Also, I really hope the people willing to die on Joe Rogan's free speech hill are willing to put it on the line when books are being banned from schools, and theres a legitimate push to censor teachers and educators from teaching aspects of American history that portray the brutal realities of slavery, its history and its fall out are being banned from being taught. (hell, not even that, just anything that could make white people uncomfortable with things that occurred because of white history).
because that is the real censorship in 2022.
Nobody is dying on Joe Rogan's free speech hill. I don't listen to his podcasts and don't think anything of him because I don't care. Unless he is talking about hate speech or inciting violence or harm on others, I think that Neil Young and Rogan can be on Spotify and the world win spin just fine. People are adults and can consume the information they want. That is what happens in a free society. Yes, Neil is free not to have his songs on Spotify but I just think he is being childish.
We should teach history as it was. For sure. Agree.
Isn’t some of this inciting harm on others? I can see that these Rogan episodes aren’t changing minds, but cementing deluded thoughts with cherry picked facts and falsehoods is practically just as damaging.
Well, I've watched maybe one or two JRE YouTube interviews so I can't speak for every last item discussed on his show. If we are limiting it just to health and vaccine discussions, then it sucks but I'd rather people be able to listen to who they want even if it is to their detriment then to have only one source of information.
We are very quick to cede authority to the government and large multi-national corporations when it comes to information sharing. It is because we've had it so good in the West for a while and haven't experienced what it is like in some countries like China to have the freedom to only view information from one ideology. Misinformation sucks and we can thank the internet and social media for the platform to do it on a mass scale, but I don't know that I want the alternative.
It isn't an easy situation. I'm not saying I'm right, but this is where my head is now.
But it’s not just the listeners detriment.
Isn’t this ceding authority to a large multinational corporation?
If they’re completely free of regulation with these relatively minor examples, I’m just concerned about where it ends.
I’ve enjoyed plenty of JRE episodes and can appreciate a lot of the question the narrative sentiment but it seems he’s really become laser focused on one aspect and potential audience.
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
If he just left himself, you'd have a point. In encouraging others to follow suit (see his words below) he is absolutely trying to censor Joe Rogan.
But he has that right! You should absolutely be able to petition a private company to take down something you find objectionable. Especially if you have some clout. The tricky thing is that you're sticking your neck out when you do it. Will people line up behind you or tell you you're a censorious ass? We'll see! I think he's being an ass, you don't. Marketplace of ideas.
He's not asking the government to step in so it's not a free speech issue in the first amendment sense. But let's be clear-eyed about the fact that he is trying to lobby Spotify into censoring Rogan to some degree. (Which again...totally within his rights, especially as an artist who has a lever.)
You still don't seem to understand censorship and I'm done trying to explain it.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Joni Mitchell believes in morgellans which is a part of the greater chemtrails conspiracy narrative, not sure she has a leg to stand on in this one.
Weird of you focusing in on that, in all of this.
Why wouldn't I? Joni isn't some warrior against disinformation. We got here because people like her in high social positions spout this crap. I bet if Joe was talking about Morgellans and Chem Trails she wouldn't be in such a hurry to remove her music. It's just hypocritical. Don't get me wrong I love Joni's Music and Neil's and see them as heroes on a lot of issues, but they have both been spouting anti science misinformation for years. I also think Rogan is an idiot for letting some of his guests continue talking. Also yes Spotify sucks and underpays artists duh, that's why I don't use it or any streaming service and buy vinyl, cds and digital, and subscribe to NYA.
Joni Mitchell believes in morgellans which is a part of the greater chemtrails conspiracy narrative, not sure she has a leg to stand on in this one.
Weird of you focusing in on that, in all of this.
Why wouldn't I? Joni isn't some warrior against disinformation. We got here because people like her in high social positions spout this crap. I bet if Joe was talking about Morgellans and Chem Trails she wouldn't be in such a hurry to remove her music. It's just hypocritical. Don't get me wrong I love Joni's Music and Neil's and see them as heroes on a lot of issues, but they have both been spouting anti science misinformation for years. I also think Rogan is an idiot for letting some of his guests continue talking. Also yes Spotify sucks and underpays artists duh, that's why I don't use it or any streaming service and buy vinyl, cds and digital, and subscribe to NYA.
Joni Mitchell believes in morgellans which is a part of the greater chemtrails conspiracy narrative, not sure she has a leg to stand on in this one.
Weird of you focusing in on that, in all of this.
Why wouldn't I? Joni isn't some warrior against disinformation. We got here because people like her in high social positions spout this crap. I bet if Joe was talking about Morgellans and Chem Trails she wouldn't be in such a hurry to remove her music. It's just hypocritical. Don't get me wrong I love Joni's Music and Neil's and see them as heroes on a lot of issues, but they have both been spouting anti science misinformation for years. I also think Rogan is an idiot for letting some of his guests continue talking. Also yes Spotify sucks and underpays artists duh, that's why I don't use it or any streaming service and buy vinyl, cds and digital, and subscribe to NYA.
What has Neil said?
Distrustful of gmos or is that ok?
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,304
My understanding is Morgellons (that's the correct spelling, but whatever, no biggie) is a disease not a belief. In any case, this is not at all related to the issue here. Let it go.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I do find it funny that we’re all about cancel culture yet no one blinks about a “boycott” which is the same thing. And it’s been done since the 19th century when the field hands revolted against Lord Boycott.
My understanding is Morgellons (that's the correct spelling, but whatever, no biggie) is a disease not a belief. In any case, this is not at all related to the issue here. Let it go.
If there’s no correlation then it’s fair to point out the hypocrisy if she willingly spread that idea after it was proven false by the same standard we’re applying to Rogan
Joni Mitchell believes in morgellans which is a part of the greater chemtrails conspiracy narrative, not sure she has a leg to stand on in this one.
Weird of you focusing in on that, in all of this.
Why wouldn't I? Joni isn't some warrior against disinformation. We got here because people like her in high social positions spout this crap. I bet if Joe was talking about Morgellans and Chem Trails she wouldn't be in such a hurry to remove her music. It's just hypocritical. Don't get me wrong I love Joni's Music and Neil's and see them as heroes on a lot of issues, but they have both been spouting anti science misinformation for years. I also think Rogan is an idiot for letting some of his guests continue talking. Also yes Spotify sucks and underpays artists duh, that's why I don't use it or any streaming service and buy vinyl, cds and digital, and subscribe to NYA.
What has Neil said?
Distrustful of gmos or is that ok?
I couldn’t find an instance of NY spreading false info but more pushing for more honest labeling and the articles I found referenced around 2015 as the time period in which he was petitioning for that.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,304
I do find it funny that we’re all about cancel culture yet no one blinks about a “boycott” which is the same thing. And it’s been done since the 19th century when the field hands revolted against Lord Boycott.
I have no problem with boycotting. That's been around way longer than the more ill-defined, rather nebulous, and trendy thing that is called "cancel culture". If nothing else, think about the language. Think about George Carlin.
My understanding is Morgellons (that's the correct spelling, but whatever, no biggie) is a disease not a belief. In any case, this is not at all related to the issue here. Let it go.
If there’s no correlation then it’s fair to point out the hypocrisy if she willingly spread that idea after it was proven false by the same standard we’re applying to Rogan
Joni Mitchell believes in morgellans which is a part of the greater chemtrails conspiracy narrative, not sure she has a leg to stand on in this one.
Weird of you focusing in on that, in all of this.
Why wouldn't I? Joni isn't some warrior against disinformation. We got here because people like her in high social positions spout this crap. I bet if Joe was talking about Morgellans and Chem Trails she wouldn't be in such a hurry to remove her music. It's just hypocritical. Don't get me wrong I love Joni's Music and Neil's and see them as heroes on a lot of issues, but they have both been spouting anti science misinformation for years. I also think Rogan is an idiot for letting some of his guests continue talking. Also yes Spotify sucks and underpays artists duh, that's why I don't use it or any streaming service and buy vinyl, cds and digital, and subscribe to NYA.
What has Neil said?
Distrustful of gmos or is that ok?
I couldn’t find an instance of NY spreading false info but more pushing for more honest labeling and the articles I found referenced around 2015 as the time period in which he was petitioning for that.
Apples and oranges. I see no point in bringing this into the picture. It's nit picking and distracting. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just say, why?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
My understanding is Morgellons (that's the correct spelling, but whatever, no biggie) is a disease not a belief. In any case, this is not at all related to the issue here. Let it go.
morgellons is a belief in a disease that doesn't exist and is thought to be caused by "chemtrails" Joni is a hypocrite in regards to anti science disinfo. This is literally the exact kind of misinfo that artists are pulling their music from spotify to combat, no?
"For years, a small but vocal patient community has claimed that the medical establishment is ignoring its debilitating, horrifying-sounding disease. Morgellons, according to its sufferers, is characterized by tiny parasites living under the skin, which produce fiber-like substances that spring from lesions. While most doctors dismissed the disease as an outbreak of delusional parasitosis, Morgellons sufferers have insisted that it was insulting to be told that “it’s all in your head.” Many felt vindicated when the CDC decided to undertake a study of the ailment. Even when a 2011 Mayo Clinic study suggested that the disease is psychosomatic, the Morgellons community clung to hope that the CDC would vindicate them.
But now the CDC’s report is out, and Morgellons activists are horrified: The study, carried out in Northern California, found no environmental or infectious cause, nor evidence of real parasites. The fibers, which many Morgellons patients have insisted were of composed of a substance that was unidentifiable by any lab, were mostly just pieces of fabric and skin fragments from repeated scratching. (You can read the full study on the Public Library of Science.) In conclusion, the CDC writes on its “Unexplained Dermopathy” page,
This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause. Future efforts should focus on helping patients reduce their symptoms through careful attention to treatment of co-existing medical, including psychiatric conditions, that might be contributing to their symptoms.
For many who believe that Morgellons has ruined their lives, this is a bitter pill, and they don’t want to swallow it. They want reassurance that this is real. Joni Mitchell, who says she suffers from Morgellons, told the Los Angeles Times in 2010, “In America, the Morgellons is always diagnosed as ‘delusion of parasites,’ and they send you to a psychiatrist. I’m actually trying to get out of the music business to battle for Morgellons sufferers to receive the credibility that’s owed to them.” Another sufferer told the San Francisco Chronicle yesterday, “We just want to be acknowledged. This is not a delusion.”
But she isn’t actively selling it to listeners daily. On top of that, we aren’t losing 2000+ Americans a day from a pandemic of morgellons “sufferers”.
And GMOs, yeah, they aren’t an issue. But who is it hurting other than poor Monsanto (the same one who has products that have been linked to increased risk of cancer, and the same one who sued farmers for using seed from a harvest that grew from their plant on the grounds of patent violation). Anti GMO has created a side food production industry.
And if you want to make the argument that believing in one conspiracy theory leads to more, fine, but that brings us back to Rogan who perpetuates this stuff weekly, by “just asking questions”.
It’s not apples to apples, it’s all fruit. But boiling it down, only ones disinformation is helping to contribute to people to make a dis-informed choice that could very well lead to their or someone else’s death.
Further, Spotify is putting up disclaimer and Rogan is apologizing. I'd say the strategy is working so far. If a couple big dogs like Sir Paul or Bruce follow suit, this is going to be painful and will require a re-calibration by Spotify.
But she isn’t actively selling it to listeners daily. On top of that, we aren’t losing 2000+ Americans a day from a pandemic of morgellons “sufferers”.
And GMOs, yeah, they aren’t an issue. But who is it hurting other than poor Monsanto (the same one who has products that have been linked to increased risk of cancer, and the same one who sued farmers for using seed from a harvest that grew from their plant on the grounds of patent violation). Anti GMO has created a side food production industry.
And if you want to make the argument that believing in one conspiracy theory leads to more, fine, but that brings us back to Rogan who perpetuates this stuff weekly, by “just asking questions”.
It’s not apples to apples, it’s all fruit. But boiling it down, only ones disinformation is helping to contribute to people to make a dis-informed choice that could very well lead to their or someone else’s death.
This is exactly the point, if you contribute to disinformation, you don't just get a pass because now you are against a certain type of disinfo. Believe me there are people out there that are anti vax because they followed the chemtrails morgellons conspiracy wormhole through Joni Mitchell, sure she isn't peddling that crap daily like rogan, but she has been consistently talking about anti science shit for over a decade that created an environment that fosters distrust in science. This isn't a purity standard its just calling out hypocrisy.
Hell I even believe like neil that GMO's are bad, even though there is no science supporting the claim that GMO foods are inherently bad for you. Which makes me a spreader of disinformation for following my gut and ignoring the experts.
This quote from neil sounds pretty familiar in these circumstances ""I'm just a rocker who believes that people should know what they're eating,"
In regards to suing a farmer who stole Monsanto's product, so now a company is bad when someone steals their intellectual property and tries to profit off of it?
And yes pesticides are bad whether they are made by monsanto or whomever, but that doesn't make GMO food bad or set the stage for labelling food as GMOs.
As for who is hurting other than monsanto due to people following anti science GMO conspiracies, well anyone who got hooked on the GMOs are bad train and continued doing their own research on what other things they are being lied to about that are bad for their health etc.
Rogan is like lighting a box of matches on fire with his bs and Neil and Joni are like candles sure, but their fuel is BS just the same.
Further, Spotify is putting up disclaimer and Rogan is apologizing. I'd say the strategy is working so far. If a couple big dogs like Sir Paul or Bruce follow suit, this is going to be painful and will require a re-calibration by Spotify.
Further, Spotify is putting up disclaimer and Rogan is apologizing. I'd say the strategy is working so far. If a couple big dogs like Sir Paul or Bruce follow suit, this is going to be painful and will require a re-calibration by Spotify.
I put up a chart in another thread that shows spotify's value trending w all the other markets that are in a downturn.
I presume it showed SPOT down more than others. Here it is compared to NFLX, which is a pretty good comp. You can see up till the 27th, they tracked perfectly. Both rebounding today. SPOT is the lighter blue (lower line)
Some fascinating discussion and points being made here. I'll keep my thoughts to myself, but I'm left wondering if it is time to buy Spotify stock or short it.
Some fascinating discussion and points being made here. I'll keep my thoughts to myself, but I'm left wondering if it is time to buy Spotify stock or short it.
Or stay the fuck away because who knows what will happen...
Comments
If they’re completely free of regulation with these relatively minor examples, I’m just concerned about where it ends.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
You still don't seem to understand censorship and I'm done trying to explain it.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Awww.... I will try to be more my better self and less dad.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Apples and oranges. I see no point in bringing this into the picture. It's nit picking and distracting. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just say, why?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Got it! (Boy, am I dense sometimes.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"For years, a small but vocal patient community has claimed that the medical establishment is ignoring its debilitating, horrifying-sounding disease. Morgellons, according to its sufferers, is characterized by tiny parasites living under the skin, which produce fiber-like substances that spring from lesions. While most doctors dismissed the disease as an outbreak of delusional parasitosis, Morgellons sufferers have insisted that it was insulting to be told that “it’s all in your head.” Many felt vindicated when the CDC decided to undertake a study of the ailment. Even when a 2011 Mayo Clinic study suggested that the disease is psychosomatic, the Morgellons community clung to hope that the CDC would vindicate them.
But now the CDC’s report is out, and Morgellons activists are horrified: The study, carried out in Northern California, found no environmental or infectious cause, nor evidence of real parasites. The fibers, which many Morgellons patients have insisted were of composed of a substance that was unidentifiable by any lab, were mostly just pieces of fabric and skin fragments from repeated scratching. (You can read the full study on the Public Library of Science.) In conclusion, the CDC writes on its “Unexplained Dermopathy” page,
For many who believe that Morgellons has ruined their lives, this is a bitter pill, and they don’t want to swallow it. They want reassurance that this is real. Joni Mitchell, who says she suffers from Morgellons, told the Los Angeles Times in 2010, “In America, the Morgellons is always diagnosed as ‘delusion of parasites,’ and they send you to a psychiatrist. I’m actually trying to get out of the music business to battle for Morgellons sufferers to receive the credibility that’s owed to them.” Another sufferer told the San Francisco Chronicle yesterday, “We just want to be acknowledged. This is not a delusion.”
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/01/morgellons-disease-the-cdc-study-that-debunks-the-skin-ailment.html
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Further, Spotify is putting up disclaimer and Rogan is apologizing. I'd say the strategy is working so far. If a couple big dogs like Sir Paul or Bruce follow suit, this is going to be painful and will require a re-calibration by Spotify.
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-rogan-apologizes-spotify-covid-misinformation-neil-young-joni-mitchell-2022-1
Hell I even believe like neil that GMO's are bad, even though there is no science supporting the claim that GMO foods are inherently bad for you. Which makes me a spreader of disinformation for following my gut and ignoring the experts.
This quote from neil sounds pretty familiar in these circumstances ""I'm just a rocker who believes that people should know what they're eating,"
In regards to suing a farmer who stole Monsanto's product, so now a company is bad when someone steals their intellectual property and tries to profit off of it?
And yes pesticides are bad whether they are made by monsanto or whomever, but that doesn't make GMO food bad or set the stage for labelling food as GMOs.
As for who is hurting other than monsanto due to people following anti science GMO conspiracies, well anyone who got hooked on the GMOs are bad train and continued doing their own research on what other things they are being lied to about that are bad for their health etc.
Rogan is like lighting a box of matches on fire with his bs and Neil and Joni are like candles sure, but their fuel is BS just the same.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
well, not with the GMOs are bad thing. I maybe they are, but I’ll listen to scientists.
I wonder if Daniel Ek kan sell his Spotify shares right now...