trust me, I'm not "worked up" about this. in 2007, I really couldn't care less about either one of these bands anymore, though I liked both of them through the 90s. but, as far as music history, Nirvana is far more important than SP ever will be. and if you take a poll of a million people, I can pretty much guarantee you that Nirvana would get 75% of the votes. does this mean Nirvana were better musicians? no, I think it's fairly safe to safe that SP were better musicians than Nirvana. does it mean Nirvana was a better band? again, no, because that's all opinion. so it pretty much comes down to who had the biggest impact and who's had the lasting impact, and that was Nirvana and that's something that can't even be disputed.
and thats all i've been saying to you for 5 pages. i agree nirvana is the most important band since the ramones or the clash and i respect them for that, does it make them good i think not, but hey thats my opinon take it or leave it. i dont have any hate towards you and hopefully you dont towards me, i bet your a really cool guy. i would of have loved to been a teen in the early 90s, but im not so i live with it. im so glad at least one band from the early 90s is still around.to me without pearljam and more so yield, i wouldnt have found all these bands like sg, aic, the pumpkins and stp
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I don't believe any of those bands would have ever made it big without Nirvana. you can disagree, but you don't have any proof to back it up. I don't care if you feel they're a "shit band" or not. yeah, Cobain wasn't exactly Hendrix on guitar. but it was good enough to change the entire face of music. SP didn't do that, and I still say they never would have.
You can disagree as well, but you have no proof to back up your claims either. Like I mentioned earlier, this whole thread is based around improvable ideas. But, IMO the pumpkins made the pumpkins. And the pumpkins would have been the pumpkins regardless of Kurt. But again, just an opinion.
You can disagree as well, but you have no proof to back up your claims either. Like I mentioned earlier, this whole thread is based around improvable ideas. But, IMO the pumpkins made the pumpkins. And the pumpkins would have been the pumpkins regardless of Kurt. But again, just an opinion.
yeh
i doubt Nirvana made the pumpkins big becuase of the awesome albums they made. Also were pumpkins considered part of the "grunge" thing? becuase would the pumpkins and nirvana play with each other that much?
i doubt Nirvana made the pumpkins big becuase of the awesome albums they made. Also were pumpkins considered part of the "grunge" thing? becuase would the pumpkins and nirvana play with each other that much?
they weren't considered "grunge" but they WERE considered part of the movement that put indie/college bands into the mainstream spotlight, a movement that wasn't around until Nirvana blew up.
metsfan, perhaps we've been misunderstanding each other the whole thread. my problem is not with anyone saying they like SP better or think SP is a better band. my problem is when people dismiss Nirvana as just another band and fail to recognize the crucial role they played in music.
Nirvana all the way, they did more for music in 5 years than SP have done in 10+ years
Siamese dream was an masterpiece and, mellon collie have so many fillers in. Get out siamese dream, incesticide ´b sides album´ can beat any album of smashing pumpkins...
i sat with a sp fan on the bus back in school. i heard alot of their non-radio stuff. some kid brought in utero to music class and played milk it. so i heard one non-radio nirvana song to almost the everything sp did up to that point.
to this day i own 0sp and like 10nirvana releases, not counting bootlegs.
thanks for the history lesson asshat i already knew that. what are ya gonna do tell me bout woodstock and montrey(sp) :rolleyes:.i was 4 or 5 when ten came and yet im a huge fan of pearl jam so your post is worng there.i dont like green day nor do i like the offspring, so again your post is wrong.and why did cobain kill himself for, gee cause he was to popular hence the term sell out.acknowledge what, acknowledge that kurt fucking killed himself and all of a sudden became a legend. face it if kurt didnt kill himself, nirvana would be like everyother band from the 90s. and get it through your ignorant skull that nirvana never was a punk band, they were pop-punk
fyi-i dont like any bands from the last 10-15 years so again your post is wrong
Thats hillarious one minute you say you're a huge Pearl Jam fan and admit to liking BLink 182, then you say you dont like any bands from the last ten to fifteen years? HELLO.:)
Nirvana was the biggest thing in music since the Beatles BEFORE Kurt killed himself not because Kurt killed himself, that is a fact, Kurt did not sell Nirvana out, Nirvana became huge and the music press jumped all over it turning it into a circus. All Kurt did was be himself.
I'll agree that Nirvava helped popularize the grunge movement, but they didn't really influence a lot of bands. Though most of them suck, Smashing Pumpkins have influenced a lot of bands.
I'll agree that Nirvava helped popularize the grunge movement, but they didn't really influence a lot of bands. Though most of them suck, Smashing Pumpkins have influenced a lot of bands.
whoa, you are WAY off on that one. geez, Nirvana was ripped off by pretty much every new band to hit the radio at least up to the mid to late 90s. the only band that I can really say were heavily influenced by SP is Our Lady Peace.
I think I should defend Nirvana for the simple fact that many people here agree that The Smashing Pumpkins are far better musicians than Nirvana.
Let's examine this for a second.
1. Kurt, while not exactly Eddie Vedder, did have a voice with something unique at the time - the ability to scream on pitch (Listen to the end of "Lounge Act" from Nevermind). Singers before him who screamed just screamed. Yes, he was questionable live sometimes, but Billy REALLY struggles to get a handle on his songs live pitch-wise to this day. While Billy has a distinctive voice, it's really just kind a whine.
2. Yes, Billy is a far superior guitarist. No argument there. Plus SP had 2 guitarists, so it's almost an unfair comparison.
3. While Krist Novoselic is no virtuoso on the bass, he IS melodic and no one, NO ONE could ever say D'Arcy was better. Billy re-tracked all of her parts for her for God's sake...ugh.
4. Now, the big one. Dave and Jimmy. Two of the best ever, really. Jimmy is flashy, technical, and soooo talented, but...I think I'll have to go with Dave on this one, simply because he is more powerful. Perhaps its a matter of preference, but I love it when a drummer brings the thunder like Dave always has. Plus Dave is just as technically sound as Jimmy, and maybe even a bit more creative (I know some people are starting to get really upset) - think of how Dave has been able to adapt his style to all the different bands he's played with over the last 15 years. I mean, the Queens of the Stone Age album was a revelation unto itself, but did anyone hear the Killing Joke album he did???? Unbelievable!!! It's hard to knock Jimmy in any way because he trully is terrific, but Dave is simply the best.
So that was my attempt to defend the oft-knocked musicianship of Nirvana. Peace.
I think I should defend Nirvana for the simple fact that many people here agree that The Smashing Pumpkins are far better musicians than Nirvana.
Let's examine this for a second.
1. Kurt, while not exactly Eddie Vedder, did have a voice with something unique at the time - the ability to scream on pitch (Listen to the end of "Lounge Act" from Nevermind). Singers before him who screamed just screamed. Yes, he was questionable live sometimes, but Billy REALLY struggles to get a handle on his songs live pitch-wise to this day. While Billy has a distinctive voice, it's really just kind a whine.
2. Yes, Billy is a far superior guitarist. No argument there. Plus SP had 2 guitarists, so it's almost an unfair comparison.
3. While Krist Novoselic is no virtuoso on the bass, he IS melodic and no one, NO ONE could ever say D'Arcy was better. Billy re-tracked all of her parts for her for God's sake...ugh.
4. Now, the big one. Dave and Jimmy. Two of the best ever, really. Jimmy is flashy, technical, and soooo talented, but...I think I'll have to go with Dave on this one, simply because he is more powerful. Perhaps its a matter of preference, but I love it when a drummer brings the thunder like Dave always has. Plus Dave is just as technically sound as Jimmy, and maybe even a bit more creative (I know some people are starting to get really upset) - think of how Dave has been able to adapt his style to all the different bands he's played with over the last 15 years. I mean, the Queens of the Stone Age album was a revelation unto itself, but did anyone hear the Killing Joke album he did???? Unbelievable!!! It's hard to knock Jimmy in any way because he trully is terrific, but Dave is simply the best.
So that was my attempt to defend the oft-knocked musicianship of Nirvana. Peace.
All excellent points but they will fall on deaf ears here my friend.
You see a lot of people here love PJ so much, that they cant get past the fact that Kurt publicly dissed them, thats what it all boils down to here.
This riles people so much that they are prepared to rewrite history in their minds for their own gratification and hate towards someone who dared to say something against PJ.
Their love for Pearl Jam is so great that any critique of PJ is out of their minds and clearly insane, were you around these parts when Avocado was released? any slightly negative review or point made about the album was met with a five page thread questioning the mans/womans lineage, sexuality and ears and ultimately insulting them to the hilt, some even going as far to send emails to the site or publication that released it.
I think I should defend Nirvana for the simple fact that many people here agree that The Smashing Pumpkins are far better musicians than Nirvana.
4. Now, the big one. Dave and Jimmy. Two of the best ever, really. Jimmy is flashy, technical, and soooo talented, but...I think I'll have to go with Dave on this one, simply because he is more powerful. Perhaps its a matter of preference, but I love it when a drummer brings the thunder like Dave always has. Plus Dave is just as technically sound as Jimmy, and maybe even a bit more creative (I know some people are starting to get really upset) - think of how Dave has been able to adapt his style to all the different bands he's played with over the last 15 years. I mean, the Queens of the Stone Age album was a revelation unto itself, but did anyone hear the Killing Joke album he did???? Unbelievable!!! It's hard to knock Jimmy in any way because he trully is terrific, but Dave is simply the best.
/quote]
oh sorry.. just becuase jimmy hasn't been in a billion different band and hasn't been able to "adapt" that makes him bad? he was a jazz drummer....how the fudge cakes is dave more creative?? he just play the same ole drum beats ? ever heard any of jimmy's fills or anything!?
You know, I love Pearl Jam and Nirvana almost equally. Pearl Jam has a deeper catalog, has a wider variety, is a far superior live band, but in the end, it was Nirvana who I loved the most when I was wee...It was Nirvana who made me want to get off my ass and play guitar and start a band when I was 17. For these reasons, Nirvana will always have a special place in my heart...
And yes, Dave is more poweful than Jimmy. He just is. You can tell from both recordings AND watching them on DVDs such as Viewphoria or LiveTonightSold Out! Jimmy is not a thumper like Dave. Look, I gave Jimmy mad props in my last post - he trully is legendary, but Dave just edges him out a little IMO.
whoa, you are WAY off on that one. geez, Nirvana was ripped off by pretty much every new band to hit the radio at least up to the mid to late 90s. the only band that I can really say were heavily influenced by SP is Our Lady Peace.
Um...there are countless bands that the Pumpkins have inspired, some not so great but still...
As you mentioned...Our Lady Peace...but then there's:
My Chemical Romance
Silversun Pickups
Ben Kweller
The Bravery
Test Your Reflex
Pretty much every emo band out there today
Also, Pearl Jam has inspired way more bands than both SP or Nirvana:
Creed
Nickelback
Tonic
Stone Temple Pilots
Velvet Revolver
Staind
Puddle of Mudd
Collective Soul
Hinder
Chris Daughtry
The Strokes
Wolfmother
Kings of Leon
Dashboard Confessional
O.A.R.
Axl Rose (he was a big fan, and PJ influenced him on UYI albums)
Dishwalla
Toad the Wet Sprocket
7 Mary 3
Black Stone Cherry
Seether
I can't really think of any bands Nirvana inspired...
You know I'm not really trying to argue that Nirvana wasn't an important band. They definately had their place in music, but my argument is that they weren't influential as other bands were at the time.
Um...there are countless bands that the Pumpkins have inspired, some not so great but still...
As you mentioned...Our Lady Peace...but then there's:
My Chemical Romance
Silversun Pickups
Ben Kweller
The Bravery
Test Your Reflex
Pretty much every emo band out there today
Also, Pearl Jam has inspired way more bands than both SP or Nirvana:
Creed
Nickelback
Tonic
Stone Temple Pilots
Velvet Revolver
Staind
Puddle of Mudd
Collective Soul
Hinder
Chris Daughtry
The Strokes
Wolfmother
Kings of Leon
Dashboard Confessional
O.A.R.
Axl Rose (he was a big fan, and PJ influenced him on UYI albums)
Dishwalla
Toad the Wet Sprocket
7 Mary 3
Black Stone Cherry
Seether
I can't really think of any bands Nirvana inspired...
try the majority of the bands you listed.
Add the likes of Local H, Nine Black Alps and countless fucking others.
Um...there are countless bands that the Pumpkins have inspired, some not so great but still...
As you mentioned...Our Lady Peace...but then there's:
My Chemical Romance
Silversun Pickups
Ben Kweller
The Bravery
Test Your Reflex
Pretty much every emo band out there today
Also, Pearl Jam has inspired way more bands than both SP or Nirvana:
Creed
Nickelback
Tonic
Stone Temple Pilots
Velvet Revolver
Staind
Puddle of Mudd
Collective Soul
Hinder
Chris Daughtry
The Strokes
Wolfmother
Kings of Leon
Dashboard Confessional
O.A.R.
Axl Rose (he was a big fan, and PJ influenced him on UYI albums)
Dishwalla
Toad the Wet Sprocket
7 Mary 3
Black Stone Cherry
Seether
I can't really think of any bands Nirvana inspired...
You know I'm not really trying to argue that Nirvana wasn't an important band. They definately had their place in music, but my argument is that they weren't influential as other bands were at the time.
id agree with most of this but puddle of mudd is a nirvana rip-off. pj cant be blamed for that. and id even say nickelback. nickelback first sounded like bush and bush was the most obvious nirvana rip off in the late 90's
half the bands you listed were Nirvana knockoffs, NOT PJ knockoffs. and several of the bands were more like Hootie and the Blowfish and were not influenced in any way by Nirvana, PJ, or SP. Tonic and Toad the wet Sprocket? um, sorry, no. and Collective Soul was much more influenced by Black Crowes and southern rock than by any grunge band.
it's hard 15 years after fact to try to think of all the bands that were Nirvana knockoffs. but here's some I could remember.......
Local H
Toadies
Pearl Jam (yep, maybe not so much on the Ten, but on all the subsequent releases)
Veruca Salt
Green Day
Offspring
Blink 182
Puddle of Mudd (a PJ ripoff? I guess you never heard any of their songs)
Hole (well, most of their early songs were written by Kurt, so)
Foo Fighters (again, not so much of a ripoff because it was actually founded by a Nirvana member)
Bush (probably the biggest Nirvana ripoff)
the Strokes (again, a PJ ripoff? sorry, that's Nirvana style of music)
the Vines
White Stripes
and at least a 150 more that I can't remember at this point. hell, most bands would even tell you they were hugely influenced by Nirvana. and yeah, PJ and AIC had a ton of knockoff bands too. but not SP. again, the only band I can think of that truly sounds like an SP knockoff is Our Lady Peace. of the list you came up with, My Chemical Romance are the only ones I've ever heard of. and the little I've heard from them, they suck ass.
first off whats wrong with preferring Live's Throwing Copper over Nirvana's Nevermind? Why would anyone think thats a joke? ... Although i like nevermind better, i own throwing copper and its a pretty badass album.
and second, i have never thought of bush as a nirvana rip-off... i have 3 bush albums and, other than a slight resemblence in the vocals, i see absolutely no likenesses between nirvana and bush. or am i wrong?
in my opinion nirvana just gets too boring way too fast, which is why they are not a favorite of mine. no other reason.
p.s. the white stripes are nirvana knock offs? really? lol no i dont think so. maybe they were influenced by them, but blues-rock is like the opposite side of the spectrum compared with grunge
first off whats wrong with preferring Live's Throwing Copper over Nirvana's Nevermind? Why would anyone think thats a joke? ... Although i like nevermind better, i own throwing copper and its a pretty badass album.
and second, i have never thought of bush as a nirvana rip-off... i have 3 bush albums and, other than a slight resemblence in the vocals, i see absolutely no likenesses between nirvana and bush. or am i wrong?
in my opinion nirvana just gets too boring way too fast, which is why they are not a favorite of mine. no other reason.
p.s. the white stripes are nirvana knock offs? really? lol no i dont think so. maybe they were influenced by them, but blues-rock is like the opposite side of the spectrum compared with grunge
Throwing Copper was well received and Live were acclaimed at that time. it was a good album and so was Secret Samadhi. it was only after that they became somewhat of a parody.
most people would agree that Bush were Nirvana ripoffs. more produced than Nirvana, but still ripoffs. they were trashed as that. their singer wrote the most incohesive lyrics that he could come up with in an effort to try to be like Cobain, and his singing was also similar to Cobains.
I see it as easy to become bored with Nirvana since they've been known now for almost 20 years and there's only really 3 albums and a bside album to go off.
I don't think I'd go so far as to call White Stripes "blues-rock". they are more akin to what Nirvana would sound like if they had ever decided to make a blues album. and a lot of their earlier songs like 7 nation army, fell in love with a girl, and dead leaves were very very much like Nirvana songs.
going back about twenty posts or so someone mentioned that billy made Gish sound college rock for cred? look corgan is a fucking attention whore, I mean the pumkpins had to be "big or not at all" and people are calling Kurt a sellout? The more I see of SP the more I'm amazed I used to like them that much. Not only are Nirvana's albums far better and hold up way more but they DID inspire shitloads of bands. Just because more bands sound like the punpkins than nirvana or more shitty singers rip off Ed than Kurt it doesn't mean they are more influential. Kurt Cobain made a lot of peole pick up a guitar and want to play (present company included). Nirvana had emotion that was real, he was authentic. Everything Billy Corgan has done either seems or has been completly contrived
"I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
Chris Cornell
Bush a Nirvana knock off? No way dude, definately a Pearl Jam ripoff...
I even remember reading that the members of Collective Soul were into bands like Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam back in the 90's, but I'm not denying that Black Crowes could've had some influence...
Uh dude, I've listened to Puddle of Mudd's first and second albums. The first had a couple of decent songs, but it was definately Pearl Jam influenced. Even Wes Scantlin has said Pearl Jam was his fav. band and Ten was his all time fav. album. LOOK AT THE ARTWORK IN THE FIRST ALBUM!!! It's very similar to the artwork in Ten, the script, the way it's presented, everything...
most people would agree that Bush were Nirvana ripoffs. more produced than Nirvana, but still ripoffs. they were trashed as that. their singer wrote the most incohesive lyrics that he could come up with in an effort to try to be like Cobain, and his singing was also similar to Cobains.
I see it as easy to become bored with Nirvana since they've been known now for almost 20 years and there's only really 3 albums and a bside album to go off.
I don't think I'd go so far as to call White Stripes "blues-rock". they are more akin to what Nirvana would sound like if they had ever decided to make a blues album. and a lot of their earlier songs like 7 nation army, fell in love with a girl, and dead leaves were very very much like Nirvana songs.
i just dont see the comparison between bush and nirvana. have you heard the science of things? bush is so electronic sounding where as nirvana is so dry. and if you actually read bushs lyrics, i believe they are some of the best ive ever heard. and gavin rossdale writes his lyrics regardless of beat and rhythym. where as kurt cobain didnt care as much what his lyrics said as long as they go along with the song. kurt cobain used the word "yea" way more than it should ever be used in music. period.
white stripes might sound like waht nirvana would sound like if they ever decided to make a blues album but thats not much of an arguement. maybe the songs u mentioned do sound something like nirvana but if youve listened to all of icky thump you wont find any comparisons to nirvana. besides the title track in someway you could try and link it to nirvana. other than that its very blues-rock
Um...there are countless bands that the Pumpkins have inspired, some not so great but still...
Stone Temple Pilots
Um... Stone Temple Pilots was playing in San Diego clubs in the late 80s. As has been said before, who was living in San Diego in the late 80s? It could have been the other way around, doubtful, but could have been.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Bush DID go on to be something unique by the time of "Science..", but when they started out? They were total Nirvana knockoffs. I don't know if that was due to any sort of label pressure, or what, but they sounded more like Nirvana on the debut album than anyone right after Kurt died. I thought that was the most obvious one...
Puddle of Mudd singer Wes Scantlin has also professed how Nirvana was his favorite band of all time - he even co-hosted a tribute to Kurt show on the 10th aniversary of his death - so, yeah; the guy is all over the place saying this that and the other thing was his favorite band. I also think Puddle of Mudd sounds waaaaaaaaay more like Nirvana than Pearl Jam. He sings more like Kurt, the soft-verse/loud-chorus style of the songs, the fact that there is absolutely no difficult guitar playing on any of their stuff....I just don't see Pearl Jam as a bigger influence on them. Maybe the artwork like you were saying, but that's about it.
other than gavin rossdales voice i still dont see any other comparison between bush and nirvana. Sixteen stone had a couple songs that drew comparisons to nirvana but if you listen to alien youll see right away they are nothing like nirvana. Alien shows the electronic feel that they eventually used more in science of things. and thats what theyre all about. nd if u listen to glycerine youll see they used violins in their music. something nirvana would never do
ahh, how i love all this Nirvana douche on my pearl jam message board.
fuck, i almost forgot to piss in the drink water: Nirvana is the epitome of bad rock n' roll. fucking trailer trash paintbrushes.
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Comments
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
You can disagree as well, but you have no proof to back up your claims either. Like I mentioned earlier, this whole thread is based around improvable ideas. But, IMO the pumpkins made the pumpkins. And the pumpkins would have been the pumpkins regardless of Kurt. But again, just an opinion.
yeh
i doubt Nirvana made the pumpkins big becuase of the awesome albums they made. Also were pumpkins considered part of the "grunge" thing? becuase would the pumpkins and nirvana play with each other that much?
they weren't considered "grunge" but they WERE considered part of the movement that put indie/college bands into the mainstream spotlight, a movement that wasn't around until Nirvana blew up.
metsfan, perhaps we've been misunderstanding each other the whole thread. my problem is not with anyone saying they like SP better or think SP is a better band. my problem is when people dismiss Nirvana as just another band and fail to recognize the crucial role they played in music.
Siamese dream was an masterpiece and, mellon collie have so many fillers in. Get out siamese dream, incesticide ´b sides album´ can beat any album of smashing pumpkins...
to this day i own 0sp and like 10nirvana releases, not counting bootlegs.
Thats hillarious one minute you say you're a huge Pearl Jam fan and admit to liking BLink 182, then you say you dont like any bands from the last ten to fifteen years? HELLO.:)
Nirvana was the biggest thing in music since the Beatles BEFORE Kurt killed himself not because Kurt killed himself, that is a fact, Kurt did not sell Nirvana out, Nirvana became huge and the music press jumped all over it turning it into a circus. All Kurt did was be himself.
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
whoa, you are WAY off on that one. geez, Nirvana was ripped off by pretty much every new band to hit the radio at least up to the mid to late 90s. the only band that I can really say were heavily influenced by SP is Our Lady Peace.
Let's examine this for a second.
1. Kurt, while not exactly Eddie Vedder, did have a voice with something unique at the time - the ability to scream on pitch (Listen to the end of "Lounge Act" from Nevermind). Singers before him who screamed just screamed. Yes, he was questionable live sometimes, but Billy REALLY struggles to get a handle on his songs live pitch-wise to this day. While Billy has a distinctive voice, it's really just kind a whine.
2. Yes, Billy is a far superior guitarist. No argument there. Plus SP had 2 guitarists, so it's almost an unfair comparison.
3. While Krist Novoselic is no virtuoso on the bass, he IS melodic and no one, NO ONE could ever say D'Arcy was better. Billy re-tracked all of her parts for her for God's sake...ugh.
4. Now, the big one. Dave and Jimmy. Two of the best ever, really. Jimmy is flashy, technical, and soooo talented, but...I think I'll have to go with Dave on this one, simply because he is more powerful. Perhaps its a matter of preference, but I love it when a drummer brings the thunder like Dave always has. Plus Dave is just as technically sound as Jimmy, and maybe even a bit more creative (I know some people are starting to get really upset) - think of how Dave has been able to adapt his style to all the different bands he's played with over the last 15 years. I mean, the Queens of the Stone Age album was a revelation unto itself, but did anyone hear the Killing Joke album he did???? Unbelievable!!! It's hard to knock Jimmy in any way because he trully is terrific, but Dave is simply the best.
So that was my attempt to defend the oft-knocked musicianship of Nirvana. Peace.
All excellent points but they will fall on deaf ears here my friend.
You see a lot of people here love PJ so much, that they cant get past the fact that Kurt publicly dissed them, thats what it all boils down to here.
This riles people so much that they are prepared to rewrite history in their minds for their own gratification and hate towards someone who dared to say something against PJ.
Their love for Pearl Jam is so great that any critique of PJ is out of their minds and clearly insane, were you around these parts when Avocado was released? any slightly negative review or point made about the album was met with a five page thread questioning the mans/womans lineage, sexuality and ears and ultimately insulting them to the hilt, some even going as far to send emails to the site or publication that released it.
And yes, Dave is more poweful than Jimmy. He just is. You can tell from both recordings AND watching them on DVDs such as Viewphoria or LiveTonightSold Out! Jimmy is not a thumper like Dave. Look, I gave Jimmy mad props in my last post - he trully is legendary, but Dave just edges him out a little IMO.
Um...there are countless bands that the Pumpkins have inspired, some not so great but still...
As you mentioned...Our Lady Peace...but then there's:
My Chemical Romance
Silversun Pickups
Ben Kweller
The Bravery
Test Your Reflex
Pretty much every emo band out there today
Also, Pearl Jam has inspired way more bands than both SP or Nirvana:
Creed
Nickelback
Tonic
Stone Temple Pilots
Velvet Revolver
Staind
Puddle of Mudd
Collective Soul
Hinder
Chris Daughtry
The Strokes
Wolfmother
Kings of Leon
Dashboard Confessional
O.A.R.
Axl Rose (he was a big fan, and PJ influenced him on UYI albums)
Dishwalla
Toad the Wet Sprocket
7 Mary 3
Black Stone Cherry
Seether
I can't really think of any bands Nirvana inspired...
You know I'm not really trying to argue that Nirvana wasn't an important band. They definately had their place in music, but my argument is that they weren't influential as other bands were at the time.
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
try the majority of the bands you listed.
Add the likes of Local H, Nine Black Alps and countless fucking others.
id agree with most of this but puddle of mudd is a nirvana rip-off. pj cant be blamed for that. and id even say nickelback. nickelback first sounded like bush and bush was the most obvious nirvana rip off in the late 90's
it's hard 15 years after fact to try to think of all the bands that were Nirvana knockoffs. but here's some I could remember.......
Local H
Toadies
Pearl Jam (yep, maybe not so much on the Ten, but on all the subsequent releases)
Veruca Salt
Green Day
Offspring
Blink 182
Puddle of Mudd (a PJ ripoff? I guess you never heard any of their songs)
Hole (well, most of their early songs were written by Kurt, so)
Foo Fighters (again, not so much of a ripoff because it was actually founded by a Nirvana member)
Bush (probably the biggest Nirvana ripoff)
the Strokes (again, a PJ ripoff? sorry, that's Nirvana style of music)
the Vines
White Stripes
and at least a 150 more that I can't remember at this point. hell, most bands would even tell you they were hugely influenced by Nirvana. and yeah, PJ and AIC had a ton of knockoff bands too. but not SP. again, the only band I can think of that truly sounds like an SP knockoff is Our Lady Peace. of the list you came up with, My Chemical Romance are the only ones I've ever heard of. and the little I've heard from them, they suck ass.
and second, i have never thought of bush as a nirvana rip-off... i have 3 bush albums and, other than a slight resemblence in the vocals, i see absolutely no likenesses between nirvana and bush. or am i wrong?
in my opinion nirvana just gets too boring way too fast, which is why they are not a favorite of mine. no other reason.
p.s. the white stripes are nirvana knock offs? really? lol no i dont think so. maybe they were influenced by them, but blues-rock is like the opposite side of the spectrum compared with grunge
Throwing Copper was well received and Live were acclaimed at that time. it was a good album and so was Secret Samadhi. it was only after that they became somewhat of a parody.
most people would agree that Bush were Nirvana ripoffs. more produced than Nirvana, but still ripoffs. they were trashed as that. their singer wrote the most incohesive lyrics that he could come up with in an effort to try to be like Cobain, and his singing was also similar to Cobains.
I see it as easy to become bored with Nirvana since they've been known now for almost 20 years and there's only really 3 albums and a bside album to go off.
I don't think I'd go so far as to call White Stripes "blues-rock". they are more akin to what Nirvana would sound like if they had ever decided to make a blues album. and a lot of their earlier songs like 7 nation army, fell in love with a girl, and dead leaves were very very much like Nirvana songs.
that's all!
Chris Cornell
http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
I even remember reading that the members of Collective Soul were into bands like Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam back in the 90's, but I'm not denying that Black Crowes could've had some influence...
Uh dude, I've listened to Puddle of Mudd's first and second albums. The first had a couple of decent songs, but it was definately Pearl Jam influenced. Even Wes Scantlin has said Pearl Jam was his fav. band and Ten was his all time fav. album. LOOK AT THE ARTWORK IN THE FIRST ALBUM!!! It's very similar to the artwork in Ten, the script, the way it's presented, everything...
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
i just dont see the comparison between bush and nirvana. have you heard the science of things? bush is so electronic sounding where as nirvana is so dry. and if you actually read bushs lyrics, i believe they are some of the best ive ever heard. and gavin rossdale writes his lyrics regardless of beat and rhythym. where as kurt cobain didnt care as much what his lyrics said as long as they go along with the song. kurt cobain used the word "yea" way more than it should ever be used in music. period.
white stripes might sound like waht nirvana would sound like if they ever decided to make a blues album but thats not much of an arguement. maybe the songs u mentioned do sound something like nirvana but if youve listened to all of icky thump you wont find any comparisons to nirvana. besides the title track in someway you could try and link it to nirvana. other than that its very blues-rock
Puddle of Mudd singer Wes Scantlin has also professed how Nirvana was his favorite band of all time - he even co-hosted a tribute to Kurt show on the 10th aniversary of his death - so, yeah; the guy is all over the place saying this that and the other thing was his favorite band. I also think Puddle of Mudd sounds waaaaaaaaay more like Nirvana than Pearl Jam. He sings more like Kurt, the soft-verse/loud-chorus style of the songs, the fact that there is absolutely no difficult guitar playing on any of their stuff....I just don't see Pearl Jam as a bigger influence on them. Maybe the artwork like you were saying, but that's about it.
cello-not the same thing
and those songs sound nothing like anything bush has done. i think we can stop debating this. bush is clearly not a nirvana rip off
that is such bullshit.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
fuck, i almost forgot to piss in the drink water: Nirvana is the epitome of bad rock n' roll. fucking trailer trash paintbrushes.
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick