Children stabbed to death in the UK leading to riots

axeljohan

didn't say you made those comments in bad faith. Still think you could correct it now, if you know better.

lastexitlondon

Which would I correct. MI6 I have no idea . So that's the only thing as I said is something I'm not sure of. The news report at the time stated that. But it could be wrong. 
Everything else I said I stand by. 
Are you a parent.?
I have 4 children .
 1 son and 3 daughters. One is 6 the same age as those girls . I don't care where that horrible coward murderer is from or what his motive was. He should be handed over to the fathers of those girls and left with them. 
Who am I apologising to exactly?

lastexitlondon

axeljohan said:

lastexitlondon said:

You see many people say the word racism  this is not about a race or colour of  person. 

Then why do those asshole attack a mosque, when they think that the murderer was a muslim?

No I don't think that's ok either. I have no religion. And I've said many times I have no idea of his religion or care what it is. He cannot be religious if he killed infants  
The people attacking other people are wrong. Where in any post did I say otherwise 

lastexitlondon

The internet again is the cause of violence and division. I say there are people protesting every city  everyday  . Now some meat head lunatics found a way to latch on and attack everything .

axeljohan

You said the riots have nothing to do with racism. I beg to differ.

And thanks for asking, I have a nine-year-old boy. He is fine. All the best to you and your family.

lastexitlondon

On the streets of London most weeks we have peaceful pro Palestine. Pro Israel . All sorts of LGBT demonstrations most all peaceful.
Some kind of people are now making violence and just turning up to cause damage and fight

axeljohan

lastexitlondon said:

The internet again is the cause of violence and division. I say there are people protesting every city  everyday  . Now some meat head lunatics found a way to latch on and attack everything .

Last word from me: and that is why we should correct it if we spread - without intention - false information on the internet. Even if it was reported at the time. 

lastexitlondon

lastexitlondon said:

The vigil was peaceful and un affected. After that and about 2 miles away a mosque was attacked . There is no link to islam atm so god knows what they are thinking. 
It's going to happened again tonight in London there is a 7pm meeting at downing street that will go the same way

lastexitlondon

From a couple days after. I think you want to say something more than you are but you can't quite pin racist or Islam phobia on me can you. Based on what I actually wrote and not what you think 

axeljohan

lastexitlondon said:

From a couple days after. I think you want to say something more than you are but you can't quite pin racist or Islam phobia on me can you. Based on what I actually wrote and not what you think 

I said what I wanted to say. I actually made quite an effort not to make it a personell attack on you, but was asking to correct false information  (which I pointed out) spreaded here. Also noticed that in my opinion these riots have something to do with racism.

You seem not to agree with my take, that happens.

lastexitlondon

The riots do have a racial element I agree. Riots. 
These turned into riots from peaceful protests by concerned citizens living in poverty. The north of England especially and coastal towns are in a terrible state and people have reached a point of no return. 
The fat right have jumped on this and made some racial element and violence. Agreed on those counts

axeljohan

Good to read.

a - in my opinion - good summary about the riots, the role of the far-right and false internet rumours.

UK far-right riots: Everything we know – POLITICO

From this article:

A 17-year-old male was arrested, and he was later revealed to be born in Cardiff to parents from Rwanda. He has no known links to Islam.

As is usual under British law for suspects aged under 18, the police did not initially name him. Within hours, social media was awash with false rumors about his background — including that there was an Islamist connection to the killings and that the attacker was an asylum seeker, both of which the police later said weren’t true.

lastexitlondon

I read all of that and it's nothing that I don't already know as a citizen of this country I can see it with my eyes.And exactly what I said above about far right . But also in your report there it says of Muslims on the street in big gangs chanting alluah Akbar .
This is happening on both sides of the divide  . It's not one sided.  Save our children. I agree with this also. A gang of men in Rotherham raped many young girls . You can look it up. And the local community protested peacefully. Stop the boats. Again how is that racist. The people illegally coming into this country are not one colour or religion. They are from all over the world but the key word is ILLEGAL.  And illegal people are committing crimes and have not identification. There are many people who can no longer deal with hotels full of illegals getting free housing and things tax paying citizens cannot access. It's not racist to oppose that.
The riots are bad and attacking anyone is wrong.  I still don't understand what it is you are saying.

lastexitlondon

axeljohan said:

Good to read.

a - in my opinion - good summary about the riots, the role of the far-right and false internet rumours.

UK far-right riots: Everything we know – POLITICO

From this article:

A 17-year-old male was arrested, and he was later revealed to be born in Cardiff to parents from Rwanda. He has no known links to Islam.

As is usual under British law for suspects aged under 18, the police did not initially name him. Within hours, social media was awash with false rumors about his background — including that there was an Islamist connection to the killings and that the attacker was an asylum seeker, both of which the police later said weren’t true.

Where did I say he was Muslim. I started . " It's been reported (on the nationwide emergency news bulletin) that he is the son of Rwandan asylum seekers.  

lastexitlondon

Asylum seekers does in no way mean a religion of any kind .   

lastexitlondon

And now everyone knows who the murderer is so what's the issue. He isn't even human. Should have been shot at the scene

axeljohan

lastexitlondon said:[...]  I still don't understand what it is you are saying.

axeljohan said:

 

I [...] was asking to correct false information  (which I pointed out) spreaded here. Also noticed that in my opinion these riots have something to do with racism.

We kind of agree on the second point (although I in my opinion you are down-playing or underestimating the influence of the far-right.

The link was a service for anyone who was not familiar with the situation but wanted to look up what two blokes on the internet are arguing about.


BTW: 
IIRC the Rotherman crime was done by a group of Paskitani who were legally in the UK and had nothing to do with asylum seekers, but I could be wrong.

lastexitlondon

Looking at the numbers the UK as legally taken around 180.000 Ukrainian refugees. Since the Russian invasion. No problem. Legally 

lastexitlondon

What I'm saying is . UK is a small place..very small. There is only a determined number of houses. Doctors hospital schools . There just is . 
So when you are placing illegal people above the population you already have then the workers who fund it all will reach a point they will react. Now. This is what has been happening since before the election with Nigel farage gathering all the young hopeless people up and giving them a voice.
This is where all this comes from.
The murders upset so many parents that then they started wanting someone to blame. The social media made some knee jerk assumptions and that caused trouble I agree  
There is a bigger picture than the racist attacks on mosques. That's all I'm saying. I'm no more a racist or anti Muslim or any religion. In fact I hate every religion equally.
In my family . My daughter is homosexual.
My other daughter is engaged to an Iranian man.
My partner is Italian. Grandson mixed race.  Every possible mixture of everything.
I do know that this country has an undercurrent as do most and this is what is happening right now and imperfect storm all came about at that moment 

lastexitlondon

axeljohan said:

lastexitlondon said:[...]  I still don't understand what it is you are saying.

axeljohan said:

 

I [...] was asking to correct false information  (which I pointed out) spreaded here. Also noticed that in my opinion these riots have something to do with racism.

We kind of agree on the second point (although I in my opinion you are down-playing or underestimating the influence of the far-right.

The link was a service for anyone who was not familiar with the situation but wanted to look up what two blokes on the internet are arguing about.


BTW: 
IIRC the Rotherman crime was done by a group of Paskitani who were legally in the UK and had nothing to do with asylum seekers, but I could be wrong.

My reference to this is what I said previously.  Groups of people coming into an area and not respecting the law and rules of a culture and community.  
Imagine that was your daughter or mother.  Is it going to just be " oh well shit happens". 
 No it's not. And this is what fuels far right idiology. Not in my home you don't.
Now I can understand that. 
I would not damage a mosque or be violent but I would be vocal and pissed off a lot.

Go Beavers

lastexitlondon said:

It's nothing to do with the race of the people seeking  asylum.it's the situation. The murderer is 2nd generation Rwandan asylum seeker. 
Yes some have used this as an excuse to act like idiots but there is a bigger movement happening. Many many non racist citizens have had enough . I don't condone rioting at all .
The volume of young disillusioned people is massive in  this country and they are protesting. But this gives nut case people a vessel to riot.
The murders were a catalyst because of false information yes but also these attacks are frequent on soldiers. Old people and children.
There is a history of other cultures not mixing and committing crime . Look into the rapes in Rotherham. 
Local people don't want it anymore 

Nothing to do with race? I don’t know about that. 

mickeyrat

so its illegal to claim asylum in uk?

his parents have been there at least 18 yrs now. what was the disposition of their case? was asylum granted?

what was going on 20 yrs ago in Rwanda that they felt the need to flee to another country?

lastexitlondon

Go Beavers said:

lastexitlondon said:

It's nothing to do with the race of the people seeking  asylum.it's the situation. The murderer is 2nd generation Rwandan asylum seeker. 
Yes some have used this as an excuse to act like idiots but there is a bigger movement happening. Many many non racist citizens have had enough . I don't condone rioting at all .
The volume of young disillusioned people is massive in  this country and they are protesting. But this gives nut case people a vessel to riot.
The murders were a catalyst because of false information yes but also these attacks are frequent on soldiers. Old people and children.
There is a history of other cultures not mixing and committing crime . Look into the rapes in Rotherham. 
Local people don't want it anymore 

Nothing to do with race? I don’t know about that. 

We have asylum from Ukraine and many countries that are not Muslim or of  colour

lastexitlondon

mickeyrat said:

so its illegal to claim asylum in uk?

his parents have been there at least 18 yrs now. what was the disposition of their case? was asylum granted?

what was going on 20 yrs ago in Rwanda that they felt the need to flee to another country?

I think they are legally granted asylum 

axeljohan

well, the Rwanda genocide happened in the 1990s, but don't know whether this has anything to do with the parents coming to the UK.

AFAIK there is no indication that the murderer - who was born in the UK - was illegally in the UK.

lastexitlondon

The murderer is here legally for sure

lastexitlondon

The riots started after the murders but there is a mob now from all the other issues. It's like they pulled the cork out of a bottle

lastexitlondon

lastexitlondon said:

Go Beavers said:

lastexitlondon said:

It's nothing to do with the race of the people seeking  asylum.it's the situation. The murderer is 2nd generation Rwandan asylum seeker. 
Yes some have used this as an excuse to act like idiots but there is a bigger movement happening. Many many non racist citizens have had enough . I don't condone rioting at all .
The volume of young disillusioned people is massive in  this country and they are protesting. But this gives nut case people a vessel to riot.
The murders were a catalyst because of false information yes but also these attacks are frequent on soldiers. Old people and children.
There is a history of other cultures not mixing and committing crime . Look into the rapes in Rotherham. 
Local people don't want it anymore 

Nothing to do with race? I don’t know about that. 

We have asylum from Ukraine and many countries that are not Muslim or of  colour

Lots of Romanian and eastern Europe. Non of them are of colour either

BF89905

lastexitlondon said:

These are not all rasict mobs . It's bigger now it's people who have had enough.
People who pay high tax to not be able to use the service it is meant to cover. 
And young girls are attacked and pestered by non English speaking fighting/working aged men being put in hotels for free whilst our youngsters are working min wage to have nothing.
 It's a bad atmosphere here and it will get worse because as you rightly say there are disgusting people now jumping on this and they now have a place to go be violent and rasict.
 Civil war will happen of a fashion. The numbers are too high on both sides for it to blow over

Conservative governments pride themselves on not raising taxes and/or underfunding public social services; all the while they're funneling tax dollars to their connected people and companies. The pandemic exacerbated the challenges most people were facing and still do. All people should have access to good quality and reliable social and medical services.  Stay safe and kind

axeljohan

some good news in this terrible story:

Thousands of anti-racism protesters take to streets across England to counter far-right rallies | UK news | The Guardian

"Despite the fears of violence and disorder scarring Britain on a scale not seen since the 2011 riots, in the end counter protestors outnumbered those supporting the far right led protests. In some places counter protestors found that no one else on the other side had turned up."