Keeping Men out of Women's Sports

HughFreakingDillon

Tim Simmons said:

battle1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

battle1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

battle1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yep, being forced to show your junk to a gym teacher never caused any problems. ever. 

Where I’m from it was a school doctor. Not a gym teacher. I cant speak for canada. Also, students had the option to go to their primary care physician to have the physical if they were uncomfortable doing it at school. I fail to see what the harm in this is. There is zero harm in a doctor making sure boys aren’t playing with girls. 

so you showed your junk to a school doctor? how about the painfully obvious? bring your birth certificate when registering for a sport. or do americans still not believe birth certificates?

Sorry youre mad at me, Hugh for playing sports and having a physical performed in order to do so. Don’t worry about Americans, focus on yourself. 

this is embarrassing. 

Cheer up, Hugh. 🥃 

dude. 

😂 quite something isn’t it? I know it’s overused, but if it’s apt, it’s apt:

when people show you who they are, believe them. 

battle1

Ok, then don’t cheer up. Stay grumpy. 

Gern Blansten

battle1 said:

OnWis97 said:

battle1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yep, being forced to show your junk to a gym teacher never caused any problems. ever. 

Where I’m from it was a school doctor. Not a gym teacher. I cant speak for canada. Also, students had the option to go to their primary care physician to have the physical if they were uncomfortable doing it at school. I fail to see what the harm in this is. There is zero harm in a doctor making sure boys aren’t playing with girls. 

You had a school doctor confirm your sex?

You had a school doctor examine you to clear you to play sports. That entailed dropping your pants and having your balls checked. So indirectly, if you want to frame it that way, yes. 

That wasn't to confirm your sex though. That was just a physical which included a hernia exam

battle1

Gern Blansten said:

battle1 said:

OnWis97 said:

battle1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yep, being forced to show your junk to a gym teacher never caused any problems. ever. 

Where I’m from it was a school doctor. Not a gym teacher. I cant speak for canada. Also, students had the option to go to their primary care physician to have the physical if they were uncomfortable doing it at school. I fail to see what the harm in this is. There is zero harm in a doctor making sure boys aren’t playing with girls. 

You had a school doctor confirm your sex?

You had a school doctor examine you to clear you to play sports. That entailed dropping your pants and having your balls checked. So indirectly, if you want to frame it that way, yes. 

That wasn't to confirm your sex though. That was just a physical which included a hernia exam

That has already been discussed yesterday. You didn’t read the discussion, Gern. 

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

Depends on the sport..swimming obviously is not a contact sport. You can argue that volleyball isn't either...but it's still not fair.

If you identify as X then play sports with X. If Y then Y, Z then Z, etc.

Identify doesn’t mean shit for athletic competition. 

sure it does...there's even an executive order over it

DE4173

🤷‍♂️

https://youtu.be/pF7vAmOvtVQ?si=7SmA0rieg44UTOBp

smile6680

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

Go Beavers

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

tempo_n_groove

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

She won 2 years in a row.  That is impressive going up against boys her age and weight.

DE4173

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

I haven't opened this thread in a while, so I know I'm late to the discussion. 
But there is a huge difference between a female choosing to play in a male sport/team, and a biological male choosing to play in a female sport. No one cares if you decide to "play up." There are 8th graders who have played at a high school team because they are very competitive and their skill fits. I've never heard of a high schooler playing down with middle school though. 
And I keep hearing the debate of "who's going to check?" I really don't know why people are still asking that. As already mentioned, many schools require a physical before playing. Any doctor who can't check a box that says male or female from a routine physical is not a real doctor and should be arrested immediately. It's really a non-issue. 

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

I haven't opened this thread in a while, so I know I'm late to the discussion. 
But there is a huge difference between a female choosing to play in a male sport/team, and a biological male choosing to play in a female sport. No one cares if you decide to "play up." There are 8th graders who have played at a high school team because they are very competitive and their skill fits. I've never heard of a high schooler playing down with middle school though. 
And I keep hearing the debate of "who's going to check?" I really don't know why people are still asking that. As already mentioned, many schools require a physical before playing. Any doctor who can't check a box that says male or female from a routine physical is not a real doctor and should be arrested immediately. It's really a non-issue. 

It’s the opposite of non-issue when you start getting into nuanced situations as well as how the government wants to define male and female. If it just comes down to penis/no penis, how about republicans put that into the legislation? 

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

I haven't opened this thread in a while, so I know I'm late to the discussion. 
But there is a huge difference between a female choosing to play in a male sport/team, and a biological male choosing to play in a female sport. No one cares if you decide to "play up." There are 8th graders who have played at a high school team because they are very competitive and their skill fits. I've never heard of a high schooler playing down with middle school though. 
And I keep hearing the debate of "who's going to check?" I really don't know why people are still asking that. As already mentioned, many schools require a physical before playing. Any doctor who can't check a box that says male or female from a routine physical is not a real doctor and should be arrested immediately. It's really a non-issue. 

It’s the opposite of non-issue when you start getting into nuanced situations as well as how the government wants to define male and female. If it just comes down to penis/no penis, how about republicans put that into the legislation? 

But is there any confusion as to what a biological male and female are? The definition is not the issue, everyone understands what a biological male is, and everyone knows the issue is with biological males in female sports. 
No matter if you define it as chromosomes or phenotype, it's going to be the same result. 
And for the rare disorders that affect chromosomes or something, they can stipulate they align with whatever sex most closely resembles their testosterone levels or whatever is deemed appropriate by people with more knowledge in the area than me. My point is, it shouldn't be that difficult to enforce a no (biological) males in females sports ruling. There's no need for coaches or admin to check themselves or any other nonsense, kids go to the doctor and get physicals, many schools require it to play. It's not a big deal. 

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

I haven't opened this thread in a while, so I know I'm late to the discussion. 
But there is a huge difference between a female choosing to play in a male sport/team, and a biological male choosing to play in a female sport. No one cares if you decide to "play up." There are 8th graders who have played at a high school team because they are very competitive and their skill fits. I've never heard of a high schooler playing down with middle school though. 
And I keep hearing the debate of "who's going to check?" I really don't know why people are still asking that. As already mentioned, many schools require a physical before playing. Any doctor who can't check a box that says male or female from a routine physical is not a real doctor and should be arrested immediately. It's really a non-issue. 

It’s the opposite of non-issue when you start getting into nuanced situations as well as how the government wants to define male and female. If it just comes down to penis/no penis, how about republicans put that into the legislation? 

But is there any confusion as to what a biological male and female are? The definition is not the issue, everyone understands what a biological male is, and everyone knows the issue is with biological males in female sports. 
No matter if you define it as chromosomes or phenotype, it's going to be the same result. 
And for the rare disorders that affect chromosomes or something, they can stipulate they align with whatever sex most closely resembles their testosterone levels or whatever is deemed appropriate by people with more knowledge in the area than me. My point is, it shouldn't be that difficult to enforce a no (biological) males in females sports ruling. There's no need for coaches or admin to check themselves or any other nonsense, kids go to the doctor and get physicals, many schools require it to play. It's not a big deal. 

Yes, there can be confusion based on how people try to define it. You can have intersexed people, as well as chromosomes that don’t align with genitals. You’re even pointing out chromosomes vs hormones. The people with more knowledge and who should be making the decisions are the sports governing bodies and not politicians enamored with culture war crap who’s goal is target marginalized groups and not to “protect women and girls”. 

cincybearcat

So - my daughter is a dancer, has been part of competitive dance teams for 13 years now....And while it isn't related to the topic fully, it is similar and irritates the hell out of me.  For solos, there were probably 30 girls completing and 4 boys.  They do not separate them by sex/gender/whatever)....though they do separate by age for overall awards.  Every damn competition, boys score the highest.  Last weekend top 3 all boys and so was #6.  Its just dumb, they are so different physically and do different things.  

Additionally over the years as I had noticed boys scoring higher and also group routines that included boys scoring higher I did some digging and sure enough it wasn't just my perception, it seems to be a lot of peoples, and sometimes judges admit it.

Get this, boys don't have enough of an advantage over girls that judges would artificially give them higher scores because there are fewer boys in dance and they want them to continue so boost their egos.  WTF.  

Anyhow - this issue is so clear to me I honestly do not understand the other perspective.  

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

So - my daughter is a dancer, has been part of competitive dance teams for 13 years now....And while it isn't related to the topic fully, it is similar and irritates the hell out of me.  For solos, there were probably 30 girls completing and 4 boys.  They do not separate them by sex/gender/whatever)....though they do separate by age for overall awards.  Every damn competition, boys score the highest.  Last weekend top 3 all boys and so was #6.  Its just dumb, they are so different physically and do different things.  

Additionally over the years as I had noticed boys scoring higher and also group routines that included boys scoring higher I did some digging and sure enough it wasn't just my perception, it seems to be a lot of peoples, and sometimes judges admit it.

Get this, boys don't have enough of an advantage over girls that judges would artificially give them higher scores because there are fewer boys in dance and they want them to continue so boost their egos.  WTF.  

Anyhow - this issue is so clear to me I honestly do not understand the other perspective.  

Yeah I'm on your side there. Should be completely separate. Let the 4 compete amongst themselves.

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

Go Beavers said:

smile6680 said:

I think a lot of people are overthinking the issue. 

1. Is it a good idea for safety reasons. My opinion is it's a real concern

2. In non contact sports is it fair to biological females and or trans people. This can be debated. 

There’s a lot of high school girls in wrestling who compete against boys. So maybe more thinking on the issue is a good thing. 

Wrestling is an interesting contact support. It's controlled contact and by weight. 

We had a female champion last year for one of our state weight class. It was good to see. 

I think the discussion is whether (biological) boys should be competing in female sports. I don't think most people have an issue with girls/parents choosing to sign up to compete against boys if they have the ability. 

That’s the discussion, which also includes adults. Point being it can be a pretty complicated situation due to the fact that both gender and sex isn’t always a black and white situation. You now have trans men, in theory based on the EO, who have the strength of a male athlete being told they have to compete against women. 

I haven't opened this thread in a while, so I know I'm late to the discussion. 
But there is a huge difference between a female choosing to play in a male sport/team, and a biological male choosing to play in a female sport. No one cares if you decide to "play up." There are 8th graders who have played at a high school team because they are very competitive and their skill fits. I've never heard of a high schooler playing down with middle school though. 
And I keep hearing the debate of "who's going to check?" I really don't know why people are still asking that. As already mentioned, many schools require a physical before playing. Any doctor who can't check a box that says male or female from a routine physical is not a real doctor and should be arrested immediately. It's really a non-issue. 

It’s the opposite of non-issue when you start getting into nuanced situations as well as how the government wants to define male and female. If it just comes down to penis/no penis, how about republicans put that into the legislation? 

But is there any confusion as to what a biological male and female are? The definition is not the issue, everyone understands what a biological male is, and everyone knows the issue is with biological males in female sports. 
No matter if you define it as chromosomes or phenotype, it's going to be the same result. 
And for the rare disorders that affect chromosomes or something, they can stipulate they align with whatever sex most closely resembles their testosterone levels or whatever is deemed appropriate by people with more knowledge in the area than me. My point is, it shouldn't be that difficult to enforce a no (biological) males in females sports ruling. There's no need for coaches or admin to check themselves or any other nonsense, kids go to the doctor and get physicals, many schools require it to play. It's not a big deal. 

Yes, there can be confusion based on how people try to define it. You can have intersexed people, as well as chromosomes that don’t align with genitals. You’re even pointing out chromosomes vs hormones. The people with more knowledge and who should be making the decisions are the sports governing bodies and not politicians enamored with culture war crap who’s goal is target marginalized groups and not to “protect women and girls”. 

I said define it by phenotype or genotype, and only If there is a known disorder, like Swyer Syndrome  (which I only became aware of due to the summer olympics and the boxer) or intersexed people then there can be a set of guidelines to be fair to those individuals and to everyone else. 
And again, my original response was agreeing with those who say identifying it will not be up to coaches or the athletic dept, it's nonsense to think it would be. Athletes get physicals all the time by doctors outside of the school in order to play sports. Or as someone else pointed out, a birth certificate. Demonstrating your sex isn't going to. a big deal, there are many ways to do it without pulling your pants down in front of the PE teacher, which some seem to think is the only way based on their reaction. 

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

So - my daughter is a dancer, has been part of competitive dance teams for 13 years now....And while it isn't related to the topic fully, it is similar and irritates the hell out of me.  For solos, there were probably 30 girls completing and 4 boys.  They do not separate them by sex/gender/whatever)....though they do separate by age for overall awards.  Every damn competition, boys score the highest.  Last weekend top 3 all boys and so was #6.  Its just dumb, they are so different physically and do different things.  

Additionally over the years as I had noticed boys scoring higher and also group routines that included boys scoring higher I did some digging and sure enough it wasn't just my perception, it seems to be a lot of peoples, and sometimes judges admit it.

Get this, boys don't have enough of an advantage over girls that judges would artificially give them higher scores because there are fewer boys in dance and they want them to continue so boost their egos.  WTF.  

Anyhow - this issue is so clear to me I honestly do not understand the other perspective.  

My daughter dances, and in many of her group routines, they have the token boy who is able to do all these flips and tricks and shit that they use in order to get higher scores. The girls can do the same stuff, but because he’s male, the judges (and the lemmings in the audience) go nuts only because he has nuts. Seems so odd to me, I feel like I’m the only one that sees it for the cheap pop that it is, but seasoned judges even lap it up. 

However, in the judges’ case, I honestly think it’s more about more diverse recruitment so they can double the sports’ exposure and enrollment. 

shadowcast

Post deleted. See the Posting Guidelines

shadowcast

It's fake to suggest that it is a big issue that affects very many people. A delicate issue for sure...but so rare it shouldn't be featured in political ads.

It all starts somewhere. Next thing you know Men dressed up as woman will want to go into girls bathrooms.