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Zeitgeist. Not as good as SM, MCAIS or Adore but better than Machina.

Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
edited July 2007 in Other Music
I'm so torn on this album. I thinking Bleeind the Orchid is fucking amazing as is Doomsday Clock and United States but it goes off the rails track 8 onwards, where it all begins to sound like Machina era twaddle.

As a Pumpkin fan however I do find it weird how many diss Adore.

Not bad effort but we'll see how Billy sticks around this time.
'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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Comments

  • jsasojsaso Posts: 179
    well...my fav songs are united states, neverlost, bring the light and pomp...so...all of them in the second part of the album
  • intodeepintodeep Posts: 7,240
    i need to digest it more. I really like bleeding the orchid a lot too. I guess my favs right now are
    -bleeding the orchid- just love thesound
    -united states (last 1:35 seconds is so awesome espcially live)
    -tarantula- has that old school chorus, melting into a ripping guitar solo and soaring into an outstanding outro this is classic pumpkins to me

    those three stand out the most to me to begin with. for some reason doomsday clock is not as cool to me as others find it.

    I do like bring the light and i think i will grow to like it even more.

    The other songs i'm sure will grow.

    Siamese Dream
    Mellon Collie
    Gish
    Adore
    Machina

    That is how i rate them now Zeitgeist will end up behind Mellon Collie but ahead of Machina. Not sure where yet though. Most likely between Adore and Gish.
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  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    I'm so torn on this album. I thinking Bleeind the Orchid is fucking amazing as is Doomsday Clock and United States but it goes off the rails track 8 onwards, where it all begins to sound like Machina era twaddle.

    As a Pumpkin fan however I do find it weird how many diss Adore.

    Not bad effort but we'll see how Billy sticks around this time.
    I agree with everything you said, but I like a couple tracks in the end (8, 10, 11, 13 (Zeitgeist)) and only hate That's the Way with a passion out of the first half.
  • dharma69dharma69 Posts: 1,275
    The album sounds like a mess to me.

    But then I'm not a fan of SP....but I also like to think I'm fairly objective even about things I don't like.

    Yet I like the last track a lot.
    "I'm here to see Pearl Jam."- Bono

    ...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.

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  • yield2meyield2me Posts: 1,291
    listening to it now for the first time. It is solid, not their best but solid none the less. I might be in the minority on this one but I really liked Machina and wish the band would have stayed going in that direction. I don't think this new record sounds anything like Machina by the way...much more like Zwan if you ask me.
    “May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    It's certainly more solid and consistent than Adore and Machina, obviously not quite as good as SD or Mellon Collie, but then what did anyone expect? It does have some great songs on there, only a couple that I skip.
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,567
    disagree

    its the worst

    billy cant back himself.. it isn't raw like old sp... vocals too clean

    HOWEVER

    the live versions of the songs are fucking awesome
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    I BrisK I wrote:
    disagree

    its the worst

    billy cant back himself.. it isn't raw like old sp... vocals too clean

    HOWEVER

    the live versions of the songs are fucking awesome


    Well you're wrong! It's better than Adore by default, since Jimmy Chamberlin didn't play on Adore, and his drumming on Zeitgeist is INCREDIBLE.
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    I like the Machinas better. In fact, on the right day I'd say the Machinas are Corgan's best work. It's all a matter of who you're talking to and what mood they're in. I really appreciate the fact that Corgan can make such diverse music and still have all of it sound like the Smashing Pumpkins.

    I give Zeitgeist a 3.5/5. Nice job, Bill.

    Edit: Zeitgeist definetly kicks it's own ass live. They should've recorded the actual album at the Orange Peel.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

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  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,567
    facepollution wrote:
    Well you're wrong! It's better than Adore by default, since Jimmy Chamberlin didn't play on Adore, and his drumming on Zeitgeist is INCREDIBLE.


    yes jimmy is always fucking INCREDIBLE :)

    adore is fucking wicked becuase if you heard any of the live shows... they have normal drums and the songs are totallly wiiickeddddddddddddd.... once you hear 98 boots.. you dont really like the album..

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=4jJC9Sgne3c

    for e.g.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Ds-fPZUdb0
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Pk0FGsj_sA
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=h7tj3MhxxOU
  • DaytimeDilemmaDaytimeDilemma Posts: 2,008
    I BrisK I wrote:
    disagree

    its the worst

    billy cant back himself.. it isn't raw like old sp... vocals too clean

    HOWEVER

    the live versions of the songs are fucking awesome


    I agree. The live versions of the songs do sound more raw and untamed, but the album does feel weak and lacks a real feeling of power.
  • MCGMCG Posts: 780
    Not a bad album, but nothing special about it either. Overall its better than I thought it would be.
    Which came first,
    the bad idea or me befallen by it?
  • dannydanny Posts: 2,279
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    I'm so torn on this album. I thinking Bleeind the Orchid is fucking amazing as is Doomsday Clock and United States but it goes off the rails track 8 onwards, where it all begins to sound like Machina era twaddle.

    As a Pumpkin fan however I do find it weird how many diss Adore.

    Not bad effort but we'll see how Billy sticks around this time.
    should have changed the bands name theres only two of them
    danny d
  • orig_long redorig_long red Posts: 2,029
    God and Country is perhaps one of the worst songs i've ever heard...the album version that is....i heard a live version and its waaaaaaaaay better. whats up with that, Billy?!
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • deadmosquitodeadmosquito Posts: 729
    what's up with the shit vocal recordings? i mean i like a lot of the songs musically, but vocally they are just ruined. doomsday clock is a great example. whoever decided to make the backup vocals louder than the main vocal track was retarded and needs to be shot. it sounds unbelievably bad to me. and it's like that on almost every song. it totally ruins the experience. the vocals in the first place should have been way lower in the mix, and there's no reason for the background parts to be louder than the main vox tracks. it makes me not even want to listen to the album again.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    danny wrote:
    should have changed the bands name theres only two of them

    The same two that recorded Siamese Dream by themselves, without help from Iha and D'arcy - so should they go back and rename that album too? Fucking stupid argument.
  • jsasojsaso Posts: 179
    this thread is kidna lame
  • intodeepintodeep Posts: 7,240
    deadmosquito wrote:
    what's up with the shit vocal recordings? i mean i like a lot of the songs musically, but vocally they are just ruined. doomsday clock is a great example. whoever decided to make the backup vocals louder than the main vocal track was retarded and needs to be shot. it sounds unbelievably bad to me. and it's like that on almost every song. it totally ruins the experience. the vocals in the first place should have been way lower in the mix, and there's no reason for the background parts to be louder than the main vox tracks. it makes me not even want to listen to the album again.

    I agree the vocals are holding this one back.
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  • justamjustam Posts: 21,412
    I like it much more than Machina.
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  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    I think this album is awful...not even comparable to Adore or anything before Adore. Bad lyrics, horrible vocals, etc. Track 6 is the only song on there that comes close to showing what he's capable of creating. Corgan's standards should be way above this by now though. It just seems like he wanted to put out another album just to put out another album...very uninspired material imo.

    YUCKY!
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Not comparable to Adore?! Do me a fucking favour! For a start it has the majestic drumming of Jimmy Chamberlin, and more importantly some fucking memorable songs. Aside from a few tracks like To Sheila, Ava Adore, Perfect and Crestfallen, Adore was a grade A snore-fest. At least Zeitgeist has some life to it, sure it's not perfect, but it comes far closer to bringing back their original energy than Adore/Machina/Zwan combined.

    And seriously, people expected 'good' vocals from Billy Corgan? The guy has ALWAYS been an average singer, his true talents lie in his amazing guitar playing and writing hook filled melodies, which is why Adore and Machina weren't so good, because the guitars were toned down and the melodies watered down.
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,412
    Yeah, his singing really isn't his strong point, but he can write music so we forgive him. ;):D
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    It's funny, cause despite his nasally whine of a voice, I actually quite like it - maybe becasue it's so distinctive, but most probably because it evokes some of the greatest songs of the last ten years or so...
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,412
    facepollution wrote:
    It's funny, cause despite his nasally whine of a voice, I actually quite like it - maybe becasue it's so distinctive, but most probably because it evokes some of the greatest songs of the last ten years or so...

    It's fine for what he's doing. Sometimes Billy really can't get hold his tunes live though...he's not as reliable as Ed that way. :)
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  • jsasojsaso Posts: 179
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    jsaso wrote:
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?

    I could start some new Chris Cornell ones to combat them if you like? ;)
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,567
    jsaso wrote:
    way to many zeitgeist threads keep popping up...
    i wonder way?

    fuck you

    anyway i think it was bad idea playing the tracks live.. becuase listening the album really sucks compared to all the lives versions i have heard..

    hehe good one John.. yeh lets make some cornell threads so weiners like jsaso dont visit this place
  • jsasojsaso Posts: 179
    I BrisK I wrote:
    fuck you

    anyway i think it was bad idea playing the tracks live.. becuase listening the album really sucks compared to all the lives versions i have heard..

    hehe good one John.. yeh lets make some cornell threads so weiners like jsaso dont visit this place

    hey marry poppins i was kidding
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,567
    jsaso wrote:
    hey marry poppins i was kidding

    why kid

    its incredibly lame and not funny
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    facepollution wrote:
    Not comparable to Adore?! Do me a fucking favour! For a start it has the majestic drumming of Jimmy Chamberlin, and more importantly some fucking memorable songs. Aside from a few tracks like To Sheila, Ava Adore, Perfect and Crestfallen, Adore was a grade A snore-fest. At least Zeitgeist has some life to it, sure it's not perfect, but it comes far closer to bringing back their original energy than Adore/Machina/Zwan combined.

    And seriously, people expected 'good' vocals from Billy Corgan? The guy has ALWAYS been an average singer, his true talents lie in his amazing guitar playing and writing hook filled melodies, which is why Adore and Machina weren't so good, because the guitars were toned down and the melodies watered down.

    I dunno, I just feel like the material that appears on Adore comes from an inspired artist. The material on Zeitgeist seems like it's coming from someone who desperately wants to put his band back together, and not someone who is highly inspired to necessarily create new material. The lyrics and style on Adore are much better imo. The drumming makes no difference. Smashing Pumpkins is Billy Corgan backed up by 3 or 4 other people...doesn't matter who they are. It's the same with NIN.

    And when I say bad vocals, I don't mean his voice...I mean the way the vocals were mixed in...bad production or something.

    P.S. - what's the favor I should do?
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