Zeitgeist. Not as good as SM, MCAIS or Adore but better than Machina.

24

Comments

  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Not comparable to Adore?! Do me a fucking favour! For a start it has the majestic drumming of Jimmy Chamberlin, and more importantly some fucking memorable songs. Aside from a few tracks like To Sheila, Ava Adore, Perfect and Crestfallen, Adore was a grade A snore-fest. At least Zeitgeist has some life to it, sure it's not perfect, but it comes far closer to bringing back their original energy than Adore/Machina/Zwan combined.

    And seriously, people expected 'good' vocals from Billy Corgan? The guy has ALWAYS been an average singer, his true talents lie in his amazing guitar playing and writing hook filled melodies, which is why Adore and Machina weren't so good, because the guitars were toned down and the melodies watered down.
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    Yeah, his singing really isn't his strong point, but he can write music so we forgive him. ;):D
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  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    It's funny, cause despite his nasally whine of a voice, I actually quite like it - maybe becasue it's so distinctive, but most probably because it evokes some of the greatest songs of the last ten years or so...
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    facepollution wrote:
    It's funny, cause despite his nasally whine of a voice, I actually quite like it - maybe becasue it's so distinctive, but most probably because it evokes some of the greatest songs of the last ten years or so...

    It's fine for what he's doing. Sometimes Billy really can't get hold his tunes live though...he's not as reliable as Ed that way. :)
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  • jsaso
    jsaso Posts: 179
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    jsaso wrote:
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?

    I could start some new Chris Cornell ones to combat them if you like? ;)
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    jsaso wrote:
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?

    fuck you

    anyway i think it was bad idea playing the tracks live.. becuase listening the album really sucks compared to all the lives versions i have heard..

    hehe good one John.. yeh lets make some cornell threads so weiners like jsaso dont visit this place
  • jsaso
    jsaso Posts: 179
    I BrisK I wrote:
    fuck you

    anyway i think it was bad idea playing the tracks live.. becuase listening the album really sucks compared to all the lives versions i have heard..

    hehe good one John.. yeh lets make some cornell threads so weiners like jsaso dont visit this place

    hey marry poppins i was kidding
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    jsaso wrote:
    hey marry poppins i was kidding

    why kid

    its incredibly lame and not funny
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    facepollution wrote:
    Not comparable to Adore?! Do me a fucking favour! For a start it has the majestic drumming of Jimmy Chamberlin, and more importantly some fucking memorable songs. Aside from a few tracks like To Sheila, Ava Adore, Perfect and Crestfallen, Adore was a grade A snore-fest. At least Zeitgeist has some life to it, sure it's not perfect, but it comes far closer to bringing back their original energy than Adore/Machina/Zwan combined.

    And seriously, people expected 'good' vocals from Billy Corgan? The guy has ALWAYS been an average singer, his true talents lie in his amazing guitar playing and writing hook filled melodies, which is why Adore and Machina weren't so good, because the guitars were toned down and the melodies watered down.

    I dunno, I just feel like the material that appears on Adore comes from an inspired artist. The material on Zeitgeist seems like it's coming from someone who desperately wants to put his band back together, and not someone who is highly inspired to necessarily create new material. The lyrics and style on Adore are much better imo. The drumming makes no difference. Smashing Pumpkins is Billy Corgan backed up by 3 or 4 other people...doesn't matter who they are. It's the same with NIN.

    And when I say bad vocals, I don't mean his voice...I mean the way the vocals were mixed in...bad production or something.

    P.S. - what's the favor I should do?
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Saturnal wrote:
    I dunno, I just feel like the material that appears on Adore comes from an inspired artist. The material on Zeitgeist seems like it's coming from someone who desperately wants to put his band back together, and not someone who is highly inspired to necessarily create new material. The lyrics and style on Adore are much better imo. The drumming makes no difference. Smashing Pumpkins is Billy Corgan backed up by 3 or 4 other people...doesn't matter who they are. It's the same with NIN.

    And when I say bad vocals, I don't mean his voice...I mean the way the vocals were mixed in...bad production or something.

    P.S. - what's the favor I should do?

    The favour is to go back and listen to it again with no expectations! Seriously, I had a lot of hopes for the album, but had NO CLUE what it would sound like. Read my long diatribe in the other Pumpkins thread, you'll get where I'm coming from - .http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=250334&page=3 I'm not saying this is his greatest material ever, but it's certainly the most melodically consistent album he's done since Mellon Collie.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    facepollution wrote:
    The favour is to go back and listen to it again with no expectations! Seriously, I had a lot of hopes for the album, but had NO CLUE what it would sound like. Read my long diatribe in the other Pumpkins thread, you'll get where I'm coming from - .http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=250334&page=3 I'm not saying this is his greatest material ever, but it's certainly the most melodically consistent album he's done since Mellon Collie.
    Yeah, I've listened to it 3 times total...I just don't feel anything from it. I have high hopes for anything Corgan puts out because he's shown he has the potential to create great music. This just didn't cut it for me. I guess it's melodic, but I don't think that's really something I look for in an album. That's like saying "the time signatures were 4/4 consistently all the way through"...maybe so, but it's not something that makes for a good album. It's just a given.
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Saturnal wrote:
    Yeah, I've listened to it 3 times total...I just don't feel anything from it. I have high hopes for anything Corgan puts out because he's shown he has the potential to create great music. This just didn't cut it for me. I guess it's melodic, but I don't think that's really something I look for in an album. That's like saying "the time signatures were 4/4 consistently all the way through"...maybe so, but it's not something that makes for a good album. It's just a given.

    It's not a given at all. Catchy songs absolutely do make an album. Melody is essential in making a song memorable, it's no coincidence that the overwhelming majority of Pumpkins fans would take Siamese Dream over Adore or Machina. SD is absolutely loaded with pop hooks, whereas a lot of Adore and Machina focus on far more subtle melodies, which some bands do well, but that is certainly not where Corgan excells.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    facepollution wrote:
    It's not a given at all. Catchy songs absolutely do make an album. Melody is essential in making a song memorable, it's no coincidence that the overwhelming majority of Pumpkins fans would take Siamese Dream over Adore or Machina. SD is absolutely loaded with pop hooks, whereas a lot of Adore and Machina focus on far more subtle melodies, which some bands do well, but that is certainly not where Corgan excells.
    I think this kinda thing just comes down to opinion really. Smash by The Offspring is filled with catchy songs too, but that doesn't mean it compares artistically to Siamese Dream. Tool doesn't use 4/4 a lot, but I love their sound. If all it took was melody and 4/4 to make great records, everyone would just go out and buy "Music Theory For Dummies" and make records.

    What interests me more is the artistry that goes into it. If catchy melodies support that, then that's great. But if you don't have a strong artistic/inspired base for the songs, it won't matter how catchy the songs are to me.
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    i think being just a taper and loving to listen to the latest shows live has ruined this album.. i really cant listen to it... United states is pretty good studio and bleeding the orchid. They complete over friggin produced starz.. starz ahs an awesome roar at the end live..

    bah

    the songs are 99999 times better live
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Saturnal wrote:
    I think this kinda thing just comes down to opinion really. Smash by The Offspring is filled with catchy songs too, but that doesn't mean it compares artistically to Siamese Dream. Tool doesn't use 4/4 a lot, but I love their sound. If all it took was melody and 4/4 to make great records, everyone would just go out and buy "Music Theory For Dummies" and make records.

    What interests me more is the artistry that goes into it. If catchy melodies support that, then that's great. But if you don't have a strong artistic/inspired base for the songs, it won't matter how catchy the songs are to me.

    Sorry I think maybe I over-simplified my point, there is nothing to say the melodies can't be complex, of course anyone can write catchy pop rock type stuff, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the pop perfection of songs like Today and Tonight Tonight, compared with the rather dull Appels and Oranjes or Try Try Try.
  • We All Believe
    We All Believe Eastchester, NY - Proud South Canadian. Posts: 863
    Ginger is the only thing Billy's gotten right with this reunion thing. Wah wah wee wah!

    The Zeitgeist production was poor.

    The album is sub-par to this longtime TSP fan. It has it's moments (when Starz rocks out, the single, US), but it lacks as a whole.

    The 4 different albums also pissed me off.

    But as long as Jimmy Chamberlin's involved, I'll buy it. He's the best drummer in rock today.
    May your days be long, til kingdom come.
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    We All Believe wrote:
    Ginger is the only thing Billy's gotten right with this reunion thing. Wah wah wee wah!

    The Zeitgeist production was poor.

    The album is sub-par to this longtime TSP fan. It has it's moments (when Starz rocks out, the single, US), but it lacks as a whole.

    The 4 different albums also pissed me off.

    But as long as Jimmy Chamberlin's involved, I'll buy it. He's the best drummer in rock today.

    thats quite an accurate summary
  • jsaso
    jsaso Posts: 179
    I BrisK I wrote:
    why kid

    its incredibly lame and not funny

    hmmm...
    i bet you like nu-metal
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    jsaso wrote:
    hmmm...
    i bet you like nu-metal

    LOL

    basing that on what....

    fuck you even more for accusing me of that!

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