Should I stay or should I go? (ya...I'm staying, lol)

brianlux

Great song, but that's not what I mean.  I'm posting this here because other than "Other Music", AMT is where I spend most of my time when here.

So I seriously have to ask, is $35, a 75% increase, for which I gain nothing (I don't do downloads), worth the extra bucks?  For myself, and I suspect others here, this is big-time inflation.  A major disappointment.
So I seriously as myself, "Should I stay or should I go?"

I think I'll go put on some Clash and mull it over.

You?

F Me In The Brain

Everyone must make their own choice.
For me?  Well worth it.

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/282280/things-i-spent-40-on-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-ten-club/p4#latest

brianlux

F Me In The Brain said:

Everyone must make their own choice.
For me?  Well worth it.

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/282280/things-i-spent-40-on-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-ten-club/p4#latest

The Ten Club is great to me too because the people here are great and the moderators are great.  What's not great is a BIG wealthy band charging exorbitant prices for a fan club site.  My other favorite bands don't do that- two of them in particular who have been making music longer and (now days, anyway) better and do not play in major sports arenas. 
So my dilemma is feeling close to the fans here, having much respect for admin, but losing faith in a band that is more and more becoming a money machine.  

F Me In The Brain

I understand everyone looks at things differently.   To me, as noted in that thread, $40 (or whatever it will be now) is next to meaningless.  So many things require that amount of money that give me almost nothing.  

Good luck finding the path forward which works best for you.

brianlux

F Me In The Brain said:

I understand everyone looks at things differently.   To me, as noted in that thread, $40 (or whatever it will be now) is next to meaningless.  So many things require that amount of money that give me almost nothing.  

Good luck finding the path forward which works best for you.

I appreciate that, thanks.  I'll give my decision much thought. 
There is a lot to lose for a mere $40.  On the other hand, if I stay, I know I'd rather have given that extra $15 to one of the organizations my wife and I support.  They need it, this band does not.

Zod

I'll keep mine going as long as the band keeps touring, because I've used and received 10c tickets for almost all the shows I attended for the past 24 years.

I do think it's a bit steep for what it is.  It's $35 USD (so about $50 CDN for me), for access to presale tickets and the "Right" the spend more money on merch.   That makes me feel like it's more like when I used to join other fan clubs just for the presale access.  Whatever other perks came along with it were kind of useless, i considered it a premium for getting quality tickets.   I think 10c is moving into the realm.

It's odd, but I feel like Metallica is more a corporate machine than PJ, but their fan club is now free.  Once the stopped sending out physical items (the old magazines), they made it free.

I feel like 10c is a bit different.  10c isn't only the fan club, they seem to run everything for the band (website, merch sales, and all the stuff), where other bands don't blend it like that.  So in a way it feels like the 10c members fund Pearl Jam to run their entire operation (not just the 10c)?

I also wonder how many people did the same thing I did?  As soon as the 10c single ended, I dropped to digital.   I don't use the codes because I buy cd's from the shows I attend (and it leaves a bad taste that you have to pay extra to get a flac copy).  I don't use tshirts etc... Maybe too many people did that and they have budget shortage?

On the flip side the price has been the same for a while, so a price increase was probably reasonable, just not 75%.

1ThoughtKnown

Stay.  $35 US works for me for all this:

• Priority Ticketing - Ten Club holds the best tickets in the house for members-only presale opportunities and rewards longtime fans for their dedication with seniority-based seating. Ten Club continually improves upon its ticketing program to ensure that fan club members have access to the most tickets possible per show.
• Video Content (NEW) - Exclusive access to video content in the “Inside” section of the video page.
• Bootleg Download - Your choice of a free MP3 or $10.00 off of any other digital format of a live concert recording.
• Full Website Access - Includes access to exclusive members-only sections
• Membership Items (NEW) -Specially priced members-only annual merchandise items
• Exclusive Merchandise - Access to limited edition posters, vinyl, shirts, and all kinds of goodies only available to Ten Club members.
• Merchandise Discount Events -Discounts and exclusive offers in the Pearl Jam shop
• Forums - Posting privilege in the Pearl Jam forum community.
• Monthly Email Newsletter -Updates about the band, releases, tours, contests, merchandise, activism and more, sent on the 10th of every month.
• Contest Eligibility - Monthly newsletter contests with prizes.
• Ten Club Radio - Exclusive access to Ten Club Radio.

mickeyrat

so no free shirt anymore for $5 dollars less than current.

I would hope the current digital subscribers would be good with part of their increase is going to vitalogy foundation if I read the email right.

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

so no free shirt anymore for $5 dollars less than current.

I would hope the current digital subscribers would be good with part of their increase is going to vitalogy foundation if I read the email right.

For me, that it not a bonus.  My wife and I tithe our income to various social and environmental organizations that we carefully scrutinize to make sure they are the very best we can find in terms out outfits that do the most with our money.  I don't need a rock band making that decision for me.  It may not be a lot of money, but I do not appreciate them making that decision.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

so no free shirt anymore for $5 dollars less than current.

I would hope the current digital subscribers would be good with part of their increase is going to vitalogy foundation if I read the email right.

For me, that it not a bonus.  My wife and I tithe our income to various social and environmental organizations that we carefully scrutinize to make sure they are the very best we can find in terms out outfits that do the most with our money.  I don't need a rock band making that decision for me.  It may not be a lot of money, but I do not appreciate them making that decision.

leads then to question, do you know what the foundation supports?

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

so no free shirt anymore for $5 dollars less than current.

I would hope the current digital subscribers would be good with part of their increase is going to vitalogy foundation if I read the email right.

For me, that it not a bonus.  My wife and I tithe our income to various social and environmental organizations that we carefully scrutinize to make sure they are the very best we can find in terms out outfits that do the most with our money.  I don't need a rock band making that decision for me.  It may not be a lot of money, but I do not appreciate them making that decision.

leads then to question, do you know what the foundation supports?

Actually, not really.  I only know generically what they support:  environment, homelessness, and indigenous causes.  But that's not nearly enough of what I want to know.  When I donate to organizations like Wildlands Network, Natural Resources Defense Council, American River Conservancy, Southern Poverty Law Center, Foothill Indian Education Alliance, etc., I know what they do and at the very least, I have a  general idea of what the money I send them goes toward, and I know they do not spend an exorbitant amount of money on administration, infrastructure, or salaries. Those are factors that led me to leave Greenpeace and The Sierra Club.  Too much money for organizers, not enough for direct action. I do not know anything about the Vitalogy Foundation's income and expenses.  They are not even rated by Charity Navigator.  

all of what I'm saying here is not to disparage the Vitalogy Foundation.  I'm guessing they do fine work.  But I don't donate my money based on guesses.

Besides, Vitalogy is not the issue for me.  It's about a mega band feeling to me more like a money machine.  I don't mind that Pearl Jam Fan Club charges an admission fee (even though others don't).  But I do object to spending more for less on a band that already generates a ton more money than other bands that I like as well or better.

1ThoughtKnown

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

brianlux

1ThoughtKnown said:

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

Chances are I will "pay the man" (or woman or them or Dave the computer, or whomever), but only because you and so many others (including the mods) here are the best music fans on the face of the earth.  And that's the truth!

GlowGirl

Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with. I am staying. I am currently an analog member so it will be less for me. The big perks for me are the 10c tickets - of which I have gotten several over the years, and the friends I have made. I also like getting first crack at some of the vinyl and other 10C merch. To me $35 a year is worth it for sure. That is like two cocktails in NYC. 

1ThoughtKnown

^^^^ Agreed. It’s been a pretty rough year for me on a personal level, but keeping engaged with this wonderful community has helped in many ways. People may not realize the impact they have on others here.  A platform of free, open and honest discussions were very welcome for me in 2022 to keep my mind off some things. Some things are priceless, some like my therapy, quite costly. While it was valuable, this is far more cost-effective haha. Although, my therapist gave me some of the best advice I’ve ever received - “Think of this as a gift wrapped in sandpaper”. I will never forget that. 

brianlux said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

Chances are I will "pay the man" (or woman or them or Dave the computer, or whomever), but only because you and so many others (including the mods) here are the best music fans on the face of the earth.  And that's the truth!

I hear you b! It’s a pretty special community of music fans (see above).  Folks like you, GlowGirl, Loujoe, May30th, GuyDudebro and many others in this little PJ Forum vinyl community are just kickass music fans. How could you leave? Fuck it, I’ll send you $20 US and you can donate it whichever of your causes you want! 😉

stuckinline

Brian, I completely understand your feelings, but this community will miss you if you decide to leave.

brianlux

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^ Agreed. It’s been a pretty rough year for me on a personal level, but keeping engaged with this wonderful community has helped in many ways. People may not realize the impact they have on others here.  A platform of free, open and honest discussions were very welcome for me in 2022 to keep my mind off some things. Some things are priceless, some like my therapy, quite costly. While it was valuable, this is far more cost-effective haha. Although, my therapist gave me some of the best advice I’ve ever received - “Think of this as a gift wrapped in sandpaper”. I will never forget that. 

brianlux said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

Chances are I will "pay the man" (or woman or them or Dave the computer, or whomever), but only because you and so many others (including the mods) here are the best music fans on the face of the earth.  And that's the truth!

I hear you b! It’s a pretty special community of music fans (see above).  Folks like you, GlowGirl, Loujoe, May30th, GuyDudebro and many others in this little PJ Forum vinyl community are just kickass music fans. How could you leave? Fuck it, I’ll send you $20 US and you can donate it whichever of your causes you want! 😉

Majorly generous of you 1T, but no need, I'm good.  Besides, hells bells, how can I leave you good people? lol.  Thanks so much!

brianlux

stuckinline said:

Brian, I completely understand your feelings, but this community will miss you if you decide to leave.

Thank you!  I'm good, I'm staying. In fact, I just updated my payment info.  I guess I just needed to get the minor disappointment out of my system. And it's not like I hate the band or anything.  They are good souls and seeing them live in Missoula in 2012 was right up there as one of the best shows I've ever seen, anywhere, any time.

Thanks for putting up with my minor complaint.  There are so many bigger things to worry or be concerned about.

GlowGirl

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^ Agreed. It’s been a pretty rough year for me on a personal level, but keeping engaged with this wonderful community has helped in many ways. People may not realize the impact they have on others here.  A platform of free, open and honest discussions were very welcome for me in 2022 to keep my mind off some things. Some things are priceless, some like my therapy, quite costly. While it was valuable, this is far more cost-effective haha. Although, my therapist gave me some of the best advice I’ve ever received - “Think of this as a gift wrapped in sandpaper”. I will never forget that. 

brianlux said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

Chances are I will "pay the man" (or woman or them or Dave the computer, or whomever), but only because you and so many others (including the mods) here are the best music fans on the face of the earth.  And that's the truth!

I hear you b! It’s a pretty special community of music fans (see above).  Folks like you, GlowGirl, Loujoe, May30th, GuyDudebro and many others in this little PJ Forum vinyl community are just kickass music fans. How could you leave? Fuck it, I’ll send you $20 US and you can donate it whichever of your causes you want! 😉

I really hope you have a much better 2023. 

1ThoughtKnown

GlowGirl said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^^ Agreed. It’s been a pretty rough year for me on a personal level, but keeping engaged with this wonderful community has helped in many ways. People may not realize the impact they have on others here.  A platform of free, open and honest discussions were very welcome for me in 2022 to keep my mind off some things. Some things are priceless, some like my therapy, quite costly. While it was valuable, this is far more cost-effective haha. Although, my therapist gave me some of the best advice I’ve ever received - “Think of this as a gift wrapped in sandpaper”. I will never forget that. 

brianlux said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Will miss you if you leave blux! But you have to do what you have to do my friend. 

Chances are I will "pay the man" (or woman or them or Dave the computer, or whomever), but only because you and so many others (including the mods) here are the best music fans on the face of the earth.  And that's the truth!

I hear you b! It’s a pretty special community of music fans (see above).  Folks like you, GlowGirl, Loujoe, May30th, GuyDudebro and many others in this little PJ Forum vinyl community are just kickass music fans. How could you leave? Fuck it, I’ll send you $20 US and you can donate it whichever of your causes you want! 😉

I really hope you have a much better 2023. 

Thanks GG! It gets better every day. You have to realize that some things are completely out of your control. The book “The Untethered Soul” also helped immensely. Just a great read 

static111

Bri I went through this during my last renewal for digital and decided just to stick around because I like to hang out here. I know this is gonna be an unpopular opinion and maybe get me flamed but here goes.  With the massive price increase for little if any additional value I am thinking my 27 yr fan club run may be over.  With the bands best live shows behind them, and the skyrocketing costs of their tickets as well as the added costs of traveling and lodging, I think my fan club days will be at an end this coming August.  I might change my tune if they have a late career renaissance like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, but I'm not that into giving the band that much more of my money at this point.  $35 bucks to have the same conversations over and over seems a bit much, plus I could use the money to get 4 months of having a blue check on twitter. In all seriousness I haven't been that thrilled with the band since 2014 and have just been holding out hope that they will catch another big wave. If I want to pay insane money to see a nostalgia act I will go see the Stones.

F Me In The Brain

Massive price increase?
Dang.
It is bizarre out there.

F Me In The Brain

BTW, I'm not flaming your choice to leave...only that the price increase is massive.  This, to me, is a head scratcher.  How much a month did they increase the price?

Lerxst1992

F Me In The Brain said:

BTW, I'm not flaming your choice to leave...only that the price increase is massive.  This, to me, is a head scratcher.  How much a month did they increase the price?

I get it’s only $15 but it’s nearly double, for a band that has been deservedly slowing down for the past ten years. Compound that with the price of heat heading into this winter is thousands of dollars more than it ever was before, it’s curious. I get the download and merch, but I’d just go out and buy that if desired.  The real cost is for the ticket lotteries registration , and in the northeast, a very populated region that has a TON of PJ fans still, they just haven’t been playing many shows here the last decade. 

So matching the cost, with the percent increase, with the lack of locally/regionally available content, it’s curious. But I’m likely staying since Mr Fresno is.

lastexitlondon

This is the only place i go/use for any communication with some really nice people/friends in my mind anyway. 
I will find the money at the time but reading these posts made me think.....pj don't be so greedy to loyal fans. Not cool.
Which i guess we all think. Love to you brian and your wife. Great humans making great waves in a positive way!

brianlux

static111 said:

Bri I went through this during my last renewal for digital and decided just to stick around because I like to hang out here. I know this is gonna be an unpopular opinion and maybe get me flamed but here goes.  With the massive price increase for little if any additional value I am thinking my 27 yr fan club run may be over.  With the bands best live shows behind them, and the skyrocketing costs of their tickets as well as the added costs of traveling and lodging, I think my fan club days will be at an end this coming August.  I might change my tune if they have a late career renaissance like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, but I'm not that into giving the band that much more of my money at this point.  $35 bucks to have the same conversations over and over seems a bit much, plus I could use the money to get 4 months of having a blue check on twitter. In all seriousness I haven't been that thrilled with the band since 2014 and have just been holding out hope that they will catch another big wave. If I want to pay insane money to see a nostalgia act I will go see the Stones.

You would be sorely missed, my friend.  If you do go, I hope we keep in touch anyway!

As for your possibly not so popular opinion, I have some similar feeling and hopes.   I've been particularly hopeful that PJ might have that "late career renaissance" you mentioned.  I've thought that and AM pretty sure I've mentioned it around here a number of times.  But I've been thinking and saying that for quite awhile and am beginning to wonder if that's going to happen.  To be sure, it's not a common thing.  Countless band have rested on their laurels and keep going out doing the hits over and over. But like you said, Dylan and Young managed to have great resurgences.  And other bands with less mass appeal but no less quality have also done so- Dinosaur Jr, The Dream Syndicate, Mission of Burma, The Circle Jerks offshoot, OFF!, The Feelies, and a few like Juliana Hatfield who, after making records for 35 years has never even slumped once. 
So I keep waiting, and waiting.  And I dare say, maybe being a little more "hungry" (like those other bands I mentioned) is what Pearl Jam really needs the most now.   Maybe the best them for them would be if we left in droves. 

Not meaning to piss off anyone here.  I wouldn't say any of this if I didn't care.

josevolution

I doubt that this issue was brought up for a vote with the Band! But $35 is totally worth the chance at securing tickets 1st I’m on automatic renewal and have been paying dues since April 93, I’m not about to stop now I’m riding this out till the end!!

static111

F Me In The Brain said:

BTW, I'm not flaming your choice to leave...only that the price increase is massive.  This, to me, is a head scratcher.  How much a month did they increase the price?

$20 to $35 is a massive increase.  For what appears to be less/the same non benefits as previous years.  With the slow down in touring and the focus on selling merchandise to ten club members it just isn't worth it.  Yeah $15 isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things and I can afford it, but this is one of those things where it doesn't add up for my cost benefit ratio.  I saw maybe 15 is shows from '98-2014 with the best shows being in the '98-'03 time frame. Not to mention the last show I saw in 2014 was just pretty good and overall lacked the feeling that I had grown used to when seeing PJ.

 At this point being charged $35 to maybe get a $100+ dollar ticket and have access to spend even more money on 'exclusive fan club' merchandise is ridiculous to me.  I can't stop buying gas or groceries when the prices get jacked, but I can refuse to take part in a cash grab from one of my favorite millionaire bands.  If I really want to see a PJ show that likely won't measure up to my past shows, I will just wait until the dynamic pricing goes down low enough to snag a nose bleed. Anyway I have a low number and have consistently scored seats between row 2-14, so this will be good for people at the back of the line.  Maybe I will be amazed by something before the renewal deadline and my mind will be changed.  I hope so, I have been waiting this long after all.

static111

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Bri I went through this during my last renewal for digital and decided just to stick around because I like to hang out here. I know this is gonna be an unpopular opinion and maybe get me flamed but here goes.  With the massive price increase for little if any additional value I am thinking my 27 yr fan club run may be over.  With the bands best live shows behind them, and the skyrocketing costs of their tickets as well as the added costs of traveling and lodging, I think my fan club days will be at an end this coming August.  I might change my tune if they have a late career renaissance like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, but I'm not that into giving the band that much more of my money at this point.  $35 bucks to have the same conversations over and over seems a bit much, plus I could use the money to get 4 months of having a blue check on twitter. In all seriousness I haven't been that thrilled with the band since 2014 and have just been holding out hope that they will catch another big wave. If I want to pay insane money to see a nostalgia act I will go see the Stones.

You would be sorely missed, my friend.  If you do go, I hope we keep in touch anyway!

As for your possibly not so popular opinion, I have some similar feeling and hopes.   I've been particularly hopeful that PJ might have that "late career renaissance" you mentioned.  I've thought that and AM pretty sure I've mentioned it around here a number of times.  But I've been thinking and saying that for quite awhile and am beginning to wonder if that's going to happen.  To be sure, it's not a common thing.  Countless band have rested on their laurels and keep going out doing the hits over and over. But like you said, Dylan and Young managed to have great resurgences.  And other bands with less mass appeal but no less quality have also done so- Dinosaur Jr, The Dream Syndicate, Mission of Burma, The Circle Jerks offshoot, OFF!, The Feelies, and a few like Juliana Hatfield who, after making records for 35 years has never even slumped once. 
So I keep waiting, and waiting.  And I dare say, maybe being a little more "hungry" (like those other bands I mentioned) is what Pearl Jam really needs the most now.   Maybe the best them for them would be if we left in droves. 

Not meaning to piss off anyone here.  I wouldn't say any of this if I didn't care.

We will definitely stay in touch Bri, you can count on it.

F Me In The Brain

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

BTW, I'm not flaming your choice to leave...only that the price increase is massive.  This, to me, is a head scratcher.  How much a month did they increase the price?

$20 to $35 is a massive increase.  For what appears to be less/the same non benefits as previous years.  With the slow down in touring and the focus on selling merchandise to ten club members it just isn't worth it.  Yeah $15 isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things and I can afford it, but this is one of those things where it doesn't add up for my cost benefit ratio.  I saw maybe 15 is shows from '98-2014 with the best shows being in the '98-'03 time frame. Not to mention the last show I saw in 2014 was just pretty good and overall lacked the feeling that I had grown used to when seeing PJ.

 At this point being charged $35 to maybe get a $100+ dollar ticket and have access to spend even more money on 'exclusive fan club' merchandise is ridiculous to me.  I can't stop buying gas or groceries when the prices get jacked, but I can refuse to take part in a cash grab from one of my favorite millionaire bands.  If I really want to see a PJ show that likely won't measure up to my past shows, I will just wait until the dynamic pricing goes down low enough to snag a nose bleed. Anyway I have a low number and have consistently scored seats between row 2-14, so this will be good for people at the back of the line.  Maybe I will be amazed by something before the renewal deadline and my mind will be changed.  I hope so, I have been waiting this long after all.

That is your option to choose and all of the reasons you lay out make good sense, to you, I'm sure.
I don't share the perspective.   I don't do a cost benefit analysis on $15.  Don't do it on $35.  Don't think it is a worth anything to do that when I spent $150+ on an average-to-below-average delivery of dinner last night.  By now that is in the toilet.  

Good luck with your decision.  

static111

F Me In The Brain said:

static111 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

BTW, I'm not flaming your choice to leave...only that the price increase is massive.  This, to me, is a head scratcher.  How much a month did they increase the price?

$20 to $35 is a massive increase.  For what appears to be less/the same non benefits as previous years.  With the slow down in touring and the focus on selling merchandise to ten club members it just isn't worth it.  Yeah $15 isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things and I can afford it, but this is one of those things where it doesn't add up for my cost benefit ratio.  I saw maybe 15 is shows from '98-2014 with the best shows being in the '98-'03 time frame. Not to mention the last show I saw in 2014 was just pretty good and overall lacked the feeling that I had grown used to when seeing PJ.

 At this point being charged $35 to maybe get a $100+ dollar ticket and have access to spend even more money on 'exclusive fan club' merchandise is ridiculous to me.  I can't stop buying gas or groceries when the prices get jacked, but I can refuse to take part in a cash grab from one of my favorite millionaire bands.  If I really want to see a PJ show that likely won't measure up to my past shows, I will just wait until the dynamic pricing goes down low enough to snag a nose bleed. Anyway I have a low number and have consistently scored seats between row 2-14, so this will be good for people at the back of the line.  Maybe I will be amazed by something before the renewal deadline and my mind will be changed.  I hope so, I have been waiting this long after all.

That is your option to choose and all of the reasons you lay out make good sense, to you, I'm sure.
I don't share the perspective.   I don't do a cost benefit analysis on $15.  Don't do it on $35.  Don't think it is a worth anything to do that when I spent $150+ on an average-to-below-average delivery of dinner last night.  By now that is in the toilet.  

Good luck with your decision.  

$150 on delivery!!