Ticketmaster, Tay Tay and chasing phantoms

24

Comments

  • ZodZod Posts: 8,909
    PJ always seems to have some negotiation skills.   The old rule was no more than 10% of a venue could be allocated for a fan club, but in my experience 10c/PJ often seemed to blow through that rule.  Not sure what they give up in the negotiations, or how they pull it off.  Not only would the eclipse the rule, but most of the time they got access to the best seats (where other fan clubs would have tickets scattered throughout the venue).
  • jsk175 said:
    Consequence of Sound

    “The staggering number of bot attacks as well as fans who didn’t have invite codes drove unprecedented traffic on our site, resulting in 3.5 billion total system requests – 4x our previous peak,” Ticketmaster said earlier this week
    Thanks for providing. What a shitshow!
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,609
    BRONDO said:
    my boss is not a scalper, but knew her concert tixs would be in high demand, he bought 2 for tampa 4 for pitt and 6 for cincy. It wasnt just the professional scalpers and bots.  
    The rise of Stubhub and the like has made amateur scalpers out of millions of people.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • pawlowski1097pawlowski1097 Philadelphia, PAPosts: 544
    I don’t know how one person could get in and buy 3 sets of tickets to 3 different shows. I could not even get thru the 2000 + people in front of me in queue. Crazy 
  • hihobibohihobibo Tampa, FLPosts: 921
    I don’t know how one person could get in and buy 3 sets of tickets to 3 different shows. I could not even get thru the 2000 + people in front of me in queue. Crazy 
    3 emails on 3 devices on different servers (home wifi, phone not on wifi, another phone/or at office using their network). 
  • rett1448rett1448 Posts: 19
    edited November 2022
    if we had tay-tay’s fans (hey swiftees hey) plus all of us ….. 
    t-master would have been toast 
  • on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain…Posts: 13,295
    edited November 2022
    Rollingstone just published an interview with Springsteen and they asked him about his own ticket selling fiasco:

    It caused a bit of an uproar in the fan community because some of the tickets used dynamic prices, and some tickets hit $5,000. Did you know in advance about those price points and dynamic pricing, and do you have any regrets about that?
    What I do is a very simple thing. I tell my guys, “Go out and see what everybody else is doing. Let’s charge a little less.” That’s generally the directions. They go out and set it up. For the past 49 years or however long we’ve been playing, we’ve pretty much been out there under market value. I’ve enjoyed that. It’s been great for the fans.

    This time I told them, “Hey, we’re 73 years old. The guys are there. I want to do what everybody else is doing, my peers.” So that’s what happened. That’s what they did [laughs].

    But ticket buying has gotten very confusing, not just for the fans, but for the artists also. And the bottom line is that most of our tickets are totally affordable. They’re in that affordable range. We have those tickets that are going to go for that [higher] price somewhere anyway. The ticket broker or someone is going to be taking that money. I’m going, “Hey, why shouldn’t that money go to the guys that are going to be up there sweating three hours a night for it?”

    It created an opportunity for that to occur. And so at that point, we went for it. I know it was unpopular with some fans. But if there’s any complaints on the way out, you can have your money back.


    As you said, the fans were pretty upset. Backstreets said it caused them to suffer a “crisis of faith.” They wrote an op-ed where they said that dynamic pricing “violates an implicit contract between Bruce Springsteen and his fans.” How did you feel about all that blowback against you?
    Well, I’m old. I take a lot of things in stride [laughs]. You don’t like to be criticized. You certainly don’t like to be the poster boy for high ticket prices. It’s the last thing you prefer to be. But that’s how it went. You have to own the decisions you have made and go out and just continue to do your best. And that was my take on it. I think if folks come to the show, they’re going to have a good time.

    Do you think in the future you’ll avoid using dynamic pricing, where the prices change in front of your eyes during the initial on-sale?
    I don’t know. I think in the future, we’ll be talking about it, of course [laughs]. It changes from tour to tour. We will be coming back. I’m sure we’ll be playing outside somewhat. That’ll be a whole other discussion when that comes around. I don’t want to say anything now, but we’ll see what happens.


    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park 
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)
    2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville


  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,951
    on2legs said:
    Rollingstone just published an interview with Springsteen and they asked him about his own ticket selling fiasco:

    It caused a bit of an uproar in the fan community because some of the tickets used dynamic prices, and some tickets hit $5,000. Did you know in advance about those price points and dynamic pricing, and do you have any regrets about that?
    What I do is a very simple thing. I tell my guys, “Go out and see what everybody else is doing. Let’s charge a little less.” That’s generally the directions. They go out and set it up. For the past 49 years or however long we’ve been playing, we’ve pretty much been out there under market value. I’ve enjoyed that. It’s been great for the fans.

    This time I told them, “Hey, we’re 73 years old. The guys are there. I want to do what everybody else is doing, my peers.” So that’s what happened. That’s what they did [laughs].

    But ticket buying has gotten very confusing, not just for the fans, but for the artists also. And the bottom line is that most of our tickets are totally affordable. They’re in that affordable range. We have those tickets that are going to go for that [higher] price somewhere anyway. The ticket broker or someone is going to be taking that money. I’m going, “Hey, why shouldn’t that money go to the guys that are going to be up there sweating three hours a night for it?”

    It created an opportunity for that to occur. And so at that point, we went for it. I know it was unpopular with some fans. But if there’s any complaints on the way out, you can have your money back.


    As you said, the fans were pretty upset. Backstreets said it caused them to suffer a “crisis of faith.” They wrote an op-ed where they said that dynamic pricing “violates an implicit contract between Bruce Springsteen and his fans.” How did you feel about all that blowback against you?
    Well, I’m old. I take a lot of things in stride [laughs]. You don’t like to be criticized. You certainly don’t like to be the poster boy for high ticket prices. It’s the last thing you prefer to be. But that’s how it went. You have to own the decisions you have made and go out and just continue to do your best. And that was my take on it. I think if folks come to the show, they’re going to have a good time.

    Do you think in the future you’ll avoid using dynamic pricing, where the prices change in front of your eyes during the initial on-sale?
    I don’t know. I think in the future, we’ll be talking about it, of course [laughs]. It changes from tour to tour. We will be coming back. I’m sure we’ll be playing outside somewhat. That’ll be a whole other discussion when that comes around. I don’t want to say anything now, but we’ll see what happens.


    At least Bruce is owning up to it.  Respect him for that even if I think dynamic pricing sucks.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,951
    Zod said:
    PJ always seems to have some negotiation skills.   The old rule was no more than 10% of a venue could be allocated for a fan club, but in my experience 10c/PJ often seemed to blow through that rule.  Not sure what they give up in the negotiations, or how they pull it off.  Not only would the eclipse the rule, but most of the time they got access to the best seats (where other fan clubs would have tickets scattered throughout the venue).
    My best guess is they take a lower cut of the money...for us to get more tickets.  Only thing corporations like ticketmaster are going to understand is money. give them more they will bend more.
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 11,687
    Get_Right said:
    Maybe the politicians will actually do something this time.I am not hopeful. Big money always wins.

    This literally made me LOL.

    Comedy has to be based on truth. 

  • on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain…Posts: 13,295
    Nothing will change.  Ticketmaster will end up giving us codes to redeem for free tickets to lame shows to pretend like they were punished.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park 
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)
    2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville


  • Curious how many verified codes were sent out. If they have no inventory left or at least small amounts, seems like they over estimated how many invite codes to send out, which came with a 6 ticket max. Too many codes for a show and everyone snagging upwards of 6 tickets leads to a sellout.

    Also, stagger the on sale dates by region or in show batches of 3-4 cities per day. A whole lot less traffic on that site and no crashes possibly.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,609
     

    Also, stagger the on sale dates by region or in show batches of 3-4 cities per day. A whole lot less traffic on that site and no crashes possibly.
    This part is so obvious and simple it's mind-boggling that TM didn't go that route.
    There'd still have been lots of upset folks shut out, but the server issues would have been largely avoided.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • GB281198GB281198 VirginiaPosts: 224
    The sad thing is this could all be prevented if the artist wanted to stop it. Went to a Bruce show about ten years ago that was credit card entry only that I got great seats for. They put my card in a handheld device at the gate that printed out my tickets. This eliminates the scalpers and helps the fans but sadly that's not what they're interested in doing.
  • PureandEasyPureandEasy Posts: 5,730
    BRONDO said:
    my boss is not a scalper, but knew her concert tixs would be in high demand, he bought 2 for tampa 4 for pitt and 6 for cincy. It wasnt just the professional scalpers and bots.  
    and she was able to purchase all of those through TM presale?  That should not be allowed.  They know the demand for these tix would be incredibly high, should have been some limit on how many tickets you can purchase at one time or on one CC.  It's a mess, honestly, I will not go through TM for PJ tickets ever again.  If I don't win the lottery for fan club tickets, I will hope one of my friends does.  
  • ZodZod Posts: 8,909
    GB281198 said:
    The sad thing is this could all be prevented if the artist wanted to stop it. Went to a Bruce show about ten years ago that was credit card entry only that I got great seats for. They put my card in a handheld device at the gate that printed out my tickets. This eliminates the scalpers and helps the fans but sadly that's not what they're interested in doing.

    I forgot about that.   I think it was ticketless.  I remember U2 used it when I saw them in 2015 (at least for the fan club tickets).

    I think one of the issues is fans complain they can't sell tickets they aren't going to use.   Personally, I think I've been 3 or 4 hundred bigger concerts in the last 40 years.   I've eaten tickets to an everclear show, foo fighters show, and a judas priest show, all because of last minute illness.  It's not a bad ratio.   I ate the tickets anyways because it was a game time decision to not go.  I'd gladly give up the ability to sell and make tickets transferrable, if it meant cutting out scalpers.
  • Nobody ever mentions how season ticket holders sometimes get their own presales. If I'm a season ticket holder for whatever NFL team and Taylor Swift is coming, I'd be real tempted to resist the urge of scalping my Taylor Swift presale tickets for a few years worth of NFL tickets.

    And there's thousands of others just at one stadium thinking the same thing.

    People also need to realize that "Verified Fan" means somewhere between fuckall and jackshit. No, they're not gonna run mom and dad through 20 questions to "verify if someone is an actual fan."

    A lotto would have helped, as would have not allowing transfers of tickets.

    There's probably 20 things Taylor and her team could have done different, but at the end of the day, is it any sweat off her back if little Susie can't go because mom can't pay $20,000 per ticket to have them under the tree like she promised?

    Oh and sharing your tips on TikTok? Lesson learned.
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,348
    I think the reality is Taylor Swift is too popular to tour. Demand is too high. She would have to play 5-25 shows in cities (depending on the market) to meet demand. 

    Ticketmaster sucks. But the biggest blame is that I don’t know if we’ve had an artist this massive before and we don’t have a touring infrastructure to handle the demand. 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,348
    To be clear. Yes I know she COULD play that many shows, but then that’s a year of her life. Probably 2 after international. You can’t demand that. 
  • I think the reality is Taylor Swift is too popular to tour. Demand is too high. She would have to play 5-25 shows in cities (depending on the market) to meet demand. 

    Ticketmaster sucks. But the biggest blame is that I don’t know if we’ve had an artist this massive before and we don’t have a touring infrastructure to handle the demand. 

    I'm sure her lack of Sunday-Thursday shows didn't help.

    I wouldn't be surprised if fans travel, especially as the tour hits summer.

    Basically the only thing working in her favor is the generic setlists each night. She won't have people chasing white whales to finish a certain album.
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 5,286
    TM says this was a bot attack. This is what happens in modern times. If TM is so evil, maybe artists should front the tour production costs and sell direct to consumer so there is no bag man to blame. Swift should get credit for scheduling a full tour featuring multiple dates in the big cities. The demand for her tickets is incredible. Some fans think Bruce should also get some heat for wanting market value? 

    With so many ticket requests, in any industry, prices will skyrocket. Not every artist is willing to leave millions of dollars behind like PJ. But other artists play full tours on a semi regular basis, at least fans have a chance to see Swift near their home towns.  That comes with cost. That is a huge trade off to the piecemeal small town tours we see here, which can overwhelm small city logistics and leave fans stranded hundreds of miles from home, when hotels are over booked for hundreds of miles. That is also angering, and extremely dangerous to the consumer.
  • demetrios said:
    Nearly twenty years ago PJ addressed this, and it's STILL going on. I will never understand how Ticketmaster, which is clearly a monopoly, is still getting away with this. 
  • ZodZod Posts: 8,909
    I agree on the getting away part, but I also remember what it was like before the gobbled up the remaining ticketing companies, especially in the online era.  Back in the day TM was the only one that had a website that didn't crash.   Most of the smaller TM companies that had access to older venues or in states/provinces that didn't use TM, they would always buck, crash, and result in a mess.

    I absolutely agree TM is a monopoly and should be broken up.  Will it make concerts more affordable? probably not.  Will it make easier to get tickets to hot demand shows? probably not.  Will it end platinum seating? probably not.


  • Alpine Valley Music Theatre East Troy, Wisconsin (September 03, 2011); Alpine Valley Music Theatre East Troy, Wisconsin (September 04, 2011); Deluna Fest Pensacola, FL (September 21, 2012); Wrigley Field (July 19, 2013); Milwaukee, WI (October 20, 2014); Wrigley Field I (August 20, 2016); Wrigley Field II (August 22, 2016); Home Shows Seattle Night 1 (August 08, 2018), Home Shows Seattle Night 2 (August 10, 2018), Apollo Theater (September 10, 2022), Madison Square Garden (September 11, 2022), Bourbon & Beyond Louisville (September 17th, 2022). 
  • GB281198GB281198 VirginiaPosts: 224

  • YourDirtisMyfoodYourDirtisMyfood BostonPosts: 4,057
    I wouldn't be surprised if 60 Minutes does a story on this issue with TM in the next few months since Taylor is going on tour for the first time in 5 years this summer and this is the type of investigative piece that they would like to showcase.  I'd be curious to see how the bots work in great detail.
  • SaravaSarava Naperville, ILPosts: 1,870
    edited November 2022
    My wife has a presale code for Garth Brooks in Vegas for tomorrow. She has a timeslot of 4pm-5pm. I dont remember them doing time slots the last time I did a verified sale. So I think there's progress in them trying to break up the globs of people coming all at once.

    And lets be honest. Taylor Swift is about as popular as any artist in the world. The issues with her fans probably wouldn't be an issue for just about any other artist.
  • YourDirtisMyfoodYourDirtisMyfood BostonPosts: 4,057
    Sarava said:
    My wife has a presale code for Garth Brooks in Vegas for tomorrow. She has a timeslot of 4pm-5pm. I dont remember them doing time slots the last time I did a verified sale. So I think there's progress in them trying to break up the globs of people coming all at once.

    And lets be honest. Taylor Swift is about as popular as any artist in the world. The issues with her fans probably wouldn't be an issue for just about any other artist.
    Nah, the truth is TS is in a completely different league then probably anyone else right now.  This isn't like getting tickets to Aerosmith or Green Day.  Taylor is a pop-culture experience, not much different then seeing Michael Jackson in the 80s.  Not saying TS is more or less popular at either peaks with Michael, but she truly is a pop-culture icon that transcends all music genres.
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