Ed and God

Collin

KosmicJelli wrote:

OMG I cant stand seeing this thread for another day on the board -for people arguing over God is absolutely fucking ridiculous!!!!!! There is nothing more destructive than people trying to argue the fact God is existent or non existent! Do yah all need me to quote some lyrics from John Lennon?

You don't have to read this thread.

This thread isn't about the existence of god either. It has been about interpreting pearl jam's lyrics and about evolution v. ID.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

i dont want anyone to go my way. and i dont care that you(thats the collective you, of course) agree with my idea of freedom or not. all that matters to me is my opinion, if everyone elses opinion differs from mine to such an extent that compromise seems like a betrayal to me, then i wont do it. i will simply dismiss your opinion. why would i do this? cause i can and cause thats the beauty of freedom. its cool for you to be different just as it is for me. but dont make the mistake of thinking that i feel obliged to respect an opinion so diametrical opposed to my own that it in it making zero sense to me it has become inconsequential to my own being. i dont.

I agree.

KosmicJelli

Collin wrote:

You don't have to read this thread.

This thread isn't about the existence of god either. It has been about interpreting pearl jam's lyrics and about evolution v. ID.

It is still a argument about God...

Collin

KosmicJelli wrote:

It is still a argument about God...

What Tim and I have been discussing is whether or not ID is science, some of the principles of ID as well as evolution. It has very little to do with whether god exists or not. We certainly didn't discuss that aspect and if we did it was only vaguely.

The interpretation of Ed's lyrics also have very little to do with whether god exists or not. To some people god exists and they can interpret certain things in a religious context. Other people don't believe in god and don't see that interpretation and disagree with it.

It is perfectly possible to discuss these things without discussing the existence of god.

If you think all philosophical debates about god are pointless and useless, so be it. I already stated that the god question is not a big one, in fact, a very small one to me. But I'm interested in hearing the other side.

The debate about ID is, imo, certainly not pointless. I think ID is a religious political movement that tries to force their unsubstantiated and imcomplete theories into science class, not through the conventional way, but through political pressure and by gaining support from the people by deliberately delivering false information about what the theory of evolution is and also about ID's position and the "evidence" ID has.

Either way, pointless or not, I'm just saying it's rather weird that you continue to read a thread and post in it even though you can't stand reading it.

KosmicJelli

Collin wrote:

What Tim and I have been discussing is whether or not ID is science, some of the principles of ID as well as evolution. It has very little to do with whether god exists or not. We certainly didn't discuss that aspect and if we did it was only vaguely.

The interpretation of Ed's lyrics also have very little to do with whether god exists or not. To some people god exists and they can interpret certain things in a religious context. Other people don't believe in god and don't see that interpretation and disagree with it.

It is perfectly possible to discuss these things without discussing the existence of god.

If you think all philosophical debates about god are pointless and useless, so be it. I already stated that the god question is not a big one, in fact, a very small one to me. But I'm interested in hearing the other side.

The debate about ID is, imo, certainly not pointless. I think ID is a religious political movement that tries to force their unsubstantiated and imcomplete theories into science class, not through the conventional way, but through political pressure and by gaining support from the people by deliberately delivering false information about what the theory of evolution is and also about ID's position and the "evidence" ID has.

Either way, pointless or not, I'm just saying it's rather weird that you continue to read a thread and post in it even though you can't stand reading it.

NO I CANT STAND SEEING IT ON THE MAIN BOARD FOR DAYS!!!!! Hey isnt my opinion about the whole thread just as valid as your?

KosmicJelli

Honestly... has this thread come to any conclusion? Has it opened the minds of those whom you are replying to? What it seems like to me that it is not an intellectual enlightening argument but a pompous know-it- all "Grammarpalooza!"

Kat

The Words and Music...Communication forum is about discussing Pearl Jam's lyrics only. A religion and science discussion would be appropriate for A Moving Train. Please go ahead and start a thread there about that topic...it derails this one. Thanks!

Admin

DangDang

Wasn't this the most intelligent thread ever?

Wilds

DangDang wrote:

Wasn't this the most intelligent thread ever?

Buried for a year and two weeks and this is all you've got?

DangDang

Wilds wrote:

DangDang wrote:

Wasn't this the most intelligent thread ever?

Buried for a year and two weeks and this is all you've got?

Actually, I could have commented "Ed IS God" which would have unearthed it, and then buried it again, all in one shovel.

Wilds

DangDang wrote:

Wilds wrote:

DangDang wrote:

Wasn't this the most intelligent thread ever?

Buried for a year and two weeks and this is all you've got?

Actually, I could have commented "Ed IS God" which would have unearthed it, and then buried it again, all in one shovel.

37pheet

god bless amirroraca

Wilds

37pheet wrote:

(right off the bat fuck my spellin) god is god is god is god!!! who should really care xcept 4 those who fear him/her. it is all a perception. if you beeleave great if you dont great, just leeave me alone about that. I dont like peps pressin there shit on other peps.


TO EACH HIS OWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



by the way i am god you can contact me..... Removed.

god bless amirroraca

Dude, would advise you to remove that link, or you might get slapped by the mods.

CorduroyGal

BinFrog wrote:

Enjoy the music. Ed is not and has never been religious...you are reading thoughts and motives into his lyrics that are not there. It doesn't matter. Go on a musical journey with the band, and go on your own spiritual journey however you see fit. You don't need some sort of religious affirmation from a rock band.

I agree- I feel that some things in life parallel my life with each album and each song/lyrics, and that is one of the best things that could ever happen in my life- I think it's wonderful how "go on a musical journey" was identified- it's the complete phrase I've been looking for ever since Ten came out- each album has had its own meaning to me, incl Into the Wild, and all of us have our own journeys with PJ, Ed, each musician, etc....

lukin1277

if your a christian, which i am why would you worry about what anyone else believes or is searching for? pj and other bands, actors, or politians have their own thoughts. pj is a group of 5 guys playing rock & roll expressing their veiw of the world. i have been a fan since the start. they have covered every aspect of life, thats why we are all on here. they have something in their music we can all relate to! some stuff i agree with some i dont but they rock the party, so lets jam! be open, its nothing as it seems! its a band not your spiritual leader!!!!!!!!!!

lukin1277

when you were rockin out in '92 did not bother you then. but know you have changed and you want the band to change with you? and if they have not they are to blame, does not make any sense

schisms

he told you in sleight of hand.. "ill see you on the otherside"..so chillax till then.

theoceansmademe

timsinclair wrote:

In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?

Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus?

This isn't what I take from Yield at ALL.

The song faithful to me questions god and faith itself.

"The man upstairs is used to all of this noise
I'm through with screaming
And echoes nobody hears, it goes, it goes, it goes"

I see this as giving up on praying, the echoes go because no one is there to answer.

"M.Y.T.H. is
Belief in the game controls that keeps us in a box of fear"

Religion is used to control people, the notion hell is the fear that many people try to avoid and thus bring them to have faith. I mean come on you going to spend eternity burning if you don't accept Jesus.

GTF is about a man have a bad time and using pot to escape. Nothing to do with Jesus.

DTE
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
It's evolution, baby

I'm a thief, I'm a liar
There's my church, I sing in the choir:
(hallelujah, hallelujah)

Um, I don't think Eddie can make it any clearer is distaste for religion and God.

I could go on with other examples from his songs, but I believe I am in the majority that Ed doesn't like religion and questions the existence of a God.

I am sorry you feel gutted but it's music take from it what you want. I don't trust religion and there most likely isn't a God, so Ed's lyrics offer me my affirmation.

In the MSG DVD or CD after singing Faithful Ed states how he is for Hope but not something bigger like a God. Those aren't the exact words but the general idea.

theoceansmademe

schisms wrote:

he told you in sleight of hand.. "ill see you on the otherside"..so chillax till then.

Any new realizations... would have to wait...
Til he had more time,... more time...
Time to dream,... to himself... he waves goodbye,
To himself... I'll see you on the other side...

I view this song about a guy who is bored with life and wishing to escape, have time for himself.

I think the other side is his dream world, when he's not awake and dealing with the boredom of his every day life.

I don't see the other side as an after life, it's the dream state where the guy in this song can have anything he wants.

Like Stone stated, this is the genius of Ed, he can take many different roles in his songs.

BhagavadGita

timsinclair wrote:

In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?

I think this person is just expressing his own experience with the band. It's ok to feel this way. If he feels like he lost a friend, that's the way it is.

Let it be.