Vitalogy Vs The Bends

soulsinging

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I reallllllllllly disagree with you on this. Yes, Kid A and HTTT were both depressing, but they had completely different moods to them. Damn man have you listened to HTTT?

See that's what it appears to be for you, and as far as the media goes that's probably true. I'm one of those people who've made the connection I was talking about with the music.. I "clicked" with it. you see farting on a keyboard I see some very stripped down electronic songs, a few of which were fucking terrific. It would be the same way if Eddie came out with a bunch of simple acoustic/ukelele songs.

i have listened to hail to the thief. it is different, but not strikingly so. if we're sticking with the comparisons... the difference between httt and kid a is less dramatic than yield to binaural or riot act to avacado i think.

you say songs... i dont consider farting on a keyboard a song. you mentioned thom noodling in the studio, just fucking around. to me that isn't really a song so much. and it might be interesting. but to say it's an intense and awe-inspiring song tells me you're either referring to the few brilliant songs you mentioned, or down-playing what he actually released. pry to seems to be the band just messing around and it's enjoyable and interesting but i dont think anyone would claim it's their finest hour. this is what i dont like about radiohead (more so their fans i guess)... they will try to tell me such little off the cuff experiments are all GENIUS and rank with the BEST music of all time. that's so bogus. now if you were trying to tell me optimistic or knives out or everything in its right place is some of the best stuff released recently, i might be able to see eye to eye with you there. they're interesting, complex, and off the wall songs. i like it. but when radiohead fans try to tell me treefingers is the peer of everything the beatles, or pearl jam, or whoever... that's when i draw the line and tell you to pass the lsd my way

Pearl Jam and toast

soulsinging wrote:

i have listened to hail to the thief. it is different, but not strikingly so. if we're sticking with the comparisons... the difference between httt and kid a is less dramatic than yield to binaural or riot act to avacado i think.

Definetly.

song tells me you're either referring to the few brilliant songs you mentioned, or down-playing what he actually released.

I was doing both

bryanfury

chiefojibwa wrote:

yeah, my mom used to sing me "paranoid android" to lull me to sleep.

my mom used electioneering...

cc10106

both are fucking amazing records. apples and oranges, really.

bryanfury

cc10106 wrote:

both are fucking amazing records. apples and oranges, really.

exactly! or chicken wings / pizza

Tricsathabar

Radiohead are probably the only band around today with any kind of notoriety that has a severe limited array of memorable songs. I mean that in the best possible way.

Ah...Creep, High and Dry, Street Spirit, Karma police...not many more. And I would only say that Karma Police is the pick of everything that they have done.

That said I quite like them. But their songs just blend into one another these days.

InHiding80

Bends - Vitalogy is good but I hated Bugs and Foxymop.

digster

soulsinging wrote:

i have listened to hail to the thief. it is different, but not strikingly so. if we're sticking with the comparisons... the difference between httt and kid a is less dramatic than yield to binaural or riot act to avacado i think.

you say songs... i dont consider farting on a keyboard a song. you mentioned thom noodling in the studio, just fucking around. to me that isn't really a song so much. and it might be interesting. but to say it's an intense and awe-inspiring song tells me you're either referring to the few brilliant songs you mentioned, or down-playing what he actually released. pry to seems to be the band just messing around and it's enjoyable and interesting but i dont think anyone would claim it's their finest hour. this is what i dont like about radiohead (more so their fans i guess)... they will try to tell me such little off the cuff experiments are all GENIUS and rank with the BEST music of all time. that's so bogus. now if you were trying to tell me optimistic or knives out or everything in its right place is some of the best stuff released recently, i might be able to see eye to eye with you there. they're interesting, complex, and off the wall songs. i like it. but when radiohead fans try to tell me treefingers is the peer of everything the beatles, or pearl jam, or whoever... that's when i draw the line and tell you to pass the lsd my way

your first sentence I think is way off. I mean, taking away Pearl Jam's strengths for a second, is there honestly that much of a difference between Binaural and Riot Act? I mean, from Save You to God's Dice, Thin Air to Thumbing My Way...we're not talking a gigantic leap here. I think on both of those albums, the songs are incredible. Insignificance is one of PJ's finest. They're just undeniably cut from the same cloth, which is fine to a degree. A band that never changes is questionable, but a complete musical makeover in the sense that David Bowie or Neil Young excelled has never been what they do. Experimentation with no quality won't go far, but Radiohead certainly has both in spades.

Second, I'd really like to see where these masses of Radiohead fans are proclaiming Treefingers as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it better than Foxy Mop? Sure; for one, it's about thirteen minutes shorter, accomplishes what it's doing better in the context of the album. But you're correct in that two of Radiohead's many high points come before and after Treefingers.

So where exactly in those many high points we've talked about (such as Optimistic, How to Disappear Completely, Everything in it's Right Place, National Anthem, Motion Picture Soundtrack, In Limbo, Morning Bell, Idioteque, which is practically all of Kid A anyway) is Thom "farting into a keyboard"? I guess I think there's alot of potential in a studio as opposed to just setting up an amp and miking it? It's one way of doing things; it's certainly not the only way. And if that's as you put it farting into a keyboard, then it's the way to go.

walkthamile

digster wrote:

Second, I'd really like to see where these masses of Radiohead fans are proclaiming Treefingers as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it better than Foxy Mop? Sure; for one, it's about thirteen minutes shorter, accomplishes what it's doing better in the context of the album.

Wrong!

Pearl Jam and toast

walkthamile wrote:

Wrong!

No, actually what he said was dead on.

So what, treefingers is a bunch of nothing and keyboard gargling, it's a nice transition at least. Stupid Mop isn't really anything... I like it.. I think it's a strange but really cool way to end the album,... but Treefingers serves its purpose flawlessly. Vitalogy would still be Vitalogy without Stupid Mop.

walkthamile

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

No, actually what he said was dead on.

So what, treefingers is a bunch of nothing and keyboard gargling, it's a nice transition at least. Stupid Mop isn't really anything... I like it.. I think it's a strange but really cool way to end the album,... but Treefingers serves its purpose flawlessly. Vitalogy would still be Vitalogy without Stupid Mop.

Wrong!

Treefingers was taken directly from nature channel...Foxy Mop is an original piece of work...A work of ART..

catefrances

... the bends

digster

walkthamile wrote:

Wrong!

I think I'm right, but we haven't agreed on much in this thread. Why start now?

soulsinging

digster wrote:

your first sentence I think is way off. I mean, taking away Pearl Jam's strengths for a second, is there honestly that much of a difference between Binaural and Riot Act? I mean, from Save You to God's Dice, Thin Air to Thumbing My Way...we're not talking a gigantic leap here. I think on both of those albums, the songs are incredible. Insignificance is one of PJ's finest. They're just undeniably cut from the same cloth, which is fine to a degree. A band that never changes is questionable, but a complete musical makeover in the sense that David Bowie or Neil Young excelled has never been what they do. Experimentation with no quality won't go far, but Radiohead certainly has both in spades.

you're not actually reading a word ive said are you? my point is there is NOT a huge leap from binaural to riot act. my other point is that there is NOT a huge leap from kid a to amnesiac to hail to the thief either. my point is you are dead wrong about radiohead making stunningly different albums EVERY time. they're not. yeah, they made a dramatic shift from ok computer to kid a, but they haven't changed at all since, just as pj hasn't really either. they're just doing subtle exploration of the same sound they started 3 albums ago.

digster wrote:

Second, I'd really like to see where these masses of Radiohead fans are proclaiming Treefingers as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it better than Foxy Mop? Sure; for one, it's about thirteen minutes shorter, accomplishes what it's doing better in the context of the album. But you're correct in that two of Radiohead's many high points come before and after Treefingers.

So where exactly in those many high points we've talked about (such as Optimistic, How to Disappear Completely, Everything in it's Right Place, National Anthem, Motion Picture Soundtrack, In Limbo, Morning Bell, Idioteque, which is practically all of Kid A anyway) is Thom "farting into a keyboard"? I guess I think there's alot of potential in a studio as opposed to just setting up an amp and miking it? It's one way of doing things; it's certainly not the only way. And if that's as you put it farting into a keyboard, then it's the way to go.

pj and toast has been saying thom noodling on a keyboard is genius and intense. there are people out there who deny that radiohead can do any wrong, who refuse to admit that treefingers is a piece of crap and a worthless track, just as you lambast foxy mop for being. radiohead has had moments over the last few albums, but they are getting fewer and farther between. it's like the pj fans desperately insisting riot act was a great album for the ages, it's kinda pathetic. and even the best moments on amnesiac don't hold a candle to the high points of the bends or ok computer. and i am convinced beyond any doubt that if you put any one of those songs mentioned on the bends, we'd all be talking about the same song as being the throwaway experimental track you describe foxy mop as. their work now is interesting and at times very good, but nowhere near the heights they've reached.

soulsinging

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

No, actually what he said was dead on.

So what, treefingers is a bunch of nothing and keyboard gargling, it's a nice transition at least. Stupid Mop isn't really anything... I like it.. I think it's a strange but really cool way to end the album,... but Treefingers serves its purpose flawlessly. Vitalogy would still be Vitalogy without Stupid Mop.

kid a would still be kid a without treefingers. it would be a better album. and i might have actually listened to the whole thing and not be annoyed by having to reach for the skip button every time i play the album becos of that track.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

I'd have to take Vitalogy over The Bends, but I really don't think it's Pearl Jam's best album. I still don't think any subsequent album compares to Ten or Vs. I know they changed their style with Vitalogy, and maybe again with Yield, but I still don't think those match up. Pearl Jam is just not a studio band, and that's what I like about them. Their mastery is in the live performance, not in the studio. It's always been that way. And the songs in Ten and Vs. capture that aspect of the band I think.

Radiohead is the opposite, although I don't think they're as incredible in the studio as their fanbase makes them out to be.

capybaralet

MapleTea wrote:

No Code beats the shit out of OK Computer...one day the rock world will recognise this...

I agree. Several PJ albums are as strong conceptually as radiohead's, and the music is generally better. No Code, Binarual, Vitalogy and maybe Yield are all practically concept albums.

OK Computer specifically has 5 really good songs, IMO:
Paranoid Android, Subteranean Homesick Alien, Exit Music (for a film), Lucky and The Tourist. The rest of them have song interesting sounds and make for good conceptual awesomeness, but really aren't that great.

Vitalogy is a very good comparison to this, IMO: The songs are generally great, exceptions being (IMO) the two "man"s, satans bed and whipping, and the filler. But the mans are just annoying to me; satans bed and whipping are still quality, even if they aren't amazing, and the filler is important to the albumy-ness.

vs. the bends, I pick Vitalogy. Don't get me wrong, the bends is great. But it's also got a few less than great songs on it, I think (I don't actually know the track names, but all the major-y songs, exception of Bones aren't very good)

In general, radiohead writes good minor key songs and less good major key songs. Or maybe I should just say "sad" and "happy" since I haven't worked out the keys.


edit: btw, in response to poster above... HTTT is the best radiohead album ever.

bryanfury

capybaralet wrote:

I agree. Several PJ albums are as strong conceptually as radiohead's, and the music is generally better. No Code, Binarual, Vitalogy and maybe Yield are all practically concept albums.

OK Computer specifically has 5 really good songs, IMO:
Paranoid Android, Subteranean Homesick Alien, Exit Music (for a film), Lucky and The Tourist. The rest of them have song interesting sounds and make for good conceptual awesomeness, but really aren't that great.

Vitalogy is a very good comparison to this, IMO: The songs are generally great, exceptions being (IMO) the two "man"s, satans bed and whipping, and the filler. But the mans are just annoying to me; satans bed and whipping are still quality, even if they aren't amazing, and the filler is important to the albumy-ness.

vs. the bends, I pick Vitalogy. Don't get me wrong, the bends is great. But it's also got a few less than great songs on it, I think (I don't actually know the track names, but all the major-y songs, exception of Bones aren't very good)

In general, radiohead writes good minor key songs and less good major key songs. Or maybe I should just say "sad" and "happy" since I haven't worked out the keys.


edit: btw, in response to poster above... HTTT is the best radiohead album ever.

i'd have to say airbag, let down, karma police, no surprises & climbing the walls are all great as well. let down has to be one of their best all time tunes (IMO of course). that leaves electioneering, which i personally love, but not sure if its "great".

walkthamile

MapleTea wrote:

No Code beats the shit out of OK Computer...one day the rock world will recognise this...

Amen!...IMO

Pearl Jam and toast

capybaralet wrote:

I agree. Several PJ albums are as strong conceptually as radiohead's, and the music is generally better. No Code, Binarual, Vitalogy and maybe Yield are all practically concept albums.

OK Computer specifically has 5 really good songs, IMO:
Paranoid Android, Subteranean Homesick Alien, Exit Music (for a film), Lucky and The Tourist. The rest of them have song interesting sounds and make for good conceptual awesomeness, but really aren't that great.

Vitalogy is a very good comparison to this, IMO: The songs are generally great, exceptions being (IMO) the two "man"s, satans bed and whipping, and the filler. But the mans are just annoying to me; satans bed and whipping are still quality, even if they aren't amazing, and the filler is important to the albumy-ness.

vs. the bends, I pick Vitalogy. Don't get me wrong, the bends is great. But it's also got a few less than great songs on it, I think (I don't actually know the track names, but all the major-y songs, exception of Bones aren't very good)

In general, radiohead writes good minor key songs and less good major key songs. Or maybe I should just say "sad" and "happy" since I haven't worked out the keys.


edit: btw, in response to poster above... HTTT is the best radiohead album ever.

Except for the last part I pretty much disagree with everything you said.