whenever someone starts a Nirvana thread tehre is always the guy who says Grohl is better and was the most talented guy in the band but the best rebuttal I ever saw was somewhere on this board in a "Nrivana vs. Foo Fighters" thread, I forget who it was but the line was
"Dave Grohl would say Nirvana"
I think he would too.
"I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
Chris Cornell
Kurt Cobain will never be remembered for his singing, or his guitar technique, as both were nothing special. for me, that really was the whole point. Sometimes less IS more. cobain was an unbelievably talented songwriter. he was a genius, and it was his ability to communicate what he was feeling that set him apart from the rest.
Kurt Cobain will never be remembered for his singing, or his guitar technique, as both were nothing special. for me, that really was the whole point. Sometimes less IS more. cobain was an unbelievably talented songwriter. he was a genius, and it was his ability to communicate what he was feeling that set him apart from the rest.
Kurt was not a genius, he was a deeply charismatic frontman and was capable of penning some excellent tunes but also some absolute crap. seriously. Nirvana fans sometimes seem to overlook the childish, angsty foetus-obsessed crap he could come out with that you can find in any "misunderstood" teenager's journal. Don't get me wrong, he wrote some great songs but they tended to be when he wasn't being so brazenly "woe is me".
I just don't think you can tag 'genius' onto a guy that made 3 records, ONE of which was excellent (In Utero) and the other two were ok, who couldn't really play guitar (though he wrote some good riffs) and couldn't really sing (though his voice had something about it). The nearest Nirvana ever came to genius was the unplugged show.
Unfulfilled potential sums up my thoughts on Kurt.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Kurt was not a genius, he was a deeply charismatic frontman and was capable of penning some excellent tunes but also some absolute crap. seriously. Nirvana fans sometimes seem to overlook the childish, angsty foetus-obsessed crap he could come out with that you can find in any "misunderstood" teenager's journal. Don't get me wrong, he wrote some great songs but they tended to be when he wasn't being so brazenly "woe is me".
I just don't think you can tag 'genius' onto a guy that made 3 records, ONE of which was excellent (In Utero) and the other two were ok, who couldn't really play guitar (though he wrote some good riffs) and couldn't really sing (though his voice had something about it). The nearest Nirvana ever came to genius was the unplugged show.
Unfulfilled potential sums up my thoughts on Kurt.
I don't we can take someone who thinks Nevermind is just an OK record seriously.
I don't we can take someone who thinks Nevermind is just an OK record seriously.
I guess you don't have much time for Kurt then? He certainly didn't think it was that great - "It sounds more like a Motley Crue record".
No one who actually knew Nirvana and their music at that time thought that record was in any way a representation of them as a band. You can gather that much from anything any of the band members, their friends and fellow bands around at the time. Nevermind has a handful of great songs and bunch of insanely overrated ones and it is marred by an MTV production job. As far as furthering Kurt's punk credentials goes (something he clearly took very seriously), Nevermind is an unconvincing effort at best. In Utero is a much better attempt.
Oh, and it's interesting how I made a balanced point, not being a fan of Nirvana but still commending them where it's deserved, whereas you make blanket statements about me not being worth taking seriously. Ironically this makes me not take you very seriously.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I agree. Technically he's not very good at all, but I don't give a damn whether a guitarist can play 800 notes a minute, because if he doesn't make you feel something, then all that talent is worthless. I love guys like Neil Young and Kurt Cobain who, even though they don't have the technical ability of other professionals, are infinitely better because they make me feel something. That's what guitar playing is all about to me.
Thats what its all about. You are totally right.
By the way Kurt was a genius.
"when the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will be at peace"-Jimi Hendrix
He wasn't a genius, he just took his own head off before he had a chance to make a bad/unnoticed album.
It's the jimi hendrix principle. Die young and make yourself a legend.
If he was alive today he would be putting out bad solo albums and opening for Pearl Jam and Velvet Revolver to very little applause till he actually played "...Teen Spirit".
If he was alive today he would be putting out bad solo albums and opening for Pearl Jam and Velvet Revolver to very little applause till he actually played "...Teen Spirit".
I guess you don't have much time for Kurt then? He certainly didn't think it was that great - "It sounds more like a Motley Crue record".
No one who actually knew Nirvana and their music at that time thought that record was in any way a representation of them as a band. You can gather that much from anything any of the band members, their friends and fellow bands around at the time. Nevermind has a handful of great songs and bunch of insanely overrated ones and it is marred by an MTV production job. As far as furthering Kurt's punk credentials goes (something he clearly took very seriously), Nevermind is an unconvincing effort at best. In Utero is a much better attempt.
Oh, and it's interesting how I made a balanced point, not being a fan of Nirvana but still commending them where it's deserved, whereas you make blanket statements about me not being worth taking seriously. Ironically this makes me not take you very seriously.
Who cares if some people don't think it is a good representation of what Kurt thought Nirvana was supposed to sound like? It's a timeless record regardless. If Kurt was so concerned with his punk credentials he shouldn't have signed with a major label, and made an shiny, accessible record... He was such a hypocrite.
is it important that kurt be recognised as a genius? i say no. i say it doesnt matter. i say that the way kurt sang and the way he played his guitar was perfect for the songs nirvana were doing. i say it doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks of kurt cobain or the music nirvana did. someone doesn't like kurt or nirvana. someone can't see past his death or his addictions or the supposed horseshit with courtney, i don't care. all that matters to me is i appreciate the music.
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Who cares if some people don't think it is a good representation of what Kurt thought Nirvana was supposed to sound like? It's a timeless record regardless. If Kurt was so concerned with his punk credentials he shouldn't have signed with a major label, and made an shiny, accessible record... He was such a hypocrite.
I call to mind a particular time when Kurt was doing his "I am so punk, Pearl Jam are so hair metal" PJ bashing and actually said "I feel a duty to warn kids off bands like Pearl Jam who are masquerading as underground music".
So yeah, he was concerned.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Who cares if some people don't think it is a good representation of what Kurt thought Nirvana was supposed to sound like? It's a timeless record regardless. If Kurt was so concerned with his punk credentials he shouldn't have signed with a major label, and made an shiny, accessible record... He was such a hypocrite.
an interesting aside. perhaps, perhaps not.
during the making of superunknown, michael beinhorn, as producer, naturally spoke with chris cornell and asked him about the songs the band had written. there wasnt much to work with. so beinhorn asked cornell what he was listening to at the moment. cornell replied, the beatles and cream. beinhorn couldnt believe this cause the songs cornell had shown him were hardly indicative of this. so he tells cornell that he's got to get real. strong songs need good melodies, which wasn't what he'd shown beinhorn. cornell then says yeah but it won't sound like soundgarden. beinhorn says what? who gives a fuck? YOU ARE soundgarden, therefore anything you do will sound like soundgarden.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
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i just need to say
Pearl Jam was a hell of alot bigger than Nirvana ever was and their impact on popular music has been ZERO since around 1995.
If Eddie had died after Vitalogy, he would have been hailed as a much greater "Genius" that Kurt.
Because seriously, put Nirvana's 3 albums up against Ten, VS, and Vitalogy.
No contest who the better songwriter is if Ed is dead. But Ed has written 5 more "non-commercial, non-selling" albums since then and it's "oh, pearl jam USED to be good."
When did Kurt ever get the chance to stop being good? (I mean unless someone wants to point out that the In Utero tour was playing to half empty venues, but people like to glaze over that fact and just remember Nevermind's impact on MTV/Hair Bands/Popular music)
Nirvana was a a flash in the pan. a very LARGE flash in the pan, but a flash in the pan none the less.
Pearl Jam was a hell of alot bigger than Nirvana ever was and their impact on popular music has been ZERO since around 1995.
If Eddie had died after Vitalogy, he would have been hailed as a much greater "Genius" that Kurt.
Because seriously, put Nirvana's 3 albums up against Ten, VS, and Vitalogy.
No contest who the better songwriter is if Ed is dead. But Ed has written 5 more "non-commercial, non-selling" albums since then and it's "oh, pearl jam USED to be good."
When did Kurt ever get the chance to stop being good? (I mean unless someone wants to point out that the In Utero tour was playing to half empty venues, but people like to glaze over that fact and just remember Nevermind's impact on MTV/Hair Bands/Popular music)
Nirvana was a a flash in the pan. a very LARGE flash in the pan, but a flash in the pan none the less.
I'm as big a PJ fan as their is but... no. In Utero and Nevermind are better than PJ's best albums, and Nirvana was a band for 7 years
At the same time, I agree that if somehow Kurt had grown old gracefully and Nirvana had pulled back in similar way to what PJ had (which they were sort of on their way) Nirvana would not get the same love from the MSM they currently have.
thankyou captain obvious. i'm well aware conversations evolve. i just wonder why it has to turn into a pissing match, like my daddy is better than yours and this band is better than that one mentality (which has nothing to do whether cobain was a good guitarist or not).
to bad kurt cobain hated pearl jam . sux but true!!
i discovered pearl jam and mike mccready (i'm a guitarist) when i was 11 years old. thirteen years later, they still move me like no other band. when i was growing up pretty much ALL my friends hated pearl jam. if i took offence to people disliking pearl jam when i was growing up, i would not have had any friends!
to bad kurt cobain hated pearl jam . sux but true!!
Well they buried that hatchet and I think it would be awesome say Pearl Jam and Nirvana had done a few shows together before Kurt left the world behind, because frankly 90% of the PJ fanboys around here would have a totally different outlook and perspective on the subject.
You see a lot of people on here who are influenced by the fact that Kurt had dissed Pearl Jam and therefore was the shittest, most overated musician to ever walk the planet, known as the UFC(ultimate fanboy complex).;)
It's the jimi hendrix principle. Die young and make yourself a legend.
Jimi Hendrix was one of the greatest, most innovative guitar players ever, are you trying to say that he was'nt very revered before his death? because he most certainly was already a legend before that death.
He wasn't a genius, he just took his own head off before he had a chance to make a bad/unnoticed album.
It's the jimi hendrix principle. Die young and make yourself a legend.
If he was alive today he would be putting out bad solo albums and opening for Pearl Jam and Velvet Revolver to very little applause till he actually played "...Teen Spirit".
hey! nostradamus. :rolleyes:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
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Nah I just think Cobain is overrated because his songs do nothing for me. They are for the most part repetitive and boring. Sure a couple are ctachy but I would never listen to them more than I do AiC, PJ, Soundgarden, Ween, Tool, NiN and bands like that.
And thats the same way I think of the Foo Fighters too.
I wouldn't say he should be remembered as a guitarist but in general as a songwriter.
Beavis: All my friends are brown and red? What does that mean?
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
Remember a few years ago when Jerry Cantrell was opening for Creed and Nickelback?
Point made.
Thank you, don't forget to tip your waitress.
i was actually referring to your 'knowing' how kurt's life would end up. as was indicated by my making bold the relevant sentences. music wasnt the only thing in kurt's life and i'd prefer to think that he would have moved out of the music world and delved into his more visual artistic side. and no i don't think he would have actually left the music entirely behind, but expanded his scope somewhat in expressing himself. but of course, this is all supposition on my part cause i didnt know the man.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Its funny, people can't comment on Cobain without talking about his personal life or his suicide.
The fact that he took his own life means nothing in terms of his talent. He was an incredible artist, a true original. No Nirvana wannabe band has ever come close to recreating his sound, and no one ever will. Anyone who can't see that there was something special there has either never really listened to it, or is flat out wrong. Forget the hype about his death, his drug addiction, Courtney Love...he was a brilliant musician.
Comments
"Dave Grohl would say Nirvana"
I think he would too.
Chris Cornell
http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
I just don't think you can tag 'genius' onto a guy that made 3 records, ONE of which was excellent (In Utero) and the other two were ok, who couldn't really play guitar (though he wrote some good riffs) and couldn't really sing (though his voice had something about it). The nearest Nirvana ever came to genius was the unplugged show.
Unfulfilled potential sums up my thoughts on Kurt.
I don't we can take someone who thinks Nevermind is just an OK record seriously.
No one who actually knew Nirvana and their music at that time thought that record was in any way a representation of them as a band. You can gather that much from anything any of the band members, their friends and fellow bands around at the time. Nevermind has a handful of great songs and bunch of insanely overrated ones and it is marred by an MTV production job. As far as furthering Kurt's punk credentials goes (something he clearly took very seriously), Nevermind is an unconvincing effort at best. In Utero is a much better attempt.
Oh, and it's interesting how I made a balanced point, not being a fan of Nirvana but still commending them where it's deserved, whereas you make blanket statements about me not being worth taking seriously. Ironically this makes me not take you very seriously.
Thats what its all about. You are totally right.
By the way Kurt was a genius.
It's the jimi hendrix principle. Die young and make yourself a legend.
If he was alive today he would be putting out bad solo albums and opening for Pearl Jam and Velvet Revolver to very little applause till he actually played "...Teen Spirit".
i love how fucking sure you are about this
08/02/07 - LOLLA!!!
Who cares if some people don't think it is a good representation of what Kurt thought Nirvana was supposed to sound like? It's a timeless record regardless. If Kurt was so concerned with his punk credentials he shouldn't have signed with a major label, and made an shiny, accessible record... He was such a hypocrite.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So yeah, he was concerned.
an interesting aside. perhaps, perhaps not.
during the making of superunknown, michael beinhorn, as producer, naturally spoke with chris cornell and asked him about the songs the band had written. there wasnt much to work with. so beinhorn asked cornell what he was listening to at the moment. cornell replied, the beatles and cream. beinhorn couldnt believe this cause the songs cornell had shown him were hardly indicative of this. so he tells cornell that he's got to get real. strong songs need good melodies, which wasn't what he'd shown beinhorn. cornell then says yeah but it won't sound like soundgarden. beinhorn says what? who gives a fuck? YOU ARE soundgarden, therefore anything you do will sound like soundgarden.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well he really wasn't all that great.
Pearl Jam was a hell of alot bigger than Nirvana ever was and their impact on popular music has been ZERO since around 1995.
If Eddie had died after Vitalogy, he would have been hailed as a much greater "Genius" that Kurt.
Because seriously, put Nirvana's 3 albums up against Ten, VS, and Vitalogy.
No contest who the better songwriter is if Ed is dead. But Ed has written 5 more "non-commercial, non-selling" albums since then and it's "oh, pearl jam USED to be good."
When did Kurt ever get the chance to stop being good? (I mean unless someone wants to point out that the In Utero tour was playing to half empty venues, but people like to glaze over that fact and just remember Nevermind's impact on MTV/Hair Bands/Popular music)
Nirvana was a a flash in the pan. a very LARGE flash in the pan, but a flash in the pan none the less.
I'm as big a PJ fan as their is but... no. In Utero and Nevermind are better than PJ's best albums, and Nirvana was a band for 7 years
At the same time, I agree that if somehow Kurt had grown old gracefully and Nirvana had pulled back in similar way to what PJ had (which they were sort of on their way) Nirvana would not get the same love from the MSM they currently have.
if you're only consulting page one, post one.
conversations evolve you know.
sorry, had to do that.
Philly- 2005, 2013, 2016, 2024
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Philly Spectrum 2009 x4 - We closed that MFER Down Proper
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DC- 2006, 2008
New York- 2008, 2010
Boston - Fenway 2016 (night 2) , 2024 (night1)
East Rutherford, New Jersey- 2006
Chicago - Lollapalooza 2007
Seattle- Gorge 2005
EV Solo- DC x2, Baltimore x2 , Newark NJ x2, Tower Theater x2
- Given To Fly
Well they buried that hatchet and I think it would be awesome say Pearl Jam and Nirvana had done a few shows together before Kurt left the world behind, because frankly 90% of the PJ fanboys around here would have a totally different outlook and perspective on the subject.
You see a lot of people on here who are influenced by the fact that Kurt had dissed Pearl Jam and therefore was the shittest, most overated musician to ever walk the planet, known as the UFC(ultimate fanboy complex).;)
Jimi Hendrix was one of the greatest, most innovative guitar players ever, are you trying to say that he was'nt very revered before his death? because he most certainly was already a legend before that death.
hey! nostradamus. :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Remember a few years ago when Jerry Cantrell was opening for Creed and Nickelback?
Point made.
Thank you, don't forget to tip your waitress.
And to everyone who's talking bad about Kurt (& Nirvana);
$%^@#
I'll Hold The Pain... Release...
Yourself
And thats the same way I think of the Foo Fighters too.
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
i was actually referring to your 'knowing' how kurt's life would end up. as was indicated by my making bold the relevant sentences. music wasnt the only thing in kurt's life and i'd prefer to think that he would have moved out of the music world and delved into his more visual artistic side. and no i don't think he would have actually left the music entirely behind, but expanded his scope somewhat in expressing himself. but of course, this is all supposition on my part cause i didnt know the man.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, I agree.. there was also drugs.
The fact that he took his own life means nothing in terms of his talent. He was an incredible artist, a true original. No Nirvana wannabe band has ever come close to recreating his sound, and no one ever will. Anyone who can't see that there was something special there has either never really listened to it, or is flat out wrong. Forget the hype about his death, his drug addiction, Courtney Love...he was a brilliant musician.