Everything has to be a fight or a statement these days. In a few years will we be at the point where Neil isn't going to speak or write as long as someone else in the world he disagrees with is speaking and writing? Neil is a whiner. He needs to realize that we live in a world where people have different opinions and learn to coexist. Both sides waste so much energy trying to build division. I'm guessing that Rogan's followers will either stay the same or grow as a result of Neil's whining.
Everything has to be a fight or a statement these days. In a few years will we be at the point where Neil isn't going to speak or write as long as someone else in the world he disagrees with is speaking and writing? Neil is a whiner. He needs to realize that we live in a world where people have different opinions and learn to coexist. Both sides waste so much energy trying to build division. I'm guessing that Rogan's followers will either stay the same or grow as a result of Neil's whining.
Leaving because the artists are not being compensated fairly is cool.
Leaving because they want to censor someone else's content is not cool.
Do you think full on nazi-content should be allowed on streaming services?
Would you hang around at a party with your red cup, where the host decided to invite nazis? Even paying for their cab fair.
Yes or no?
Disagreeing about vaccines is not even remotely in the same ballpark to nazi-content. Not even close.
Spotify isn't a party. This is a platform where people can go to listen to music, podcasts, etc.... It is a communication platform. People have the choice of what music and podcasts they want to listen to. What if Rogan was telling people a year ago that the J&J vaccine wasn't safe for the eldery? People like you would want him banned from Spotify, even though a year later the CDC discouraged the elderly from using the J&J vaccine.
Leaving because the artists are not being compensated fairly is cool.
Leaving because they want to censor someone else's content is not cool.
Do you think full on nazi-content should be allowed on streaming services?
Would you hang around at a party with your red cup, where the host decided to invite nazis? Even paying for their cab fair.
Yes or no?
Cropduster-80 said:
Why?
generally I choose to associate myself with people I like. If I don’t want to be around them I leave. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call it censorship when his show goes on and Neil walks away. Both are still in existence just not on the same platform
I don't listen to Rogan, so I don't know if you are saying he spouts that type of content, but if you are just using it as an example, then yes, I think people should be able to say whatever they want.
Would I stay and hang out with them at a party? No.
But I also wouldn't demand that their landlord evict them for what they say at the party.
Rogan, for example, can say that eating nothing but candy is a great weight loss diet. I can form my own opinion and not believe it. But others may follow his advice. That's up to them to make that choice.
I thought NY's stance was either get rid of Rogan, or get rid of me. He could have said he didn't want to be associated with content provided on Spotify, but instead made an ultimatum for censorship.
Neil said in his statement, he believes in free speech and people can say what they want, he just doesn't want to be associated with it.
I can't find his original statement that made it 'me v him', but maybe that was the media's characterization of the statement.
All I can find is him saying that Spotify has programs that promote disinformation and he wishes they would prevent that. But he probably realized he knew they couldn't and just wanted to peace out (especially if they didn't go Hi-fi in 2021 like they said they would, and we know Neil loves his HQ audio) and thats what he did.
You would think most Rogan fans would just say "good, later" and carry on with their lives, but instead they act like the real indignation is that people don't agree with him.
I can't find his original statement that made it 'me v him', but maybe that was the media's characterization of the statement.
I believe he said. "They can have Rogan or Neil. Not both" in the end of the first "letter" to his NYA fans. He had already asked to leave at that point. People calling it an "ultimatum" or "demands to censor" or whatever should reconsider how they read things. Or where they get their information from.
Call me a pessimist, but I guess most of them are lost causes anyways.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,304
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Also, I really hope the people willing to die on Joe Rogan's free speech hill are willing to put it on the line when books are being banned from schools, and theres a legitimate push to censor teachers and educators from teaching aspects of American history that portray the brutal realities of slavery, its history and its fall out are being banned from being taught. (hell, not even that, just anything that could make white people uncomfortable with things that occurred because of white history).
Spotify isn't a party. This is a platform where people can go to listen to music, podcasts, etc.... It is a communication platform. People have the choice of what music and podcasts they want to listen to. What if Rogan was telling people a year ago that the J&J vaccine wasn't safe for the eldery? People like you would want him banned from Spotify, even though a year later the CDC discouraged the elderly from using the J&J vaccine.
I have not said that Spotify is a party. I am asking if you would keep hanging out at a party if the host of said party paid for neonazis to come and hang out and doing their neonazi-thing. Or would you leave?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Leaving because the artists are not being compensated fairly is cool.
Leaving because they want to censor someone else's content is not cool.
Do you think full on nazi-content should be allowed on streaming services?
Would you hang around at a party with your red cup, where the host decided to invite nazis? Even paying for their cab fair.
Yes or no?
Disagreeing about vaccines is not even remotely in the same ballpark to nazi-content. Not even close.
Spotify isn't a party. This is a platform where people can go to listen to music, podcasts, etc.... It is a communication platform. People have the choice of what music and podcasts they want to listen to. What if Rogan was telling people a year ago that the J&J vaccine wasn't safe for the eldery? People like you would want him banned from Spotify, even though a year later the CDC discouraged the elderly from using the J&J vaccine.
It isn’t really about disagreeing on vaccines or mandates. This would’ve happened awhile ago if it was that.
If you wanted to equate it with Nazis you could easily point out the use of lies and half truths to a willing audience.
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
They are using their clout and notoriety to pressure a company to get rid of Rogan. They know that Spotify is going to stick with Rogan but who knows, maybe enough will follow their lead and put Spotify in a tough spot. They don't want Rogan to have a voice and are taking action to hopefully lead to that outcome one day (not now obviously).
It may not be about free speech but it certainly is about limiting speech.
Spotify isn't a party. This is a platform where people can go to listen to music, podcasts, etc.... It is a communication platform. People have the choice of what music and podcasts they want to listen to. What if Rogan was telling people a year ago that the J&J vaccine wasn't safe for the eldery? People like you would want him banned from Spotify, even though a year later the CDC discouraged the elderly from using the J&J vaccine.
I have not said that Spotify is a party. I am asking if you would keep hanging out at a party if the host of said party paid for neonazis to come and hang out and doing their neonazi-thing. Or would you leave?
I would leave a party if neo-nazis were there. Hate speech has no place.
I probably wouldn't leave if there were people there debating vaccines and talking about false health data. I'd probably just shake my head and talk with others at the party, because I wouldn't want to only have the option to go to a party where you are allowed to only think one way.
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
They are using their clout and notoriety to pressure a company to get rid of Rogan. They know that Spotify is going to stick with Rogan but who knows, maybe enough will follow their lead and put Spotify in a tough spot. They don't want Rogan to have a voice and are taking action to hopefully lead to that outcome one day (not now obviously).
It may not be about free speech but it certainly is about limiting speech.
Seems obvious doesn’t it?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,304
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
They are using their clout and notoriety to pressure a company to get rid of Rogan. They know that Spotify is going to stick with Rogan but who knows, maybe enough will follow their lead and put Spotify in a tough spot. They don't want Rogan to have a voice and are taking action to hopefully lead to that outcome one day (not now obviously).
It may not be about free speech but it certainly is about limiting speech.
Sorry, I disagree. Neither Neil nor Joni told anyone what to say or not say. They're saying Rogan is spreading false information (and in turn, gullible people are buying his bullshit) about a deadly virus and they don't want to share the same digital platform with him. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see how that is so hard to understand. No one is limiting free speech and proclaiming they are is a false notion.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I don’t see the issue asking a platform to regulate their content when it comes to hard data. Most of his interviews, including the few that are really causing a stir lately could be edited to remove the blatant bad info and remain almost completely intact. Having some sort of standards isn’t beyond the pale.
Also, I really hope the people willing to die on Joe Rogan's free speech hill are willing to put it on the line when books are being banned from schools, and theres a legitimate push to censor teachers and educators from teaching aspects of American history that portray the brutal realities of slavery, its history and its fall out are being banned from being taught. (hell, not even that, just anything that could make white people uncomfortable with things that occurred because of white history).
because that is the real censorship in 2022.
Nobody is dying on Joe Rogan's free speech hill. I don't listen to his podcasts and don't think anything of him because I don't care. Unless he is talking about hate speech or inciting violence or harm on others, I think that Neil Young and Rogan can be on Spotify and the world win spin just fine. People are adults and can consume the information they want. That is what happens in a free society. Yes, Neil is free not to have his songs on Spotify but I just think he is being childish.
We should teach history as it was. For sure. Agree.
Also, I really hope the people willing to die on Joe Rogan's free speech hill are willing to put it on the line when books are being banned from schools, and theres a legitimate push to censor teachers and educators from teaching aspects of American history that portray the brutal realities of slavery, its history and its fall out are being banned from being taught. (hell, not even that, just anything that could make white people uncomfortable with things that occurred because of white history).
because that is the real censorship in 2022.
Nobody is dying on Joe Rogan's free speech hill. I don't listen to his podcasts and don't think anything of him because I don't care. Unless he is talking about hate speech or inciting violence or harm on others, I think that Neil Young and Rogan can be on Spotify and the world win spin just fine. People are adults and can consume the information they want. That is what happens in a free society. Yes, Neil is free not to have his songs on Spotify but I just think he is being childish.
We should teach history as it was. For sure. Agree.
Isn’t some of this inciting harm on others? I can see that these Rogan episodes aren’t changing minds, but cementing deluded thoughts with cherry picked facts and falsehoods is practically just as damaging.
Also, I really hope the people willing to die on Joe Rogan's free speech hill are willing to put it on the line when books are being banned from schools, and theres a legitimate push to censor teachers and educators from teaching aspects of American history that portray the brutal realities of slavery, its history and its fall out are being banned from being taught. (hell, not even that, just anything that could make white people uncomfortable with things that occurred because of white history).
because that is the real censorship in 2022.
Nobody is dying on Joe Rogan's free speech hill. I don't listen to his podcasts and don't think anything of him because I don't care. Unless he is talking about hate speech or inciting violence or harm on others, I think that Neil Young and Rogan can be on Spotify and the world win spin just fine. People are adults and can consume the information they want. That is what happens in a free society. Yes, Neil is free not to have his songs on Spotify but I just think he is being childish.
We should teach history as it was. For sure. Agree.
Isn’t some of this inciting harm on others? I can see that these Rogan episodes aren’t changing minds, but cementing deluded thoughts with cherry picked facts and falsehoods is practically just as damaging.
Well, I've watched maybe one or two JRE YouTube interviews so I can't speak for every last item discussed on his show. If we are limiting it just to health and vaccine discussions, then it sucks but I'd rather people be able to listen to who they want even if it is to their detriment then to have only one source of information.
We are very quick to cede authority to the government and large multi-national corporations when it comes to information sharing. It is because we've had it so good in the West for a while and haven't experienced what it is like in some countries like China to have the freedom to only view information from one ideology. Misinformation sucks and we can thank the internet and social media for the platform to do it on a mass scale, but I don't know that I want the alternative.
It isn't an easy situation. I'm not saying I'm right, but this is where my head is now.
Rogan def influences his audience, recently a 20 something young man walked into my office and a co-worker asked him if he was boosted he said no when asked why he said he listened to Joe Rogan podcast that had some doctor stating the vaccine didn’t work so why get the booster..like someone else said if I drive up to a party I’ve been invited too and see Trump flags flying I’m not going into that party. It’s about choice I’m glad artist are using their choice to do what they feel is best for them and their music..
Amazing how some here don't understand that Young and Mitchell are not "censoring" anyone or against free speech. Saying that only reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding the issue. Kind of embarrassing, really.
If he just left himself, you'd have a point. In encouraging others to follow suit (see his words below) he is absolutely trying to censor Joe Rogan.
But he has that right! You should absolutely be able to petition a private company to take down something you find objectionable. Especially if you have some clout. The tricky thing is that you're sticking your neck out when you do it. Will people line up behind you or tell you you're a censorious ass? We'll see! I think he's being an ass, you don't. Marketplace of ideas.
He's not asking the government to step in so it's not a free speech issue in the first amendment sense. But let's be clear-eyed about the fact that he is trying to lobby Spotify into censoring Rogan to some degree. (Which again...totally within his rights, especially as an artist who has a lever.)
Comments
Leaving because they want to censor someone else's content is not cool.
Would you hang around at a party with your red cup, where the host decided to invite nazis? Even paying for their cab fair.
Yes or no?
Would you hang around at a party with your red cup, where the host decided to invite nazis? Even paying for their cab fair.
Yes or no?
generally I choose to associate myself with people I like. If I don’t want to be around them I leave. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call it censorship when his show goes on and Neil walks away. Both are still in existence just not on the same platform
Spotify isn't a party. This is a platform where people can go to listen to music, podcasts, etc.... It is a communication platform. People have the choice of what music and podcasts they want to listen to. What if Rogan was telling people a year ago that the J&J vaccine wasn't safe for the eldery? People like you would want him banned from Spotify, even though a year later the CDC discouraged the elderly from using the J&J vaccine.
Would I stay and hang out with them at a party? No.
But I also wouldn't demand that their landlord evict them for what they say at the party.
Rogan, for example, can say that eating nothing but candy is a great weight loss diet. I can form my own opinion and not believe it. But others may follow his advice. That's up to them to make that choice.
I thought NY's stance was either get rid of Rogan, or get rid of me. He could have said he didn't want to be associated with content provided on Spotify, but instead made an ultimatum for censorship.
I can't find his original statement that made it 'me v him', but maybe that was the media's characterization of the statement.
All I can find is him saying that Spotify has programs that promote disinformation and he wishes they would prevent that. But he probably realized he knew they couldn't and just wanted to peace out (especially if they didn't go Hi-fi in 2021 like they said they would, and we know Neil loves his HQ audio) and thats what he did.
You would think most Rogan fans would just say "good, later" and carry on with their lives, but instead they act like the real indignation is that people don't agree with him.
Call me a pessimist, but I guess most of them are lost causes anyways.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
because that is the real censorship in 2022.
If you wanted to equate it with Nazis you could easily point out the use of lies and half truths to a willing audience.
It may not be about free speech but it certainly is about limiting speech.
I probably wouldn't leave if there were people there debating vaccines and talking about false health data. I'd probably just shake my head and talk with others at the party, because I wouldn't want to only have the option to go to a party where you are allowed to only think one way.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We should teach history as it was. For sure. Agree.
We are very quick to cede authority to the government and large multi-national corporations when it comes to information sharing. It is because we've had it so good in the West for a while and haven't experienced what it is like in some countries like China to have the freedom to only view information from one ideology. Misinformation sucks and we can thank the internet and social media for the platform to do it on a mass scale, but I don't know that I want the alternative.
It isn't an easy situation. I'm not saying I'm right, but this is where my head is now.
But he has that right! You should absolutely be able to petition a private company to take down something you find objectionable. Especially if you have some clout. The tricky thing is that you're sticking your neck out when you do it. Will people line up behind you or tell you you're a censorious ass? We'll see! I think he's being an ass, you don't. Marketplace of ideas.
He's not asking the government to step in so it's not a free speech issue in the first amendment sense. But let's be clear-eyed about the fact that he is trying to lobby Spotify into censoring Rogan to some degree. (Which again...totally within his rights, especially as an artist who has a lever.)