Ukraine

Spiritual_Chaos

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

lastexitlondon said:

You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 

I don't know. 

I don't think anyone knows. 

I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.

well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 

Yes,

But we do not know if that is the choice. 

Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 

First, Strongman - be it Putin or the North Korea dude - threaten all the time. But whatever. I understand that the risk is to great to take the chance of trying to call a bluff. No matter how many children get bombed. That's why I mentioned that in "an alternate universe"...

Well well, rough seeing and hearing about what is happening as you say.

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

lastexitlondon said:

You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 

I don't know. 

I don't think anyone knows. 

I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.

well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 

Yes,

But we do not know if that is the choice. 

Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 

I never thought he could take and hold Ukraine.  I am surprised by how ineffective they are at just getting into cities. 

Spiritual_Chaos

I understand we are not talking the engineering excellence of the premium figher jet JAS 39 Gripen here, but this can not be cheap for Russia:

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1504202126154735623?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504202126154735623%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

Spiritual_Chaos

Sweden's former Prime Minister and Foreign minister:

https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1504222566973685763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504222566973685763%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

HughFreakingDillon

"natural self-purification". jesus

Halifax2TheMax

Pretty simple. Stark terms. Very moving. Damn.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbLcZtXjlUI/?utm_medium=copy_link

Jearlpam0925

As with Iran, when it comes to nukes, sanctions and agreements work (until some fuckhead comes along and pulls us out of said agreements).

It sucks but the reality is until Russia waves a white flag they can always play the game of hovering their finger over the nuke button.

Looking beyond the actual war, Putin has isolated that country for the indefinite future no? I don't think there's any other option at this point than saying, "you can play with the rest of us when you prove you're decommissioning and turning off what nukes you have." Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in this kind of holding pattern for forever.

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

Pretty simple. Stark terms. Very moving. Damn.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbLcZtXjlUI/?utm_medium=copy_link

he is going to be remembered very fondly throughout history for how he has handled this. 

brianlux

Jearlpam0925 said:

As with Iran, when it comes to nukes, sanctions and agreements work (until some fuckhead comes along and pulls us out of said agreements).

It sucks but the reality is until Russia waves a white flag they can always play the game of hovering their finger over the nuke button.

Looking beyond the actual war, Putin has isolated that country for the indefinite future no? I don't think there's any other option at this point than saying, "you can play with the rest of us when you prove you're decommissioning and turning off what nukes you have." Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in this kind of holding pattern for forever.

I agree with all of this except, of course, there will never be nuclear disarmament in Russia unless the the same hold for other countries, especially the U.S. (and probably China and maybe N. Korea).

On a slightly different subject:
I have mentioned here before that I live in a very conservative county in California.  Since the Russian invasion into Ukraine began, I have noticed a greatly reduced number of Trump flags and even a reduced number of F.U. Biden flags, etc.  Funny how the radical right suddenly finds itself a bit less outspoken, perhaps even ashamed or embarrassed by their naive, sheep-like following of the second most dangerous man on the planet (though a far second at that).  

Jearlpam0925

Right - this is what I was referring to before. This ultimately needs to be a game of one country de-nuking(?) after another. And as much as I don't think it will ultimately happen, it does have a greater chance of happening if we're talking about sanctions and being able to partake in the global finance game.

brianlux

Jearlpam0925 said:

Right - this is what I was referring to before. This ultimately needs to be a game of one country de-nuking(?) after another. And as much as I don't think it will ultimately happen, it does have a greater chance of happening if we're talking about sanctions and being able to partake in the global finance game.

There was a time when No-Nukes was a hopeful thing.  We need this again!

Spiritual_Chaos

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Right - this is what I was referring to before. This ultimately needs to be a game of one country de-nuking(?) after another. And as much as I don't think it will ultimately happen, it does have a greater chance of happening if we're talking about sanctions and being able to partake in the global finance game.

There was a time when No-Nukes was a hopeful thing.  We need this again!

https://open.spotify.com/album/00V1MSXp0ral9K394aItww?si=yRFwb2shT86BrBFHKTUwnQ

Halifax2TheMax

March 17, 2022

Since the invasion of Ukraine began, over 400 companies have announced their withdrawal from Russia—but some companies have continued to operate in Russia undeterred. 

Originally conceptualized as a simple "withdraw" vs. "remain" list, our new list of companies now consists of four categories: 

1) WITHDRAWAL - Clean Break: companies completely halting Russian engagements; 

2) SUSPENSION - Keeping Options Open for Return: companies temporarily curtailing operations while keeping return options open; 

3) SCALING BACK - Reducing Activities: companies scaling back some but not all operations, or delaying investments; 

4) DIGGING IN - Defying Demands for Exit: companies defying demands for exit/reduction of activities 

Download the list by clicking here. (make sure to "download" the file from Box as an excel document rather than "previewing" for best file quality) 

The list is updated continuously by Jeffrey Sonnenfeld and his research team at the Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute to reflect new announcements from companies in as close to real time as possible. 

Halifax2TheMax

^^^^^^^

But Zelensky made another ask on Wednesday morning, and it’s something all Americans can help with. We can stop buying the products of businesses that continue to fund Vladimir Putin’s war machine, even after its full horrors — indiscriminately targeting civilians, murdering children — are obvious to the world.

“All American companies must leave Russia. … Leave their market immediately, because it is flooded with our blood,” the young leader said, asking lawmakers “to make sure that the Russians do not receive a single penny that they use to destroy our people in Ukraine, the destruction of our country, the destruction of Europe. … Peace is more important than income.”

Most American companies get that. Some 400 U.S. and other multinational firms have pulled out of Russia, either permanently or temporarily, according to Yale’s Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who has kept the authoritative list of corporate actions in Russia. Oil companies (BP, Shell, ExxonMobil) and tech companies (Dell, IBM, Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter) led the way, and many others (McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola) eventually followed.

But, according to Sonnenfeld, there are, at the other extreme, 33 companies (as of Wednesday afternoon) that form a “hall of shame,” defying demands that they exit Russia or reduce their activities there.

“They are funding the Russian war machine, and they are undermining the whole idea of the sanctions," Sonnenfeld told me. “The whole idea is to freeze up civil society, to get people out on the streets and outraged. They’re undermining an effective resolution” and increasing the likelihood of continued bloodshed.

Those who want to stop Russia’s murderous attack against Ukraine should stop investing in or buying the products of these companies.

Koch Industries, whose owners gave to right-wing causes for years, is now financing Putin’s war. The people who make Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Quilted Northern toilet paper, Vanity Fair napkins and Georgia-Pacific lumber are abetting the spilling of Ukrainians’ blood.

Continues

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/16/boycott-companies-business-russia-putin-ukraine-war/

mickeyrat

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^

But Zelensky made another ask on Wednesday morning, and it’s something all Americans can help with. We can stop buying the products of businesses that continue to fund Vladimir Putin’s war machine, even after its full horrors — indiscriminately targeting civilians, murdering children — are obvious to the world.

“All American companies must leave Russia. … Leave their market immediately, because it is flooded with our blood,” the young leader said, asking lawmakers “to make sure that the Russians do not receive a single penny that they use to destroy our people in Ukraine, the destruction of our country, the destruction of Europe. … Peace is more important than income.”

Most American companies get that. Some 400 U.S. and other multinational firms have pulled out of Russia, either permanently or temporarily, according to Yale’s Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who has kept the authoritative list of corporate actions in Russia. Oil companies (BP, Shell, ExxonMobil) and tech companies (Dell, IBM, Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter) led the way, and many others (McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola) eventually followed.

But, according to Sonnenfeld, there are, at the other extreme, 33 companies (as of Wednesday afternoon) that form a “hall of shame,” defying demands that they exit Russia or reduce their activities there.

Koch is staying....

mickeyrat

mickeyrat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^

But Zelensky made another ask on Wednesday morning, and it’s something all Americans can help with. We can stop buying the products of businesses that continue to fund Vladimir Putin’s war machine, even after its full horrors — indiscriminately targeting civilians, murdering children — are obvious to the world.

“All American companies must leave Russia. … Leave their market immediately, because it is flooded with our blood,” the young leader said, asking lawmakers “to make sure that the Russians do not receive a single penny that they use to destroy our people in Ukraine, the destruction of our country, the destruction of Europe. … Peace is more important than income.”

Most American companies get that. Some 400 U.S. and other multinational firms have pulled out of Russia, either permanently or temporarily, according to Yale’s Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who has kept the authoritative list of corporate actions in Russia. Oil companies (BP, Shell, ExxonMobil) and tech companies (Dell, IBM, Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter) led the way, and many others (McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola) eventually followed.

But, according to Sonnenfeld, there are, at the other extreme, 33 companies (as of Wednesday afternoon) that form a “hall of shame,” defying demands that they exit Russia or reduce their activities there.

Koch is staying....

so avoid these companies products if you choose....

MayDay10

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

lastexitlondon said:

You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 

I don't know. 

I don't think anyone knows. 

I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.

well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 

Yes,

But we do not know if that is the choice. 

Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 

As much as it sucks, I think the current course is working, as unfortunate as it is for the people of Ukraine.  

Russia/Putin is on a rapid course of self-destruction and something is going to have to give.  This war is in its 4th week and they are suffering massive losses.  Morale seems low and it will crater once supplies and food become even more scarce.  As long as China doesnt swoop in and carry them (I see no reason they would want to), it is going to get very stuffy around Putin.  If China ever decides enough is enough, Putin/Russia is finished.

The Western/civilized world is nearly lock-step and unanimously fucking with Russia, inventing new ways every day.  The line on the weapons keeps getting edged further and further, but still should be well behind the line to risk a nuclear exchange.  It wouldn't shock me if he found some Polonium in his casserole any time.  I also wonder if those Russian troops at some point will just leave Ukraine and head directly to the Kremlin.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/14/putin-could-lose-ukraine-fukuyama-optimistic/

Jearlpam0925

MayDay10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

lastexitlondon said:

You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 

I don't know. 

I don't think anyone knows. 

I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.

well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 

Yes,

But we do not know if that is the choice. 

Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 

As much as it sucks, I think the current course is working, as unfortunate as it is for the people of Ukraine.  

Russia/Putin is on a rapid course of self-destruction and something is going to have to give.  This war is in its 4th week and they are suffering massive losses.  Morale seems low and it will crater once supplies and food become even more scarce.  As long as China doesnt swoop in and carry them (I see no reason they would want to), it is going to get very stuffy around Putin.  If China ever decides enough is enough, Putin/Russia is finished.

The Western/civilized world is nearly lock-step and unanimously fucking with Russia, inventing new ways every day.  The line on the weapons keeps getting edged further and further, but still should be well behind the line to risk a nuclear exchange.  It wouldn't shock me if he found some Polonium in his casserole any time.  I also wonder if those Russian troops at some point will just leave Ukraine and head directly to the Kremlin.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/14/putin-could-lose-ukraine-fukuyama-optimistic/

"Working" is surely relative and an empty term at this moment, but I agree. This is the best and most effective path all around.

Halifax2TheMax

This is who we’re dealing with. And who POOTWH, Fucker Carlson, Maggie 3 Names and Dopert support and align with. Nice.

As Russia’s isolation from the Western world deepens with its intensifying attacks on Ukraine, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov condemned President Biden’s description of President Vladimir Putin as a “war criminal,” saying it was “absolutely unacceptable, inadmissible and unforgivable.”

In the past, Biden has called Putin a “KGB thug” and agreed in an interview last year that he was “a killer.” His description of Putin as a war criminal Wednesday followed reports of Russian forces shooting civilians, indiscriminately shelling residential areas, targeting hospitals and bombing the Mariupol Drama Theater. Local authorities said hundreds of civilians were sheltered in a basement of the theater and that word “children” was emblazoned in Russian in large white letters on the ground outside.

Peskov brushed off Biden’s comments. “Our president is a wise, farsighted and cultured international figure,” he said, adding that Biden had no right to speak as head of a state “that has been bombing people all over the world for years.”

He noted that the United States had dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, when he claimed that Japan was “already defeated and the bombing made no sense.” In fact, Japan refused to surrender before the bombings, which were carried out shortly after the U.S. War Department estimated that an invasion to end the war would cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of American troops and millions of Japanese.

Peskov said many Russians opposed to the war in Ukraine were “traitors” who would “disappear from our life.”

“Some quit their positions, others step down from active service, and some leave the country and move abroad” he said. “This is how the cleansing goes. Some break the law and will be punished consistent with court orders.”

Peskov also appeared to downplay reports of substantial progress in talks between Ukraine and Russia to end the war, saying that the Russian side “is making enormous efforts and demonstrates a much greater willingness than our Ukrainian counterparts to negotiate in an emergency mode.”

Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko said that if Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky does not agree to Russia’s “absolutely acceptable” terms, “he will have to sign an act of capitulation later.”

Dmitry Medvedev, former Russian president and now deputy head of the Russian Security Council, blamed the Ukraine war and the crisis between Russian and the Western world on “Russophobia.” He called Western actions toward Moscow in recent years “disgusting, criminal and amoral” and said Russia was fighting for a new world order that would suit Moscow better.

“The United States and its satellites have been laying ground for hatred for Russia over the entire 30-year existence of the new Russian state,” he said in a Telegram post. “It is just that it has been masked by hypocritical, white-toothed smiles of politicians and diplomats who said one thing and did something completely different. In short, they were lying through their teeth to accommodate their own interests.”

Lizard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e1BndTE6Lg