Harris vs Trump vs RFK Jr - VOTE NOW AND DISCUSS

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

I get it but I love the tactic. I'm still not sure how it would work...I assume just free from income tax rather than social security tax but a lot of service workers don't pay income tax anyway due to the high standard deduction.

Maybe it will be a deduction from income. So nothing really changes except if you have tips on your W-2 it gets deducted along with your standard deduction or something.

Of course with that scenario the workers will still say they are paying SS/medicare tax. But if you don't pay in something you won't get benefits later.

Zero chance this comes to fruition.  Harris and Trump can say it,  but it will never pass,  so there's no risk.   

And why should it be tax free anyway? It's income and a primary source of it.  Why don't I get 50% of my income tax free?  

I agree it's ridiculous. But I love how they shut down one of their main campaign themes.

I do too. Don't let that get any momentum.  Had to do it. 

OnWis97

Kamala Harris

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

I get it but I love the tactic. I'm still not sure how it would work...I assume just free from income tax rather than social security tax but a lot of service workers don't pay income tax anyway due to the high standard deduction.

Maybe it will be a deduction from income. So nothing really changes except if you have tips on your W-2 it gets deducted along with your standard deduction or something.

Of course with that scenario the workers will still say they are paying SS/medicare tax. But if you don't pay in something you won't get benefits later.

Zero chance this comes to fruition.  Harris and Trump can say it,  but it will never pass,  so there's no risk.   

And why should it be tax free anyway? It's income and a primary source of it.  Why don't I get 50% of my income tax free?  

Unfortunately, a candidate cannot get away with saying that, as true as it is.

OnWis97

Kamala Harris

tbergs said:

This is funny. I was at this bakery the other day and figured there'd be a news story about it. Based on its location and the clientele I observed, I'm not surprised by the week 1 results.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/red-wing-bakery-announces-week-1-results-of-its-2024-presidential-cookie-poll/

Trump should totally post about how MN is totally in play based on cookie sales. He should plan a visit there too.

"the people knew it...they knew the Trump cookies were delicious. And they ate them; very strongly. The Harris cookies; total losers. Tasted like dirt, which is what the radical left Democrats are made of. So they kept coming back for more Trump cookies. You can't see this and think that Kamala can win a fair election. Total loser of the bakery right there in the state of another loser, Tom Walz."

Spiritual_Chaos

"For all intents and purposes, a 50-50 toss up" says Nate Silver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nEhAW398vk

BF25394

Spiritual_Chaos said:

"For all intents and purposes, a 50-50 toss up" says Nate Silver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nEhAW398vk

Thom Yorke has really let himself go...

Halifax2TheMax

OnWis97 said:

tbergs said:

This is funny. I was at this bakery the other day and figured there'd be a news story about it. Based on its location and the clientele I observed, I'm not surprised by the week 1 results.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/red-wing-bakery-announces-week-1-results-of-its-2024-presidential-cookie-poll/

Trump should totally post about how MN is totally in play based on cookie sales. He should plan a visit there too.

"the people knew it...they knew the Trump cookies were delicious. And they ate them; very strongly. The Harris cookies; total losers. Tasted like dirt, which is what the radical left Democrats are made of. So they kept coming back for more Trump cookies. You can't see this and think that Kamala can win a fair election. Total loser of the bakery right there in the state of another loser, Tom Walz."

I think you meant to end with Tom Walrus.

Poncier

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

teskeinc

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

Gern Blansten

Donald Trump

teskeinc said:

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

It is though. That is their earnings for being employed by the restaurant.

teskeinc

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

It is though. That is their earnings for being employed by the restaurant.

Tips aren’t guaranteed unless it’s a party of 8 or over that some restaurants say they add a 15% or whatever gratuity. That would be the only guaranteed tips. 

Gern Blansten

Donald Trump

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

It is though. That is their earnings for being employed by the restaurant.

Tips aren’t guaranteed unless it’s a party of 8 or over that some restaurants say they add a 15% or whatever gratuity. That would be the only guaranteed tips. 

It's customary for the industry. That's how restaurants get away paying $2.13/hour. 

Johnny Abruzzo

Kamala Harris

It's an income tax. It's tax on your income. Tips are income. This is very simple.

teskeinc

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

It is though. That is their earnings for being employed by the restaurant.

Tips aren’t guaranteed unless it’s a party of 8 or over that some restaurants say they add a 15% or whatever gratuity. That would be the only guaranteed tips. 

Tips aren't guaranteed but a server makes $2.13 an hour minimum wage (federal).  If the server does not exceed the actual minimum wage, the restaurant has to raise the pay to get to minimum wage of the state/federal law, whichever one is greater.  So even though the tips aren't guaranteed, the restaurant or bar has to ensure they make at least that amount.  

That's why in the era before everything went credit, when most people tipped in cash, restaurants didn't care how much the servers claimed in tips so long as it met the federal minimum wage.  

When you look at people who get tipped today but are at the federal min wage level and not considered "tipped", they are not claiming those tips.  There probably isn't even a way for them to do it other than filing a 1099.  

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

teskeinc

Maybe those 80,000 new IRS employees can figure it out.

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

teskeinc said:

Maybe those 80,000 new IRS employees can figure it out.

Maybe they have something better to do, like going after people who hide material income, falsify exemptions, claiming personal expenses as business etc.  Stop being an inch deep.  

teskeinc

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

Gern Blansten

Donald Trump

Restaurants are required to report at least 8% of sales as tips too...so if employees aren't reporting enough they will get allocated a certain amount regardless.

And, as a tax preparer, a lot of the hairdressers do report their tips. (they likely don't report 100% but who knows)

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

teskeinc said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

Zero chance it gets through congress, IMO.  It will cost a few hundred billion in tax revenue over the next decade.  It's a wonderful campaign promise, but I would be absolutely shocked if this happens.  It also will change the way that employers pay and classify their employees, which has downstream effects that have not been analyzed.  It will completely restructure the labor market.  These promises are being made without any real thought (on both sides).  

BTW, this is a progressive wet dream and the least conservative idea I've heard all year.  Further proof that Trump is not a conservative.  Never has been, never will.  He is a populist at best, and more likely a panderer. 

Gern Blansten

Donald Trump

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

Zero chance it gets through congress, IMO.  It will cost a few hundred billion in tax revenue over the next decade.  It's a wonderful campaign promise, but I would be absolutely shocked if this happens.  It also will change the way that employers pay and classify their employees, which has downstream effects that have not been analyzed.  It will completely restructure the labor market.  These promises are being made without any real thought (on both sides).  

BTW, this is a progressive wet dream and the least conservative idea I've heard all year.  Further proof that Trump is not a conservative.  Never has been, never will.  He is a populist at best, and more likely a panderer. 

Yeah he's just pandering. Looking for something to get restaurant workers behind him even though most likely don't pay much federal tax anyway.

Some don't even have much federal withholding on their tips depending on how much they make. So this change could pass and it won't put any more money in their pockets anyway. I did see where Harris' plan will address income limits on this.

njhaley1

Kamala Harris

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

These promises are being made without any real thought (on both sides).  

There was plenty of thought put into it. 
Candidate 1 thought it would help his chances in a battleground state like Nevada. Pandering, as you say.
Candidate 2 wanted to show everyone what an empty promise it was. And if it weren't an empty promise, just how much one side in particular would resist. 

We saw it with immigration reform - one side is all hat and no cattle.     

gimmesometruth27

Kamala Harris

if this happens, how long until bribes become "tips"?

the supreme court ruled that they could be "tipped" after a decision is handed down.

Go Beavers

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

Zero chance it gets through congress, IMO.  It will cost a few hundred billion in tax revenue over the next decade.  It's a wonderful campaign promise, but I would be absolutely shocked if this happens.  It also will change the way that employers pay and classify their employees, which has downstream effects that have not been analyzed.  It will completely restructure the labor market.  These promises are being made without any real thought (on both sides).  

BTW, this is a progressive wet dream and the least conservative idea I've heard all year.  Further proof that Trump is not a conservative.  Never has been, never will.  He is a populist at best, and more likely a panderer. 

I think the skepticism with Trump on the issue is that he’s motivated to make this a tax break/loophole for certain wealthy people who will be able to call sources of income “tips”. 

Spiritual_Chaos

gimmesometruth27 said:

if this happens, how long until bribes become "tips"?

the supreme court ruled that they could be "tipped" after a decision is handed down.

If John Oliver has told me right, would that distinction matter?

BF25394

teskeinc said:

Poncier said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

And why exactly should service workers not pay income tax when everyone else has to is my question.

If someone gives you a tip of $5 for providing excellent service. Why should the government get $1-$2. It’s not your salary or wages. 

Because the income tax is an income tax, not a salary or wages tax. Income includes salary, wages, tips, prize money, investment growth, dividends, etc. I won a car once; the value of the car was income for me in that tax year. (I didn't mind at all. I got a new car for about $4,000.)

With regard to "under the table" payments that avoid taxation, it is not the government's responsibility to keep track of this; it is the citizen's responsibility to keep track of it and to report it accurately to the government. (I regularly win small amounts of money at a pub quiz. I report all of it.) Some people are ignorant of this responsibility. Others are willfully committing tax fraud. The latter is a crime. The seriousness of the crime is open to debate and may depend on the circumstances, but it's useful to keep in mind that many of the people who scream bloody murder about "illegals"-- many of whom have committed no crime because it is only a crime to enter the country without authorization, not simply to be in the country without authorization*-- commit petty crimes like failing to report all of their income or violate the law in other respects every day. I will never forget the time I was driving at the speed limit on the highway in the number-two lane, and a car blew by in the number-one lane at least 15 miles per hour faster than the limit, and the car had a bumper sticker that read, "What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand?" I wondered which part of "hypocrisy" that driver didn't understand. Perhaps we should brand everybody who speeds or rolls through stop signs or changes lanes across a solid line or without signaling as "illegals" since they are "illegal drivers." For some reason, it's only people who came here without authorization who have their entire identity reduced to "illegals." People who don't report all of their income are "illegals," too-- illegal tax evaders.

*Many people enter the country legally with a visa and then stay past the visa's expiration. This is a civil violation, not a crime.

mrussel1

Kamala Harris

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

mrussel1 said:

teskeinc said:

There’s so many variables with a no tax on tips. 

Comes down to how you are paid too I guess. If you’re a casino dealer and all your tips are pooled and you get a share daily added to a weekly paycheck that’s easier to tax. But should it be?

What about Uber drivers. No one is getting taxed on $5 cash. But if it’s $5 on the app then you get taxed because there is a paper trail.

Independent Contractors , hairstylists, massage therapist that charge a flat amount but you want to show appreciation by giving extra. 

The government knows these are “tipping” professions… that’s why they want their share. If you’re really looking to help the middle class you don’t tax tips. That’s a big amount of money back in their pocket.

Those non-tipped employees who are actually getting tipped (salons, chipotle, etc.) are not paying taxes today.  That's totally under the table.  Uber drivers may be different because Uber is able to track that and can report that to the IRS as taxable income.  But if you tip in cash, obviously they aren't claiming it.  

This proposal is not about contractors and stylists.  It's about service and hospitality workers, who are considered "tipped" under federal law.  

Trump had a great idea, I guess. So much that Kamala endorsed it. So I guess there will be no tax on tips either way.

Zero chance it gets through congress, IMO.  It will cost a few hundred billion in tax revenue over the next decade.  It's a wonderful campaign promise, but I would be absolutely shocked if this happens.  It also will change the way that employers pay and classify their employees, which has downstream effects that have not been analyzed.  It will completely restructure the labor market.  These promises are being made without any real thought (on both sides).  

BTW, this is a progressive wet dream and the least conservative idea I've heard all year.  Further proof that Trump is not a conservative.  Never has been, never will.  He is a populist at best, and more likely a panderer. 

I think the skepticism with Trump on the issue is that he’s motivated to make this a tax break/loophole for certain wealthy people who will be able to call sources of income “tips”. 

I think you're giving him way too much credit.  I don't think he gives a shit if this becomes policy or not.  All he cares about is winning Nevada and that's a heavy service state.  He said what he thinks he needs to do to win.  If he really meant it, it'd be a serious policy proposal and not something that he vomited out of his mouth.  

seanwon

Kamala Harris

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Let me put it on record I think both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris pandering to service workers with this "no taxes on tips" thing is a fucking joke. "Both sides" - take a shot peeps!

As someone who once upon a time ago managed a restaurant, it is absolutely a joke.  Believe me, servers are already taking 90% of their cash tips under the table.  Part time high school and college servers were bringing home more than I or the kitchen staff were. I used to tip a good 25-30%. Once NYS raised the minimum wage for servers to $10 an hour, and I saw how much the servers were making, I reduced that amount to 20ish%.   They shouldn't be making more than the managers and guys that run the kitchen.

JesseMcK

Kamala Harris

This has nothing to do with the topic - but yeah, I have never understood why I'm not tipping the people cooking the food.

benjs

If tips are tax-free, and salary isn't, why wouldn't both employers and employees want lower base salaries so they can earn more through tips which aren't subject to taxes? Wouldn't that effectively make tipping that much more important to an employee and realistically lead to a larger bill for customers? For shitty service, I still feel compelled to give 13% for the knowledge of how little servers will make if I don't. That number will have to increase if I know that the proportion of earning has shifted further towards tip-based compensation.