Keeping Men out of Women's Sports

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

These are both really weird comments for this thread....go ahead and make yet another America sucks thread...unlike me getting shit from kat when I posted the article on Newsom because there was already a thread (that was locked but they would re-open...which I am supposed to know despite of course them also locking threads and never re-opening them as well), they will allow any number of trump, or I hate america threads.  So have at it.

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

These are both really weird comments for this thread....go ahead and make yet another America sucks thread...unlike me getting shit from kat when I posted the article on Newsom because there was already a thread (that was locked but they would re-open...which I am supposed to know despite of course them also locking threads and never re-opening them as well), they will allow any number of trump, or I hate america threads.  So have at it.

My comment was a direct response to your “GTFO”. I don’t think the US sucks, and there’s no need to be taking it personally. Your political system sucks. That’s the heart of most of your (and in different ways, MOST country’s) problems. 

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

These are both really weird comments for this thread....go ahead and make yet another America sucks thread...unlike me getting shit from kat when I posted the article on Newsom because there was already a thread (that was locked but they would re-open...which I am supposed to know despite of course them also locking threads and never re-opening them as well), they will allow any number of trump, or I hate america threads.  So have at it. 

That your takeaway from my comment is "America sucks" kind of reinforces my point, but I digress.

The rest of your comment has nothing to do with me. I've never before made a thread about America sucking, nor am I about too, so don't hang that shit on me just because I made an accurate statement about the myopic view too many Americans entertain. 

& maybe DM Kat about your beef with her. Or don't, but regardless, don't put that on me either. 

Merkin Baller

Circling back to thread integrity - no, I don't think boys / men should be competing in all female sports - I'm all for people being allowed to exist, but girls / young women (especially in HS and College) should be able to expect a fair level of competition (and safety) too. 

I also don't think this very hot button subject is at the forefront of so many* of our lives in the interest of safety for girls and women... if conservatives cared about protecting women, they would be doing a lot more for them then simply hating on transgenders, but that's probably another uncomfortable truth about America that people won't want to acknowledge. 

*Spunkie, I understand why it is for someone like you. I'm not questioning where you're coming from here. 

mace1229

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

I think most people recognize most of the inflation was global and due to covid.
The problem they had with Biden and inflation was he denied it at first, then claimed it was high when he took office. And if you deny the problem exists, then naturally you're going to get accused of not doing enough to fix it. 

Merkin Baller

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, countries that are much further left than the US have a much higher rate of citizen overall happiness. This is fact, not opinion. So you are rejecting happiness because you subscribe to this fallacy that you lose freedom in the process. Or that it’s some slippery slope to communism. But yet you all complain about the super rich controlling everything. Maybe if you folks would make political financing laws a priority, you wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s probably too late. All politicians in the US, no matter how righteous you believe they are, are beholden to their donors/highest bidder. D’s and R’s alike. 

Too many Americans think and act as if America is the only country in the world that exists and won't (can't?)  think beyond our borders.... when we compare our incarceration rates or death by firearms to other developed countries for example, you realize just how fucked up we are, but it's not a problem if you ignore those statistics. Global inflation caused by the pandemic is another example... blaming that on Biden was one of the dumbest things going last year, but hey... that's America for you. 

I think most people recognize most of the inflation was global and due to covid.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly, but I'm also not interested in derailing this thread any further. 

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

I don't think that honor belongs strictly to republicans. 

Instead of bothsideism, if we stick to the topic then it is strictly republicans. 

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

Gern Blansten

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

I don't disagree with that but I also don't think many people were aware that was happening.

I certainly wasn't aware.

And again...I have no problem with people existing how they want but I don't think it's fair to have biological men in women's sports and vice versa.

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

I don't disagree with that but I also don't think many people were aware that was happening.

I certainly wasn't aware.

And again...I have no problem with people existing how they want but I don't think it's fair to have biological men in women's sports and vice versa.

I know everyone hates the devils advocate ir a slippery slope argument, but here goes: 

I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, I’m not sure, but what is then done about bio females that are double the size of the other players? Even bigger and stronger than the boys? Do you ban them as well? 

As gobeavers pointed out, we’ve all simply been baited into discussing these largely non-issue problems by culture war republicans. It should be case by case, at the micro level. Not legislated. 

I do, however, feel terrible for any child that gets injured. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

I don't disagree with that but I also don't think many people were aware that was happening.

I certainly wasn't aware.

And again...I have no problem with people existing how they want but I don't think it's fair to have biological men in women's sports and vice versa.

I know everyone hates the devils advocate ir a slippery slope argument, but here goes: 

I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, I’m not sure, but what is then done about bio females that are double the size of the other players? Even bigger and stronger than the boys? Do you ban them as well? 

As gobeavers pointed out, we’ve all simply been baited into discussing these largely non-issue problems by culture war republicans. It should be case by case, at the micro level. Not legislated. 

I do, however, feel terrible for any child that gets injured. 

Agreed. 

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

People were enslaved for centuries. Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. The past is not an argument for what is right in the present. 
True, they aren't. But without them making laws, there's biological males in female sports. And common sense states that creates an unfair advantage, and in some cases, safety risks. You wouldn't put a 16 year old up against 10 year olds in little league baseball for the exact same reason.
You wouldn't think it has to be said, but it does. And maybe its happened before, but people are more aware of it now and it seems that more biological females are are losing and leading to more publicity. 
I just googled "how many males won in female sports"  I havant had time to read every incident mentioned, but the few names I've googled seem to be a real story. 

578+ Male* Victories in Female Sports: A Nine-Month Tally

https://womenssportspolicy.org/253-male-victories-in-female-sports/

Gern Blansten

Great idea for Newsom to have Kirk on his podcast. Definitely the way to go with the younger conservatives.

DE4173

Yes! On my to-do list to listen.

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

Why is the government in a better position to manage it than the agency/association that controls the sport? We also know the legislation written by republicans is poorly done. 

Because society has always needed guidelines to follow. Why did the government have to make it illegal to smoke on a an airplane before people stopped?
Those is charge of youth sports aren't usually specialists in child development or doctors making these decisions. 

Transgendered women have been playing against other women for decades, so it only became this massive thing when republicans decided to make it a culture war issue and found another group to demonize and scapegoat. Also, republican politicians aren’t doctors or child development specialists. They can’t even decide how to define a biological female. 

People were enslaved for centuries. Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. The past is not an argument for what is right in the present. 
True, they aren't. But without them making laws, there's biological males in female sports. And common sense states that creates an unfair advantage, and in some cases, safety risks. You wouldn't put a 16 year old up against 10 year olds in little league baseball for the exact same reason.
You wouldn't think it has to be said, but it does. And maybe its happened before, but people are more aware of it now and it seems that more biological females are are losing and leading to more publicity. 
I just googled "how many males won in female sports"  I havant had time to read every incident mentioned, but the few names I've googled seem to be a real story. 

578+ Male* Victories in Female Sports: A Nine-Month Tally

https://womenssportspolicy.org/253-male-victories-in-female-sports/

Poor comparison, but my historical reference had to do with republicans making this an issue back around 2015 and not a right vs wrong thing. My personal observation is that I’m seeing more references to calling transgendered women, men. This is unfortunate because the goal of republicans is to legislate them out of existence, despite the fact that they’ve always existed. 

mickeyrat

no real answers given here but does raise valid points.

https://youtu.be/flSS1tjoxf0?si=3wCROxLDTR6YgeAh

Spunkie

Parksy said:

Spunkie said:

✓ well done parksy. When our team board members get back to me you think I should just roll with whatever they're feeling or press the matter?

totally up to your comfort level... I would press the matter.  

I think a lot of organizations are making decisions without logic and rationale. Your situation is interestingly unique as it relates to health and safety.   Ask them these questions:

1. Why do weight classes exist in combat sports?
2. Why do men not fight women in combat sports? 
3. Is there any case law in the land that suggests a penalty for an assault would be greater if an assault were committed against a heavy male versus a light female?  Or even just simply male vs female. (the answer is yes.) 

When they admit the obvious answer... they may come to the natural conclusion that yes there is a chance they are putting people at risk. And then, they must accept that risk, or start getting players to sign waivers which would cause one heck of a shit storm. 

I think a handful of folks here have suggested this.... generally speaking... one person's freedom cannot infringe on another persons especially as it relates to safety.    (that logic has yet to apply in America with their gun laws) 

I decided to press the matter before the statue of limitation is up.

We have a year in BC to allege discrimination (her "sex" being the protected characteristic) and bring forward human right complaints.

Pipsqeak's doctor told her to give the sport up immediately after this head injury, which she did. Maybe she'll be awarded financial compensation for her injury, time, energy, and money that it took to train for and compete for years? Maybe BC Soccer will be ordered to change the rules? Maybe her complaint won't even move forward within the BC Human Rights Act tribunal jurisdiction? I'll follow up in 5 years or so, once bureaucracy rolls its wheels.

Spunkie

"The U.K's highest court issued a ruling two weeks ago that defined a woman for anti-discrimination purposes as someone born biologically female. The head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission said after the ruling that transgender women would be excluded from women's toilets, hospital wards and sports teams."

I hope that applies to the girls teams, too, which I think is even more contentious since they are children!