like pearl jam if ed was doing burger king commercials and cameo appearances on everybody loves raymond, because the music would be the same. But imagine that, don't you think you'd have a different image of the band in your mind when you listened to them if that was the case. And don't you think in a way it could really change the way you heard the music......Let the athletes and actors do the commercials

somebodyelsessky2020

yeah and some of those same people would sell their own mother for the right price

i like matt.c

if the music is good and they are not doing anything that is really bad like selling their mothers for huge amounts then thats all that matters. i might not agree on how they are promoting their music but thats my problem. i wouldn't stop listening to someone for selling out or not being underground and scene or whatever. the songs don't change.

soulsinging

bill hicks has a great rant about how if you ever do a commercial you are automatically off the artistic roll call. it's pretty funny.

but i agree with this post. it's a meaningless term really and thrown around way too easily. i especially loathe people who call u2 sellouts for the ipod thing... u2 didnt take any money for that commercial, they just liked the product and thought digital music was the wave of the future (they were right) and might help crack the record industry's stranglehood on music. i dont think metallica are sellouts even though i hate them and think they suck. im sorry, but if i was in a band and gateway offered me a couple million bucks to put my song in a commercial, id do it in a heartbeat. you're talking about setting yourself up for the next few years financially (if you dont get into the bullshit hip hop lifestyle) so you can make music without worrying where dinner is coming from next.

Dylan Stone

Pearls&Stones wrote:

People really need to lighten up.

Agreed!!

lars

Chris Cornell is such a sellout! and so is your thread.

chimpat

Pearls&Stones wrote:

Is anyone else sick of the overused, lost all meaning term "sellout?" Anytime a musician does anything, a certain portion of the population calls them a "sellout."

If an artist follows a successful record with a similar one, they are a sellout because they only stuck with what sold well. But if they try something new, they are a sellout for doing that.

Doing videos, appearing on American Idol, letting video game companies use your song, playing on talk shows....that isn't selling out. That is the world we live in today. If I made a record, I'd want to be sure people heard it. I'd hate for that work to go to waste. And I know damn well that FM radio and MTV can't be counted on to get the songs out there.

A perfect example is Metallica, I hate Metallica because I think they are douchebags and the only likable member (Jason Newstead) left because he thought they were douchebags too, Even though I hate them, I have to laugh when people call them sellouts. I would never expect a 45 year old James Hetfield to be as angry as he was at 22. Times change, artists grow up and want to try new things. It doesn't make them a sellout.

Just because a few artists like to keep their "integrity" by not "selling out to the man" when they release a record, it doesn't mean that the other artists are some kind of whore.

I don't think Gwen Stefani is a sellout for giving advice for the kids on American Idol anymore than I think the Rolling Stones sold out for doing Ed Sullivan's show.

People really need to lighten up.

Well said, "Sellout" is just a ridiculous term in my opinion.

soulsinging

lars wrote:

Chris Cornell is such a sellout! and so is your thread.

ill agree that posing for fashion ads to make money hawking jeans is REALLY pushing the limits of acceptable.

harrymanback

soulsinging wrote:

but i agree with this post. it's a meaningless term really and thrown around way too easily. i especially loathe people who call u2 sellouts for the ipod thing... u2 didnt take any money for that commercial, they just liked the product and thought digital music was the wave of the future (they were right) and might help crack the record industry's stranglehood on music. .

i have no inside info about the u2, iPod contract, but if the above was the case, i am sure they had no problem taking the residuals from the u2 ipods that were loaded with their collection.

true definition of a sellout is one who comprimised themselves for popularity (or $)... we will never know for sure who sold out since one will never say they did it for the money, but jewel came pretty close to admitting it a couple years ago.


as for metallica, they sold out the moment they latched onto bob rock ... he was obviously hired to take the band in a new, more mainstream direction, and like most sellouts, it worked. it was a direction that was not like by hardcore fans, but it sold more records because it was targeted to a larger population. rock also helped my boys from OLP sell out.

"All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit, And you bought one. "

Two Birds

This "notes" for you! Well said. Uncle Neil.

darthvedder88

Great thread. Whoever started this thread has balls!!!

hippiemom

soulsinging wrote:

bill hicks has a great rant about how if you ever do a commercial you are automatically off the artistic roll call. it's pretty funny.

""You do a commercial, you're off the artistic roll call forever, end of story. You're another corporate fucking shill, another whore at the capitalist gang-bang. If you do a commercial everything you say is suspect and every word that comes out of your mouth is now like a turd falling into my drink."

I don't think anyone has summed it up better than Tom Waits though:

"Songs carry emotional information and some transport us back to a poignant time, place or event in our lives. It's no wonder a corporation would want to hitch a ride on the spell these songs cast and encourage you to buy soft drinks, underwear or automobiles while you're in the trance. Artists who take money for ads poison and pervert their songs. It reduces them to the level of a jingle, a word that describes the sound of change in your pocket, which is what your songs become. Remember, when you sell your songs for commercials, you are selling your audience as well.

When I was a kid, if I saw an artist I admired doing a commercial, I'd think, "Too bad, he must really need the money." But now it's so pervasive. It's a virus. Artists are lining up to do ads. The money and exposure are too tantalizing for most artists to decline. Corporations are hoping to hijack a culture's memories for their product. They want an artist's audience, credibility, good will and all the energy the songs have gathered as well as given over the years. They suck the life and meaning from the songs and impregnate them with promises of a better life with their product."

lowlight10

soulsinging wrote:

ill agree that posing for fashion ads to make money hawking jeans is REALLY pushing the limits of acceptable.

wait, what? two posts ago you wrote that the term is overused, and now youre saying that Cornell is pushing the limits?

what limits?

who set these limits, you?

he's a person, maybe he's always wanted to model, maybe he's really into fashion, maybe he really likes the jeans or the designer. why is that "pushing the limits of acceptable"?

what if ed decides to do an ad for his favorite wine or those notebooks he writes in? is he then "pushing the limits"?

i like metallica. they might have some ridiculous ideas, but i dig some of their music. U2 did an ad for a product they liked and to promote their album, thats fine. not everyone can do the zero-promotion thing PJ did for a while and survive. its not the norm. labels want sales, and most bands need labels/distributors.

and gwen sucked LONG before she appeared on american idol.

lowlight10

also, has anyone seen the commercial for MLB2K7 or something, the video game? its on ESPN in the mornings, and features Nirvana's Breed. chew on that.

aNiMaL

As a kid I first knew the song "Good Vibrations" as the Orange Crush song. When I heard The Beach Boys version I honestly originally thought they stole or took the song from Orange Crush. What an idiot.

soulsinging

lowlight10 wrote:

wait, what? two posts ago you wrote that the term is overused, and now youre saying that Cornell is pushing the limits?

what limits?

who set these limits, you?

he's a person, maybe he's always wanted to model, maybe he's really into fashion, maybe he really likes the jeans or the designer. why is that "pushing the limits of acceptable"?

what if ed decides to do an ad for his favorite wine or those notebooks he writes in? is he then "pushing the limits"?

i like metallica. they might have some ridiculous ideas, but i dig some of their music. U2 did an ad for a product they liked and to promote their album, thats fine. not everyone can do the zero-promotion thing PJ did for a while and survive. its not the norm. labels want sales, and most bands need labels/distributors.

and gwen sucked LONG before she appeared on american idol.

yes, i decide what the line is

i know nothing about this gwen think. ive hated her for ages so i dont care what she does. metallica can do what they want. u2 did not sell out. if ed wants to praise his wine, it's his prerogative.

my issue with cornell and modelling is the issue i have with lenny kravitz. maybe he does love modeling (weird) or maybe he does just love the jeans. i dont know. but i feel like they just offered him money and he wanted to be a sex symbol. and that's why i hated lenny kravitz. he got more press for his clothes and style and sex appeal than he ever got for his music. and that annoys me, art is about the art, music is about the music. it should not be about how hot you look on the cover of gq. so i just dont like the thought of cornell modeling. it pushes the boundaries of good taste as far as im concerned. maybe he does just love the jeans and im wrong. it's happened before.

hailhail82

Pearls&Stones wrote:

Is anyone else sick of the overused, lost all meaning term "sellout?"

Welcome to 1985.
Who cares? It's a value judgement. People who don't think music or artists should be sold to a corporation have different values than people who think wherever the music is played is simply more exposure. They both make good points.

lowlight10

soulsinging wrote:

yes, i decide what the line is

i know nothing about this gwen think. ive hated her for ages so i dont care what she does. metallica can do what they want. u2 did not sell out. if ed wants to praise his wine, it's his prerogative.

my issue with cornell and modelling is the issue i have with lenny kravitz. maybe he does love modeling (weird) or maybe he does just love the jeans. i dont know. but i feel like they just offered him money and he wanted to be a sex symbol. and that's why i hated lenny kravitz. he got more press for his clothes and style and sex appeal than he ever got for his music. and that annoys me, art is about the art, music is about the music. it should not be about how hot you look on the cover of gq. so i just dont like the thought of cornell modeling. it pushes the boundaries of good taste as far as im concerned. maybe he does just love the jeans and im wrong. it's happened before.

dude, if i looked like cornell, i'd be modeling too. and if i was in the shape that kravitz is in, i'd probably do most videos with my shirt off. and i'm a very straight guy.

we have to remember that these people dont create the pedestal that the media and fans put them on. fans, especially on this board, are always freakin out about seeing mike on the street or planning on how they can meet the band. they're just people. theyre very talented artists, but still human. they have tastes, desires, habits, just like you and me. the ridiculous expectations and limits that you put on them, in my eyes, is a reflection on you, not them.

norm

aNiMaL wrote:

As a kid I first knew the song "Good Vibrations" as the Orange Crush song. When I heard The Beach Boys version I honestly originally thought they stole or took the song from Orange Crush. What an idiot.

See right there is the problem I have with artists allowing there music to be used in commercials. And you're not an idiot. Why would you have known any different. They should put the name of the song and the artist on the ads that use popular songs like on MTV (well when they used to show videos).

And Gwen hasn't sold out - she's gone fuckin' nuts. :(

angryyoungman

i love the term "sellout" when used in the right way. . .it is overused though. . .and gwen stefani was a sellout long before her appearance on american idol

angryyoungman

when you are an artist and you do something that is questionable artistically speaking you should be called out on it. . .and that goes for bands i like too. (ex. the who, who've lost alot of credibility in my book with all the commercials and tv show jingles. REALLY lame. im still a fan though, some of the songs loss there original meaning though when you hear them constantly to sell something)

hippiemom

angryyoungman wrote:

when you are an artist and you do something that is questionable artistically speaking you should be called out on it. . .and that goes for bands i like too. (ex. the who, who've lost alot of credibility in my book with all the commercials and tv show jingles. REALLY lame. im still a fan though, some of the songs loss there original meaning though when you hear them constantly to sell something)

For a while there, I could hardly stand to listen to The Who or Led Zeppelin anymore. Then I stopped watching tv, and now I can enjoy them again

norm

hippiemom wrote:

For a while there, I could hardly stand to listen to The Who or Led Zeppelin anymore. Then I stopped watching tv, and now I can enjoy them again

Especially LZ. It's gonna take a while before I stop associating them with a fucking Cadillac. :(

libragirl

I agree with you..people need to lighten up.

run_into_the_rain

I only read the first line of the origonal post but I know where you are coming
from. I was just thinking about posting about this. "sellout" is the most rediculous term in the industry. Every time a band changes its sound or image or goes mainstream, they are labeled as this. such bullshit

NickyNooch

I normally would have your back in this conversation, but then I'm an old AFI fan.

They sold out.

Any old school AFI fan knows exactly what I'm talking about. The dramatic change from NITRO to major label, definately made them take their music in a terrible direction.

My point being, there are cases where a band selling out is simply fact. They sold their musical integrity to hot topic :(

lars

darthvedder88 wrote:

Great thread. Whoever started this thread has balls!!!

Brave yet stupid

libragirl

yeah i dunno about that...their is only so far you could get with a small record label. If your looking to get more exposure you need to major one. It's unfortunate but it seems to be the case. Im an AFI fan...and I really don't see how them moving on to dreamworks matters. Although AOD is still my fav. album...they've yet to really make that one breakout one...imo