the Beatles and Led Zep have only 1 thing in common.
Both were larger than life (and is to this very day)
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
That's like saying "someone would have thought of the lightbulb eventually". It's easy to say in hindsight, but if someone was to revolutionise music today the way the Beatles did back then, we'd all make one hell of a hoopla.
I don't think it's the same. There's a clear point in history you can point to concerning the lightbulb, and that's when the first one was constructed. Before then, there were no lightbulbs. There's no evolution involved there. Evolution of thought and design yes, but nothing concrete.
Before The Beatles there was music, and music is constantly evolving. Nobody invents a genre. There are bands that come along and push the boundaries more like The Beatles, but they didn't think up rock n roll. Neither did Elvis or whoever else gets credit for such a ridiculous thing.
I think anyone who says they were a boy band isn't familiar with them beyond the slightest understanding. Listen to Sgt. Pepper and tell me they're a boy band with no talent. Listen to ANY album from 1965 and beyond and tell me you they're a talentless boy band. If you still think that after having a GENUINE understanding of the band, then you're one misguided individual.
Exactly. These people have no sense of the contexts of musical history. The people they cite as innovators are often coming years after the groundwork was done and the great monuments of rock constructed and there for all to copy.
For those of you saying all the beatles did was invent the boyband, you must seriously have so little musical knowledge.
Go and listen to Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, White Album and Abbey Road and post me links of a boyband who has even come close to their inovation.....
Its fine to hate the beatles, of course theyre not to everyones taste but not even beginning to recognise their achievements is just plain ignorance.....
'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
ringo played drums... still does... its still an instrument thanks for glossing over 99.3% of my entire post though :rolleyes:
post a youtube of you drumming Helter Skelter and then we can lol quote];)
Ooohhh Check You
I removed some post to heighten comedic value
But hey comedy is subjective..........get me a webcam a drum kit and a better track and I'll do the deed.Then no one will laugh more than myself I guarantee.But I'm not an ex member of a band who allegedly changed the world.
No apologise,dislike them with a passion which increases with age.But each to their own.
yeah cos "ringo starr lol" is indeed the paradigm of comedy
you can dislike them all you want but what you are doing is bashing them without knowing anything about them... and thats pure ignorance... to dismiss the beatles as a mere boyband is like saying Pearl Jam were just money hungry grunge wannabees formed to quickly latch on to a new fad.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
lots of credit, but the stones are better.....in my humble opinion
better at what?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Watch that hypertension dunkman.Chill out its only opinions.
aye i know, but i thought this thread was about whether the beatles deserve the credit they get bestowed upon them... so saying the Stones were better.. i didnt know at what? at receiving credit? as a band? i presume the dude means he prefers the Stones music, but then thats not what the thread is about in the slightest so i wondered if he meant better at breaking musical barriers than the Beatles.
i mean, i'm not a fan of Hendrix... but at least i realise his place in music... same with Bob Dylan.. does very little for me... but i realise his importance to the music world.
thats what i'd like to hear from the likes of yourself when you say shit about the beatles... fine you dont like their music, but to ridicule them and deny them their importance in musical history is kinda infantile blinkered behaviour... in my opinion
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't know that the Beatles were credited with inventing Rock and Roll, but they are credited with being one of the most influential and innovative Rock bands in history.
Even if you hate them, and that is your choice, it is absurd to try and deny their place in Rock and Roll history.
Musical scholars and people with half a brain anywhere recognize that the Beatles are the greatest or one of the greatest bands ever, no matter how you define it.
To say otherwise is completely ignorant. Stop making a fool of yourselves comparing them to boy bands.
aye i know, but i thought this thread was about whether the beatles deserve the credit they get bestowed upon them... so saying the Stones were better.. i didnt know at what? at receiving credit? as a band? i presume the dude means he prefers the Stones music, but then thats not what the thread is about in the slightest so i wondered if he meant better at breaking musical barriers than the Beatles.
i mean, i'm not a fan of Hendrix... but at least i realise his place in music... same with Bob Dylan.. does very little for me... but i realise his importance to the music world.
thats what i'd like to hear from the likes of yourself when you say shit about the beatles... fine you dont like their music, but to ridicule them and deny them their importance in musical history is kinda infantile blinkered behaviour... in my opinion
Touche to you!
I'm kicking when your down for my own purile entertainment.Not big or clever I know.
Its great for you that you like,know and respect the Beatles.I'll raise my hands in humility I know shit about the band or even want to other than I know 100% I don't like the way they sound,believe me I've tried.Yes I bought albums,yes I sucked them and saw,yes they sucked IMO and were returned.
Yes I know a shit load about Hendrix,yes IMO the man was mightier than god,yes I would probably get all riled up just like you if the thread was about him,but its not,so I could and I did,and you took the bait.
And yes I am a twisted fuck.But peace to you my native man.Go forth and enjoy listening to what ever you enjoy listening to.
Its all about diversity.xxx
“There should be a place where only the things you want to happen, happen”
I'm kicking when your down for my own purile entertainment.Not big or clever I know.
yeah you really had me on the ropes trust me princess... you barely ruffled my feathers.
p.s. Hendrix copied everyone from Townshend to Chuck Berry and even covered Beatles songs... he was in awe of them
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I think a lot of people who didn't grow up listening to the Beatles tend to think of them in their pre-Rubber Soul, "pop" era. For the longest time that's what I associted them with - "Love Me Do", "Eight Days A Week", "She Loves You", etc. It's only when I got older and expanded my musical tastes and knowledge I began to fully appreciate the Beatles. They were the world's biggest pop stars, musical geniuses. That they were able to evolve so greatly in the short amount of time they were together still blows my mind. It's like watching Justin Timberlake complete his transformation to the world's greatest rock star. While the Beatles aren't my favorite band, not really even one of my several most favorites, I'd be foolish to deny their place as the greatest and most influential band in music history.
yeah you really had me on the ropes trust me princess... you barely ruffled my feathers.
p.s. Hendrix copied everyone from Townshend to Chuck Berry and even covered Beatles songs... he was in awe of them
Hendrix never copied these people in the merely plagiaristic sense. He learnt their licks and did something completely new with them. He used feedback and guitar smashing but made beautiful sonic shapes with autodestruction, whereas Townshend's smashups were a horrible fucking racket. Jimi absorbed the musical vocabulary of Chuch Berry and extended upon it. He went beyond the analytical - the range of a session musician such as Page - to the synthetic limits of the original composer.
Hendrix never copied these people in the merely plagiaristic sense. He learnt their licks and did something completely new with them. He used feedback and guitar smashing but made beautiful sonic shapes with autodestruction, whereas Townshend's smashups were a horrible fucking racket. Jimi absorbed the musical vocabulary of Chuch Berry and extended upon it. He went beyond the analytical - the range of a session musician such as Page - to the synthetic limits of the original composer.
shit lyrics though
i agree with what you said.. i know his place in musical history is earned... he's not my bag baby but i have to acknowledge his ability and his place in the pantheon of great rock stars.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i agree with what you said.. i know his place in musical history is earned... he's not my bag baby but i have to acknowledge his ability and his place in the pantheon of great rock stars.
"They gave you sunshine
They gave you sea
They gave you everything but the jailhouse key
They gave you coffee
They gave you tea
They gave you everything but equality"
"They gave you sunshine
They gave you sea
They gave you everything but the jailhouse key
They gave you coffee
They gave you tea
They gave you everything but equality"
John Lennon, "Angela"
Now your Daddy's cool, and your Mamma's no fool,
They both know I'm heads over heels for you,
And when the day melts down into a sleepy red glow,
That's when my desires start to show.
You got me floatin' round and round,
You got me floatin' never down
You got me floatin' naturally
You got me floatin' float to please
the bit in bold is earth shattering
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
take more than some Edinburgh lassie and Cambridge's only Dave Lee Travis impersonator to hold me down
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Now your Daddy's cool, and your Mamma's no fool,
They both know I'm heads over heels for you,
And when the day melts down into a sleepy red glow,
That's when my desires start to show.
You got me floatin' round and round,
You got me floatin' never down
You got me floatin' naturally
You got me floatin' float to please
the bit in bold is earth shattering
That's a powerful song, overloaded in sexual nuance. It harkens back to the plaintive
"My young love said to me, my mother won't mind,
and my father won't slight you for your lack of kind"
of She Moved Through The Fair, one of the greatest of all traditional love ballads.
STARGIRL69 ... you must have missed the below posts.
Either you can't read, or you just don't get it.
What part of "singularly invented the concept album\ album rock \ album as one continuous work" do you not understand? What part of singularly changed EVERY dynamic of the recording process is too obtuse for you to grasp? How about coining more techinical studio effects in their short career than can even be listed, including pioneering sample-based recording?
Some things the Beatles "invented": (and a lot of credit should be given to Geoff Emerick and the Beatles production staff in general, but particularly to the "sound engineers" and Geoff in specific)
1. "Album Rock" \ "Concept Album" , Sgt. Peppers is rather undeniably the first pop album to run songs in to one another using sounds\themes and studio trickery to create a continuity of the aural experience
2. Sample based recording, or "looping": Way way way before Hip Hop or Brian Eno or any other band in the world realy, the Beatles were using every fucking track on every fucking board in Abbey Road studio ... literaly running wires through walls with over a dozen engineers standing all over the building feeding reels of tape to different sound boards at the exact right time as called out over studio mics in order to get all these crazy sounds for Sgt. Peppers on to a final 4 track mix in real time. This was absolutely unheard of in its day, and was a technical nightmare. In a very real sense, the Beatles pioneered sample based recording.
3. Backwards masked guitar\effects\vocals
The Beatles are probably the first band to utilize the tape machines to play back instruments backwards on tape. They prearanged guitar parts that would work backwards, and it was way ahead of its time.
4. Using a Lesley Speaker to sing vocals through -- Lennon wanted to sound "underwater" for some of his vocals (again, on Peppers, I believe) ... first they experimented with putting a microphone in a milk jar filled with water (and nearly killed John through electrocution in the process) ... and then john wanted to actualy try and sing underwater ... but finaly Geoff came up with the idea of using a Lesley speaker. Most great bands since then have "borowed" this trick, everyone from the Grateful Dead and Rolling Stones, to White Stripes and Flaming Lips.
5. The "studio album" as a work in itself, irreplicable on stage: The Beatles were the first band ever to decide that they would focus on making albums so intricate and studio-centric that they absolutely could not be reproduced in good form on stage. In fact, a major reason they wanted to stop performing live was not just the fact that they didn't like the road ... it was that they wanted to be free from the pressure of having to reproduce their impressive studio trickery out in a live setting. They wanted to focus on making a unadulturated studio album, the best it could possibly be.
6. Breaking down "The Producer As Boss" mentality. [the Grateful Dead get a nod here too]
Up until the Beatles came along, the prevailing logic was that The Producer was in charge of just about everything. By the middle of their career, the Beatles had nearly made George Martin little more than an aranger of vocal harmonies (if that) and a simple booking agent for guest musicians. Which brings us to the next one
7. The Beatles were probably the first band to extensively use outside musicians in their pop music. Sure, other artists had used symphonic work or strings, but the Beatles were one of the first to realy go all out with their use of hired musicians ... they used a full symphony orchestra on more than a few ocasions and were probably the first band to piss off said musicians by forcing them in to settings they were uncomfortable with (drugs and improptu performance, no sheet music).
8. Eastern music. One of the first to incorporate eastern melodies and scales in to their music.
9. Dual lead vocalists. How many pop\rock bands before the Beatles had two male lead vocalists that were both extremely impressive song writers? How many bands since then have their even been?
10. More studio tricks than i can list here. Besides the Lesley, the "sampling", and the reverse guitar, the Beatles (vis a vis their strange requests for different sounds coupled with Geoff Emericks amazing talent) pioneered more daring and innovative studio "tricks" than any band before or since. Things like the distortion on "Revolution 1" were absolutely unheard of at the time, primarily because to achieve that sound they had to mic the amps much closer than studio rules allowed (don't want to blow those expensive mics!) and turn up the limit levels on the mixing board way higher than studio protocol allowed (don't want to blow the board either for fucks sake)! That distortion on Revolution 1 alone is probably THE distortion sound that sticks in most "in the know" musicians heads as the sound to beat, to this day. Again, there are more of these type tricks than can even be listed here, all of which are credited to the Beatles alone.
11. Among the first bands to decide that they could build their own studio instead of using a rented space. Abbey Road Studios was one of the first build by a band with big recording contract, for their own personal use. Hendrix is another one of the first.
12. Inventing 4 track before there was 4 tracks. Back in the early days, when all the major studios still had TWO track machines, the beatles were looking for more tracks. They got Geoff to convince the maintenance engineers (the brown coats) to hall the other machine from Studio 2 back in to Studio 1 so that they could Jerry-rig them together using some werid synch technique based off of some new fangled technology that both machines had, that was not ment for rigging them together but only ensuring the correct start time of the tape in one machine ... but never the less, the jerry-rigged them together and in a round about way invented the 4 track recording process ... even though it didn't realy work so well.
13. Esoteric or non-sensical lyrics as something more than just goofey (Louie Louie?) ... John Lennon was one of the first song writers to recognize that a song didn't have to make sense from a "logical" perspective. He helped pioneer the psychedelic rock movement with his new lyrical approach. While one can argue that the Grateful Dead beat The Beatles to LSD proper, it is probably to Lennon that credit must go for the actual change in the way inherent meaning of lyrics to songs became less important than the impression those words left the listener with.
14. Merchandising. The Beatles, hands down, win for the prize for first band whose management figured out how to cash in by marketing the name and image to everything and anything imaginable under the sun. They basicaly invented the pop phenomenon of band products.
15. The Fan Club Christmas Single. You need look no further than Pearl Jam to see how influential the Beatles decision to put out a Fan Club xmas single was.
These are just a handful of the unparalleled (at the time) achievments of the beatles ... and to argue that they get more credit than they deserve is fucking absurd.
I'd say they don't even get enough credit.
Most people have NO idea just how goddamn important their contributions were to rock ... i mean outside of just "yeah they were one of the first real pop\rock bands to bring a hysteria to the masses" ... no ... they actualy pioneered REAL achievments. I can't even think of all of them right now, but i'm sure i could come back and add at least another half dozen to this list. Things like pioneering "album rock" and changing the Talent\Producer dynamic alone should be enough to keep them in the upper echelon of the Pop\Rock pantheon for all time!
Thanks...people tend to ignore the fact that the most innovative things they did, which we still enjoy today, was manipulation with sounds in the studio. Simply amazing.
Yes.
Two other inter-related "Worlds First" awards that have to do with their love of the studio:
1. First band to push for essentialy unlimited studio time
(Grateful Dead a fighting 2nd)
2. First band, no contest, to have studio hours late in to the night. Even after 8 or 9pm was odd, but the Beatles started pushing it to 3 or 4am on regular occassion. This was unheard of, and caused big scheduling headaches for the studio staff, who still had to wake up and work 8am to 7pm regularly as well!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I think the problem is that most people look back and say "Yeah, well, everything they've done (as regards Drifting's post) has been done since, probably better" and don't stop to acknowledge that it hadn't been done before. We take all those advancements for granted.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
STARGIRL69 ... you must have missed the below posts.
Either you can't read, or you just don't get it.
What part of "singularly invented the concept album\ album rock \ album as one continuous work" do you not understand? What part of singularly changed EVERY dynamic of the recording process is too obtuse for you to grasp? How about coining more techinical studio effects in their short career than can even be listed, including pioneering sample-based recording?
Overrated?
Give me a fucking break.
No it was just a boring read.But thanks
“There should be a place where only the things you want to happen, happen”
I think the problem is that most people look back and say "Yeah, well, everything they've done (as regards Drifting's post) has been done since, probably better" and don't stop to acknowledge that it hadn't been done before. We take all those advancements for granted.
Right.
And the argument, "Yeah, but if THEY hadn't done it, someone else would have just come along and done it" ... that IS THE FUCKING STUPIDEST REASONING EVER!
"Hey the beatles were the first band to ever write & record a concept album that was continuous from start to finish!"
"So? Someone else would have just come along and thought of it."
"Yeah, but the BEATLES DID IT FIRST!"
"Yeah. So?"
Uh.
Okay.
Great fucking argument people.
By that logic, who the fuck cares that black people started blues first ... fuck it ... the white man would have come along eventualy and created it.
:rolleyes:
Give me a fucking break.
Credit given where credit is due,
or admit you are just being a deliberate troll who hates the beatles because well ... i dunno, your taste is lacking?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Comments
Both were larger than life (and is to this very day)
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Before The Beatles there was music, and music is constantly evolving. Nobody invents a genre. There are bands that come along and push the boundaries more like The Beatles, but they didn't think up rock n roll. Neither did Elvis or whoever else gets credit for such a ridiculous thing.
Exactly. These people have no sense of the contexts of musical history. The people they cite as innovators are often coming years after the groundwork was done and the great monuments of rock constructed and there for all to copy.
Go and listen to Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, White Album and Abbey Road and post me links of a boyband who has even come close to their inovation.....
Its fine to hate the beatles, of course theyre not to everyones taste but not even beginning to recognise their achievements is just plain ignorance.....
yeah cos "ringo starr lol" is indeed the paradigm of comedy
you can dislike them all you want but what you are doing is bashing them without knowing anything about them... and thats pure ignorance... to dismiss the beatles as a mere boyband is like saying Pearl Jam were just money hungry grunge wannabees formed to quickly latch on to a new fad.
better at what?
Watch that hypertension dunkman.Chill out its only opinions.
Oohhh we agree!Thats what I think of them too! *puts on fire retardent suit in preparation for scorching*
Now this is fun.
aye i know, but i thought this thread was about whether the beatles deserve the credit they get bestowed upon them... so saying the Stones were better.. i didnt know at what? at receiving credit? as a band? i presume the dude means he prefers the Stones music, but then thats not what the thread is about in the slightest so i wondered if he meant better at breaking musical barriers than the Beatles.
i mean, i'm not a fan of Hendrix... but at least i realise his place in music... same with Bob Dylan.. does very little for me... but i realise his importance to the music world.
thats what i'd like to hear from the likes of yourself when you say shit about the beatles... fine you dont like their music, but to ridicule them and deny them their importance in musical history is kinda infantile blinkered behaviour... in my opinion
Even if you hate them, and that is your choice, it is absurd to try and deny their place in Rock and Roll history.
Musical scholars and people with half a brain anywhere recognize that the Beatles are the greatest or one of the greatest bands ever, no matter how you define it.
To say otherwise is completely ignorant. Stop making a fool of yourselves comparing them to boy bands.
Touche to you!
I'm kicking when your down for my own purile entertainment.Not big or clever I know.
Its great for you that you like,know and respect the Beatles.I'll raise my hands in humility I know shit about the band or even want to other than I know 100% I don't like the way they sound,believe me I've tried.Yes I bought albums,yes I sucked them and saw,yes they sucked IMO and were returned.
Yes I know a shit load about Hendrix,yes IMO the man was mightier than god,yes I would probably get all riled up just like you if the thread was about him,but its not,so I could and I did,and you took the bait.
And yes I am a twisted fuck.But peace to you my native man.Go forth and enjoy listening to what ever you enjoy listening to.
Its all about diversity.xxx
yeah you really had me on the ropes
p.s. Hendrix copied everyone from Townshend to Chuck Berry and even covered Beatles songs... he was in awe of them
Hendrix never copied these people in the merely plagiaristic sense. He learnt their licks and did something completely new with them. He used feedback and guitar smashing but made beautiful sonic shapes with autodestruction, whereas Townshend's smashups were a horrible fucking racket. Jimi absorbed the musical vocabulary of Chuch Berry and extended upon it. He went beyond the analytical - the range of a session musician such as Page - to the synthetic limits of the original composer.
shit lyrics though
i agree with what you said.. i know his place in musical history is earned... he's not my bag baby but i have to acknowledge his ability and his place in the pantheon of great rock stars.
Shit lyrics? Hendrix pissed on Lennon!
"They gave you sunshine
They gave you sea
They gave you everything but the jailhouse key
They gave you coffee
They gave you tea
They gave you everything but equality"
John Lennon, "Angela"
And over to you FPR!
I'll hold him down
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Now your Daddy's cool, and your Mamma's no fool,
They both know I'm heads over heels for you,
And when the day melts down into a sleepy red glow,
That's when my desires start to show.
You got me floatin' round and round,
You got me floatin' never down
You got me floatin' naturally
You got me floatin' float to please
the bit in bold is earth shattering
take more than some Edinburgh lassie and Cambridge's only Dave Lee Travis impersonator to hold me down
That's a powerful song, overloaded in sexual nuance. It harkens back to the plaintive
"My young love said to me, my mother won't mind,
and my father won't slight you for your lack of kind"
of She Moved Through The Fair, one of the greatest of all traditional love ballads.
:cool:
Cominatcha through the fakkin' cornflakes. Now lie down while stargirl69 reveals the true meaning of her username.
Either you can't read, or you just don't get it.
What part of "singularly invented the concept album\ album rock \ album as one continuous work" do you not understand? What part of singularly changed EVERY dynamic of the recording process is too obtuse for you to grasp? How about coining more techinical studio effects in their short career than can even be listed, including pioneering sample-based recording?
Overrated?
Give me a fucking break.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
No it was just a boring read.But thanks
Right.
And the argument, "Yeah, but if THEY hadn't done it, someone else would have just come along and done it" ... that IS THE FUCKING STUPIDEST REASONING EVER!
"Hey the beatles were the first band to ever write & record a concept album that was continuous from start to finish!"
"So? Someone else would have just come along and thought of it."
"Yeah, but the BEATLES DID IT FIRST!"
"Yeah. So?"
Uh.
Okay.
Great fucking argument people.
By that logic, who the fuck cares that black people started blues first ... fuck it ... the white man would have come along eventualy and created it.
:rolleyes:
Give me a fucking break.
Credit given where credit is due,
or admit you are just being a deliberate troll who hates the beatles because well ... i dunno, your taste is lacking?
If I opened it now would you not understand?