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*** the DONALD J TRUMP IS OFFICIALLY A CONVICTED FELON thread ***

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,262

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301
    in nyc no less. home to a sizeable pr population.



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,725
    2024
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mickeyrat said:


    Nothing in what Joe is saying is having anything to do with a mental decline. And nothing in the interview points to Trump having any severe old age mental decline. 

    He comes off as the Donald Trump people already know and as witty and charming as always. A goofball of a fuck you to progress for the empthatically challenged. 

    The ”lefts” try to Biden Trump is obviously not working. And I’m pretty sure most people watching/listening to the podcast interviews he has done don’t see the David Pakman numbing clickbait titles of ”DISASTER INTERVIEW BY TRUMP”.  No matter how much ”the left” is trying to make fetch happen. 

    They see a funny and naturally charming dude who doesnt start every answer with a stilted ”The American people is…”
    um, have you heard any of his nonsensical ramblings at his rallies? none of it makes any sense. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,745
    2023
    MSG is gonna be sullied this afternoon. Hey, but nothing like a hate rally. Long Island will be a ghost town.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,262
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mickeyrat said:


    Nothing in what Joe is saying is having anything to do with a mental decline. And nothing in the interview points to Trump having any severe old age mental decline. 

    He comes off as the Donald Trump people already know and as witty and charming as always. A goofball of a fuck you to progress for the empthatically challenged. 

    The ”lefts” try to Biden Trump is obviously not working. And I’m pretty sure most people watching/listening to the podcast interviews he has done don’t see the David Pakman numbing clickbait titles of ”DISASTER INTERVIEW BY TRUMP”.  No matter how much ”the left” is trying to make fetch happen. 

    They see a funny and naturally charming dude who doesnt start every answer with a stilted ”The American people is…”
    um, have you heard any of his nonsensical ramblings at his rallies? none of it makes any sense. 
    Yes. And Ive seen him sway from side to side to November Rain.

    But Joe saying that Trump goes on tangents and talk about whatever he wants instead of answering his question about day 1 in the white house is not that. 

    And he never swayed from side to side for 40 minutes in the interview (from the portions I saw). 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,262

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,312
    Nothing says good political instincts like turning a roast comic loose and following that up with Stephen Miller 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,725
    2024
    pjl44 said:
    Nothing says good political instincts like turning a roast comic loose and following that up with Stephen Miller 
    it's really something, isn't it? prior to the age of trump, any ONE of the thousand things this party has done in the last 8 years would have absolutely SUNK them in campaigns past. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,312
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    pjl44 said:
    Nothing says good political instincts like turning a roast comic loose and following that up with Stephen Miller 
    it's really something, isn't it? prior to the age of trump, any ONE of the thousand things this party has done in the last 8 years would have absolutely SUNK them in campaigns past. 
    At this point I'm convinced it's a Brewster's Millions situation where there is some insane reward for whichever campaign loses
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,312
    But seriously I want to meet the voter who's like "I can't get with all of this insane bullshit but then they bring out Stephen Miller and goddammit I'm back in"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,725
    2024
    next rally they probably bring out david duke. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,745
    2023
    Cancelled my WaPo subscription and the opinion I responded to was Dana Milbank’s lame excuse of why he’s staying. The latest excuse is that WaPo lost $76 million last year so doing so doesn’t hurt Bozos. Well, Blue Origin, Amazon, AWS and Whole Foods are the profitable sides of the ledger. Well Dana, I don’t use Amazon, I’ll no longer step foot in Whole Foods and I’ll review my retirement accounts to see about jettisoning Amazon stock. Sucking off the teat of gubmint is more important than a democratic society. Enjoy your view from the Ivory Tower of the Fourth Estate, Jeff.


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,745
    2023
    I’m open to suggestions on a replacement news source but I’m more and more considering becoming more ignorant rather than informed.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,170
    2023
    ^^^^
    Happy Valentines Day!

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,312
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    next rally they probably bring out david duke. 
    He already endorsed Stein lol
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,745
    2023
    F Me In The Brain said:
    ^^^^
    Happy Valentines Day!

    I’ll send a dozen dead roses and a box of moldy chocolates to their headquarters. Fuck Bozos.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,744
    2023
    Even Nazis are saying this rally went too far... 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 41,821
    2023
    Gern Blansten said:
    Even Nazis are saying this rally went too far... 

    Reading Heather Cox Richards letter tonight in which she describes Trump's Nazi rally, something strange happened:  I was actually surprised at how far Trump would go with his bullshit.  I really didn't think he could do anything more that he has to see how far he can go with his chase to out-Hitler Hitler.
    Way to fucking go, 45.  You're getting close to the mark of All Time World Champion Dickhead.  What a legacy, bud.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,285

  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,706
    pjl44 said:
    But seriously I want to meet the voter who's like "I can't get with all of this insane bullshit but then they bring out Stephen Miller and goddammit I'm back in"

  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,789
    2023
    Remember when after having his ear blown completely off, Trump promised to change his tune and be more focused on "unifying the nation"?

    Trump rewrites RNC speech after assassination attempt: ‘I’m supposed to be dead’ - POLITICO

    After the shooting, he scrapped his original convention speech that was going to take aim at President Joe Biden and his administration’s policies in favor of an address focused on trying to unite the nation. Trump sees his new speech as “a chance to bring the whole country, even the whole world, together,” he told the Examiner.




    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,262
    edited October 28
    Poncier said:
    Remember when after having his ear blown completely off, Trump promised to change his tune and be more focused on "unifying the nation"?

    Trump rewrites RNC speech after assassination attempt: ‘I’m supposed to be dead’ - POLITICO

    After the shooting, he scrapped his original convention speech that was going to take aim at President Joe Biden and his administration’s policies in favor of an address focused on trying to unite the nation. Trump sees his new speech as “a chance to bring the whole country, even the whole world, together,” he told the Examiner.




    I imagine he sees it as unifying his nation. The third reich. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,745
    2023
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Poncier said:
    Remember when after having his ear blown completely off, Trump promised to change his tune and be more focused on "unifying the nation"?

    Trump rewrites RNC speech after assassination attempt: ‘I’m supposed to be dead’ - POLITICO

    After the shooting, he scrapped his original convention speech that was going to take aim at President Joe Biden and his administration’s policies in favor of an address focused on trying to unite the nation. Trump sees his new speech as “a chance to bring the whole country, even the whole world, together,” he told the Examiner.




    I imagine he sees it as unifying his nation. The third reich. 
    Ummm, that’d be the Fourth Reich.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,262
    What do you think is the reason for Trumps talk about how all the polls saying he will win?

    Is it him trying to will a win into existence? Laying the groundwork for ”there was corruption - remember the polls saying I would win”? Or him actually belieiving polls say he leads in every swing state?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301
    seems on brand....



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,312
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    What do you think is the reason for Trumps talk about how all the polls saying he will win?

    Is it him trying to will a win into existence? Laying the groundwork for ”there was corruption - remember the polls saying I would win”? Or him actually belieiving polls say he leads in every swing state?
    It's because he speaks with all bluster and no precision. If he sees one poll that shows a 2 point lead that means all the polls say he's going to win.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,301
    it could also be funding garbage polling which the aggregators pick up and include in their averaging giving the image he is better that he actually us.

    read,   he said on rogan he's paying for polls.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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