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Is ending the divide/coming together for common good, having civil discourse even possible today?

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
in A Moving Train
I wonder.  My wife directed me to an Instagram site called startswithus whose mission is stated thus:

87% of Americans are tired of how divided we are politically.

This is according to a new YouGov online survey of U.S. adults commissioned by Starts With Us.

We are the # 87percent

A better way forward Starts With Us!

I looked it up and the very first responses I saw were as follows:

 -How can u agree with a socialist ideology that wants to destroy the American way of life?
-This ig is meant to divide voters so that Trump wins.
-We need a real Jan 6th. !!! The Elections have been Rigged 4 Decades .
-I’m not supporting book banning, hateful fascists. PASS

I'm not defending this organization- I only know as much about it as what I've posted here- but the idea there seems sound... but the reality?   The responses do not give me optimism.

So I am asking the question:  Is ending the huge divide in the U.S. and working to come together for the common good- even to a moderate degree- and having civil discourse with people we don't agree with even possible today?   Look at AMT- whether we justify our fervent arguments or not, civil discourse seems seldom to happens here, right?

I am hugely hesitant to answer the question I posed myself.  I am sick to death off all the negativity- even (maybe especially) my own.  If we can't get it together, where will it all end?

Along with all this, the other question I often ask is, what is the point of all this arguing when a major consequence of it is that it distracts of from the more immediate and important issues of global environmental collapse?  Yes, I know the world will heal itself-   no need to quote George Carlin- but is that really how we want to go?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    short answer, no.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    dudemandudeman Posts: 2,970
    Yes.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,997
    I don't think its possible today. In a cycle or 2 of politicians, yes.
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    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,539
    Is it possible? Sure
    Is it likely anytime soon? Nope

    Between the media and the politicians winding up their base with conspiracy theories, lies, and dogwhistles and the base lapping it up there is little hope for a quick resolution to the divide.

    Very sad
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    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,114
    Good question 

    If 45% of the country is currently picking trump over Biden,  you think there's any chance of American harmony?
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    dudeman said:
    Yes.

    Optimists... there always has to be one in every crowd, lol.
    But seriously, dudeman , I envy your optimism. I really would like to think all "sides of the isle" could work better together, but I have a hard time picturing that. 

    I'm not naive enough to even think there will ever be true harmony among people- here in the U.S. or elsewhere- but I do know that in this country we used to work together much more closely.  A few years ago, I saw a series of graphs that had lines  running back and forth between the two major U.S. parities that represent occasions where the parties worked together on issues.  The further back in time the graphs went, the more lines running between the two parties.  The difference was marked.  Today, those lines are few.  If this continues, there will be nothing but chaos.

    We all know this of course, and I think we all know this cannot end in anything but disaster.

    So Dude, as our worthy optimist, how do you see a coming closer to working together happen?  Sorry if that's a question that's a tall order, but I think it's a question this country needs to ask itself if we want to avoid, brutal chaos. 

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    dudemandudeman Posts: 2,970
    edited May 2023
    brianlux said:
    dudeman said:
    Yes.

    Optimists... there always has to be one in every crowd, lol.
    But seriously, dudeman , I envy your optimism. I really would like to think all "sides of the isle" could work better together, but I have a hard time picturing that. 

    I'm not naive enough to even think there will ever be true harmony among people- here in the U.S. or elsewhere- but I do know that in this country we used to work together much more closely.  A few years ago, I saw a series of graphs that had lines  running back and forth between the two major U.S. parities that represent occasions where the parties worked together on issues.  The further back in time the graphs went, the more lines running between the two parties.  The difference was marked.  Today, those lines are few.  If this continues, there will be nothing but chaos.

    We all know this of course, and I think we all know this cannot end in anything but disaster.

    So Dude, as our worthy optimist, how do you see a coming closer to working together happen?  Sorry if that's a question that's a tall order, but I think it's a question this country needs to ask itself if we want to avoid, brutal chaos. 

    It will get worse before it gets better, for sure. I also don't think that our country will resemble what it is right now. For many people, that is probably a good thing. 

    Eventually, I think Americans will value each other as humans but I also think that there is going to be a lot more nastiness first. 

    So ultimately, "yes". 

    In the meantime the phrase "Don't be dicks to each other" is the best we can do. 
    Post edited by dudeman on
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,383
    I sure as hell hope so. 

    Everything is divided and everyone seems to be on edge. I will continue to try to treat others with respect - even if I disagree with them. It's definitely not easy to bite your tongue sometimes.
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    dudeman said:
    brianlux said:
    dudeman said:
    Yes.

    Optimists... there always has to be one in every crowd, lol.
    But seriously, dudeman , I envy your optimism. I really would like to think all "sides of the isle" could work better together, but I have a hard time picturing that. 

    I'm not naive enough to even think there will ever be true harmony among people- here in the U.S. or elsewhere- but I do know that in this country we used to work together much more closely.  A few years ago, I saw a series of graphs that had lines  running back and forth between the two major U.S. parities that represent occasions where the parties worked together on issues.  The further back in time the graphs went, the more lines running between the two parties.  The difference was marked.  Today, those lines are few.  If this continues, there will be nothing but chaos.

    We all know this of course, and I think we all know this cannot end in anything but disaster.

    So Dude, as our worthy optimist, how do you see a coming closer to working together happen?  Sorry if that's a question that's a tall order, but I think it's a question this country needs to ask itself if we want to avoid, brutal chaos. 

    It will get worse before it gets better, for sure. I also don't think that our country will resemble what it is right now. For many people, that is probably a good thing. 

    Eventually, I think Americans will value each other as humans but I also think that there is going to be a lot more nastiness first. 

    So ultimately, "yes". 

    In the meantime the phrase "Don't be dick to each other." Is the best we can do. 
    Good idea!
    mfc2006 said:
    I sure as hell hope so. 

    Everything is divided and everyone seems to be on edge. I will continue to try to treat others with respect - even if I disagree with them. It's definitely not easy to bite your tongue sometimes.

    Another good idea!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    I think the combo of too many hours of "news" availability, human nature to consume "news" that affirms one's beliefs, and the ratings that "news" organizations can generate from outrages means that it's never going to happen.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,524
    I don't think so. Society has jumped the shark IMO.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    So far (if I'm reading these correctly) we have 4 no (or strongly leaning "no"), 2 maybes, 1 yes. 
    [Note to self: stop creating dismal threads :lol: ]
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    No. as it relates directly to your question.. We need a real crisis at this point that will cause a lot of people at once to rethink the order of things.  So in the future after a real catastrophe, probably.
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,286
    Put me down for No! If after 1/6 we didn’t come together as a nation to completely put away the one’s choosing to go and create havoc on behalf of the asshole, only something more severe might do it! Fighting in the streets comes to mind 
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    static111 said:
    No. as it relates directly to your question.. We need a real crisis at this point that will cause a lot of people at once to rethink the order of things.  So in the future after a real catastrophe, probably.
    A dreaded, nightmarish thought, but that may well be what it takes.  Of course, in a way we are already in the midst of a multi-layered and unfolding catastrophe what with global warming, plastic garbage in the oceans, depleting resources, diminishing wildlife, and pollution. I think if it were possible to project on a screen what that will all lead to in another 50 years, maybe more people would be motivated to work together. 
    josevolution said:
    Put me down for No! If after 1/6 we didn’t come together as a nation to completely put away the one’s choosing to go and create havoc on behalf of the asshole, only something more severe might do it! Fighting in the streets comes to mind 

    I'm surprised there hasn't been more violence in the streets.  I pretty much avoid areas in big cities where that kind of thing is most apt to happen.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    static111 said:
    No. as it relates directly to your question.. We need a real crisis at this point that will cause a lot of people at once to rethink the order of things.  So in the future after a real catastrophe, probably.
    i agree but then i think we just had a catastrophe in covid and look how that was handled and how that was basically the thing that divided everyone.

    so that makes me think that we can have 3 9/11s in a week one of these years and we will still not come together.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    josevolution said:
    Put me down for No! If after 1/6 we didn’t come together as a nation to completely put away the one’s choosing to go and create havoc on behalf of the asshole, only something more severe might do it! Fighting in the streets comes to mind 
    this is what i am saying. we did not punish confederate leaders after the civil war. we have not punished any leaders of 1/6. this will continue for generations unfortunately.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 11,892
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    I'm glad you posted here because it points out that major division among people is not just a U.S. thing.  It's probably more widespread than is obvious because in some countries drawing outside the lines is forbidden.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,087
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    I think broad statements like this are why we can;t come together.  If you 100% agree with the current LBGT+ narrative or 100% agree with the GOP backlash then I just think you arent a critical thinker. 

    Not you...the general you.

    Same for abortion. Which is what I think you mean when you say women's rights.  
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    I think broad statements like this are why we can;t come together.  If you 100% agree with the current LBGT+ narrative or 100% agree with the GOP backlash then I just think you arent a critical thinker. 

    Not you...the general you.

    Same for abortion. Which is what I think you mean when you say women's rights.  
    maybe i am the problem. all i know is i am sick to death of having to defend rights for other people. but that is a function of having 30% of the country actively trying to take them away for most of my life.  it's exhausting, and it is only getting worse. this is why i gave up on the israel palestine issue. at this point i would prefer to do my own thing and not be a part of a "community". most of those maga people are people i would never want to interact with anyway. if someone voted for trump twice and plans to do so again, i can't trust them to make the appropriate decision when doing services people need like working on homes, cars, public safety, etc.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,954
    The GOP is the problem. There is no doubt about that. The dems aren't perfect for sure but there is no way around blaming the GOP/Magat mentality for the divide right now.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,985
    We all read little text messages now and things can get misunderstood real quick.  Political rants from people too can get overblown.
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,954
    Tuberville rant...live TV
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    I get what you are saying but the GOP isn't being misunderstood or overblown. They are straight up gaslighting their constituents.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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    IndifferenceIndifference Posts: 2,637
    Its not possible at all IMO - this forum is a good example of an echo chamber where dissenting opinions go to die.  Its sad.  You can tell me I'm wrong but then your proving my point. :D

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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,822
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    I think broad statements like this are why we can;t come together.  If you 100% agree with the current LBGT+ narrative or 100% agree with the GOP backlash then I just think you arent a critical thinker. 

    Not you...the general you.

    Same for abortion. Which is what I think you mean when you say women's rights.  
    Broad statements out of of random people in discussions with other random people may not help. But it's nothing compared to the amount of outraged being generated by the media that so many people consume.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
    OnWis97 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    I think broad statements like this are why we can;t come together.  If you 100% agree with the current LBGT+ narrative or 100% agree with the GOP backlash then I just think you arent a critical thinker. 

    Not you...the general you.

    Same for abortion. Which is what I think you mean when you say women's rights.  
    Broad statements out of of random people in discussions with other random people may not help. But it's nothing compared to the amount of outraged being generated by the media that so many people consume.

    Media definitely does not help.  I am more inclined these days to get news from less "glamorous" sources like AP or Reuters.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,954
    Indifference said:
    Its not possible at all IMO - this forum is a good example of an echo chamber where dissenting opinions go to die.  Its sad.  You can tell me I'm wrong but then your proving my point. :D

    Dissenting opinions only die if you let them die.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,087
    OnWis97 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Social media and hunting in packs ruin rational thinking. I'm not American but world wide communication is at a low. In a world with many ways to communicate. If we tried to treat people like we would like to be treated it would help everyone 
    there is a whole political party here that wants to take rights away from women and lgbtq community. i will never, ever treat those people the way i would want to be treated, because they are actually harming people. fuck them.
    I think broad statements like this are why we can;t come together.  If you 100% agree with the current LBGT+ narrative or 100% agree with the GOP backlash then I just think you arent a critical thinker. 

    Not you...the general you.

    Same for abortion. Which is what I think you mean when you say women's rights.  
    Broad statements out of of random people in discussions with other random people may not help. But it's nothing compared to the amount of outraged being generated by the media that so many people consume.
    You seem to be minimizing exactly what Facebook and Twitter is..... for sure the Fox News's and MSNBC's play their part as well.
    hippiemom = goodness
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